[PF] Battle Cleric build advice plz

[ranger557]

Hi all, in a week or so my group will be continuing our pathfinder campaign. we are level 8 right now and until then I was playing the main melee character as a barbarian. However, even with the high BAB, rage powers, and damage he did. I feel I want a change of pace and a touch spell power :smallbiggrin:. So i was thinking of going a battle cleric. I know in 3.5 they were beasts, but can they still be in PF? Right now our group consist of elf wizard, elf paladin(archer), human sorcerer, halfling bard, and dwarf cleric. So I think my concept of a battle cleric would fit well, if I focus on the melee part, but also I would like to keep my wisdom up to get the 9th level spells.

So here is what I thought of, Human Cleric of Gorum. Domains I thought would be good would be War(tactics) and Glory(Heroism). What do you guys think of Ftr1/Clr7? Would that help me more or is full cleric class is better? Well here is what I thought as a build for now. 25 point buy and only pathfinder books allowed.

Human cleric of Gorum level 8
Domains: War(tactics) and Glory(heroism)

Str: 18 (racial +2, +1 level bump)
Dex: 12
Con: 15
Int: 12
Wis: 16 (+1 level bump)
Cha: 10

Feats:
H. Toughness
1. Heavy Armor Prof.
3. Improved Initiative
5. Power Attack
7. Furious Focus
9. Extend Spell
11. Combat Casting
13. (open)
15. (open)
17. (open)
19. (open)

That is what I came up with. Honestly I'm not sure what other feats to focus on after level 11, More combat or metamagic feats? Also for level stat bumps, I was thinking going Con for level 12 and then Wis for the rest of them. If you have an magic item that boosts your wisdom, that affects what spell level you can cast, correct? Thanks for any advice, I want to be a melee combat beast :smallcool:.

[ranger557]

Also to clarify I want to go the cleric route because it gives more flexbility in spells and I like how the domains give you interesting powers. I understand the oracle is maybe better because of the different features it obtains, but the feel of not having that much flexbility kind of hurts, right? Also how about the holy warrior variant of the cleric from the pathfinder campaign setting is that good or viable? Also looking at my stats maybe I should dump Cha to 8 and Int to 10, so I can bump Con to 16?

[grarrrg]

So here is what I thought of, Human Cleric of Gorum. Domains I thought would be good would be War(tactics) and Glory(Heroism).
Gorum does not have access to Heroism-Subdomain

I'd say go Strength>Ferocity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/strength-domain/ferocity) (Strength gives Enlarge Person, and Ferocity is more handy than default Strength).
I also like Destruction (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/destruction-domain) Domain, and Destruction>Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/destruction-domain/rage) Subdomain.


What do you guys think of Ftr1/Clr7? Would that help me more or is full cleric class is better? Well here is what I thought as a build for now. 25 point buy and only pathfinder books allowed.

Straight Cleric is fine for a 'fighter' approach.
Consider skipping Fighter and going Holy Vindicator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/holy-vindicator) instead.
Full Bab, 3/4 Casting, Martial Weapon prof., Heavy Armor Prof., Stacks for Channel Energy.
You can qualify at Cleric 7.
It'd be up to you if you wanted to take another level of Cleric (level 8 Domain powers), or the 1st level of Vindicator (Weapon/Armor prof) for your 8th level. Either way you should be at Cleric 8/Vindicator 1+ at level 9.

[Karoht]

Benefit of Oracle-Works off Charisma. Why is that important?
Take a two level dip in Paladin and get your Charisma bonus to saves. It synergizes remarkably well with the Pathfinder Oracle.

But, if you want the full casting option, Cleric all the way. If you want to be a melee who ALSO at any moment can perform some of the best spellcasting in the game, sure. If you want to cast spells perhaps a bit less and hit things a bit more, Oracle will serve you well.

Also, the Cleric will have Channels no matter what, the Oracle will not unless you take the Life Mystery.

I second the recommendation for Holy Vindicator.

[ranger557]

Gorum does not have access to Heroism-Subdomain

I'd say go Strength>Ferocity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/strength-domain/ferocity) (Strength gives Enlarge Person, and Ferocity is more handy than default Strength).
I also like Destruction (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/destruction-domain) Domain, and Destruction>Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/destruction-domain/rage) Subdomain.



Straight Cleric is fine for a 'fighter' approach.
Consider skipping Fighter and going Holy Vindicator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/holy-vindicator) instead.
Full Bab, 3/4 Casting, Martial Weapon prof., Heavy Armor Prof., Stacks for Channel Energy.
You can qualify at Cleric 7.
It'd be up to you if you wanted to take another level of Cleric (level 8 Domain powers), or the 1st level of Vindicator (Weapon/Armor prof) for your 8th level. Either way you should be at Cleric 8/Vindicator 1+ at level 9.

I did not notice that, thanks. I guess I would go normal glory and war(tactics). We already have a wizard that prepares enlarge person, so I think i won't really need strength expect for maybe stoneskin. Also HV looks tempting, but I would like to keep up my spells as fast as I can and kick butt :smallbiggrin:. But the +1 to hit and +1 hp helps but not a huge bargain and plus the vindicator focus on having channels, my character does not at all. Therefore, wouldn't really mix well. Thanks though because that would work well for a pally.



Benefit of Oracle-Works off Charisma. Why is that important?
Take a two level dip in Paladin and get your Charisma bonus to saves. It synergizes remarkably well with the Pathfinder Oracle.

But, if you want the full casting option, Cleric all the way. If you want to be a melee who ALSO at any moment can perform some of the best spellcasting in the game, sure. If you want to cast spells perhaps a bit less and hit things a bit more, Oracle will serve you well.

Also, the Cleric will have Channels no matter what, the Oracle will not unless you take the Life Mystery.

I second the recommendation for Holy Vindicator.

Yeah oracle does have benefits in getting some nice features for battle and that combining with two levels for pally would be nice. However, I don't think i could keep up the lawful good aspect that long =/. The character is cynical and is a wandering warrior, so he fights for good but always questions the cost for it lol.

Also I think a warrior cleric looks more badass than a oracle warrior :smalltongue:. But its just my preference because I never really got to play a warrior cleric in 3.5, so I'm trying it out and I like how the spells and domains make him awesome :smallbiggrin:.

I was rethinking my stats and I would go more Str, just to put the points in 4 & 8 and then the rest in Wis. So my stats would be this now, and of course I would get a headband for my wisdom and Con.

Str: 20 (+2 racial, +2 level bump)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 14(12,16,20 bumps will go here)
Cha: 10

[grarrrg]

I still don't see how Glory Domain is all that useful to you. The 2 Domain powers are "meh", and most of the Bonus spells are already on the Cleric list anyway.
I still say Strength is the better option.


Also HV looks tempting, but I would like to keep up my spells as fast as I can and kick butt :smallbiggrin:. But the +1 to hit and +1 hp helps but not a huge bargain and plus the vindicator focus on having channels, my character does not at all. Therefore, wouldn't really mix well. Thanks though because that would work well for a pally.

Actually, Paladin>Holy Vindicator is a BAD idea, you gain very little and lose quite a bit.

The main reason I brought up Vindicator is that you were considering a Fighter 1 dip anyway, and except for the lost feat, Vindicator is strictly better.
If you're concerned about lost spell levels, then don't take more than 4 levels of Vindicator, you'll only lose 1 caster level, but you'll have 4 levels in a Full Bab class (so you could hit 16 Bab at/by level 20).

Also, Clerics don't really gain any abilities as they level anyway, all you really get is (maybe) slightly better Domain powers, and better Channel dice. You really don't have much of anything to lose by going Holy Vindicator for a few levels.


1st level is Vindicator's Shield, which lets you convert Channel uses into AC bonuses.
2nd is Stigmata, you take minor Bleed damage in exchange for a bonus to to-hit/damage/AC/Saving Throws, AND you become Immune to any other Bleed damage.
3rd level is Faith Healing, any Cure spell you cast heals you as if it were Empowered.
4th is DOOMY DOOM!...err...Divine Wrath. If you get hit by or confirm a Critical hit, you can cast Doom as an Immediate action.

[ranger557]

I still don't see how Glory Domain is all that useful to you. The 2 Domain powers are "meh", and most of the Bonus spells are already on the Cleric list anyway.
I still say Strength is the better option.



Actually, Paladin>Holy Vindicator is a BAD idea, you gain very little and lose quite a bit.

The main reason I brought up Vindicator is that you were considering a Fighter 1 dip anyway, and except for the lost feat, Vindicator is strictly better.
If you're concerned about lost spell levels, then don't take more than 4 levels of Vindicator, you'll only lose 1 caster level, but you'll have 4 levels in a Full Bab class (so you could hit 16 Bab at/by level 20).

Also, Clerics don't really gain any abilities as they level anyway, all you really get is (maybe) slightly better Domain powers, and better Channel dice. You really don't have much of anything to lose by going Holy Vindicator for a few levels.


1st level is Vindicator's Shield, which lets you convert Channel uses into AC bonuses.
2nd is Stigmata, you take minor Bleed damage in exchange for a bonus to to-hit/damage/AC/Saving Throws, AND you become Immune to any other Bleed damage.
3rd level is Faith Healing, any Cure spell you cast heals you as if it were Empowered.
4th is DOOMY DOOM!...err...Divine Wrath. If you get hit by or confirm a Critical hit, you can cast Doom as an Immediate action.

Hmmm interesting point, didn't really consider the multiclass benefits. I have been looking at Holy Vindicator and it looks good. However, I want to keep caster levels, but the benefit of getting armor prof., martial weapons, and some interesting abilities sounds good for a melee cleric. However, the abilities for the vindicator wouldnt work well as much because I will be using a two handed weapon and no shield really. Also I will only have 3 channels a day, so not much there.

I was thinking since I have feats to burn, I could go combate expertise->trip line and with the strength domain that should give me something interesting to do in combat. So I think I'll go Strength domain/Travel domain and stick with following an ideal instead of a diety. So i definitely would need to multiclass to Ftr1/Clrxx or Clr8/HV4/Clrxx. Both will give me armor and weapon prof., but one will give an extra feat and the other will give me abilities that are dependent on channeling. So which route would help me in being a two handed wielding greatsword warrior priest?

[grarrrg]

I think I'll go Strength domain/Travel domain and stick with following an ideal instead of a diety.

2 Deities have Strength/Travel as options (see the "Domain/Deity" guide link in my signature!)
Kurgess, NG, Weapon: Javelin, Sub-Domains; Str>Resolve, Tra>Trade

Cayden Cailean, CG, Weapon: Rapier, Sub-Domains; Str>Resolve Str>Ferocity, Tra>Exploration

Neither weapon helps your build any, and I would stay away from Resolve because you lose Enlarge Person.

[ranger557]

True, I have seen those dieties with the travel domain and strength domain, but I didn't like their favored weapons. They are kind of lame for a two hander :smalltongue:.

I was also thinking, even though this is an obsolete book. the Holy Warrior variant sounds pretty good from the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting book. With d10 and Full BAB that should help my fighting abilities with full casting :smallbiggrin:. Or is it not worth it?

I'll try later to post my new build based on straight cleric or multiclass. Thanks for the advice and keep it coming :smallsmile:.

[ranger557]

I have been looking through the cleric class and the oracle class to see what I would like more or what I feel would be better in the end and I have to say the oracle looks good. However, these are the two builds I thought of for a battle priest, using cleric as one and the other oracle. I choose the greatsword as my main weapon, I just love using a big friggin sword :D. What do you guys think is a better build? Thanks

Battle Priest(Cleric/Holy Vindicator Build)

Human Cleric 7/Holy Vindicator 1 (travel and strength domains)
Str: 20 (racial +2, +2 level bump)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

Weapon: +1 Greatsword +13/+8 2d6+8 19-20/x2
Feats: Improved Initiative(Human), Power attack, Furious Focus, Weapon Focus(Greatsword), Toughness, Alignment channel(bonus feat from houserule)
Ranks: 32
Powers: agile feet, strength surge.

Later, I was thinking of going maybe combat expertise->improved trip because at my 8th power for the strength domain of cleric I get "Might of the Gods" to help with strength checks, is that a good route to go? Also the only think I really like is the "Dimension Hop" from the 8th level power of the travel domain.


Battle Priest(Oracle Build)

Human Oracle 8 (battle)
Str: 20 (racial +2, +2 level bump)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Weapon: +1 Greatsword +13/+8 2d6+8 17-20/x2
Feats: Improved Initiative(Human), Toughness, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Extra Revelation(War sight), Extra Revelation(Weapon Mastery)[Bonus feat from houserules]
Ranks: 40
Revelations: War Sight, Weapon Mastery(greatsword), Skill at Arms, Surprising Charge, Maneuver Mastery(Improved Trip)

Now, This looks pretty strong and good for a battle priest I have to admit. However, I know I will lose some flexibility, but I keep forgetting we have a dwarf cleric and he focuses on spellcasting. So I just need to figure out what are the best spells for a combat caster and what are good feats for the later levels? Any Advice? Thanks