Advice for teaching new players.

[WonderfulAngus]

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[killianh]

For teaching them I would suggest a few things.

First off start off in the town so they can get an idea of how the social side of the game works, some skill check type thing with bonuses depending on the situation (Fighter hits on the waitress, get +2 to diplomacy due to large, impressive muscles) so they learn the core idea of D&D (that is role playing and the base mechanic of d20+stat+mod=hopefully what they need)

After that try and set some of the encounter type stuff to work specifically for what the characters are capable of so they can learn how to use what they have. So a few zombies for the cleric, a trap or two for the rogue, and some nice fights where the fighter can learn how to do some of the more interesting stuff (bullrush, disarm, etc). Also don't be afraid to set up the cleric's spell list for him until he gets the hang of being a full caster.

I've taught quite a few groups and I find that a (patient) trial by fire usually works best. The only other suggestion I would make would be for you to switch with the Cleric and let him play the Gnome. DMPCs are better for the healing role than anything, and it'll let him get to know a real caster instead of (with lack of experience on how to play) will just be a healbot

[JeminiZero]

Thanks for the advice. But I feel like she might appreciate the cleric more, does anyone have advice for some better Level 1 Cleric spells (I don't play Clerics much.)
EDIT: Try to keep the cleric spells in core.

Teach him that he can spontaneously convert non-domain prepared spells to cure spells. If they are core only, this will pretty much be their primary source of healing at this level.

Level 1 clerics with reasonable (~16) wis get 3 level 0 spells, and 2+D level 1 spells (where +D refers to the domain). I would probably take:

0. Light
0. Guidance
0. Detect Magic (or if the Arcane caster has that covered, Create Water)
1. Bless
1. Protection Against Evil
D: (Whatever domain he has)

[Grail]

For Cleric spells, you want to demonstrate the different styles of spells.

Bless - the best 1st level buff spell available to the cleric, and it demonstrates AoE spells as well.
Fear - this is a good offensive spell that demonstrates targeted spells and saving throws.
Domain Spell.

As to how to start them off, the town is always a good bet, but the dungeon itself is probably better. With new players (and this is of course dependent upon the individual players), they tend to like getting into the action as quickly as possible.

I would probably leave the DMPC out of the game, if you've made the dungeon well balanced, they won't need it. At low levels, the arcane caster is the one that any party can easily do without. This will give you more time to concentrate on helping the players rather than having to worry about 1 more NPC. It will also demonstrate better the DM/player relationship if you leave the DMPC at home.

A few other things.

Be generous with treasure and rewards
Hand out XP after each encounter, so that the players get used to what XP is and how it is earned.
Let the characters heal faster than normal, so that they can be more heroic more often.
Let them start with maximum money.

[Cwymbran-San]

For a different approach, i recommend as cleric spells

- Command: Can be used like Fear (comand him to "Run") and has other uses as well (command enemy to "Sleep", a different form of crowd control, or command the strongest member of the baddies to "Hug" a comrade).

- Magic Stones: Make the Cleric the only one with a magic weapon and pit the party against an enemy with DR 5/magic. Will teach them another basic mechanic

[JeminiZero]

Thanks for the advice, also her domain was healing, and therefore CLW was her domain spell.

Healing Domain is... generally considered suboptimal. I would recommend something like Knowledge, Luck, Magic, Sun, Time, Travel or Trickery. Also he should have 2 domains in total.

[Musco]

This may sound REALLY weird, but if you're teaching them the game... don't have a DMPC. It might make them lean back and expect the DMPC to take care of things while they just wait for the part they enjoy more (which, at first, is usualy combat, meaning you'll turn RPG'ing into a game of Diablo).

[danzibr]

I'd also stress that killing dudes isn't the only option, unlike lots of other games. Sneaking past, escaping from, diplomacizing, whatever bad dudes is good. You can also get exp from traps and other encounters, etc.

[Person_Man]

It's a shame you're limiting them to core. Core is flawed in a variety of ways, lacks balance, and isn't particularly friendly to newcomers.

I would actually start with classes that offer discrete, easily managed abilities, with no reliance on iterative attacks, special attacks (Trip, Bull Rush, etc), or resource selection (memorizing spells). Things like the Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade, Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Spirit Shaman, etc. You just pick out their spells or maneuvers for them, write them down on index cards, and hand it to them.

Also, +1 to danzibr's advice. Explain that you have created a world, and the world has powerful creatures and gods and characters with agendas, and that they can go about shaping the fate of this world in many ways. It's not a video game, and most things can be resolved without combat.

[Amphetryon]

First thing I always ask a new player is: "Tell me about the character in your head." Players are almost always paying better attention when you're actively helping them realize their concept. So, I'd be asking exactly what your player means when he says "Fighter", especially since 3.5 doesn't necessarily represent the concept well with the class.

[Dr_S]

Have you finished the character creation process yet?

One of the issues with new players is that there's an overwhelming amount of new information, so to not overwhelm them the urge is to choose for them but that's just as bad.

You already picked classes, but just as a general rule (in case someone wants to change) ask them what type of character they want to play, and give them the 3 classes that are closest to what they said (being sure not to assume wizard means D&D wizard because they don't know spontaneous vs. prepared casting etc.)

For skills they can probably handle those on their own, for spells and feats though I'd suggest doing something similar... if they get 1 spell of a given level, pick 3-4 and explain to them how they work (in a way they'd understand, not using game mechanics) and ask them which sounds best...

for your fighter, he's doing thw so grab a handful of good thw feats and let him pick from a more restricted list...

if they don't like the ones you suggest, then expand the list, to include more, but this allows them to process 3-4 feats/spells/classes/whatever at a time and not the entire spell list or feat list.

For actual game play, be patient, try not to introduce new concepts at a high speed, show them how they work a few at a time.

Fun is the priority, rules come second, so teach them at a pace their comfortable with.

[danzibr]

[...] Also, +1 to danzibr's advice. Explain that you have created a world, and the world has powerful creatures and gods and characters with agendas, and that they can go about shaping the fate of this world in many ways. It's not a video game, and most things can be resolved without combat.
Yay, someone liked my advice.

In any case, to follow up, I was speaking from some bad prior experience. I DM'd a couple times and played a couple times where D&D was combat-centric. Basically just a weak plot to string together a bunch of encounters.

I think the better point of view is to treat D&D like a real world. Tell your players you treat it as so. Also, I would suggest strongly encouraging your players to role play, and for the first time through, don't let anyone be evil or chaotic stupid. Someone may get the occasional laugh if they decide to shoot an arrow at their friend, but it does bad things to the game on multiple levels.

Oh yeah, and as for your actual questions, I'd suggest starting in a nearby town and not advising anyone to change their builds in the slightest.

[JeminiZero]

she is a cleric of Pelor, her second domain is Sun, and we really are not going for 'optimal.'

I agree that the degree of optimization you want to use, is of course up to your group. All I'm really trying to say, is that your player might be wondering why she is preparing spells she can already cast spontaneously.


Illusionists are sub-optimal because transmutation and conjuration are so much more versatile.

Actually when it comes to specializing in core only, Diviners are considered the best options, since they lost just one school.