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Hybrid Monkey D
2012-05-25, 02:51 AM
Oh wise and powerful GitP, I have come seeking your knowledge, experience, and expertise!

Recently, in the campaign I play in, my character retired while the rest of my party got captured by slavers. My DM told me that the story continues from being captured, so I could either try and force my character into the plot or make a new character. As I cannot fathom a reason why my character would go back for a bunch of people he thinks died, and I kind of like where he is at the moment, I opted for making a new one.

Now, looking to solve a weakness in our party and try a role I seldom dabble in at the same time, I'm aiming for a melee type character. Also, as we already have a heavy armor wearing, bulky fighter type, I was wanting some kind of dice slinging, damage doing fighter type, with a good splash of magic to differentiate me from the other guy.

I've thought of a few builds that I kinda like, but can't decide on what to do. Let me give you my stat rolls, team makeup, and current ideas and I'll ask for your input on which ones actually work well and maybe better ways of doing what I'm aiming for.

Starting at 8th level, will end around 12-14, I think.
Rolls: 17 16 16 13 11 8
Current Party: Druid (Focused on healing and BC spells), Warmage/Blood Magus, CW Samurai (Focused on BC), Fighter/Rogue

Now, with a warmage and a rogue in the party, damage shouldn't seem like a problem, but we are taking a good bit too long to kill things. (The DM loves singular, big monsters and plays them smart enough to make SA hard to get off.) Also, we lack a source of buff type magic, which would really help.

Okay, on to my ideas:

1.) Cleric/Warlock/Eldritch Disciple
I don't know how to make this build throw down in melee as much as much as I'd like, but it does have a decent blasting power (I think?), and the supportive cleric spell list would immensely help the group. Also, I'm lost as to whether to go cleric 3/ warlock 2 or cleric 4/ warlock 1. As with most of my ideas, I have no idea how well they would function at the specific level range.

2.) Sorcerer/Swiftblade
This one is most decidedly a melee combatant, but seems really squishy. That aside, I really like that Arcane Strike feat for this build, but wouldn't be able to start out with it unless I go with Battle Sorcerer, which seems like I loose too much. Also, I have no idea what to even do with a familiar.

3.) Cleric?/Paladin/Gray Guard
The heaviest of my ideas, but the least magically inclined. I figured I'd focus on divine feats to power the character and give the Magic Warrior theme. I love the paladin feel, but hate the paladin restrictions, and Gray Guard is pretty much there just to alleviate those restrictions. A 1 level cleric dip would give me domains, a larger spell list for wands and scrolls, a second turning pool, and more spells per day (Although, I wouldn't get second level spells until 10th level, beyond that point, it'd be all win.) at the cost of taking a hit to my BAB and HP.

4.) Duskblade
Just a straight duskblade, as I don't really see any PrC's that would give a good enough bonus early enough to warrant taking. It would give me good damage, and decent survivability without any fuss. Simple and clean.

The main issue I'm having is that I'm having trouble seeing which would best benefit the team, and which would do best at the levels we're going to be playing at. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

tl;dr Eldritch Disciple, Swiftblade, Gray Guard, or Duskblade. Levels 8-12, which one?

hoverfrog
2012-05-25, 08:18 AM
A fighter with a splash of magic. Sounds like a paladin or a ranger to me. How about a sorcerer\barbarian or a barbarian\bard?

Sgt. Cookie
2012-05-25, 08:23 AM
If ToB is allowed, I'd recommend a Cleric/Swordsage. Gives you buff magic, fighting prowess and dual use for a high wisdom score. Limited to light armour, mind, and only medium BaB.

Maybe ask if you can adapt Ruby Knight Vindicator to a different set of maneuvers.

Telonius
2012-05-25, 08:26 AM
When you say the DM loves big monsters, are you talking about actual large-sized foes, or just "powerful?"

Hybrid Monkey D
2012-05-25, 08:44 AM
Right. Specifics. Greyhawk campaign, so no eberron or FR stuff. ToB is off limits, DM said he wants time to go over the whole thing.

As for big monsters, he enjoys both large and larger monsters as well as decked out supervillians. Most fights involve one, maybe two majors threats accompanied by plenty of, well, cannon fodder.

I was leaning towards the paladin, but It doesn't feel very magic-y, I suppose.
Does any synergy exist between the barbarian and the CHA casters? I mean, you can't cast spells while raging, and I don't believe you can use bardic music either. And aside from intimidate, what use does a barbarian have for Charisma?

Urpriest
2012-05-25, 09:06 AM
Duskblade would definitely give you the damage you're seeking. As for the Cleric, you'd be high enough level to have a decent amount of DMM up. Starting with Cleric 4/Warlock 1 means that you'll have 3rd level spells, so no Divine Power until next level, but you will have Mass Lesser Vigor if your group was previously worried about healing. You'll have Eldritch Blast +2d6, and even with Eldritch Glaive you'd only have one attack, so you wouldn't be a crazy blaster at this point (though you can Persist Ice Axe, so you could also just go for a Power Attack-focused build).

hoverfrog
2012-05-25, 10:15 AM
I mean, you can't cast spells while raging, and I don't believe you can use bardic music either. And aside from intimidate, what use does a barbarian have for Charisma?Mechanics aside I just like the idea of a skald, a great hulking brute of a warrior, chanting his poetry and war songs as he wades through the enemy. I'm sure that there are suitable prestige classes that could fit the two classes together quite well. You'll never have the voice of an angel but your war chants would certainly inspire courage. Have a look at the Savage Bard variant class. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm

Also a sorcerer with spells that boost the caster would make a formidable barbarian. It doesn't have to be optimised to be fun to play.

Waker
2012-05-25, 10:29 AM
Straight Duskblade is a good choice. You could also try Bard/War Chanter since you seem to have a decent melee setup.

Bloodgruve
2012-05-25, 02:04 PM
I think a Knowledge Devotion Duskblade would be fun. Maybe dip Dragonfire Adept1 for +6 on Know checks or Archivist1 for Dark Knowledge coupled with Versatile Spellcaster and good Spellcraft for casting divine spells you find ;)

Blood~

Fable Wright
2012-05-25, 02:25 PM
I would seriously consider a Bard gish here. With Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart, Inspirational Boost, and Words of Creation, you can throw around a ton of damage and still help buff the party. You can Prestige Class into Sublime Chord and then Knight Phantom at later levels for 5th+ level spells early, on top of good BAB. Or go Swiftblade DFI bard.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-05-25, 02:30 PM
1.) The Eldritch Glaive invocation from Dragon Magic plus Power Attack is probably the direction you want to go for melee damage output, but it's slightly cheesy. Not as cheesy as Persistent Wraithstrike, but about the same as Power Attack with a Fire Lash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) or more preferably a Sonic Lash (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e). YMMV.

2.) Unbelievably squishy until you can get the Minor Shapeshift reserve feat, but Wings of Cover makes a huge difference. You would probably be better of with the standard Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8 build, even though you won't be going to 20th. With Arcane Preparation for (Greater) (Extended) Luminous Armor and Shield via Swift Abjuration, you'll probably have the highest AC in the party. You'll never have enough swift actions in a given round nor 2nd level spell slots in a given day, especially with (Extended) Wraithstrike and Wings of Cover. A build that includes Incantatrix 3+ for persistent buffs would be more viable, but it's extremely high-op and almost requires you to use Wizard instead.

3.) Check out Bone Knight from Five Nations. Go Paladin 4/ Bone Knight 4/ Divine Crusader 1/ Bone Knight 6/ PrCs, and probably use the Wrath domain. Probably even fewer spells than what you had in mind, but they're strong spells. Paladin/Cleric only gets to add his levels together for his single Turn Undead pool, unless you're somehow a paladin of a neutral deity who lets his clerics rebuke instead of turn.

4.) Duskblade can benefit from Abjurant Champion levels if you get Arcane Preparation for (Greater) Luminous Armor and UMD for a Runestaff with Shield on it. Take Power Attack and Arcane Strike and you've got a build.

5.) (Savage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) ) Bard would be a superb choice, especially given your party. Go Silverbrow Human with Melodic Casting, Dragonfire Inspiration, Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) (Fleshraker), Words of Creation, trade Suggestion for Song of the Heart, cast Inspirational Boost, and get a Badge of Valor, an Eternal Wand of Hound of Doom, and a Harmonizing weapon. You can Inspirational Boost + Inspire Courage, then your Harmonizing weapon takes over and you Inspirational Boost + Inspire Courage + DFI + Badge of Valor the next round for both energy damage and flat bonuses. Use a Shortbow, it will benefit from Inspire Courage. Don't forget to use Haste on everyone.

Hybrid Monkey D
2012-05-25, 04:15 PM
Wow, feel the bard love. As power as bards might be, as interesting as bards might be, as diverse as bards might be... To me, they'll always feel like... Well... :elan: Goofy, silly, out of place, misfits that sing, dance, and recite bad poetry while everyone else is engaging in life or death battles. I'm probably in the minority on this, but it'd take a heck of a lot to make me play a bard.

The Eldritch Disciple build would probably be heading towards the Divine Power Eldritch Glaive combo, but it is probably a little too optimized for the rest of the group. I don't know. Maybe not.

The paladin/sorcerer thing is pretty neat, but I'd have to play the paladin part. Wouldn't be a problem, but the DM and I don't quite see eye-to-eye on what a paladin should and shouldn't do.
Paladin! I love you! Why do you have to be so controversial!
And Bone Knight just so happens to be my favorite PrC, but I don't want to break him and his undead legions out onto this game, since it'll be a bit short.

Randomguy
2012-05-25, 04:30 PM
1.) The Eldritch Glaive invocation from Dragon Magic plus Power Attack is probably the direction you want to go for melee damage output, but it's slightly cheesy. Not as cheesy as Persistent Wraithstrike, but about the same as Power Attack with a Fire Lash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) or more preferably a Sonic Lash (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e). YMMV.

I've been curious about glaivelock builds recently: What's the best way to get your BAB up to the magical +16 without losing too many caster levels? You'd need at least 4 levels of a full BAB class. Can warlocks get into any good gish classes?

For added fun, take the bind vestige (naberious) feat and the hellfire warlock prestige class.

ThiagoMartell
2012-05-25, 04:43 PM
1.) The Eldritch Glaive invocation from Dragon Magic plus Power Attack is probably the direction you want to go for melee damage output, but it's slightly cheesy. Not as cheesy as Persistent Wraithstrike, but about the same as Power Attack with a Fire Lash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) or more preferably a Sonic Lash (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e). YMMV.

You can't use Power Attack with eldritch glaive.


I've been curious about glaivelock builds recently: What's the best way to get your BAB up to the magical +16 without losing too many caster levels? You'd need at least 4 levels of a full BAB class. Can warlocks get into any good gish classes?

Cyran Avenger is usually considered a strong choice.
Also, there's a guide to melee warlocks. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708)

INoKnowNames
2012-05-25, 11:43 PM
Wow, feel the bard love. As power as bards might be, as interesting as bards might be, as diverse as bards might be... To me, they'll always feel like... Well... :elan: Goofy, silly, out of place, misfits that sing, dance, and recite bad poetry while everyone else is engaging in life or death battles. I'm probably in the minority on this, but it'd take a heck of a lot to make me play a bard.

I used to be just like you. I always thought the bard as the court jester. The group clown. The joker that was pretty much good for comic relief and little else.

Now I don't see Bard just as Bard. I see Bard as a Synonym for Adventurer. The Bard is an impressive character, capable of doing really anything he sets his mind to, be it as a terrifying force in the front lines, a jack of all trades with an answer to almost any and every situation, or a potent caster as magically strong as any Wizard.

Don't doubt the Bard, not for a second.