Metamagic feats. Are they worth it?

[hoverfrog]

I've played a few wizards before but I've always steered clear of metamagic feats. I've always thought that the trade off between boosting a spell in one area wasn't worth the level adjustment to it.

I've recently started playing an Eberron Changeling wizard with a view to becoming a Recaster (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/eberron-hok/wikis/recaster) and a requirement of the class is that I take two metamagic feats.

I've opted for Silent Spell and Extend Spell but the more I look into the others the more I think that they aren't such a bad choice after all. What is your experience with metamagic feats and do you have a favourite?

Also why is it that creating a metamagic rod requires a 17th level caster?

[Talya]

I've played a few wizards before but I've always steered clear of metamagic feats. I've always thought that the trade off between boosting a spell in one area wasn't worth the level adjustment to it.

They're very worth it, you just have to pick and choose what and when to metamagic, carefully.



Also why is it that creating a metamagic rod requires a 17th level caster?

It doesn't. That's the CL of the item, not the CL required to make it.

[Killer Angel]

Short answer? YES.

Some feats are obviously better than others. But even stayin in Core and without abusing of metamagic reducers, it can be totally worth to pay 4 lev. adj to cast something quicken. And Rods mitigate it.
Rod of extend is golden as, generally, is any rod combined with pearls of power.

[Malachei]

Generally, I find some Metamagic feats slightly overpriced, but they really shine when combined with class features (Ultimate Magus / Incantatrix / Anima Mage) or cost reducers.

Quicken Spell is outstanding at higher levels. Persistent Spell is wonderful, but requires a strategy to circumvent the cost (and I really, really dislike DMM and Nightsticks). Twin Spell can be very interesting, Empower Spell is very valuable for the right build.

Actually, it all depends on the build. At higher levels, there are direct damage builds, like the mailman or cindy, who apply metamagic reducers and various metamagic feats on classic spells like orb of fire or orb of force
. A different concept than battlefield control, which would venture more into the direction of sculpt spell, etc.

[docnessuno]

Without metamagic reducers:
For 'direct damage' i found empower worth the adjustment from level 7/8 onward, and quicken great from level 11/14 onward. I always pick the latter for full spellcasters and always pick the first if the character is going to be a damage dealer (opposed to a debuffer/controller/summoner).

Even if you dislike metamagic reducers, you might like the much more playable version: Residual magic (CM 46) Lingering Metamagic option.

[Eldariel]

The two great metamagic feats from Core are Extend Spell and Quicken Spell. Out of Core, 0-adjustment MM is obviously great (Invisible Spell is a standout) and then you have:
- Sculpt Spell
- Split Ray
- Chain Spell
- Twin Spell (though the +4 cost is very restrictive)

That are all worth it for a wide variety of uses. Energy Admixture can be decent too, as can Empower Spell, for the right uses of both at any rate.

[navar100]

I used to feel they weren't. I thought they were a good idea, but personal preference I just could not spend a spell slot for a lower level spell metamagicked instead of casting the higher level spell the slot is for. It felt inefficient.

What changed my mind was a matter of perspective. I had to tell myself I'm not a lesser spellcaster because I casted a 2nd level spell using up a 4th level spell slot. I really did need to get over that. :smallyuk: I also began to think of my spell slots more as a resource rather than place holders for appropriate level spells. Metamagicked spells allow for more interesting tactics. It doesn't matter how I defeat the bad guys. It just matters that I defeat them.

[Lateral]

My personal favorite is Invisible Spell, I take it on almost every single character.

Invisible spell is one of those rare, delicious few metamagic feats with no downsides. For a prepared caster, anyway. There's no spell level adjustment, just 'this thing is invisible.' It's delightfully vague, too- sure, it's obvious how an invisible Fireball or Cone of Cold works, but think about, say, an invisible Summon Monster. Are your summons invisible? The effect is 'one summoned creature,' so... yeah. For a feat, invisible summons. Even better, it would (sort of) be Greater Invisibility, since the clause that if you attack you lose it is in the invisibility spell, not the special ability. There are some spells, like Obscuring Mist or the Image line, where applying Invisible Spell gets rid of their biggest benefits, but it's wonderful pretty much anywhere else.

[Randomguy]

I've opted for Silent Spell and Extend Spell but the more I look into the others the more I think that they aren't such a bad choice after all. What is your experience with metamagic feats and do you have a favourite?

Silent spell isn't that great for wizards. It only really comes up when you're gagged or sneaking around, or in gaseous form or similar. Also, recaster gives it and still spell 1/day/class level, which should be plenty.

Quicken spell is very worth it at higher levels. The more spells you get off in a round, the faster the enemy goes down and the less chances they have to hurt you. Recaster also gives you this, but a much, much weaker version.

Metamagicked spells can sometimes be more powerful than higher level versions of that spell. The best example of this is ennervation: Split ray enervation is level 6, and does as many negative levels as energy drain, a level 9 spell. And you can also empower it. And thanks to recaster or some metamagic reducers, you can maximize it on top of all that.

And twinned split rayed searing scorching ray is a 9th level spell does as much damage as meteor swarm, and ignores fire resistance, and does half damage on enemies that are immune to fire. And that's without any metamagic reducers at all. A single feat would let you empower the whole thing and add on as many +1 metamagics as you like, and it'd all be a level 7 spell.

[Venger]

Invisible spell is one of those rare, delicious few metamagic feats with no downsides. For a prepared caster, anyway. There's no spell level adjustment, just 'this thing is invisible.' It's delightfully vague, too- sure, it's obvious how an invisible Fireball or Cone of Cold works, but think about, say, an invisible Summon Monster. Are your summons invisible? The effect is 'one summoned creature,' so... yeah. For a feat, invisible summons. Even better, it would (sort of) be Greater Invisibility, since the clause that if you attack you lose it is in the invisibility spell, not the special ability. There are some spells, like Obscuring Mist or the Image line, where applying Invisible Spell gets rid of their biggest benefits, but it's wonderful pretty much anywhere else.

invisible spell is indeed a great something for nothing (you do need to have 1 MM feat beforehand, but that's whatever)

greater invisibility on monsters is a little cheesy but it is fun to cast invisible spells. realistically, I don't see a DM allowing that to fly, it just isn't very sporting.

you are, however, mistaken about the obscuring mist/fog cloud/etc line of spells. there is a very useful (and somewhat broad) use for those spells modified via invisible spell.

when you are fighting devils/demons or other creatures with the true seeing ability, lay down some invisible fog. you can see through it, but thanks to their true seeing, they can't! makes those spells a lot less worthless

[Lateral]

you are, however, mistaken about the obscuring mist/fog cloud/etc line of spells.

I didn't say it made them useless, just less useful. A battlefield control effect that works only on creatures with True Seeing is much less versatile than a general control effect unless you're fighting a lot of creatures with True Seeing, even if it eliminates friendly fire.

[Venusaur]

Invisible Invisibility. No downside, and you can argue it foils true seeing.

[Lateral]

Invisible Invisibility. No downside, and you can argue it foils true seeing.

...No, you can't. It gives you the ability to 'see invisible creatures or objects normally.' No ifs, ands, or buts. That's why the Invisible Obscuring Mist thing works the way it does.

[Dairuga]

It doesn't. That's the CL of the item, not the CL required to make it.

I was under the impression that you had to be the same level or higher of the item that you wanted to create?

How does it work then, if not?

[Telonius]

I was under the impression that you had to be the same level or higher of the item that you wanted to create?

How does it work then, if not?

You have to be of sufficient level to both cast all the required spells and have the item creation feat. The CL line in the item description just shows how hard it is to dispel the item.

In many cases the CL of the item does equal the level of the caster required to cast the spells, but there are exceptions, especially with Wondrous Items. I've found the best way to remember this is that Universal Solvent and Sovereign Glue are both CL 20th.

[kabreras]

A twined avasculate always make its litle effect

[137beth]

For spontaneous casters, they are definitely worth it. For prepared casters, however, it takes some more planning. Still, they do have their place. I still think the rules need to be rewritten, but by RAW metamagic is still worth it.