View Full Version : Impact of Fortitude changes? Str-based, stability, etc. (3.5e/etc)

2012-05-25, 06:39 PM
My basic idea is this: Fortitude becomes Strength-based.

Consequences and other alterations:

Poison becomes a damage type with rider condition effects, and my Endurance (Con) skill takes over resisting poison effects. (I don't like ability-damage effects anyway, so this would be descriptive stuff like slowing or penalty effects.)
Constitution still covers HP (and then some, gaining Con score to 1st leve PC health), so Con still helps there.
Grapple attacks are rolled vs Fortitude defense (passive 10+save bonus, used for other saves at times as well) as are Trip attempts.
My acrobatics skill still covers balance in general, putting a distinction between the two, one being about being an immobile juggernaut, the other a fast-enough dancer to keep their feet despite difficulties.

What other major Fort-save-based effects would feel odd going with Fort-as-Str?

My Rationale:
Basically, Strength in my current setup is undervalued. I AM going for intentional MAD, with the intent that an equal character is generally more effective, while a character with focused/skewed stats is more challenging, though not unviable, with special builds able to excel with effort. Strength is a dump stat for almost any caster, normally covering only melee and bow-based damage (not attack) and carry capacity. Meanwhile, Dex has the attacks for both melee and ranged (forcing a dichotomy of fast&accurate but weak, versus slow&unreliable but heavy-hitting), and Con is overburdened with fortitude saves AND hit points, which means that because HP is so scarce for caster types, they're even more likely to pump con than straight melee types, giving them higher fort saves (with a good base save from class) than fighter-types. I think this is part of what created cleric-zilla if not CoDzilla in mainline 3.5etc.

Switching it to Strength puts the emphasis more on melee bruiser types, and gives Strength more base value in the system, since in my case, it was like Charisma is now in 3.5, either entirely ignored, or boosted to hell for the purpose of over-boosting special effects based on it. Dex gets both attack types, as well as reflex saves and AC, but loses initiative to Charisma. (I'm almost debating killing reflex saves in favor of folding that into touch attacks, since AC is also gaining a (minor) level-based defense boost, but that might be too drastic.. Though it would help boost blaster-based evocation a bit.. Hmm.)
Thoughts? Ravings? Pure, unrelenting hatred? (hopefully less of the latter two)

2012-05-25, 07:28 PM
huh... I feel strongly ambivalent.

I would rather have str become an option for will saves, as it would help the poor fighter...

Mithril Leaf
2012-05-25, 07:44 PM
I would feel immensely indifferent. There are few thing that 4e did right, but I feel as though letting saves be from either of two stats isn't especially bad. It just means that more people get good saves.

2012-05-25, 08:21 PM
Well, it's not an optional choice, it's a standard replacement in my houserules.

And actually, I killed Fighter as a class (instead I use it as a replacement for initiator level, as a counterpart to caster level). In its place, we have a more swashbuckling/mildly-psionic-assasin full-BAB Rogue, an all-alignments Knight (aka paladin/crusader/blackguard), a full-level animation-companion Ranger, and a raging/shapeshifting Berserker. They all have external supernatural powers so that by level 20 they're mythic, magical figures in their own right, as well as having non-combat themes to fall back on. Fighter didn't really have anything but combat as a 'thing' to do.

2012-05-25, 08:26 PM
so, does this set up have any other changes?

2012-05-25, 08:38 PM
Well, tons, literally. I'm still compiling. (It's sort of my answer to 3e/4e/5e edition wars, taking the best mechanics and setting concepts from any and all available sources and creating my own game world.)

If you look up my post history, pretty much every homebrew post I put up here is (or was, in past versions) incorporated, all the way back to my auras/invocations bard rewrite. (Excepting the second thread, 'building my own system...', that's a different project.)

I like to tinker.