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Jukebox Hero
2012-05-25, 10:01 PM
Hi, I'm usually just a lurker here on GitP forums, but today, I come to you with a problem. My group has been playing D&D 3.5 together for 5 years now. Together, we've tried out D&D 4e, Star Wars, Mutants & Masterminds, CoC, D&D first edition, and Dark Heresy, but we've always come back to 3.5. I, along with two of the more senior players, have agreed that it's time for a change. We've played so much that, without much effort, at least one of us has memorized the class progression, racial statistics, feats, and monsters from the SRD and more. We've played too much. When one of us DMs, at least one or two other players know the stats of the monster, the spells they have, their CR....and it's just become somewhat monotonous.

You're probably getting a little tired of my exposition, so I'll get to the point. I'm looking for an alternative system to D&D,a permanent one. Something that is or can be set in the fantasy world, with many options.

Many thanks,
Jukebox Hero

navar100
2012-05-25, 10:14 PM
You could try Pathfinder. It's 3E with a kick. You will notice the difference with warrior classes right away. You will have to unlearn some rules assumptions. Some 3E fans like Pathfinder's changes. Others don't, but this is not about debating the merits of Pathfinder. Given you want to change things a bit, Pathfinder works as a segue.

You could try a classless system. GURPS would be a radical change. No classes at all, you pay for abilities using points. It also uses 3d6 as its dice mechanic for a 3-18 bell curve, quite different from d20 linearity of D&D.

Zaq
2012-05-25, 10:15 PM
Have you looked at Legend (http://www.ruleofcool.com/)?

Grail
2012-05-25, 10:25 PM
True20 is great.
GURPS
Palladium
MERP
Rolemaster
RuneQuest

Grod_The_Giant
2012-05-25, 10:27 PM
Exalted might be fun, if you're looking for something very different. It has a pretty specific fantasy setting, but it's big and vague enough that you can mess with it pretty much however you want. (And unlike Forgotten Realms, you're supposed to reshape the world in your image). It's a very high-powered epic fantasy, though.

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-05-25, 11:23 PM
Have you looked at Legend (http://www.ruleofcool.com/)?

Seconded. I've heard Legend described as "4E done right" 'round these parts.

erikun
2012-05-25, 11:26 PM
Burning Wheel immediately comes to mind, what with some think rules to chew into but a significantly different system to play around with. HeroQuest also comes to mind, although the attitude of HeroQuest (align the challanges based on dramatic convenience) is considerably different than the attitude of D&D (create a dungeon full of monsters for the PCs to kill).

You might want to give Fate RPG (http://www.faterpg.com/resources/) or Fudge RPG (http://www.fudgerpg.com/goodies/fudge-files/core/FUDGE-1995-Edition-(PDF)/) a look as well, for being a different system you can pick up for free.

Gorgondantess
2012-05-25, 11:47 PM
Have you ever considered that you- or at least the rest of your group- continually returns to 3.5 because you like the familiarity? Something to consider. You might want to try out a different d20 system, in that case.

Darth_Versity
2012-05-26, 12:38 AM
Id recommend the dragon age rpg by green ronnin, especially if you've played the games and know the setting. Barring that, why not wait for DnD next? I imagine it'll be out sometime next year.

Jukebox Hero
2012-05-26, 12:39 AM
Have you looked at Legend (http://www.ruleofcool.com/)?

I've taken a brief look at it (just now), and it looks like a fun system, but it's just too similar to 4e, and there still aren't enough options. My main problem with Legends, as good as it is, is that there just isn't enough room for customization, not enough options...which probably means I'm looking for something older, with lots of sourcebooks already out in publication.


Seconded. I've heard Legend described as "4E done right" 'round these parts.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly. Although some people enjoy 4e...I just can't bring myself to like it. Even though this might just be bias, because Legends is more similar to 3.5, it seems like a far more enjoyable system.


Burning Wheel immediately comes to mind, what with some think rules to chew into but a significantly different system to play around with. HeroQuest also comes to mind, although the attitude of HeroQuest (align the challanges based on dramatic convenience) is considerably different than the attitude of D&D (create a dungeon full of monsters for the PCs to kill).

Burning Wheel looks interesting, with its d6-based system, but since I'm currently overseas (and will be for several months), I won't be able to take a look at it until later.


You could try Pathfinder. It's 3E with a kick. You will notice the difference with warrior classes right away. You will have to unlearn some rules assumptions. Some 3E fans like Pathfinder's changes. Others don't, but this is not about debating the merits of Pathfinder. Given you want to change things a bit, Pathfinder works as a segue.

You could try a classless system. GURPS would be a radical change. No classes at all, you pay for abilities using points. It also uses 3d6 as its dice mechanic for a 3-18 bell curve, quite different from d20 linearity of D&D.

I've heard of GURPS, and suggested to my group that we take a look at it. Apparently, some of them had tried it before, and it wasn't to their liking, to say the least.

Pathfinder, we've looked at, but we decided to stick with 3.5 for some reason...I'm not sure why...probably because one of the members in the group owns almost every 3.5 book in publication. But I'll take another look at it...


Have you ever considered that you- or at least the rest of your group- continually returns to 3.5 because you like the familiarity? Something to consider. You might want to try out a different d20 system, in that case.

Actually I've already considered this, but I've concluded that this isn't necessarily the case. It's simply that 3.5 matches what we're looking for most adequately, out of what systems we've tried out. We're fans of fantasy setting, although some of us enjoy others, I know 3 members of our group regularly play Mutants and Masterminds, and 2 of the group (myself included) enjoy Call of Cthulu immensely (when we can find a group willing to play). One person left our group for one that played mainly Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader. Three people in the group carry on a small Star Wars game when they're the only ones available.

It's simply that there just isn't anything that we all like other than 3.5.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm still looking at Pathfinder and something my friend suggested, Savage Worlds.

J.Gellert
2012-05-26, 12:54 AM
I've given up D&D for Mutants & Masterminds (2nd edition).

In a fantasy world. I've built an entire campaign setting around it, as well as various rules books, including a Monster Manual with ~200 monsters. It works great and the only real difference is that we don't use Hero Points.

I understand if it's hard for some people to look past the Superhero fluff. Even with things like the Warriors & Warlocks sourcebook, the designers were underselling a fantastic generic system when they made the main book about supers...

You could also try the playtest for D&D 5th :smallbiggrin:

Jukebox Hero
2012-05-26, 01:15 AM
Id recommend the dragon age rpg by green ronnin, especially if you've played the games and know the setting. Barring that, why not wait for DnD next? I imagine it'll be out sometime next year.

The Dragon Age RPG was actually suggested to me by a member of the group, but as a rule of thumb, I avoid systems that revolve around a setting, particularly if the players know more about the setting than I do (I'm the primary DM, although I do enjoy playing as well).


You could also try the playtest for D&D 5th :smallbiggrin:

What? Playtest for 5th? How? Where?

Drglenn
2012-05-26, 01:21 AM
I second exalted. I will also point out that you don't have to play the hyper-powerful exalts. There are rules for playing heroic mortals, you just have to be fine with the fact that, in the base setting, every exalt and their mothers can kill you without much thought. Also you want to be moderately powerful but not all-conquering murderbeasts (or guile-beasts if you want that, high-powered exalts can function as either, or both) you can play dragonblooded, lower powered exalts and the current rulers of creation, though they'll still go down like wet paper in a stiff breeze to your average solar unless they gang up. Whatever you play exalted-wise, be prepared to be rolling tons of d10s (I think my circle of friends current record is 45ish, but that can be barely scratching the surface)

Also, out of the games not already suggested I would reccommend one of the world of darkness games (vampire, werewolf etc), they mainly (i.e. other than specific-era ones) use modern day america as their base setting but with a twist (i.e. the aforementioned vampires, werewolves etc.) though the setting can easily be changed to whatever you want it to be. Again, expect to be rolling quite a few d10s, just usually in lesser quantities than Exalted.

Another game I like is Scion. Its essentially Exalted in the modern day but instead of playing Exalts you play offspring of the gods (i.e. the classical gods, the core book has rules for offspring of the Greco-Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Japanese, Voodoo and Aztec gods) and has consequences for using your powers in the presence of mortals: their fate may end up bound to yours.

Wow, really seems like I'm fanboying for white wolf there, but it is just that the main other games I like have been mentioned already

J.Gellert
2012-05-26, 01:21 AM
There you go. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/default.aspx?takeme=home)

Jukebox Hero
2012-05-26, 02:33 AM
I second exalted. I will also point out that you don't have to play the hyper-powerful exalts. There are rules for playing heroic mortals, you just have to be fine with the fact that, in the base setting, every exalt and their mothers can kill you without much thought. Also you want to be moderately powerful but not all-conquering murderbeasts (or guile-beasts if you want that, high-powered exalts can function as either, or both) you can play dragonblooded, lower powered exalts and the current rulers of creation, though they'll still go down like wet paper in a stiff breeze to your average solar unless they gang up. Whatever you play exalted-wise, be prepared to be rolling tons of d10s (I think my circle of friends current record is 45ish, but that can be barely scratching the surface)

Also, out of the games not already suggested I would reccommend one of the world of darkness games (vampire, werewolf etc), they mainly (i.e. other than specific-era ones) use modern day america as their base setting but with a twist (i.e. the aforementioned vampires, werewolves etc.) though the setting can easily be changed to whatever you want it to be. Again, expect to be rolling quite a few d10s, just usually in lesser quantities than Exalted.

Another game I like is Scion. Its essentially Exalted in the modern day but instead of playing Exalts you play offspring of the gods (i.e. the classical gods, the core book has rules for offspring of the Greco-Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Japanese, Voodoo and Aztec gods) and has consequences for using your powers in the presence of mortals: their fate may end up bound to yours.

Wow, really seems like I'm fanboying for white wolf there, but it is just that the main other games I like have been mentioned already

Woah...that's a lot of information. Now I feel kinda pressured to take another look into Exalted...but I already have, and although it seems like a good game, it just doesn't seem suited to the playstyle of our group. But thanks for your input. To each his own. :smallbiggrin:


There you go. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/default.aspx?takeme=home)

OMG!!

TheOOB
2012-05-26, 03:33 AM
Personally, I would avoid anything with a d20 for awhile. The d20 system is great, but there are so many RPGs systems out there you owe it to yourself to try something else.

Exalted is awesome, but keep in mind it's a pretty deep rabbit hole. It's one of the most complex and difficult to master game systems currently being printed, and, being a White Wolf product, it's rules are not written quite as well as you may be used to(White Wolf is great and making settings, less than great at making working game systems).

Depending on what kind of fantasy world you're looking for, 7th Sea is amazing if you can get ahold of it. The swashbuckling action pirate theme is different than you may be used too, but that's not a bad thing. It's more recent and better written sister system, Legend of the Five Rings, is Japanese fantasy, with samurai and stuff, which may also work.

Shadowrun is also cyberpunk fantasy, if that's your thing.

GolemsVoice
2012-05-26, 06:26 AM
Have you tried Savage Worlds? There are a number of settings (I really like Hellfrost, a kind of LotR/Nordic/Warcraft-themed traditional fantasy settings) and the rules without setting are reasonably easy, lightweight and adaptable for almost any purpose.

Darth_Versity
2012-05-26, 07:11 AM
The Dragon Age RPG was actually suggested to me by a member of the group, but as a rule of thumb, I avoid systems that revolve around a setting, particularly if the players know more about the setting than I do (I'm the primary DM, although I do enjoy playing as well).

One of the great things about dragon age is that its so easy to just ignore the setting and use your own ideas. For an experienced dm its really easy to judge how things like homemade backgrounds and talents would effect the game so it lends itself really well to new homebrew as well.

Green ronnin are currently making a generic rpg game based on the age system so you could wait and buy that when it comes out.

SSGoW
2012-05-26, 08:12 AM
Here in the homebrew section is a RPG called "FF D6" by Dust

Even if you don't like the final fantasy games it is a pretty fricken good system and its free :p

Man on Fire
2012-05-26, 09:10 AM
Savage Worlds - pretty easy system in which you can play whatever you want.
GURPS - the same, only very comcplicated.

Grail
2012-05-26, 09:16 AM
Savage Worlds - pretty easy system in which you can play whatever you want.
GURPS - the same, only very comcplicated.

True20 - the same, but a d20 derivative, and thus easily recognizable, but gets around some of the more annoying d20 features such as Alignment, AC and HP.

Amiel
2012-05-26, 09:33 AM
I would suggest Pathfinder actually, it's different enough from D&D that you may find great fun and joy in rediscovering the mechanics, and it also has that reassuring similarity.
Of course the chassis could be too similar though.

UserClone
2012-05-26, 09:36 AM
DUNGEON WORLD! (http://www.dungeon-world.com)

Morty
2012-05-26, 09:38 AM
Anima: Beyond Fantasy seems to do mostly what D&D tries to, but much better, from my experience. However, the mechanics are rather fine-grained and extensive, which can be intimidating.

Das Platyvark
2012-05-26, 09:49 AM
World of Darkness is awesome, but chances are it's not what you're looking for.
For a simple system (it might be better as a one shot, but could definitely do a longer campaign too) Old School Hack (http://www.oldschoolhack.net/) is wonderful. It has the feel of heroic fantasy, in the style of 1e, but is quite simple to learn.

Rogue Shadows
2012-05-26, 09:54 AM
FATAL

...

...that...that's not even very funny, is it?

In all honesty, Pathfinder's your best bet, especially since most stuff in 3.5 is fairly forward-compatible.

Raum
2012-05-26, 10:07 AM
I'm looking for an alternative system to D&D,a permanent one. Something that is or can be set in the fantasy world, with many options.What do you want in a system? You said options, do you mean lots of accessory books, lots of choices in character building, or something else?

Without knowing more of what you're looking for, I'll try the shotgun approach...maybe something will look interesting.

FATE: Simple mechanics, mechanics affect the narrative, lots of building options. Does have user created statistics but limits how they're used.

Earthdawn: D&D that 'makes sense'. There's a reason for dungeons, a reason for adventuring, a reason for just about everything. It's also in three systems now, it's own 'classic' system, Savage Worlds, and d20.

Savage Worlds: Easy to pick up and plays quickly. Lots of different settings. Lots of tactical options.

Unisystem: Has very evocative powers and a straightforward core mechanic. It isn't balanced. The Witchcraft pdf is free if you want to take a look.

ORE: Fast and gritty system with lots of options and several supported settings. One of them (Nemesis? Can't remember the name.) has a free pdf. Wild Talents (a Supers setting) probably has the widest range of character build options.

Krazzman
2012-05-26, 10:52 AM
I would've never thought to advice this but: if you search for a low fantasy (or at least low magic) rpg how about trying out DSA - Das Schwarze Auge 4th Edition. You have a pointbuy system. You qualify for certain classpackages with your stats. Like needing a 13 in strenght for Warriors and so on. Other features are: intelligence determines your skillpoints. Skills are keyed of of 3 Attributes. You have to roll UNDER the value you have. The combat is a bit... hard pressed. It could be confusing etc. since you have attacking and blocking or you can forgive the block for a second attack. But combat is most times avoided since healing is.... medieval. But it is meant to be that way.

It could be a far enough change. But I'm not sure if they even distributed it outside of germany.

ScubaGoomba
2012-05-26, 11:45 AM
Cortex+ recently released a Marvel licensed superhero system that's pretty solid and worth checking out. You won't get the benefit of multiple source books, but it's dirt cheap and a fun play.

runeghost
2012-05-26, 12:03 PM
You could try Pathfinder. It's 3E with a kick. You will notice the difference with warrior classes right away. You will have to unlearn some rules assumptions. Some 3E fans like Pathfinder's changes. Others don't, but this is not about debating the merits of Pathfinder. Given you want to change things a bit, Pathfinder works as a segue.

You could try a classless system. GURPS would be a radical change. No classes at all, you pay for abilities using points. It also uses 3d6 as its dice mechanic for a 3-18 bell curve, quite different from d20 linearity of D&D.

I'd also recommend Pathfinder and GURPS. I just started playing in a Pathfinder game, and it's the most fun I've had since 1st edition. GURPS is a pretty crunchy system, but it's definitely a change, and it's almost infinitely adaptable. It can also be addictive. :smallsmile:

navar100
2012-05-26, 12:05 PM
If you go the Pathfinder route . . .

Pathfinder is purposely compatible with 3E. Your friend with the 3E library can still use it. Some things need a little house rule conversion (such as Divine Feats use up Channeling uses), but it's not hard. Mostly it will all come down to the feats. Use the 3E feat where Pathfinder has no equivalent. Where Pathfinder changed a 3E feat, decide which you like better.

Glimbur
2012-05-26, 12:32 PM
If the problem is familiarity with enemies, you can fix that by drawing on different sources for monsters. The homebrew forum here has a number of monsters, and I'm sure other places on the internet have ideas also. This is somewhat more work because the DM will have to consider "does this monster work at its CR?" but you honestly have to do that with first party monsters too.

You can also add in more monsters with class levels to surprise players, but that requires more DM effort.

Jukebox Hero
2012-05-26, 07:22 PM
Wow. I didn't expect so many responses. Thank you everyone for all the help.


If you go the Pathfinder route . . .

Pathfinder is purposely compatible with 3E. Your friend with the 3E library can still use it. Some things need a little house rule conversion (such as Divine Feats use up Channeling uses), but it's not hard. Mostly it will all come down to the feats. Use the 3E feat where Pathfinder has no equivalent. Where Pathfinder changed a 3E feat, decide which you like better.

Maybe back when we weren't tired of 3.5, Pathfinder would have been a viable (maybe even great) option - but, right now, we're looking for if not a radical change, something a little more different.


If the problem is familiarity with enemies, you can fix that by drawing on different sources for monsters. The homebrew forum here has a number of monsters, and I'm sure other places on the internet have ideas also. This is somewhat more work because the DM will have to consider "does this monster work at its CR?" but you honestly have to do that with first party monsters too.

You can also add in more monsters with class levels to surprise players, but that requires more DM effort.

It's not only the monsters that are the problem, but we've played roughly every week for 5 years, probably a little more. (Our meetings didn't take place every week, but sometimes, we met two or three times in a week, and then took a break.)


What do you want in a system? You said options, do you mean lots of accessory books, lots of choices in character building, or something else?

Without knowing more of what you're looking for, I'll try the shotgun approach...maybe something will look interesting.

FATE: Simple mechanics, mechanics affect the narrative, lots of building options. Does have user created statistics but limits how they're used.

Earthdawn: D&D that 'makes sense'. There's a reason for dungeons, a reason for adventuring, a reason for just about everything. It's also in three systems now, it's own 'classic' system, Savage Worlds, and d20.

Savage Worlds: Easy to pick up and plays quickly. Lots of different settings. Lots of tactical options.

Unisystem: Has very evocative powers and a straightforward core mechanic. It isn't balanced. The Witchcraft pdf is free if you want to take a look.

ORE: Fast and gritty system with lots of options and several supported settings. One of them (Nemesis? Can't remember the name.) has a free pdf. Wild Talents (a Supers setting) probably has the widest range of character build options.

Wow, Especially after reading this, I had no idea how many tabletop RPGs were out there. ORE and FATE sound interesting, I'll try to take a look at them, but Savage Worlds looks really good to me. I've taken a look at the rules, the system, and it seems to fit everything I'm looking for. I think I'm going to try suggesting this to my group after we try out the playtest for the next edition of D&D. The only thing I'm afraid of is that it'll be too...radically different for a couple of them. I'm hoping that I, along with the person who suggested the system, am able to convince them that we'll grow to love it in time.


I would suggest Pathfinder actually, it's different enough from D&D that you may find great fun and joy in rediscovering the mechanics, and it also has that reassuring similarity.
Of course the chassis could be too similar though.

I'll might take another look at it...and maybe, I'll even suggest that we give it a shot, seeing as how it's so similar to 3.5, it'll be relatively easy to make a Pathfinder campaign.


Savage Worlds - pretty easy system in which you can play whatever you want.
GURPS - the same, only very comcplicated.

Savage Worlds: I've already taken a look, looks very promising. I know someone who plays in a Savage Worlds - Deadlands group, and hopefully, I'll be able to hop in for a little bit.

GURPS: Not an option. A few of my players are strongly against it, saying that it's...just not their cup of tea (not verbatim :smallsmile:).


Have you tried Savage Worlds? There are a number of settings (I really like Hellfrost, a kind of LotR/Nordic/Warcraft-themed traditional fantasy settings) and the rules without setting are reasonably easy, lightweight and adaptable for almost any purpose.

Savage Worlds...I regret that I didn't hear of this sooner, before tabletop gaming became synonymous with D&D, but hopefully, I'll be able to convince my group to take a shot at it and then convert to using it as our primary system. I feel like it's the best system for us out there to combine all of our other tastes (sci-fi, superhero, horror, etc.) into one system that we all know, so that we won't have to learn another system everytime we want to use a different setting.

Thank you to everyone again. This has been really helpful. :smallbiggrin:

horngeek
2012-05-26, 11:09 PM
You might want to give Fate RPG (http://www.faterpg.com/resources/) or Fudge RPG (http://www.fudgerpg.com/goodies/fudge-files/core/FUDGE-1995-Edition-(PDF)/) a look as well, for being a different system you can pick up for free.

I'm going to second this- and if you want a quite workable magic system, you might consider picking up the Dresden Files RPG.

YES, I know you said you don't want to play something tied to a setting, but the great thing about the game is, it's rather easy to cut it loose from the DFRPG. Two skills need changing (guns and Driving) for a world with typical fantasy technology, and you might want to ignore the Laws of Magic...

And that's it. That's all the tinkering you need. The powers section is flexible enough to do just about anything, and the way the game works, wizards are quite well balanced with purely physical type characters- they might have more power, but they have less Fate Points by default.

The main thing I will warn about for the DFRPG (or any FATE system)- do not use this system for dungeon-crawls. FATE is meant to tell a narrative much more than D&D.

erikun
2012-05-26, 11:24 PM
Wow, Especially after reading this, I had no idea how many tabletop RPGs were out there.
I guess I should go ahead and mention Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm), The Window (http://www.mimgames.com/window/rules/), Wushu (http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/WushuOpenRules), Wuthering Heights (silly) (http://www.unseelie.org/rpg/wh/index.html), and whatever else you can find here (http://www.1km1kt.net/cat/rpg). I make no claims to the quality of said RPGs, though.

Larkas
2012-05-26, 11:45 PM
If you want to try something a little more funny, I'll point you towards Hackmaster, though it lends itself to more serious campaigns too. It is pretty much a revised AD&D 2E, and that is different enough from 3.5 for you to feel like you're playing another game. Like 2E, it is also more "low magic", and that might be a plus.

If you want a less "high fantasy" feel (though it is fantasy nonetheless), I must say that you might have some fun fiddling around with d20 Modern. The underlying system is the same as D&D 3.5's (and Star Wars d20's, for that matter), which is a familiar ground for you, but the feel is very different. It might pay to take a look, anyways.

And if you want your players to feel like beating you with heavy books, look no further than Paranoia! It IS a very funny system, anyways, and it lends itself marvelously to one-shots, when you want a change from whatever you're playing at the moment, but don't want to commit to a new system.

Jukebox Hero
2012-05-27, 12:13 AM
If you want to try something a little more funny, I'll point you towards Hackmaster, though it lends itself to more serious campaigns too. It is pretty much a revised AD&D 2E, and that is different enough from 3.5 for you to feel like you're playing another game. Like 2E, it is also more "low magic", and that might be a plus.

If you want a less "high fantasy" feel (though it is fantasy nonetheless), I must say that you might have some fun fiddling around with d20 Modern. The underlying system is the same as D&D 3.5's (and Star Wars d20's, for that matter), which is a familiar ground for you, but the feel is very different. It might pay to take a look, anyways.

And if you want your players to feel like beating you with heavy books, look no further than Paranoia! It IS a very funny system, anyways, and it lends itself marvelously to one-shots, when you want a change from whatever you're playing at the moment, but don't want to commit to a new system.

I've actually tried out d20 modern and found it rather enjoyable; one of the members in my group is pushing for it, and it seems like it'll continue to be something that our group enjoys once in a while. But we're looking for something set further back in time, before the age of automatic weapons. Paranoia? Unfortunately, a couple of the core members in our group aren't fans of casual/funny gaming, the reason why we only played RISUS once. Thanks for the input though.


I'm going to second this- and if you want a quite workable magic system, you might consider picking up the Dresden Files RPG.

YES, I know you said you don't want to play something tied to a setting, but the great thing about the game is, it's rather easy to cut it loose from the DFRPG. Two skills need changing (guns and Driving) for a world with typical fantasy technology, and you might want to ignore the Laws of Magic...

And that's it. That's all the tinkering you need. The powers section is flexible enough to do just about anything, and the way the game works, wizards are quite well balanced with purely physical type characters- they might have more power, but they have less Fate Points by default.

The main thing I will warn about for the DFRPG (or any FATE system)- do not use this system for dungeon-crawls. FATE is meant to tell a narrative much more than D&D.

I've taken a brief look at FATE, and I don't believe I'll be able to sell the idea to my group. The local gaming store only has a small selection of books, and FATE isn't among them. And most of the players avoid pdf files unless absolutely necessary (rolls eyes in frustration)...which means that we can only use systems that either have something extremely appealing about them inherently (eg: Star Wars), or something that we can acquire at the store: 4e, 3.5, Savage Worlds, Dark Heresy, etc.

navar100
2012-05-27, 12:38 AM
For flavorful magic, try Ars Magica. It's part point base part dice rolling for character creation and all rolls are a d10. You play a Magus of great magic power from power creation but can also have a secondary character, warrior or not. You can mirror Harry Potter with it. :smallbiggrin:

horngeek
2012-05-27, 02:56 AM
I've taken a brief look at FATE, and I don't believe I'll be able to sell the idea to my group. The local gaming store only has a small selection of books, and FATE isn't among them. And most of the players avoid pdf files unless absolutely necessary (rolls eyes in frustration)...which means that we can only use systems that either have something extremely appealing about them inherently (eg: Star Wars), or something that we can acquire at the store: 4e, 3.5, Savage Worlds, Dark Heresy, etc.
Can't you order it in? The first book, Your Story, is all you really need (Our World has most of the monster profiles, but you can easily make your own).

GolemsVoice
2012-05-27, 04:35 AM
Savage Worlds...I regret that I didn't hear of this sooner, before tabletop gaming became synonymous with D&D, but hopefully, I'll be able to convince my group to take a shot at it and then convert to using it as our primary system. I feel like it's the best system for us out there to combine all of our other tastes (sci-fi, superhero, horror, etc.) into one system that we all know, so that we won't have to learn another system everytime we want to use a different setting.


Glad to be of service. Another beautiful thing about savage worlds is that, like D20, it has a lot of settings that can be bought for it should you ever feel like it, along with an active community behind it, so you'll always have some new stuff, and most of it is free.
Yet another great thing is that SW manages the powerlevel a bit better than D&D. At each step, the players are heroes and can stand their own in their chosen field if you throw level appropriate things at them, but there will be danger. At the beginning, you're a dude who's not bad at what he does, in the end you're a great hero who has mastered his field, but you're not invincible.

Jukebox Hero
2012-05-27, 05:24 AM
For flavorful magic, try Ars Magica. It's part point base part dice rolling for character creation and all rolls are a d10. You play a Magus of great magic power from power creation but can also have a secondary character, warrior or not. You can mirror Harry Potter with it. :smallbiggrin:

Ah, thank you, but I'm not looking for something high magic. Actually, most of the games I run and enjoy playing in the most are generally low-magic.


Can't you order it in? The first book, Your Story, is all you really need (Our World has most of the monster profiles, but you can easily make your own).

True, but I'm actually currently not in a country where ordering is an option. I'm in Russia right now.


Glad to be of service. Another beautiful thing about savage worlds is that, like D20, it has a lot of settings that can be bought for it should you ever feel like it, along with an active community behind it, so you'll always have some new stuff, and most of it is free.
Yet another great thing is that SW manages the powerlevel a bit better than D&D. At each step, the players are heroes and can stand their own in their chosen field if you throw level appropriate things at them, but there will be danger. At the beginning, you're a dude who's not bad at what he does, in the end you're a great hero who has mastered his field, but you're not invincible.

This is sounding very much like what my friend told me, which is very reassuring. I do believe (and hope) that Savage Worlds will be THE system. :smallsmile:

GolemsVoice
2012-05-27, 06:45 AM
Tell us how it works for you once you've tried it!

UserClone
2012-05-27, 08:46 AM
I was actually quite serious about Dungeon World. (http://www.dungeon-world.com/) Monte Cook endorses it (https://twitter.com/montejcook/status/195684211993214977), too.

Andreaz
2012-05-27, 10:23 AM
You could try Legends of the Wulin. It's *awesome*

If you're willing to deal with lots of cross-referencing (too much stuff with errata, basically), Exalted is better than all your dreams combined.

ScubaGoomba
2012-05-29, 06:53 AM
Also worth considering, Wizards is doing a limited reprint of 1e AD&D in July. Maybe your group would enjoy playing old D&D? Same type of setting, but the system is so different that it may as well be a different game. Fresh and familiar!

dsmiles
2012-05-29, 07:22 AM
You're probably getting a little tired of my exposition, so I'll get to the point. I'm looking for an alternative system to D&D,a permanent one. Something that is or can be set in the fantasy world, with many options.I recommend Dungeon World (http://www.dungeon-world.com/). I also recommend getting in soon, as the Kickstarter will probably start in a month or so.

Stubbazubba
2012-05-29, 11:59 AM
Ah, thank you, but I'm not looking for something high magic. Actually, most of the games I run and enjoy playing in the most are generally low-magic.

Ah, perfect! I would suggest The One Ring (http://www.cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/the-one-ring/), the new Lord of the Rings RPG. It is very setting specific (though I'm working on a generic fantasy mod which should be playable in a few weeks), so it depends on how much your group would be interested in that. That aside, the system is very well put together, the books are beautiful, and things move pretty quickly. I highly recommend it.

Another very good one I've heard of is Fantasy Craft (http://www.crafty-games.com/product_catalog/fantasycraft) by Crafty Games. It sounds like a very, very versatile game with an emphasis on characters and story-telling. They have multiple published settings, but the rules aren't tied to any of them. It has a lot of support and splatbooks and such, so maybe this is a better system.

I'd say Fantasy Craft fits in a similar niche to Savage Worlds, with flavor of the rules, and both the customization and the splatbook support you're looking for.

Agent 451
2012-05-29, 03:17 PM
But we're looking for something set further back in time, before the age of automatic weapons.

Have you taken a look at the d20 Past supplement for d20 Modern?

horngeek
2012-05-29, 04:03 PM
Ah, perfect! I would suggest The One Ring (http://www.cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/the-one-ring/), the new Lord of the Rings RPG. It is very setting specific (though I'm working on a generic fantasy mod which should be playable in a few weeks), so it depends on how much your group would be interested in that. That aside, the system is very well put together, the books are beautiful, and things move pretty quickly. I highly recommend it.

And it should be noted, The One Ring focuses heavily on the journey component of adventuring in Middle-Earth. If you go for this, for the love of the Valar, don't go 'you travel for x time and arrive', because the rules for travelling are some of the best I've ever seen. It actually gets the entire party to chip into stuff, makes them think about their route, and you have plenty of opportunity for interesting and fitting stuff to happen.

Loxagn
2012-05-30, 08:49 AM
Even if you don't like the setting, Dark Heresy and its relatives are all a lot of fun, and pretty simple to understand too. Our group loves them, largely because of Adeptus Evangelion.

Terraoblivion
2012-05-30, 10:01 AM
You could try Legends of the Wulin. It's *awesome*

As much as I love it, I'm pretty sure the op wants something with less abstracted mechanics, more non-humans and in a much more western setting. At least that was the impression I got. It's an amazing system, my favorite really, but I just don't think that playful kung-fu with abstracted damage mechanics and odd and awesome narrative mechanics is really fitting here.