need help with epic level monk (3.Xe)

[Trolouce]

playing a rather homebrew game a friend is DM'ing he is known to make insane homebrew games, we are in the into of the game, and arent expected to get past it till over ECL 50, i am currently a Human Werewolf Monk 20/ sorcerer 1/ Blade dancer 1/

with my unarmed i am doing 12d8 damage per attack (perminent enlarge, imp. nat. atk (unarmed) ring of greater mighty wallop (CL12) ) but the problem is hitting, my BaB is 16/11/6/1 and my only enhance is str, which is at 22 (+6) without any enhancements. so my FoB is 21/21/21/16/11/6, and trying to hit things even relatively close to my level is ridiculous, last game is just solo'd 4 Zelekhut (inevitable) and it took forever, none of them could hit me, but i could only hit on 2-3 of my attacks in a FoB. then i fought 4 bebilith's and one of them hit me for 1 damage and i ended up just banishing them with my banishing weapon.

whats the point of averaging 300 damage (72d8 on all 6 hits) if i cant even hit them for over half.

i found the scorpion kama item in magic item compendium and he let me put enhancements on top of it (made it a dancing, eager fleshgrinding) but without my greater mighty wallop in effect (+3 effective size catagories for BLUDGEONING weapons maxing at colossal) it only does 6d8 compared to 12d8

i have plenty of money for +10 weapons, and access to epic level spellcasters (only out of combat) but if the only weapon i can find that deals my unarmed is a slashing then thats only half my damage so even if i do make the kama +5 with some enchantments then i would be sacrificing 6d8 damage per hit for +5 chance to hit.

what is the best way i can bring up my attack bonus? while still trying to keep my damage? is there another weapon that deals unarmed damage and it bludgeoning or is there an ability/spell like greater mighty wallop for slashing weapons?

[Trolouce]

i also found a 3.0 weapon Ward Cestus, basically a leather glove with weights, counts as fighting unarmed, but does this count as a monk weapon for being able to FoB?

[Glimbur]

You could get an Amulet of Mighty Fists or, more cost effectively, an Amulet of Natural Attacks from Savage Species for enchanting attacks. You could also get enhancement to hit and damage from spellcasters via either Greater Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Fang.

Also, get a +6 belt of strength. There are probably other helpful items also.

Or you can get an Epic Spell to gain +yes Str via the Fortify seed. Depends how much you want to (ab)use Epic Casting.

[Trolouce]

You could get an Amulet of Mighty Fists or, more cost effectively, an Amulet of Natural Attacks from Savage Species for enchanting attacks. You could also get enhancement to hit and damage from spellcasters via either Greater Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Fang.

Also, get a +6 belt of strength. There are probably other helpful items also.

Or you can get an Epic Spell to gain +yes Str via the Fortify seed. Depends how much you want to (ab)use Epic Casting.

yes, i was planning on the permanency greater magic fang (CL20) havent heard of amulet of natural attacks though, will look that up, and as for belt, i am currently useing belt of battle for the extra full round action (in the plane we are on right now time passes very weirdly, after every battle all our items that have per day uses are all refreshed, but our abilities arent, we have to rest up a while to get them back)

[Trolouce]

i looked into the necklace of natural weapons a bit, and it doesnt seem right that adding a +5 bonus on it would make it still less than half the price of a amulet of mighty fists of the same power, i will have to talk to my DM about allowing it, but it seems like a powerful amulet for so cheep, if he allows it, then ontop of permanency greater magic fang (CL20) it would effectively add a +10 attack and damager per hit, changing my FoB to 31/31/31/26/21/16 wich would definately get me closer to where i want to be, anymore suggestions? (and thanks for the idea for the necklace, never knew about it

[Rickshaw]

if the DM allows 3rd party material, mongoose publishing's quintessential monk iron legs kickboxer+improved crit lets you crit on 15s with unarmed attacks at x3

[Rubik]

Start taking swordsage levels? They're capable of doing things that even epic monks can't. (See: level 1,000 monk vs level 20 wizard -- it's a tossup as to who might lose.)

[Urpriest]

i looked into the necklace of natural weapons a bit, and it doesnt seem right that adding a +5 bonus on it would make it still less than half the price of a amulet of mighty fists of the same power, i will have to talk to my DM about allowing it, but it seems like a powerful amulet for so cheep, if he allows it, then ontop of permanency greater magic fang (CL20) it would effectively add a +10 attack and damager per hit, changing my FoB to 31/31/31/26/21/16 wich would definately get me closer to where i want to be, anymore suggestions? (and thanks for the idea for the necklace, never knew about it

It doesn't stack with Greater Magic Fang for rather obvious reasons. Amulet of Mighty Fists is more expensive because it adds to all natural weapons, Necklace of Natural Weapons makes you pay for each natural weapon separately.

[Eldariel]

You need some way of getting Divine Power. Easiest would be taking a level in Cleric or maxing Use Magic Device or something. It'd give you some reasonable chance to hit. I also trust you've absolutely maximized your To Hit-stat (highest stat, all level-ups, +Max item, 5 Inherent from Tome?). That should be the very first thing you do.

[Gavinfoxx]

There isn't much reason to take so many levels of Monk... It is one of the weakest classes in the game....

Unless, perhaps, are you using this monk fix?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150122

Swap out with Unarmed Swordsage maybe? Or go Tashalatora Monk2/Ardent 18 or Psychic Warrior 18?

If you a.) really really really really want to use the wotc Monk class rather than any of its fixes or patches AND b.) want to use unarmed strikes, then there are some things you can do...

Be a Human Monk of Ilmater (a Forgotten Realms Deity), who focuses on Unarmed Attacks and Wild Shape.

Use Wild Monk in Dragon Magazine #324.

Use Raging Monk, from Dragon Magazine #310. (Get permission for Wild Monk and Raging Monk to combine, they normally don't)

Trade Rage for Whirling Frenzy from the SRD, it is a barbarian ACF.

Use Sacred Strike from Dragon Magazine 346. Choose Ilmater, and Fight with Unarmed Strike. Get permission from the DM for it to work on Natural Attacks as well.

Use the lvl3 Monk Substitution level from Champions of Valor. (Note how that particular substitution does not specifically say it replaces Still Mind, which you already traded out, unlike some other stuff in that book -- it is just a substitution level.)

Use Invisible Fist option from Exemplars of Evil.

Use Resistant Body from Planar Handbook. Choose something that lots of monsters use, like Fire.

Consider trading Resist Nature's Lure with some things taken from the Planar Druid substitution level in Planar Handbook, or the Iron Constitution option in the Cityscape Web Enhancement.

Make sure to pick up the Extra Rage feat from Complete Warrior, for more Whirling Frenzies! Maybe even Extra Smiting from Complete Warrior for more Sacred Strikes.

Make sure to pick up some of the Wild Shape improving feats, like Dragon Wild Shape (Draconomicon), Exalted Wild Shape (Book of Exalted Deeds), Frozen Wild Shape (Frostburn), or even Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species), and Multiattack (SRD/Monster Manual).

For the times where you don't have Pounce or lots of attacks on a standard action (cough Cryohydra) via Wild Shape, you might want to consider the Lion Tribe Warrior feat from the book Shining South. This lets you do a full attack after a charge with one of your weapons -- perhaps Unarmed Strike or Claw or Bite? It depends what form you will be in where you don't have Pounce...

Consider prestige classing out of Monk as soon as possible, even with all of this, maybe Master of Many Forms from Complete Adventurer?

Consider, refluffing Whirling Frenzy as something other than how it is described. Make it a more monk and zen focus sort of thing. Use flaws to pick up more feats if you can. Use Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel, especially the mobility based ones, and the tumbling stuff. Max Tumble. Also pay attention to the extra Skill Tricks in Dragon Magazine #357 when considering your skill tricks.

[Randomguy]

What are your other stats? What feats do you have so far?

Start taking levels in prestige classes that advance your casting, like abjurant champion (for the caster level increase) and maybe enlightened fist.

You've got a huge pile of cash, so get a couple dozen wands of wraithstrike. Use them to make your attacks touch attacks. Touch AC is normally much lower than normal AC.

Spend more money on strength boosts. I recommend a +5 tome of whatever it's called.
Or, if your wisdom is a lot higher than your strength, there's a feat that lets you add your wis to attack rolls in BoED. In fact, you should probably check the X stat Y bonus thread.

There's a spell and weapon enchantment that will solve all your problems with the scorpion Kama: Morphing weapon or the weapon shift spell. Get a +X morphing scorpion Kama and turn it into a nunchaku, so that you can use your ring of mighty wallop on it and still flurry. Weapon shift is a level 1 spell, so you could cast it, but it would only last 1 minute, but it's still good to have as a spell known in case someone hits your weapon with a dispel magic.

[Trolouce]

It doesn't stack with Greater Magic Fang for rather obvious reasons. Amulet of Mighty Fists is more expensive because it adds to all natural weapons, Necklace of Natural Weapons makes you pay for each natural weapon separately.

yeah, i realized that today when i was thinking about it, enhancement bonuses dont stack -.-





What are your other stats? What feats do you have so far?

Start taking levels in prestige classes that advance your casting, like abjurant champion (for the caster level increase) and maybe enlightened fist.

You've got a huge pile of cash, so get a couple dozen wands of wraithstrike. Use them to make your attacks touch attacks. Touch AC is normally much lower than normal AC.

Spend more money on strength boosts. I recommend a +5 tome of whatever it's called.
Or, if your wisdom is a lot higher than your strength, there's a feat that lets you add your wis to attack rolls in BoED. In fact, you should probably check the X stat Y bonus thread.

There's a spell and weapon enchantment that will solve all your problems with the scorpion Kama: Morphing weapon or the weapon shift spell. Get a +X morphing scorpion Kama and turn it into a nunchaku, so that you can use your ring of mighty wallop on it and still flurry. Weapon shift is a level 1 spell, so you could cast it, but it would only last 1 minute, but it's still good to have as a spell known in case someone hits your weapon with a dispel magic.


like i said, monk 20/ sorcerer 1/ blade dancer 1

the only reason i stayed with monk longer than i needed too was that i was leveling to fast to have enouph time to unlock other classes (in this homebrew game you have to buy/unlock classes) by the time i was able to, i was already 17, so i just decided to get it so i would have the +60 ft and the 2d10 unarmed.

my stats are 22/14/16/14/22/11
my feats are dodge, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind, combat reflexes, battle jump, improved nat atk (unarmed) improved initiative, improved ki (epic). (aside from monk bonus feats)

so far the only reason i took sorcerer is to unlock blade dancer (as you need to be able to cast divine or arcane, and the gods in this game are ****ed up)

never heard of weapon shift/morph this might make thing easier. and i forgot about the tomes too. do tomes stack with wishes (as one ability for the wish is to add an inherant bonus to an ability score of 1/wish max at five, must use all at once)

and as for the wraithstrike wand, wraithstrike only lasts 1 round, and wands take a standard action to use, so i would only be able to use it when i use my belt of battle, is there a way to shorten this?

thank you

[Rubik]

the only reason i stayed with monk longer than i needed too was that i was leveling to fast to have enouph time to unlock other classes (in this homebrew game you have to buy/unlock classes) That's called "meeting prerequisites."

[Trolouce]

That's called "meeting prerequisites."

lol if you didnt read above, this is a very HOMEBREW campaign, and to unlock classes the dm is making us use a very rare in-game currency that is homebrew

and the price of unlocking certain things increases as the more people buy it, for example, when i bought balde dancer it cost me 20 achievement points (one of his homebrewed in-game currencies, very rare) and for the next person it will cost around 25 i think. right now due to two people (the only two higher than me) getting templates inherited or not is somewhere around 60-80 AP per 1 level, (one of them is natural werewolf/raksasha/half-celestial, the other is afflicted werewolf/vampire/raskasha/half-fiend)

[Rubik]

lol if you didnt read above, this is a very HOMEBREW campaign, and to unlock classes the dm is making us use a very rare in-game currency that is homebrew

and the price of unlocking certain things increases as the more people buy it, for example, when i bought balde dancer it cost me 20 achievement points (one of his homebrewed in-game currencies, very rare) and for the next person it will cost around 25 i think. right now due to two people (the only two higher than me) getting templates inherited or not is somewhere around 60-80 AP per 1 level, (one of them is natural werewolf/raksasha/half-celestial, the other is afflicted werewolf/vampire/raskasha/half-fiend)That does make druids and artificers MUCH better than they were otherwise.

I'm pretty sure that's a bad idea, especially since it also actively screws over the lower-tier classes that need to multiclass to stay viable. It also screws over anyone who has an actual character they're trying to build that requires multiclassing to flesh out. It makes the strongest classes better, the weakest classes worse, and retards the ability to construct the characters you want to play.

Definitely a bad idea.

[Randomguy]

never heard of weapon shift/morph this might make thing easier. and i forgot about the tomes too. do tomes stack with wishes (as one ability for the wish is to add an inherant bonus to an ability score of 1/wish max at five, must use all at once)

and as for the wraithstrike wand, wraithstrike only lasts 1 round, and wands take a standard action to use, so i would only be able to use it when i use my belt of battle, is there a way to shorten this?
thank you

Tomes and wishes both grant inherent bonuses, so they don't stack. You can have a max of +5 inherent bonus to any stat.

I think there's a rule somewhere that using a wand takes the same action as it takes to cast the spell stored in the wand. Probably in the rules compedium.

[The Glyphstone]

So, crazy houserules aside...

As you're seeing, you have issues attacking things. A Zelekut is CR9, you're ECL27-28 depending on if you're Afflicted or Natural. Not being able to wipe the floor sideways with four CR9 enemies is very, very bad. An item of Divine Power, as was mentioned, would be a literal godsend to your BAB if you can swing it.

[rweird]

Pay for an custom magic item of Wraithstrike (SC), and True Strike continuously, making all your attacks touch attacks, ignore cover, and have a +20 insight bonus to hit, bringing you FoB to +41/+41/+41/+36/+31/+26 and every attack is a touch attack. Cost for a first level and second level spell constantly active is (1*1*2000*4)+(2*3*2000*4*1.5)= 80,000 GP, his item is very easy to dispel however, meaning you should stock up on ways to stop Disjunction/Dispelling. Making them two separate items would decrease the price to 8,000+48,000=56,000 GP.

An item of Divine Power would help some, though only give you +7 to hit and +3 damage overall and cost (7*4*4*2000)=224000 GP, that is a bit on the expensive side in my opinion but I could be very worth while (It would be much better if it didn't cap at +20)

You could use Venomfire shenanigans though that requires you to get your natural attacks poisoned, though it will shoot your damage into the sky.
(If the DM wold allow it)

[tyckspoon]

An item of Divine Power would help some, though only give you +7 to hit and +3 damage overall and cost (7*4*4*2000)=224000 GP, that is a bit on the expensive side in my opinion but I could be very worth while (It would be much better if it didn't cap at +20)


It.. doesn't cap. It sets BAB=Character level. BAB directly gained from levels ends at 20, but that's not a generic limit on how much BAB you can have- dragons, for example, get BAB in the 20s and 30s from their racial hit dice. Divine Power is a pretty good investment for any Epic character, especially if you have any plans to try and stretch the system into multiple Epic levels.

[rweird]

On PHB P. 224. it states: Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (Max +20; this effect may give you additional attack)

The SRD doesn't include the cap, however, I'm not sure which trumps the other in this.

[tyckspoon]

On PHB P. 224. it states: Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (Max +20; this effect may give you additional attack)

The SRD doesn't include the cap, however, I'm not sure which trumps the other in this.

My PHB conforms to the SRD text. *shrug*

[Togo]

The earlier printing of the PHB has the cap, the later one removed it.

The spell raises your BAB to your character level. If you're above character level 20, you're playing epic, and I was under the impression that epic capped BAB at 20 for PCs?

[tyckspoon]

The spell raises your BAB to your character level. If you're above character level 20, you're playing epic, and I was under the impression that epic capped BAB at 20 for PCs?

You no longer gain any more BAB from advancing in level. That's not the same thing as not ever being able to have more than 20 BAB; if you have some effect that modifies your BAB, it can get you over 20. (And monsters are not bound by that 20 cap either, so something like advancing to level 20 in a full-BAB class and then having HD added to you via becoming a Lycanthrope or similar might push you over 20 as well. That's a bit foggy, tho, because HD are generally equivalent to levels for a PC.)

[Trolouce]

That does make druids and artificers MUCH better than they were otherwise.

I'm pretty sure that's a bad idea, especially since it also actively screws over the lower-tier classes that need to multiclass to stay viable. It also screws over anyone who has an actual character they're trying to build that requires multiclassing to flesh out. It makes the strongest classes better, the weakest classes worse, and retards the ability to construct the characters you want to play.

Definitely a bad idea.


hahaha, yes he tends to play like that, he breaks the game, so that we are forced too, and really whoever learns the secrets faster, gets them first, and makes it harder for everyone else, this makes his campaigns get difficult. there are still 3 players that have no idea how to buy classes/templates. and the afflicted werewolf/vampire/raksasha/half-fiend i know has most of her levels in druid, and only really uses finger of death in battles, and i have yet to see it fail.

[Trolouce]

Pay for an custom magic item of Wraithstrike (SC), and True Strike continuously, making all your attacks touch attacks, ignore cover, and have a +20 insight bonus to hit, bringing you FoB to +41/+41/+41/+36/+31/+26 and every attack is a touch attack. Cost for a first level and second level spell constantly active is (1*1*2000*4)+(2*3*2000*4*1.5)= 80,000 GP, his item is very easy to dispel however, meaning you should stock up on ways to stop Disjunction/Dispelling. Making them two separate items would decrease the price to 8,000+48,000=56,000 GP.

An item of Divine Power would help some, though only give you +7 to hit and +3 damage overall and cost (7*4*4*2000)=224000 GP, that is a bit on the expensive side in my opinion but I could be very worth while (It would be much better if it didn't cap at +20)

You could use Venomfire shenanigans though that requires you to get your natural attacks poisoned, though it will shoot your damage into the sky.
(If the DM wold allow it)


i will look into this, but if i remember correctly continuous items mean it just re-casts the spell automatically when the duration is over, so a wraithstrike would be awesome as it lasts 1 round. however a true strike last 1 attack, and i dont think it can re-cast it between every attack in a FoB can it? and although i do have lots of money anything over 100,000 is nearly impossible to get, so i wouldnt be able to get a continuous item of divine power anytime soon, however, it being 4th level i can make a wand out of it, or a 1/day item to make it cheaper, and just cast it while in time stop so that it doesnt waste a turn.

[Gavinfoxx]

You really need to change pretty much all your feats and alternative class features. Can you do my monk 20 build or is the char already in play and unable to be changed? if that is the case, why ask for help at all?

[The Glyphstone]

hahaha, yes he tends to play like that, he breaks the game, so that we are forced too, and really whoever learns the secrets faster, gets them first, and makes it harder for everyone else, this makes his campaigns get difficult. there are still 3 players that have no idea how to buy classes/templates. and the afflicted werewolf/vampire/raksasha/half-fiend i know has most of her levels in druid, and only really uses finger of death in battles, and i have yet to see it fail.

Wut.

Werewolf...LA+2, 3HD.
Vampire...LA +8.
Rakshasa...LA +7, 7HD (7 levels of sorcerer included)
Half-Fiend...LA+3

That player you're describing is at least ECL 45, with the 15 levels of Druid she'd need to cast Finger of Death, or the 7 levels of sorcerer and 8 levels of druid to cast it from Sorcerer slots and still have 'most levels in druid'.

I suggest asking your DM to apply the Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) template, and tell him it's LA +1. It won't actually disrupt your game balance any further at this point.

[rweird]

I will look into this, but if i remember correctly continuous items mean it just re-casts the spell automatically when the duration is over, so a wraithstrike would be awesome as it lasts 1 round. however a true strike last 1 attack, and i dont think it can re-cast it between every attack in a FoB can it? and although i do have lots of money anything over 100,000 is nearly impossible to get, so i wouldnt be able to get a continuous item of divine power anytime soon, however, it being 4th level i can make a wand out of it, or a 1/day item to make it cheaper, and just cast it while in time stop so that it doesnt waste a turn.

In that case make it use activated, it doesn't change the price and make the activation attacking. For divine power, if you want to make it 1/day, make it Persisted Extended Divine power and make it 1/two days, (CL 15) for a cost of 10800 GP and you only need to use the command word 1/two days. The problem once again is dispelling and disjunctions.

Cost Calculations for Divine Power Item:
CL * Spell Level: 15*8= 120
Command Word Activated: 120*1800=216000
Cost/10 for charge, 1/two days: 216000/10=21600
Over 24 hour duration (divide price by 2): 21600/2=10800 GP.

[animewatcha]

Any chance that the whole costs/reqs of everything can be posted here. Purpose being so character can be 're-built' from ground up. Or heck, just change to wizard 20+x and just break the game to get him to ease up on some homebrew aspects?

[The Glyphstone]

Any chance that the whole costs/reqs of everything can be posted here. Purpose being so character can be 're-built' from ground up. Or heck, just change to wizard 20+x and just break the game to get him to ease up on some homebrew aspects?

Bet you an internet the DM just makes it up as he goes along.

[animewatcha]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Also, would like to know precisely what the most common type of mob you guys are facing size category-wise. If somewhere around small to large size, then please find out how much 'points' / if-you-can-retrain Half-mino template, monk of the enabled hand ( drag comp + drag comp errata ), and animal-shen-mantis would cost. Getting the divine power doohickey would obviously help, but this is mainly toward 'what is their touch ac' and 'what is their str mod'. Also, 'cost' versus the dragon mag variants in 310 and styles in 309.