(PF) When The Dice Hate You

[ChimingCopper]

My friend's dice hate her. :smallfrown:

I mean it. Rolling above a 10 is cause for celebration. We've done out the statistics, swapped out dice, rebuilt characters, and it is becoming incredibly frustrating for her to play, because in combat, her character cannot do anything. In our last game, she needed to roll above a 6 to hit. 4, 4, 5, 3...and then the combat was over.

She doesn't like playing support characters, prefers non-spellcasters, and would really like nothing more than to be a fighter. But the dice won't support it. It is not a couple of bad games. We play nearly every weekend and this problem has persisted through a year, with several dice and character changes. I mean, I've heard Warlock or something relies less on dice rolls, but it's just not a class I think she'd enjoy.

What do you do in a situation like this?

[Grail]

Try a dice rolling app like Dicebag or something for a smartphone.

A friend of mine has a very cool saying. "Dice don't have a memory, but they do have a sense of humour."

This is probably true for your friend.

[Blisstake]

Well, if you're playing a non-spellcaster, you pretty much need to roll to-hit rolls a lot. Honestly, the best solution I can think of is playing a caster that forces your enemies to make the rolls instead of you.

At the same time, there really isn't a such thing as luck. If this is a persistent problem, try swapping sets; it could be that hers are weighted to favor lower numbers (dice usually have some degree of being weighted when they're manufactured, or so I've been told).

[Rubik]

Well, if you're playing a non-spellcaster, you pretty much need to roll to-hit rolls a lot. Honestly, the best solution I can think of is playing a caster that forces your enemies to make the rolls instead of you.

At the same time, there really isn't a such thing as luck. If this is a persistent problem, try swapping sets; it could be that hers are weighted to favor lower numbers (dice usually have some degree of being weighted when they're manufactured, or so I've been told).Basically this.

I know you said it's a persistent problem and that she's swapped out dice a few times, but it's basically happenstance. Maybe have someone else roll for her?

[zorenathres]

i played warhamer 40k before i started hombrewing & stuff, & rolled so many d6's that we began to make our own theories. not that these are proven or anything, but the edges of the dice & the surface you roll on can make a huge difference. softer/ rounder edges & a soft playmat have always resulted in higher rolls for me (much to the disdain of my GM's). i used to roll dice on a hardcover & almost threw the book out the window at all the abysmal rolls i got as a newb...

anyway thats my personal experience is all, try it out for yourself & see how it goes.

[grarrrg]

My friend's dice hate her. :smallfrown:
...
What do you do in a situation like this?

Step 1: Make a Paladin
Step 2: Name it Sameo (http://www.funnydndstories.com/apps/blog/show/3432504-sameo)
Step 3: ????
Step 4: PROFIT!!

[sol_kanar]

You could go for crazy optimization of melee (e.g. a charger) and have attacks that only miss with 1. A medium-level Duskblade can cast True Strike (+20 to hit) as a swift action and then launch a powerful blow with Power Attack to the max.

Or is this too much?

[RndmNumGen]

Swap values, so a 6 is a 16 and a 16 is a 6?

[doko239]

Step 1: Be a Paladin of Iomedae.

Step 2: Take 3 levels of Inheritor's Crusader (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/classesPrestige.htm#inheritors-crusader) and the Fatigued mercy power.

Step 3: Profit.

At 3rd level, an Inheritor's Crusader gets Sword Against Injustice:

Sword Against Injustice (Su): At 3rd level, a crusader may use his power to judge the guilty and absolve the innocent. As a standard action he may announce he is bringing Iomedae’s judgment upon a target who is accused of a crime, lie, or other affront to justice; the crusader makes a melee attack with his sword against the target as part of this judgment. If the target is innocent of what he is accused, the attack stops just short of striking him, as if hitting an invisible wall; if the target is guilty, the attack automatically hits with a flash of white light. This attack requires no attack roll and cannot critically hit. If the target is protected by an effect that inhibits divinations (such as mind blank), the attack bounces off the target with an unpleasant metallic hiss, like quenching a red-hot blade in water. The crusader may use this ability once per day; each additional use beyond the first drains him, causing him to become fatigued. He cannot use this class ability if he is exhausted. He may expend a use of channel energy or lay on hands while activating this ability to prevent fatigue. Sometimes people wrongly accused of great crimes beg for the intercession of an Inheritor’s crusader, knowing this power will exonerate them.
By RAW, if you use a free action in combat to accuse your opponent of a crime you know they are guilty of, you can spend a standard action to get an automatic hit on that target, then spend a swift action to Lay on Hands yourself and remove the fatigue. Mmmmm, that's good cheese :smallbiggrin:

[Zaq]

For as long as you're comfortable with (I'd suggest at least 3-4 sessions, if you can do it in such a way that doesn't bog down play too much), every time you make a d20 roll, write down what it was for (attack, initiative, Fort save, specific skill check, etc.), the unmodified result, and whether it was a success or failure (for rolls like initiative, the last bit obviously doesn't much apply). When I have a real streak of bad luck with dice, I find doing this makes me feel better for two reasons, one of which is practical and one of which is superstitious.

On a superstitious level, I feel like gathering all the data can "shame" the dice into getting their collective acts together. They're not just messing around anymore. They're on trial, being judged.

On a practical level, it lets you get a decent sample set to really see just how bad your rolls are. Did you REALLY roll more 4s than is to be expected? Is it really true that you never rolled above a 12 for three games running, or did you just never roll better than 12 when you really wanted to? Did your low rolls tend to be the important ones (attacks, saves, etc.), or were there just two or three such examples that stuck out in your memory? This lets you get a little bit of distance from the results, giving you the chance to be somewhat more objective about the whole thing. I would say that you definitely need a few nights to do this, though. One night won't cut it.

If, after doing this for several weeks, the data shows that you really DO roll a lot lower than average, get some new dice and do it again. You might also get a friend to roll for you for a night or two. Either way, keep recording the results (obviously keeping them separate from your original data set), and see if the problem persists. If it turns out that your dice were rolling about average, but the good rolls came when you didn't need them and the bad rolls came when you were least equipped to handle them, well, that's how luck works, and if you're tired of it, you can either tough it out or switch to a character who rolls as few dice as possible, usually a caster.

[DefKab]

There's a whole bunch of material based on the Soul of the Dice.
First thing one should note is that Dice DO have a soul, and they have two emotions.

The first is respect. Your dice are yours your own, and deserve to be treated as such. It takes a while for a purchased set to get used to being rolled, and can help to 'bond' with your dice over a few games. But once they are your own, they grow Jealous. Others dice, and surely others using your dice all grow dissent within your dice. Be faithful and true, and they will too.

The second is FEAR. When your dice don't respect you, you can always make them fear you. As with anything, false threats mean nothing. Find a punishment, and stick with it. I find that sticking dice in a microwave for a small amount of time does wonders as an attitude adjustment. Anything from 3-10 seconds should be enough, and you'll better rolling some fresh, warm dice.

No matter your approach to the souls of the Rolling, you need to supplement it through your rolling habits. If you want your dice to love you, support them. Get them a special bag, felt and soft. Roll on a special felt surface made just for rolling (dice trays), and always make sure they're comfortable.
Use the opposite approach for the unruly. (Or, unrolly). Hard surfaces, cramped dice boxes, mingling with the 'lesser' dice (D12's, I'm looking at you) are all ways to assure them that YOU are the gaming boss.

Hopefully, following the heart of the dice will direct you to an approach that will get your dice rolling 20's for you in rapid advancement.

[Khosan]

If you're willing to put some time into it, you might consider buying a pound of dice and then just testing all the d20s held within until you find a 'good one'. Physical die will not have a random distribution from 1-20, varying based on how rounded certain edges are and density and all that stuff.

I think the pound of dice my brother sent me had...something like 12 d20s or so in it.

If you're unwilling to actually spend money, one option is to make some houserules in her favor. Maybe something like points that she gains whenever she rolls poorly that she can spend to reroll or change the value of the roll.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Give her fixed dice. :smalltongue: Seriously though, Khosan's got a good idea.

[Benly]

First off: I echo Zaq's suggestion that she keep a complete record of all her d20 rolls for a few sessions. "Curses" like this tend to go into hiding in the face of statistical recordkeeping. :smallsmile:

Unfortunately, if you want to play a character where no die roll is required to succeed, you need to be a spellcaster, either using battlefield control (things like walls and Solid Fog work fine without any die rolls) or buffs (which don't require a die roll to succeed.) If she doesn't want to do either of those, there are basically two other options: either something that can succeed on very low rolls, something that forces the enemy to make the rolls instead (thus divorcing it from her "curse"), or both.

What comes to mind for a non-casting character to take advantage of those is the feat Pinpoint Poisoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pinpoint-poisoner-combat). It's a slightly tricky feat to qualify for, but a rogue with Pinpoint Poisoner can be very effective even with low d20 rolls. The important part is that it lets you make damaging touch attacks with the blowgun darts even after the poison has worn off; a rogue with high dexterity and Weapon Finesse making touch attacks can hit a lot of enemies even on a 3 or 4, and the bigger and tougher an enemy is, the easier it usually is to hit with touch attacks. As a bonus, the poison's saving throw is rolled by the target rather than the attacker.

For a character to use with it, I would recommend a vishkanya (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/vishkanya) rogue or ninja. Since vishkanya have natural Poison Use they can qualify a rogue more easily, they have great rogue or ninja stats, and they get a few free doses of level-scaling poison per day to use.

[demigodus]

Swap values, so a 6 is a 16 and a 16 is a 6?

This idea could work.

nat 1's are nat 20's
nat 2's are nat 19's
nat 3's are nat 17's

etc.

If she always rolls low, she will always roll high. Other then that, you could try optimizing to have insanely high attack rolls.

[bassic_camel]

Another option is something like these:
www.gamescience.com
Precision dice that are engineered to be truly random. Not all dice are created equal, of course.

[RndmNumGen]

Another option is something like these:
www.gamescience.com
Precision dice that are engineered to be truly random. Not all dice are created equal, of course.

I bought a pound of those, and wasn't very impressed. A lot of the translucent dice had air bubbles in them, which obviously would impact the rolling, and I'm sure some of the opaques probably did too. Most of the D4s and D6s were 'warped' as well, though the D8s, D10s and D12s looked good.

[Gavinfoxx]

Get Gamescience dice, or better yet, Casino dice for your D6's and Gamescience for everything that isn't a D6!

[StreamOfTheSky]

I've tried to find houserules to address this issue. I've thought of the reversed rolls one (ie, a 1 is a 20, a 2 is a 19, etc...), and it's fine if you just make a quick reference table for it. Having a friend roll the dice for her might also help. A more complicated solution could be this:

1. Give her 20 cards / index cards, numbered 1-20. Keep them in order (for ease of finding)
2. When she rolls a # on the d20, she puts the corresponding card into a new pile.
3. If the # rolled is already out of her hand, reroll the d20 until an unused # is rolled (towards the end of each cycle, mght be more efficient to just switch to a smaller die type to finish out the remaining options)
4. When all 20 cards are used up, take the hand back in full and repeat.

Special: No intentionally rolling d20 for no real purpose just to try and clear out some of the low numbers for a later more important roll (up to DM's discretion to enforce; certain d20 rolls he might declare to not apply to the cards system and fall as they may due to unimportance or something)


Basically hard codes the d20 to actually give an even distribution of 1-20.

[grarrrg]

1. Give her 20 cards / index cards, numbered 1-20. Keep them in order (for ease of finding)
2. When she rolls a # on the d20, she puts the corresponding card into a new pile.
3. If the # rolled is already out of her hand, reroll the d20 until an unused # is rolled (towards the end of each cycle, mght be more efficient to just switch to a smaller die type to finish out the remaining options)
4. When all 20 cards are used up, take the hand back in full and repeat.

Or you could just, you know, shuffle the cards together and draw one off the top...

Either way, recommend having multiple sets going from 1-to-20 to help prevent "knowing" what the next roll is going to be. 2 Decks of playing cards and a Sharpie will get you 5 sets.

[Deadlights]

Sounds to me like someone just needs to buy a new set of dice. (http://www.shapeways.com/model/126266/thorn-dice-set-with-decader.html)

[avr]

It's possible to get stuck rolling the same number repeatedly if you roll the die exactly the same way each time. That's much easier with a d4, d6 or d8 than a d20 though.

So, I'd try Zaq's answer first.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Destroy all her dice and any dice they have come into contact with
Get new dice
Pre-roll all the 1's out
Kill a fatted calf for the Random Number God, or pour out a pepsi as an obeisance
????
Profit!

[Crasical]

This is pathfinder, right? Have you considered converting to the worship of Abadar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/measured-response-combat)?

[Killer Angel]

Step 1: Make a Paladin
Step 2: Name it Sameo (http://www.funnydndstories.com/apps/blog/show/3432504-sameo)
Step 3: ????
Step 4: PROFIT!!

I believe the only good thing 'bout critical failure tables, are these funny, improbable stories...

[StreamOfTheSky]

Or you could just, you know, shuffle the cards together and draw one off the top...

You could do that, too. :smallsmile: Some people just seem to like the feeling of rolling a die for reasons I don't understand.

[Kudaku]

Consistently rolling badly? Buy the fumble pack! At least you'll get a good laugh :smallbiggrin:

[Waddacku]

Have you made sure she's actually rolling the dice well? You can get a lot of skewed results from bad technique. If she's just dropping them sideways onto the surface it might just be a lack of proper randomization.

[Larpus]

Yeah...sounds like my party's Bard...he's a Witch now...so yeah, if the dices really hate you...make the DM roll instead.

But seriously, just repeating what everyone said so far actually, rolling technique as dumb as it sounds can go a long way between actual random numbers and getting the same number over and over.

Other than that, computer-based rollers are also an option, since they're based on programming they're usually more mercilessly randomic in their rolls, which can be both good and bad; I mean, everyone has their..."techniques" for lack of a better word for getting better numbers, even if they're complete bogus rituals (mine involves saying out loud "I trust in the heart of dices" or "the world belongs to the fearless" before rolling...yeah).

[Wagadodo]

If you are looking for a class that only needs a touch attack to hit might think about going into Gunslinger class. The first range increment hits against the enenmies touch attack AC, so low rolls do not hurt as much as if you are going after the big regular AC.

Unless she of course always rolls 1's. But then again there are Grit features that can help you avoid the mishaps of rolling a 1.

[Baron Corm]

You can always let her roll 3d6 instead of d20. It produces more average results, and is actually a legal variant from Unearthed Arcana: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm

They also list a spell which lets you roll 4d6, drop the lowest instead of 3d6 on rolls. You could give this to her automatically, and it would guarantee much less frustration.

[Karoht]

I empathize. Never rolling above an 8 when trying to make DC30+ saves? Not fun.

In the case of D20's, there are 'countdown' dice or so I'm told? They don't have quite the same number distribution on them or somesuch? Make sure she isn't rolling those.

Second, if she's rolling a D20, get her to do it with a crazy amount of backspin. Underhanded 'throw' as it were, with as much 'roll' towards the player as humanly possible. I found that this helped my results trend higher. I was the guy that could never roll above 10 for about 6 months (seriously, 4 sessions, every roll was a 5 or a 3, that sucked), then I started doing this and found that I got a much better spread.

If that doesn't work, bounce the dice off of something. I sometimes bounce mine off the DM screen if it is stable enough to do so.

Lastly, you could come up with some kind of 'mulligan' rule where she can take the average result, but only a certain number of times per session. The average result will usually not be all that impressive. On 2D6 for example, the average roll is 7 if I'm not mistaken. You would have to look it up.

[SSGoW]

Well I would say that I feel bad for her and give some advice... However I 90% of the time roll 11 or higher on a d20 soooo I know whose luck I'm stealing now....

Well... Dice rollers always give me a 5 or less on a D20, I fricken hate programs...

Have her play a warblade focused on diamond mind. Give her a +15 to concentration check item. 1d20 + 15 should hit flat footed or normal AC when rolling 5's and 6's

3dit: So that she doesn't feel like she is getting special treatment... Give every player 1 skill item (survival, tumble, jump, climp, religion, etc etc). Also this helps keeping everyone in around the same wealth.

[Vladislav]

Make sure she's rolling the right type of die. I had a player who rolled d12 for his attacks for half of a session, without noticing it. He was seated at the far side of the table from me, so I didn't notice either.

[Tyndmyr]

My friend's dice hate her. :smallfrown:

I mean it. Rolling above a 10 is cause for celebration. We've done out the statistics, swapped out dice, rebuilt characters, and it is becoming incredibly frustrating for her to play, because in combat, her character cannot do anything. In our last game, she needed to roll above a 6 to hit. 4, 4, 5, 3...and then the combat was over.

She doesn't like playing support characters, prefers non-spellcasters, and would really like nothing more than to be a fighter. But the dice won't support it. It is not a couple of bad games. We play nearly every weekend and this problem has persisted through a year, with several dice and character changes. I mean, I've heard Warlock or something relies less on dice rolls, but it's just not a class I think she'd enjoy.

What do you do in a situation like this?

Use a deck of cards with numbers ranging from 1 to 20. This can be easily made from a standard deck of cards by using A-10 of two suits and declaring one to be higher(or all four suits, but declaring red higher than black).

You are then guaranteed to have a proper distribution, while still getting decent randomness on individual results.

[Tvtyrant]

Squirt lemons in the dice's eyes. That will show them. :P

[demigodus]

What level do you guys normally play at? There is a crusader stance that lets you take 11 on any d20 roll once a round... sadly it is a level 6 stance, so wouldn't work for low level play.

[SSGoW]

What level do you guys normally play at? There is a crusader stance that lets you take 11 on any d20 roll once a round... sadly it is a level 6 stance, so wouldn't work for low level play.


95% of martial problems can be solved by Tome of Battle...

[Rubik]

What about the exemplar PrC, combined with some ToB goodness (for the aforementioned stance)? Take 10 on damned near everything. Add in a level of changeling ACF rogue (from Races of Eberron) and basically you can take 10 all the time any time.

[SSGoW]

What level do you guys normally play at? There is a crusader stance that lets you take 11 on any d20 roll once a round... sadly it is a level 6 stance, so wouldn't work for low level play.


95% of martial problems can be solved by Tome of Battle...

[Rubik]

What about the exemplar PrC, combined with some ToB goodness (for the aforementioned stance)? Take 10 on damned near everything. Add in a level of changeling ACF rogue (from Races of Eberron) and basically you can take 10 all the time any time.

[SSGoW]

What about the exemplar PrC, combined with some ToB goodness (for the aforementioned stance)? Take 10 on damned near everything. Add in a level of changeling ACF rogue (from Races of Eberron) and basically you can take 10 all the time any time.

I kinda want to play that...