Action Economy Abuse Help

[demigodus]

So I'm playing a bard 4/Crusader 3 in my game, where we just leveled. I'm looking to take Marshal, then Warblade at level 9, and then go back to leveling Crusader to progress my bardic music.

Between the spell Inspirational Boost, and White Raven tactics, my character is pretty good at making use of swift actions in combat. Once he takes Warblade, using swift actions most round of combat to do something should get even easier. Standard actions are already used to activate maneuvers, or for bardic music.

However, I haven't really found a use for my move action, other then actually moving, or whenever I charge (which, since I have low strength, I do worse at then when our monk full attacks). So my question is, how can I put my move actions to better user. Are there any maneuvers, spells, or bardic abilities I could be activating as move actions?

Also, as a slight tangent on stuff in ToB I'm not perfectly clear on, do White Raven maneuvers I have from Crusader qualify for requirements for White Raven maneuvers for Warblade? Can I take White Raven tactics as a Warblade if I have White Raven tactics through Crusader? And can I only be in one stance total, or one stance per initiator class?

[Vladislav]

Look in MIC for many nifty items that can be activated as a move action.

[Jeff the Green]

Also, as a slight tangent on stuff in ToB I'm not perfectly clear on, do White Raven maneuvers I have from Crusader qualify for requirements for White Raven maneuvers for Warblade?
Yes.

And can I only be in one stance total, or one stance per initiator class?
One stance total, otherwise the Warblade Capstone wouldn't be all that great.

As for what to do with move actions, I'm not all that sure. If you have a decent Intimidate modifier you could grab the fearsome armor enchantment (+5,000, DoTU) to demoralize as a move action

[demigodus]

Look in MIC for many nifty items that can be activated as a move action.

My DM doesn't really like the MIC. He considers the items there to be underpriced compared to what they should be. Though I still haven't spent half my gold, so I might be able to convince him to let me buy some of them for a higher price.

Any particular ones you might recommend for a buffing oriented Bard-thing?


Yes.

One stance total, otherwise the Warblade Capstone wouldn't be all that great.

Thank you.


As for what to do with move actions, I'm not all that sure. If you have a decent Intimidate modifier you could grab the fearsome armor enchantment (+5,000, DoTU) to demoralize as a move action

I have 0 ranks in intimidate, though I might start working on that then.

[Endarire]

Ye Tome of Battle has the Shadow Hands item, which can grant you use of Shadow Stride, a 50' extraordinary move action teleport that requires line of sight and line of effect.

As for the underpricedness of MIC items, see the developers' thoughts on magic items (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070302a). (Parts 2 and 3 are linked at the bottom of that article.)

So unless your GM is giving out ludicrous amounts of wealth, the MIC items are fine.

[Togo]

Can you get access to Harmonise, greater. It's in Races of Stone, and allows you to start (and maintain) a bardsong as a move action. However, it's a 4th level spell, so you won't see much of it unless you can get it as an item or scroll.

[demigodus]

Ye Tome of Battle has the Shadow Hands item, which can grant you use of Shadow Stride, a 50' extraordinary move action teleport that requires line of sight and line of effect.

As for the underpricedness of MIC items, see the developers' thoughts on magic items (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070302a). (Parts 2 and 3 are linked at the bottom of that article.)

So unless your GM is giving out ludicrous amounts of wealth, the MIC items are fine.

Eh, when I discussed with him before, his issue was that if a book was going to rewrite how magic items are priced, it should state so, not claim to be a compendium of magic items. He doesn't like how the stated goal and actual goal of the book differ. I didn't really argue at the time, because I figured it wouldn't be too bad. Besides, it isn't a blanket ban, just need to run each item by him.

The Shadow Hand item seems interesting, though I'm noticing that items that use move actions seem to have some sort of travel effect in general. Which could be useful I guess, in case my bard doesn't feel like walking...

Still though, I'm looking for something other than stuff that places me from point A to point B. This bard isn't all that useful in damage and can't buff/trip/disarm, so getting up in enemies' faces doesn't do much. Something that lets me, say, convert a move action to a swift action would be awesome though.


Can you get access to Harmonise, greater. It's in Races of Stone, and allows you to start (and maintain) a bardsong as a move action. However, it's a 4th level spell, so you won't see much of it unless you can get it as an item or scroll.

hmmmm, should be possible, though I would have to use items for sure. What is the most cost efficient magic item for using 4th level spells? I know it is wands for level 3 and lower, but that is about all I know. I'm not too familiar with items.

[tyckspoon]

Eh, when I discussed with him before, his issue was that if a book was going to rewrite how magic items are priced, it should state so, not claim to be a compendium of magic items. He doesn't like how the stated goal and actual goal of the book differ. I didn't really argue at the time, because I figured it wouldn't be too bad. Besides, it isn't a blanket ban, just need to run each item by him.


:smallconfused: It *does* state so. It's pretty clear in the intro sections, and there's sidebars and designer commentary all through the MIC about exactly why a lot of items became less expensive (and certain previous excessively good deals became more expensive or limited, such as the Parrying weapon property and the Torc of Power Preservation.)

[kulosle]

I'd say start taking levels in War Weaver. It activates it's tapestry as a move action. Although you would only do that once per battle but it's still worth it.

[Morph Bark]

I'd say start taking levels in War Weaver. It activates it's tapestry as a move action. Although you would only do that once per battle but it's still worth it.

While War Weaver is insanely good and I recommend it on so many arcane casters, this is not a good case here, since he has so few levels in Bard and the Bard spell list does not lend itself so well to War Weaver.

[Darrin]

So my question is, how can I put my move actions to better user. Are there any maneuvers, spells, or bardic abilities I could be activating as move actions?


From an older thread, things you can do with a move action:

Cloak Dance (XPH): gain concealment
Shrouded Dance (CSc, Skill Trick): DC 20 hide check, gain concealment
Improved Feint (PHB): yeah, I know, waste of an action
Goad (MiniHB): lousier version of Knight's Challenge
Handle Animal: direct an animal to perform a trick it knows
Direct a spell, such as spiritual weapon (Hammersphere) or unseen servant (Collar of Perpetual Attendance (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c))
Shadow Stride (ToB, SSg 5): 50' teleport, no prereqs
Order Forged From Chaos (ToB, Cru/War 6): all allies get to move
Soulsight (MoI): Blindsense 5'/essentia
Landshark Books (MoI, Bound to Feet Chakra): Limited tremorsense, 10' + 5'/essentia
Fearsome Armor: Demoralize an enemy. With Imperious Command and Never Outnumbered, this can make everyone within 10 ft of you Cower.
Extraordinary Concentration: Maintain Concentration on a spell (Call Lightning, Storm of Elemental Fury, etc).
Improved Diversion: Can create a diversion (allowing you to Hide).
Winged Warrior: Create a cloud of concealment.
Earth Sense or Hear the Unseen: Pinpoint locations of enemies.
Quickdraw: Draw a hidden weapon.
Rapid Reload: Reload a heavy crossbow (potentially useful at very low levels).
Woodland Archer feat: Snipe and Hide repeatedly.
Ki Blast: Make a force orb you can throw at your enemy.
Dimension Door: Variety of ways you can do this as a Move Action.


Cloak Dance might be the easiest solution, and your Bard levels mean Hide and Perform are class skills, but if you don't have 10 ranks in Hide already then ask your DM if you can retrain or pay for a psychic reformation.

Otherwise, grab a Hammersphere (1500 GP, MIC, but if your DM doesn't like the MIC, it's also available in the A&EG for 2500 GP) and a Collar of Perpetual Attendance (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c).

[Cor1]

Just to say, the items in the MIC are that cheap because they suck. Torc of Power Preservation, a standard item for every psionic character ever, limited to 5/day? Okay, it's cheaper - and totally useless.