Are Cheshire Cats a playable Race?

[White_Drake]

Are Cheshire Cats (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) a playable race? Because if they are, I'm totally playing one; if you play a sorcerer you basically don't have LA.

[kardar233]

Yes they are playable, as evidenced by having a Level Adjustment. You still have 3HD to deal with, so you'll be 3 levels of casting below a sorcerer of your level.

[ngilop]

You do realize that articale as an april fools one.. right?

[Anecronwashere]

Yes they are playable, as evidenced by having a Level Adjustment. You still have 3HD to deal with, so you'll be 3 levels of casting below a sorcerer of your level.

Offset by the 3rd level Sorc casting.
You would be squishy but you don't take a hit there.

[kardar233]

No, it's Level Adjustment +3, meaning that you're going to be in a party with 6th-level characters with only 3rd-level casting.

[Anecronwashere]

No, it's Level Adjustment +3, meaning that you're going to be in a party with 6th-level characters with only 3rd-level casting.

6th level?
Sorc3/Cat3 = 6Sorc Casting
You would only have 3 Hit Dice but thats fine

[Daftendirekt]

No, it's Level Adjustment +3, meaning that you're going to be in a party with 6th-level characters with only 3rd-level casting.

Right, but it says in the article that Cheshire Cats cast spells as a 3rd level sorcerer.

"Spells: A Cheshire cat casts spells as a 3rd-level sorcerer. It prefers illusions and enchantments but avoids necromancy spells."

I'm not sure what the RAW is on that, but I'm sure the DM could easily say that sorcerer levels taken would simply advance that sorcerer casting and not start from scratch.

[RedWarlock]

Yeah, but the RHD plus LA still makes a total ECL of 6, before adding any other class levels. It's a 3rd level sorcerer's spellcasting, with 3 hit dice, and an additional +3 of level adjustment on top. When he takes an actual level of sorcerer, he'll have 4th level sorc spells, but be a total character level of 7.

[Lonely Tylenol]

6th level?
Sorc3/Cat3 = 6Sorc Casting
You would only have 3 Hit Dice but thats fine

Not quite:
Cheshire Cat 3/Level Adjustment 3 = 3 Sorceror casting
At 7th, it would be:
Cheshire Car 3/Sorc 1/Level Adjustment 3 = 4 Sorceror casting

[Uncle Pine]

Not quite:
Cheshire Cat 3/Level Adjustment 3 = 3 Sorceror casting
At 7th, it would be:
Cheshire Car 3/Sorc 1/Level Adjustment 3 = 4 Sorceror casting
This is definitely how it works.
However, if you dont like LA so much, you could give up some benefits and play a tibbit sorcerer that resembles a chesire cat.
Tibbit is a race from Dragon #135, or Dragon Compendium. A tibbit is something very similar to a werecat, but it doesn't has hybrid form, racial HDs, LA and all those problems that lycanthropes usually have.

[Crasical]

This is definitely how it works.
However, if you dont like LA so much, you could give up some benefits and play a tibbit sorcerer that resembles a chesire cat.
Tibbit is a race from Dragon #135, or Dragon Compendium. A tibbit is something very similar to a werecat, but it doesn't has hybrid form, racial HDs, LA and all those problems that lycanthropes usually have.

You also lose the at-will invisibility.

[TheGeckoKing]

This is definitely how it works.
However, if you dont like LA so much, you could give up some benefits and play a tibbit sorcerer that resembles a chesire cat.
Tibbit is a race from Dragon #135, or Dragon Compendium. A tibbit is something very similar to a werecat, but it doesn't has hybrid form, racial HDs, LA and all those problems that lycanthropes usually have.

May I add that if you want a Cheshire Cat feel, you might want to go with an Unseelie Fey Tibbit Beguiler. Or a Beguiler Beguiler.

[Elfinor]

Or a Beguiler Beguiler.With a Beguiler familiar, naturally:smallbiggrin:

[TuggyNE]

With a Beguiler familiar, naturally:smallbiggrin:

Someone please tell me there is a template with "Beguile" in the name! :smallbiggrin:

[Uncle Pine]

You also lose the at-will invisibility.
Actually, I don't think that anyone would see a little cat as a threat. Before he casts its first spell, of course. During the combat, you could use a greater invisibility spell, which any stealthy sorcerer would take anyway.
Look, I know that being a floating smile is quite cheesy, but that LA seems quite restrictant.

[gorfnab]

Someone please tell me there is a template with "Beguile" in the name! :smallbiggrin:
Not that I know of, but if you take a level of Warlock you could have a Beguiling (Beguiling Influence Invocation) Beguiler Beguiler.

[Agent 451]

...and not start from scratch.

Regardless of whether or not you intended that, it was nice. :P

[Answerer]

With LA buyoff, you'd get to Cheshire Cat Sorcerer 17 (20th-level Sorcerer casting) by ECL 20, though you'll hit ECL 20 considerably after the rest of your party.

[Lateral]

Not that I know of, but if you take a level of Warlock you could have a Beguiling (Beguiling Influence Invocation) Beguiler Beguiler.

...as a cohort. They're cohort-only. WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP FORGETTING THIS.

[Zombulian]

...as a cohort. They're cohort-only. WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP FORGETTING THIS.

BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE TRUE!

I second Tibbit and support Changelings for the idea you are going for. But then you have to be a dirty Changeling... ew.

[gorfnab]

...as a cohort. They're cohort-only. WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP FORGETTING THIS.
Because they are fun to play as a PC.

[Snowbluff]

BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE TRUE!

I second Tibbit and support Changelings for the idea you are going for. But then you have to be a dirty Changeling... ew.

Lolololol... :smallbiggrin:

Tibbits are a lot of fun to play. DFA Tibbit is something I did for laughs, but it's so much fun. I'm going into Mind Bender. :smallsmile:

Surrogate Casting would help with not having a voice or well... hands. Warlocks and DFA's are good if your DM say Invocations have no Somatic components (SLAs normally don't :smallmad:). They both learn can get an invisibility invocation at 6.

[Andorax]

Someone please tell me there is a template with "Beguile" in the name! :smallbiggrin:

Not that I know of, but if you want a truly awful mashup, consider:


In D20 Everquest, Barbarian is a race.

D20 Diablo II had its own Barbarian class, different from the PHB one.

So if an EQ Barbarian were to multiclass between the PHB Barbarian and the Diablo Barbarian...

...and then come in, as an outsider, to an Oriental Adventurers campaign...


He'd be a Barbarian Barbarian Barbarian/Barbarian.

[Answerer]

Not that I know of, but if you want a truly awful mashup, consider:


In D20 Everquest, Barbarian is a race.

D20 Diablo II had its own Barbarian class, different from the PHB one.

So if an EQ Barbarian were to multiclass between the PHB Barbarian and the Diablo Barbarian...

...and then come in, as an outsider, to an Oriental Adventurers campaign...


He'd be a Barbarian Barbarian Barbarian/Barbarian.
The barbarians in Diablo II (and to a much lesser extent from what I can tell, the travesty that Blizzard insists on calling Diablo III) were a class in the metagame sense, but were more properly a (sub?)race since all hailed from the same region and their fighting style was a part of the culture from that region. Same is true of the Amazons and Druids. The Assassins, Necromancers, Paladins, and Sorceresses, on the other hand, were members of certain orders with at least some ethnic diversity (though not depicted as such in the game).

I have not followed the travesty as closely, but the Witch Doctors, at least, are also more of a racial thing than a class thing (though it's more of a combination since not all of the people from that region, or even all of the warriors or spellcasters, are witch doctors), and the Barbarian is more or less the same as before. The Demon Hunter, Monk, and Wizard are all more diverse.

[Zombulian]

Lolololol... :smallbiggrin:

Tibbits are a lot of fun to play. DFA Tibbit is something I did for laughs, but it's so much fun. I'm going into Mind Bender. :smallsmile:

Surrogate Casting would help with not having a voice or well... hands. Warlocks and DFA's are good if your DM say Invocations have no Somatic components (SLAs normally don't :smallmad:). They both learn can get an invisibility invocation at 6.

Hey I remember you commenting on my post about DFA's going into Mindbender!:smallbiggrin: I did a Beguiler DFA and it was hilarious. I roleplayed Momo from Avatar the Last Airbender... but with acid breath.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, I totally want to play one of these suckers in Pathfinder now. o.o

Thaaaank you so much for making this thread!

[White_Drake]

My pleasure; after wondering how the heck I could have possibly missed two racial HD and checking the rules for LA buy-off, I've decided against it though. Still, I may play a Tibbit... I just really don't like how they can only shift 1/hour; does anybody know a way of mitigating this?

[Eldan]

If you want to shift into catform... there's Hengeyokai from Oriental Aventurers. While I don't have the book here, there should be one for cats.

[Zombulian]

My pleasure; after wondering how the heck I could have possibly missed two racial HD and checking the rules for LA buy-off, I've decided against it though. Still, I may play a Tibbit... I just really don't like how they can only shift 1/hour; does anybody know a way of mitigating this?

Well... for one thing that's just not how it works. It's just if you shift from Cat to Human, you have to wait an hour before you can be a Cat again.

[Thurbane]

Or a Beguiler Beguiler.
Meh, I still prefer a Warforged Warmage/Warlock/Warblade/War Mind/War Weaver/Warmaster...

[Eldan]

Meh, I still prefer a Warforged Warmage/Warlock/Warblade/War Mind/War Weaver/Warmaster...

With a warbeast warhorse companion?

[Zombulian]

With a warbeast warhorse companion?

WARpanion I think you mean.

[White_Drake]

Well... for one thing that's just not how it works. It's just if you shift from Cat to Human, you have to wait an hour before you can be a Cat again.

Well yeah, but unless you need the strict RAW for some rules wizardry, isn't it essentially the same thing?

[Psyren]

@ Tibbit suggestion - Tibbits are a fine choice... but as psions, not sorcerers.

"A tibbit's cat form is unable to speak or use her paws to manipulate fine objects. She cannot cast spells with a verbal or somatic component, use scrolls, or otherwise activate magic items."

If you want to cast while kitty, you'll have to use your head.

[HunterOfJello]

I would go with a Beguiler race instead. Just be careful not to try and play a Beguiler Beguiler because your True Sight will make you not able to see your illusions properly.

[eggs]

Meh, I still prefer a Warforged Warmage/Warlock/Warblade/War Mind/War Weaver/Warmaster...
...with vow of peace, naturally. :p

[The Glyphstone]

Meh, I still prefer a Warforged Warmage/Warlock/Warblade/War Mind/War Weaver/Warmaster...

Bah. Still not as good as Bearington Bearman the Bearbearian.

(Anthromorphic Black Bear Were-Black Bear Bear Totem Barbarian/Bear Warrior/Bear Lord, with Improved Unarmed Strike, Wild Cohort, and Vow of Poverty. A humanoid bear who turns into a bear under the full moon, gets angry and turns into a bearier bear, can talk to bears, summon bears, has a pet bear, fights with his bear hands, and carries only the bear essentials.)

[GnomeGninjas]

@ Tibbit suggestion - Tibbits are a fine choice... but as psions, not sorcerers.

"A tibbit's cat form is unable to speak or use her paws to manipulate fine objects. She cannot cast spells with a verbal or somatic component, use scrolls, or otherwise activate magic items."

If you want to cast while kitty, you'll have to use your head.

I think there is a feat in savage species that lets you hiss and growl instead of the verbal components of a spell and lets you wave your paws around instead of the somatic ones.

[kardar233]

I think there is a feat in savage species that lets you hiss and growl instead of the verbal components of a spell and lets you wave your paws around instead of the somatic ones.

It is called Surrogate Spellcasting and requires WIS 13.