[3.5] Low level assassin

[CalamaroJoe]

I'm planning to throw at my players an assassin that attacks them while engaged in a battle, but they are quite low level and really not optimized.
What the minimum level an assassin can be?
Is the path rogue->assassin the best route?

I'm frightened by the Death Attack. It's cool, but I would be sorry to outright kill a character. On the other hand I don't want to pull my blows...
Any insights?

[we are not strictly core-only, but are not used to the fancier sources]

[Callous]

The minimum level an assassin can be is level 1.

You don't need to take the prestige class to be an actual hired killer.

You haven't told anything about your group so i can't tell you anything about what a reasonable assassin would look like

[Malachei]

Unless you want to specifically include the Assassin PrC, you'll probably find Swordsage a much better solution.

[CalamaroJoe]

Sorry, I was meaning an Assasin (as the PrC). So I was wondering about the minimum ECL.

The group is seven members of 6th level.
As said, they are not optimized. Moreover half of them are not confident with all the possibilities of their class.

[Saph]

The bog-standard assassin build is Rogue 5/Assassin X, so the lowest-level one would be Rogue 5/Assassin 1, for ECL 6.

There are numerous ways to build a nastier assassin (either using more powerful base classes, or early entry cheese) but if it's going to be attacking low-level underoptimised PCs in the middle of a battle they're probably going to be in enough trouble already. :P

[Yahzi]

I'm frightened by the Death Attack.
With 1 level in Assassin, Death Attack is a DC 12 save... against FORT... and it takes 3 rounds of not attacking to deliver it.

Not really nightmare material.

But you could play that up. Have the assassin ducking and weaving during the fight, while his minions lay into the PCs. "Ohh.... he's setting up his Death Attack! Only 3 more rounds to go! Haha! In two more rounds you're gonna get it! Oh boy, here it comes!"

Then tell them to make a DC 12 Fort save.:smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

With 1 level in Assassin, Death Attack is a DC 12 save... against FORT... and it takes 3 rounds of not attacking to deliver it.

Not really nightmare material. :smallbiggrin:

DC 11-17 for normal values of Int, actually. 10 Int for DC 11, 18 Int for DC 15 and Ability Focus for DC 17. So..yeah, I wouldn't worry too much. It's as likely to be lethal as you make it. Of course, bad luck can happen but it's D&D, people die.

[Yahzi]

DC 10-17 for normal values of Int, actually. 8 Int for DC 10, 18 Int for DC 15 and Ability Focus for DC 17. So..yeah, I wouldn't worry too much. It's as likely to be lethal as you make it. Of course, bad luck can happen but it's D&D, people die.
Oh right, I forgot the INT add.

Well, any Assassin that relies on it has to be pretty dumb, so... :smallbiggrin:

[Rift_Wolf]

With 1 level in Assassin, Death Attack is a DC 12 save... against FORT... and it takes 3 rounds of not attacking to deliver it.

Not really nightmare material.

But you could play that up. Have the assassin ducking and weaving during the fight, while his minions lay into the PCs. "Ohh.... he's setting up his Death Attack! Only 3 more rounds to go! Haha! In two more rounds you're gonna get it! Oh boy, here it comes!"

Then tell them to make a DC 12 Fort save.:smallbiggrin:

I don't think Death attack works that way...

"While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy."

SRD says death attack only happens if the assassin isn't seen or is disguised. The best way is to have them fight in an area of bad light and plenty of hiding places, so he can stealth around them while mooks keep the party busy.

Remember that bad luck still happens, regardless of the save DC. I threw an assassin against my party and it hit a barbarian with his swift death. The barbarian rolled his Fort save 4 times (Thanks to traits, spells, bard song, etc) and couldn't make it (I think he had to roll higher than 13.).

If the instant death attack worries you, remember he can use it to paralyse instead.

[CalamaroJoe]

Thanks for the help so far!


There are numerous ways to build a nastier assassin (either using more powerful base classes, or early entry cheese) but if it's going to be attacking low-level underoptimised PCs in the middle of a battle they're probably going to be in enough trouble already. :P

So you think it is too much?
However, do you have some feat/tricks suggestions?



If the instant death attack worries you, remember he can use it to paralyse instead.

Yes, I thought of it. But why would he paralyse when is equally difficult to kill?
The party is uderoptimised but is large. I thought his goal can be kill one or two and then flee. An helpless enemy can be then healed by the rest of the party after the fight.

[Studoku]

The paralyze version of death attack works if you don't want to kill players. The problem is justifying why an assassin isn't killing people given the chance.

Regarding the build, the limiting factor for entering assassin is the 8 ranks of hide & move silently which will (barring some particularly obscure cheese) need level 5. Rogue 5/Assassin x is the standard method of entry, although I'm currently playing a swordsage 5/assassin 3 who is really good. ToB may be a little powerful for an unoptimised group though.

Make sure the group can't gang up on the assassin when he appears. 7 characters focus firing anything built like a PC will take it down in a single round. Either make sure the group are sufficiently engaged, or have the assassin use hit and run tactics on the PCs.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you want to make an interesting assassin for a combat encounter, DO NOT USE THE ASSASSIN CLASS.

[docnessuno]

I'd go with Rogue 3 / fighter 2 / assassin 1

Something among those lines:
Human Rogue 3 / fighter 2 / assassin 1
Str 11 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 9 Cha 13
HP: 2d10+4d6+6 (31) - AC: 18 (To: 14 FF: 14) - Ini: +8 - BaB: +4
Fort: +5 Ref: +9 Will: +0
Attacks: Two masterwork short swords [+10 or +8/+8] (1d6+poison) or Masterwork light crossbow +9 (1d8+1)
Feats: Weapon finesse, Weapon focus (Dagger), Two weapon fighting, Quick draw, Stealthy, Improved initiative
Spaial: Sneak attack 3d6, Death attack (DC 13), Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap sense +1, Poison use
Known spells: Critical strike, True strike
Skills: Balance +10, Bluff +6, disguise +8, Escape artist +8, Gather Information +6 Hide +14, Intimidate +8, Listen +4, Move silently +14, Open locks +9, Search +7, Sleight Of Hand +10, Spellcraft +7, Spot +4, Tumble +8

Equipment:
Masterwork chain shirt
Two masterwork short swords
Masterwork light crossbow
10 +1 crossbow bolts
Large scorpion venom (injury poison, DC 14, 1d4 Con / 1d4 con), 5 doses
Wand of invisibility (5 charges)
Wand of cat’s grace (10 charges)

Both the DA DC and the poison DC are managable, the poison itself, while being quite nasty, is not so arsh to be unmanagable.
The feat selection is toned on the low-op side.
Remember to include the +2 Init/AC/to-hit/Ref/Skills from cat's grace.


Yes, I thought of it. But why would he paralyse when is equally difficult to kill?
Maybe because whoever hired him wanted the target alive.

[Flickerdart]

If you want to take some liberties, check out the Soulknife. The old Soulknife, in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook. If I remember correctly they get the ability to channel psionic attack modes through their mindblade at level 3 (ECL 8?), which means either a couple dice of ability damage or a couple rounds of stun, depending on the target and the attack mode used. It doesn't need the buildup of a death attack, and the results are always non-lethal, as no psionic attack mode hits Constitution (they get the ability to do Con damage anyway, but not until later).

The old Soulknife is the only good thing in that book, though.

[Aquillion]

Sorry, I was meaning an Assasin (as the PrC). So I was wondering about the minimum ECL.

The group is seven members of 6th level.
As said, they are not optimized. Moreover half of them are not confident with all the possibilities of their class.Why do you want to use the Assassin PRC specifically?

The question does relate to your original query, since how you want to use it would influence the build. But, I mean, it's also more genuine curiosity -- my opinion is that it's not a very good PrC to use against PCs, if you want a fun and interesting encounter. Having a death attack thrown at them just isn't something most PCs will enjoy, and its disadvantage isn't one that works well when NPCs are using it against PCs. Especially given that your group is not confident with their classes, I don't really see the point to having someone pop out and -- randomly, more or less, entirely based on one set of die rolls -- kill one of them instantly.

If you just want an encounter with a hired assassin, there's many other ways to do it (and you can more precisely adjust the threat level up and down as you please.) Is there a particular reason why you want to hit them with Death Attack as opposed to anything else?

[hoverfrog]

Yes, I thought of it. But why would he paralyse when is equally difficult to kill?The purpose of battle is to defeat your enemy, not necessarily to kill him. If you can paralyse someone and get away with him then you have a hostage. If I have a hostage who my minions will kill unless you pay me 10,000gp then I have leverage against you. If he paralyses someone and the fight is mobile then he's taken two people out of the fight. The paralysed one and the one who is carrying him.

Why is the assassin attacking them? Money? Prestige? He's hired to kill the scoundrel bard who took the virginity of the Duke's eldest daughter, but he cares nothing for the bard's friends? Does he want to make a name for himself and takes on the enemy for the prestige? Maybe he's a racist and hates half orcs or half elves? Is he looking for a challenge and is bored of easy kills? Does he seek to infiltrate your group to discover their plans before killing one of you and escaping with the only weapon that can defeat his master? He (or she) should have reasons for doing what he does that will inform you of the actions that he takes.

[Piggy Knowles]

In a game I ran years ago, I used the following as a one-off assassin in a relatively low-level encounter. His goal was to catch the PCs, not kill them, so he focused on paralysis and tried to drag them off one at a time.

Running off memory, his build was:

Human Rogue 3/Wizard* 2/Assassin 1

Variants: Conjuration specialist, Martial wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard), Immediate magic (trade familiar for Abrupt Jaunt)

Stats (28-point buy): Str 8/Dex 14/Con 10/Int 18/Wis 8/Cha 12

Feats: Quick Draw, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus (Bluff), Ability Focus (Death Attack)

Assassin spells known: Disguise Self, True Strike
Wizard spells prepared: Detect Magic, Arcane Mark, Mage Hand, Acid Splash, Grease, Mage Armor, Swift Expeditious Retreat

Relevant skills: Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Concentration, Balance, Sleight of Hand, Escape Artist, Disguise

He'd had some hired thugs, and started things off with Mage Armor and Disguise Self cast on him to appear as though he was a helpless guy being mugged. While the PCs fought the hired thugs (3rd-level warriors and experts, IIRC - not a challenge for a sixth-level party), he monitored his target, successfully paralyzed him with a DC 17 death attack, and then tossed tanglefoot bags to slow down the rest of the party while one of his thugs carried off the paralyzed PC. He mostly focused on evasion tactics, using Abrupt Jaunt to stay alive and eventually retreating with Swift Expeditious Retreat. Later he followed the party, hidden, and attempted to paralyze another party member, although this time they made their save and, having exhausted all of his spells, the party managed to catch him (although Abrupt Jaunt and a good escape artist check almost let him get away again). From there they managed to convince him to reveal where he'd taken the other party member.

It was a pretty solid encounter overall. It's always a pain to fight someone whose modus operandi is to make one sneaky attack and then retreat. Left the PCs paranoid for quite some time.

[Invader]

I actually really like the Assassin Prc. It changes the base class just enough to make the flavor work for what its supposed to but it doesn't make the base class particularly stronger or weaker which is what a Prc should do IMO.

If you're really worried about DA just don't use it, or target the player with the best fort save, or use the paralyzing option for the reason that have already been mentioned.

Or rewrite the Prc. I used a variation of assassin and shadow dancer that worked really well one time and was a lot of fun. I think I lost the assassin spell list summon shadow but kept most of the other stuff. It was a bit OP but still no where near tier 1.

[moritheil]

Why do you want to use the Assassin PRC specifically?

Yeah, to be honest, I don't see why you don't go with a Ninja or something. At low levels that's probably the easiest way to get someone who can both sneak attack and turn invisible suddenly, for that spooky "Oh crap where did the assassin go!" feel. :smallcool:

[moritheil]

Some food for thought on power levels:

Re: death attack, by the time an NPC has it (6th level) a Tome of Battle char literally cannot fail a DC 17 Fort save*, so death attack is just a way for the NPC to demonstrate that they would have been lethal to lower level or less prepared adventurers. And a certain commonly used mage build would have Mindsight 100' at 6, and therefore spot him from pretty far away. So the Assassin really is quite behind the power curve in terms of challenging a prepared party, and you need not fear about the death attack. At the same CR, you could send a level 6 sorcerer, who would almost certainly be more dangerous with just Spell Focus and Sudden Maximize, or 16 CR 1/2 archers, who could probably severely injure any low-AC members if this is low-Op.

(*Diamond Mind maneuver that swaps concentration for one save, max concentration ranks = 9, feat allows you to take 10 on concentration any time. It's kind of a standard package if Bo9S is an allowed book.)

[Rhaegar14]

Yeah, to be honest, I don't see why you don't go with a Ninja or something. At low levels that's probably the easiest way to get someone who can both sneak attack and turn invisible suddenly, for that spooky "Oh crap where did the assassin go!" feel. :smallcool:

Ninja is also a great class for NPC enemies because they can become very problematic when they can afford to blow all their daily uses of Ghost Step in a single encounter.

[Unusual Muse]

FYI, The Assassin's Handbook from Green Ronin Publishing has an Assassin base class if you really want to start from level 1. :smallsmile:

[Steward]

The purpose of battle is to defeat your enemy, not necessarily to kill him. If you can paralyse someone and get away with him then you have a hostage. If I have a hostage who my minions will kill unless you pay me 10,000gp then I have leverage against you. If he paralyses someone and the fight is mobile then he's taken two people out of the fight. The paralysed one and the one who is carrying him.

Why is the assassin attacking them? Money? Prestige? He's hired to kill the scoundrel bard who took the virginity of the Duke's eldest daughter, but he cares nothing for the bard's friends? Does he want to make a name for himself and takes on the enemy for the prestige? Maybe he's a racist and hates half orcs or half elves? Is he looking for a challenge and is bored of easy kills? Does he seek to infiltrate your group to discover their plans before killing one of you and escaping with the only weapon that can defeat his master? He (or she) should have reasons for doing what he does that will inform you of the actions that he takes.

Those are all great reasons to use the paralysis effect. Another, kind of silly one, is that maybe he just made a mistake. He's a low-level assassin, who just got his death touch ability. Maybe the only difference between paralysis and death is which nerve ending you slice, or how long you pinch an artery closed? Maybe the assassins always forgets -- downstroke on the carotid or up? Oh, he just went down, but he's still breathing. I guess I should have used the other one then.

[Kulture]

First of all either use the Pathfinder assassin with 3.5's spells or use the assassin handbook base class version which instead gets Coup de gras as a sneak attack effect X times per day and spell progression like a ranger.

If you go with the former go with a sniper build, getting a bunch of mundane and cheap stealth boosts like the arms and equipment guide shoes, body suit and poncho, a cloak of elven kind and a ring of dark hidden.

Then you'll want rapid reload, great crossbow proficiency, weapon focus, crossbow sniper, dead aim, focus shot and perfect strike so that you have Dex times 2 and a half plus int to your damage with the crossbow.
Make it a quick reload great crossbow for good measure, maybe even make it triple threat so it's 3 bolts per attack action.

Mount a crossbow scope on it, your first assassin spell should be sniper shot.

If you feel mean make him a sepulchral thief for an ECL of 8, giving him good bonuses to the stats that matter and giving him things like a 30ft aura that causes a -2 perception to those over half his HD and deafness and blindness to those under half his HD (Great against cohorts).

Send the party out with some mooks or someone to escort and play cat and mouse, shooting to paralyze.

House rule the paralysis to be until a heal check is administered or 1d4 days or something. 1d4 rounds is nothing.

Death attack may not be much by itself, but when it's from something half a mile away with a +31 stealth bonus before you factor in invisibility and the DC with player rolled stats is 17 without a feat sunk in it, they'll think twice.

For added fun get improved critical and use lung-piercer bolts that force a fort save vs lung collapse on a crit (and 1d6 con damage, applied before the save) equal to 10 plus the user's to hit bonus with the weapon.
DC17 isn't much but a DC33 save VS slow horrifying death's another matter.

I worked out that if you stat it right and make the right purchases, this build could kill the tarrasque in the surprise round at level 7 in pathfinder.

I also suggest giving the crossbow an underslung chemical sprayer, so that the assassin can clear undergrowth (with defoliant) and stone (rock dissolver acid) without wasting an action.

Get creative with alchemy and magic. Behind cover? Use a sky rocket with a fuse bomb warhead to blast them out. Metal armor? Steel phase bolts go right through. Wooden barricade? Wood wisp arrow spell goes straight through that too.
Problematic target holed up in a stronghold? Alchemically powered tank with a huge gnomish calculus as a main cannon and a large chemical sprayer for dissolving walls.
Target a general that's always with his army?
Barrage the camp with mortar fire then snipe stragglers.

An assassin is not just for killing, he can be a weapon of terror.
Make the players feel vulnerable, they'll learn to adapt more quickly, they'll get smarter or they'll die.

Also consider ambushing them with sites littered with mines and trip wires.
Exploit their weaknesses and psychological ticks to the assassin's advantage.
Give him a scrying shard and some bolts with scrying beacons that he can shoot at vehicles the players use, perhaps using a patsy to host one while they converse with the players.
You can even use the scrying shard to study the players so the death attack is ready when they arrive.

Don't forget wand chambers, chemical reservoirs and alchemical teeth, too. A handy haversack in the form of a webbing rig goes a long way toward compact travel for the sniper on the move.

Travel light.
Hit fast.
Hit hard.
Terrorize them until they break down crying.
Crying is nature telling you that you're an awesome DM.

P.S. My build was PF rogue 4/ PF Monk 1 (kung fu genius zen archer)/ Assassin the rest.
This way you don't need to buy armour and you get perfect strike with ranged weapons, allowing you to roll twice and use the best result at least 2/day. By ECL 8 with this build I was rocking AC 35 and +25 damage a shot.

[White_Drake]

If you want to scare your players, I think it would be much more fun to have the assassin stalk them over the course of an adventure, popping up whenever it's inconvenient. This is great at building tension, but you may want to make him undead or warforged or something, to get rid of the need for sleep. You can also use this to keep the action moving (okay so you rest? One hour into the watch you see a flicker of movement out of the corner of your eye...)

[CalamaroJoe]

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Actually, I was thinking of the Assassin PrC because I myself am not very confident with all the classes.

The assassin himself is part of a scheme to keep the party under stress. He has the task of making the most damage and flee. I don't think that he will be able to carry away an unconscious PC. Anyway he will try.



maybe he just made a mistake. He's a low-level assassin, who just got his death touch ability. Maybe the only difference between paralysis and death is which nerve ending you slice, or how long you pinch an artery closed? Maybe the assassins always forgets -- downstroke on the carotid or up? Oh, he just went down, but he's still breathing. I guess I should have used the other one then.

This made me laugh. :smallbiggrin:

[Saintheart]

Another possibility is to load up a rogue with a few ambush feats: Staggering Strike, Nauseating Strike (?) -- these have effects on players without being lethal. "Oh crap! He hit me and suddenly I'm throwing up?"

And in more powerful assassin builds, specifically ones that use poisons, they're synergistic with later pulling out Death Attack, because they hit Fort saves.

[Elric VIII]

Unless you are absolutely sure you want to have the Assassin PrC, I recommend a simple Rogue with the Master of Poisons feat (DotU) and maybe the version that substitutes SA for bonus feats. The Master of Poisons feat allows you to use poisons without poisoning yourself and apply them as a swift action, so you can use something like Drow Poison that can take them out of the combat without actually killing them (2d4 hours of unconsciousness).

[Gavinfoxx]

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Actually, I was thinking of the Assassin PrC because I myself am not very confident with all the classes.


Then learn. People here are here to help.

The best thing to do is think about, in as broad strokes as possible, what sorts of things you want the character or npc to be good at doing, what sort of threat you want him to be, what archetypes you want him to do, and also what sources you have access to. Then tell us that, and we can help you build a character or npc to do that sort of stuff.

[Runestar]

What about using a ready-made assassin-themed monster?

At cr6, we have the babau, though keeping track of all its various abilities can be a bit of a challenge.

[Kuulvheysoon]

What about using a ready-made assassin-themed monster?

At cr6, we have the babau, though keeping track of all its various abilities can be a bit of a challenge.

I'll do you one better - vanilla Murrulurk, from Sandstorm. They get most of the good assassin things from their race.

[Spider_Jerusalem]

If he's there to assassinate a specific member of the party, a ranger can be a great "assassin" type character.

I also had a few problems with assassins that were related to death attacks. They usually go to one of two extremes: either they become too efficient and kill whoever they need to kill in the party or they become too inefficient and are obliterated. If you want something in-between, you could make an assassin-ish character without the assassin class.

[ThiagoMartell]

Well, any Assassin that relies on it has to be pretty dumb, so... :smallbiggrin:

Is that so? Let's say you're a venerable grey elf Factotum 5/Assassin 1. You start with Int 20, up to 23 with age, 24 with the level 4 boost. You pay for reincarnate. Now you have a new young body with good physical stats.
Between Sickening Strike and Terrifying Strike, you deal -4 to saves. Let's say you have Ability Focus with death attack (if you have any problem with requirements, use dark chaos shuffle to trade away your racial weapon proficiencies).
So... DC 20, your target gets -4 to saves. Of course your weapon is poisoned (you can get Wild Cohort for a viper, even), so before they even roll against death attack, they might get yet another penalty to Con.
Let's consider a Dwarf with a good Fort save and Con 20 - that's Fortitude +9 (or +5 with your debuffs). He needs to roll 15 or higher, so you basically have a 75% chance of taking him out with one single poisoned dagger (or ranged weapon, if you have a wand).
Basically, yeah, it's usually weak, but it's not "dumb" if you optimize it correctly.