[Pathfinder] Making An Optimized Werewolf

[Halae]

So, I have a habit of making backup characters because my characters have a tendency to burn brightly before going out. Hard. And this time i wanted to try and make a werewolf character as my backup, since the DM has a pproved the use of lycanthropy for my character. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to make this optimal, and so I come to you, looking for how to design an effective werewolf.

A few key points:

1. Werewolf or Dire Werewolf?
2. Class and base race?
3. Combat style focus (claws, weaponry, spells, etc...)

Any help given would be appreciated.

[Invader]

So, I have a habit of making backup characters because my characters have a tendency to burn brightly before going out. Hard. And this time i wanted to try and make a werewolf character as my backup, since the DM has a pproved the use of lycanthropy for my character. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to make this optimal, and so I come to you, looking for how to design an effective werewolf.

A few key points:

1. Werewolf or Dire Werewolf?
2. Class and base race?
3. Combat style focus (claws, weaponry, spells, etc...)

Any help given would be appreciated.

Are you more interested in melee or casting, what level are you starting at, using WBL rules, are you allowed to use stuff from 3.5 or only PF? More info would be really helpful.

[Halae]

Ah, my apologies.

DnD 3.5 stuff is available, as long as it's approved - no base classes, but feats, spells, and Prestige Classes are generally available.

We're sort of on WBL, yes. Also, at the moment, we're level 5

As for preferred combat type, I don't really have a preference there, so whatever you think is most optimized or works best thematically would be appropriate

[Waker]

Well, werewolf has a CR2, so you would probably want to avoid going with a class that relies heavily on spellcasting. For mechanical and thematic reasons, it would probably be a good suggestion to go with Ranger, focusing on the Natural Weapon Combat Style. You would still want to use a manufactured weapon in combat though, as natural attacks don't get extra attacks based on BAB.
There are some decent archetypes, but without an idea of what you want to accomplish, there aren't too many suggestions I can make.

Barbarian would also be a good class. Fighter might be good with the Natural Weapon Training.

[Invader]

There was a thread not long ago about the same thing and if I remember correctly there actually wasn't a lot of helpful info as I don't think there's a lot of things you can do you really optimize a werewolf like you can some other classes.

Look into the natural feats that improve natural attacks and the like or things like power attack that will help out in your animal form. I don't see a lot of benefit to optimizing your human form because it defeats the purpose of playing a lycanthrope to begin with.

As far as creatures and the LA you're dealing with you can go with the usual werewolf/werebear/werelion for melee or if your DM allows stuff like were(insert magical creature here) gor for fun stuff like a were-blink dog or were-griffon. Of course that all comes down to how powerful your campaign is and how much chesse your DM will allow.

You can always take caster levels and natural spell if you're DM doesnt care that the prereq says wildshape and not just animal form. Same thing goes for wilding claps and armor. Just being a lycanthrope will leave you lagging behind optimized melee classes.

I'd say for martial classes thing like barbarian and the prestige classes that go a long with it would work well. I'm not sure of the best place to find the best optimized choices but you might want to take a look in savage species to start.

[Rhaegar14]

As far as wolf or dire wolf, it depends on what you want your character to accomplish. If I recall, using basic wolf gets you a fairly negligible boost to strength in hybrid and animal forms, especially considering that it requires something like ECL 5, but without a savage progression, dire wolf won't really be possible.

Also, if you want this fluff but aren't too stoked about statistical werewolf, a Barbarian with the right feats and rage powers can make a quite convincing lycanthrope.

[Halae]

As far as wolf or dire wolf, it depends on what you want your character to accomplish. If I recall, using basic wolf gets you a fairly negligible boost to strength in hybrid and animal forms, especially considering that it requires something like ECL 5, but without a savage progression, dire wolf won't really be possible.

Also, if you want this fluff but aren't too stoked about statistical werewolf, a Barbarian with the right feats and rage powers can make a quite convincing lycanthrope.

This is Pathfinder we're talking about, actually. the total level adjustment from being a werewolf ends up at +2, half of which gets taken away for being a high enough level for it. so it's more like +1
Well, werewolf has a CR2, so you would probably want to avoid going with a class that relies heavily on spellcasting. For mechanical and thematic reasons, it would probably be a good suggestion to go with Ranger, focusing on the Natural Weapon Combat Style. You would still want to use a manufactured weapon in combat though, as natural attacks don't get extra attacks based on BAB.
There are some decent archetypes, but without an idea of what you want to accomplish, there aren't too many suggestions I can make.

Barbarian would also be a good class. Fighter might be good with the Natural Weapon Training.
on the point of what I want, that's what I came to you guys asking about. I have no plan, no set direction i want to take this in. I just want a werewolf. I like the idea of a ranger with dips into barbarian and fighter for the particular skills they grant, what with rage and natural weapon abilities.I was also looking at the witch class, and given that Hexes are spell-like abilities, they could be cast no problem in hybrid or animal form - something to consider.

[Waker]

Well, how about going Wild Stalker Ranger with the Natural Weapon Combat style. You lose your favored enemy, one combat style feat and Hunters Bond, but you still maintain your high skills, spells, Favored Terrain and a few other Ranger staples. In exchange you gain Rage and Rage powers, plus some bonuses to perception and uncanny dodge. That way you don't have to dip into multiple classes.

[Halae]

Sounds pretty perfect to me. thanks for the advice. to everybody :smallsmile:

[Wavelab]

Well you seem to be satisfied, but before you continue, you said 3.5 material is allowed. In that case I'd suggest going into a were-fleshraker (Dinosaur found in MM III on page 40) this way you get 2 claw attacks, 1 bite and 1 tail attack plus leaping pounce (full attack + rake at the end of a charge), Poison (Fort DC 14, Initial and secondary damage 1d6 dex), rake and a nice bonus to jump.

And then if you're up for it you can also take Black Blood Hunter (Players guide to Faerun page 177) which allows you to do an extra 1d6 vile damage with your natural attacks (Vile damage is just scary) and allows you to change form as a free action at 9th level.

That is considering 3.5 material.

[Private]

Also, if 3.5 material is allowed, you should look into the Warshaper Prestige Class. It nets lots of useful abilities all crammed into a 5 level prestige class, including +4 Str/Con while shifted, Reach, Improved natural weapon damage, Fast Healing, and probably some other things I'm forgetting. For going melee as a Lycanthrope, I think this class is pure win.

[Halae]

well, I wanted to go with werewolf for thematic reasons, so if I'm ever specifically doing an optimized character with no concern for fluff I'll look into the fleshraker. Thanks for pointing that out - looks like a scary critter

As for the black blood hunter, now there's something I can get behind. I'm looking at it now, and it enhances virtually everything you might want out of a lycanthrope character. It'd be nice if it was full BAB, but hey, for enhanced everything else, I'd say that's a good exchange.

the Warshaper is also an interesting choice. i'll look into it, though i don't know if my DM would like it

[Julix]

White haired witch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/white-haired-witch)is usually just kind of cool (because she has a reach attack with her hair) - but it's a secondary natural attack meaning for her it's often very useless... However for a natural attack build this could be a sweet extra!

It grapples upon hitting, without you being considered grappled - so you get bonuses for hitting that enemy as though he was in a grapple with someone else.

You can order the attacks any way you like so for a full round attack have the hair strike first and if it hits you just rip the enemy to pieces while the hair does it's thing...

Maintaining the grapple does take an action - but just chose not to at the beginning of the next turn, as it's a free action for you to let go. If you dipped for 2 levels you can constrict as a swift action (i.e. as part of the first full-round attack and after your second turn starts but before you let go) --- if you dip 4 levels you can trip. Know any good source for pounce?