[3.5] Psionic Mind Flayers with Psion class levels?

[heretic]

I'm planning on running some Mind Flayers (XPH version) at my party and I want to soup up one or more of them with class levels in Psion.

Here's the problem though--Mind Flayers are CR 8, yet manifest as 9th level Psions. So if I add two levels of Psion, I've basically created an 11th level Psion with some free extra abilities (mind blast, tentacles) that weighs in at only CR 10.

My inclination is to raise the Mind Flayer base CR to 9 or 10, but I'd like to know what others have done or would do in this situation.

[Fouredged Sword]

I personally would make them CR = total psion CL. Quick and easy.

[Airanath]

They still being limited by the action economy, you can probably safely give them CR = to Manifester Level (you could easily do a wilder mind flayer, with no loss at all, due to the way psionics work, well, maybe a bit on the power level side). Maybe +1 or +2, they are, after all, more resilient than your avarage Psion (all those aberration dies make them more likely to survive a party than a psion of the same level).

[Yuki Akuma]

A level in an appropriate class increases CR by 1.

That's it. So 1 level in Psion increases their CR by 1.

[Airanath]

A level in an appropriate class increases CR by 1.

That's it. So 1 level in Psion increases their CR by 1.

Which is what the op is pointing at and feeling is wrong here. The CR 8 mind flayer manifests as a psion of 9th lvl. Add two levels and its now a 11 level manifester at CR 10... With more PPs than your avarage psion, early access to the next tier of powers, and a powerful stun ability, that will mess the whole party (except, maybe if it has a psionic, but its easy for it to eat the psion in melee after rendering everyone else helpless most of the time). Sometimes, the CR system.needs to be disregarded, and the DM common sense come into play.
That Damned Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a) is lurking this thread now.

[Yuki Akuma]

Yeah, but you have to remember that your average monster has a life expectancy of four or five rounds. He's not really going to be using all of those power points, and the stun ability takes a standard action (which means he won't be using a power in that round unless he has Quicken).

He's still going to get murdered by four 10th level dudes.

[Runestar]

I'm planning on running some Mind Flayers (XPH version) at my party and I want to soup up one or more of them with class levels in Psion.

Here's the problem though--Mind Flayers are CR 8, yet manifest as 9th level Psions. So if I add two levels of Psion, I've basically created an 11th level Psion with some free extra abilities (mind blast, tentacles) that weighs in at only CR 10.

My inclination is to raise the Mind Flayer base CR to 9 or 10, but I'd like to know what others have done or would do in this situation.

The psionic mindflayer is not alone in this interesting phenomenon where monsters with innate spellcasting sometimes get a cr lower than the equivalent human npc.

For instance, the planetar is cr16, yet casts as a cleric17.

Perhaps it is the stock npcs which are over cr'ed instead? :smallconfused:

[heretic]

Also keep in mind that Mind Flayers have a mega-buffed statline (+8 int!?) that no humanoid NPC could ever hope to rival, and SR 25+ class levels, all in addition to mind blast and psionics.

[Airanath]

Yeah, but you have to remember that your average monster has a life expectancy of four or five rounds. He's not really going to be using all of those power points, and the stun ability takes a standard action (which means he won't be using a power in that round unless he has Quicken).

He's still going to get murdered by four 10th level dudes.

Want to see my mind flayer use BOTH stun and psionics?
There is this little pearl in the EPH: Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm)
Look at that! All of a sudden it gains an extra purely mental action! Not only it can manifest powers (even if at a lower level than your main mind), it can also use mind blast(which, behold, doesn't suffer from the level penalty, and is a purely mental action)! While the main mind is free to manifest freely.
Without optimising, just giving it the lvl 1 Psion Feat its allowed to chose, lets say, Expanded Knowledge: Astral Construct (If you want a TPK, take Quicken Power in place of Combat Casting).
Psion Mind Flayer routine:
Round 1:

Main Mind: Schism.
Second Mind: Mind Blast (DC 17, 3d4 rounds stunned if you fail the save)
If you have Quicken: Spend Focus, Manifest Quickened Astral Construct, something that pounces and kills squishies. It acts right away, smashing a squishie.

General Will saves: Cleric/Druid = +11 (assuming 18 wis) Wizard +7 (Assuming 10 wis) Fighter/Rogue = +3 (Assuming 10 wis). That pretty much encompasses all the ranges (paladin is a bit above wis, monk/ranger probably a bit under), the Schism just shut down the muscle, which, is the problem for this one mind flayer. With SR 25 the Wizard and Cleric can't really damage it, and the few spells that damage it will lead to round 2.

Round 2:

Second Mind: Mind Blast in case anyone made their save,or hit someone with an ego whip (DC 16, 1d4 cha[general dump stat]), or regain focus, or even, ready action: Dispell Psionic to counter spell anything cast against the Mind Flayer.
Main Mind: Ego Whip at full power (+8 pps), (3d4 Cha damage, DC 20) or Psionic Dominate any Melee who lucked their save, make it smash a squishie, or Astral Construct, if you couldn't quicken it.
Astral Construct: Pounce a squishie.

Round 3:
Go ahead and extract brains from whoever is still alive, and stunned.

It has good initiative, so chances are good for the mind flayer to go first, if it has the surprise round, these PCs are pretty much dead. I am assuming a standard party, nor really optmized. Its a nice example of the kind of encounter you cast fog spells to cover your escape, because its going to go badly.

[Cor1]

You can also Twin Schism, so you get two additional standard actions after your normal actions (including those from Synchronicity, Hustle, Temporal Acceleration, Anticipatory Strike etc).

Psions... "As long as I have power points, it's still my turn."