Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Currently, the fifth Edition of D&D is in development. It looks good, and I'm looking forward to it. However, the fourth Edition will be sorely missed, and I'm not ready to stop playing it any time soon.

Enter Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn - my attempt to continue supporting the game long after it is abandoned by its creators. Magic Sword will be a sort of "sequel" to Fourth Edition, meaning that it will take the Fourth Edition rules, improve on them, describe them in a whole new way, rebuild the content from the ground up, create a whole new implied setting, and present them as a new game that gives proper credit to its roots.

Why am I doing this? Because ...

Fourth Edition was a solid game filled with great ideas and concepts, but it was also deeply flawed. Magic Sword will iron out many of the kinks, making the game better all round.
Fourth Edition will soon no longer be supported. Magic Sword will allow people to easily play the game - and new people to get into the game - long after it goes out of print.
Fourth Edition was expensive, and only available in hardcover format. Magic Sword will be free and digitally distributed, which will make it more accessible.
Fourth Edition was hard on third party publishers, making them pay royalties to produce Fourth Edition content. Magic Sword will be completely open, so third parties can make content for it as they wish.
Fourth Edition was incomplete: there were many gaps which needed to be filled in. Magic Sword will fill these gaps.


See what I have so fare Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f8ir_SndMEARGfT4cl-SkaR5BH8JMpnQgRBoh4cMPFg/edit#).

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I created a Google Doc containing notes and such. It will be the main construction area for the game. Note that everything is subject to change.

It can be found Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f8ir_SndMEARGfT4cl-SkaR5BH8JMpnQgRBoh4cMPFg/edit).

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'm an artist, and am willing to lend my support, as well as insight when I can! I admit I did not get to play a lot of 4.0, as many of the people I'd normally played with did not own any of the books, and had no desire to buy them, but I at least own a few and liked a lot of the innovations.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I'm an artist, and am willing to lend my support, as well as insight when I can! I admit I did not get to play a lot of 4.0, as many of the people I'd normally played with did not own any of the books, and had no desire to buy them, but I at least own a few and liked a lot of the innovations.

Thank you, sir! I would love for you to help illustrate the game. Can you post some of your art?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Thank you, sir! I would love for you to help illustrate the game. Can you post some of your art?

I'll pm you some soon.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I'll pm you some soon.

Please don't. There is limited space in my inbox. Can you email (joshapetronisakins at gmail.com) or post it on the thread?

Also, I updated the doc quite a bit. Its worth checking out.

[Giegue]

I'd also be willing to lend a hand. While I am no artist, I know people who know artists, though they won't work for free. As where I can lend a hand, I can help with the fluff and mechanical sides and even the business side, if you plan on actually deciding to go down that route. Personally, if you do, kickstarter is always a fine place to start as far as getting funds are concerned. Also, while I am not the best homebrewer, I know 4e well enough to know what works and what dose not, and I also would LOVE to make a GOOD Necromancer for this game. Anyway, I'd love to lend my hand in this as I too was sad to see 4e go.

As far as fluff goes, there is a lot that can be done. However, while the base setting should be traditional fantasy, I would LOVE to one-day create a magi-tech based setting. The one thing I loved about 4es rules where that they where easily refluffed into whatever you want. Because of that I can see this branching out into other genras(such as sci-fi) in later expansions.

Looked over the google doc and I like your direction so far. One thing I will suggest right out of the gate is re-naming the "leader' roll to the "supporter' roll or something else that gets the same message across. I NEVER liked how 4e used the term "leader' since it implies that mechanics determine who should be the party leader, which is something that, to me, should be totally RP dependent. While wizards did make a big effort to say leader role =/= party leader, just the use of the term can get confusing and lead some people to believe that whoever is in the leader roll should always be the party leader in RP.

[Virdish]

I'd be willing to lend my hand. I don't know much balance and mechanically about 4e but I can do fluff and I love to write.

[Lord Raziere]

I cannot help, but I support this endeavor wholeheartedly. Good luck! I wish you well in this, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with someday.

[Amechra]

I like what I'm seeing, even though I didn't play 4e at all.

My I suggest Magic Sword as a name for the game? It comes from a thread where some-one pointed out that 4e probably wouldn't have caused as bad a fanbase split if it had just been called Magic Sword or something like that.

To make the dwarves distinctive, just do what Sword of Shanara did; make them racially claustrophobic. Of course, in that setting, dwarves still look like Tolkein dwarves, due to having to survive in deep underground tunnels in their backstory for generations...

Goblins need to be a player race; few things would make the game as distinctive as having Goblins be an actual politically strong entity in their own rights. I do have a Goblin empire write-up for a game I was going to run, where they revere necromancy as an artform, worship their Barghest ancestors as god-kings, and have no afterlife, thus making number one make a lot more sense.

I like the idea of adjusting the number of powers that you end up getting; I would like to have at-Wills be spread out more often, perhaps with some of the weaker Encounterly powers allowing you to take them as at-Wills when you are X levels higher? (So a Wizard gets Fireball as an Encounterly power at 7th, say, but if they wait for, say, 14th level, they can learn it as an at-Will power; doing this allows them to replace Fireball as an Encounterly with another one they could have taken at the same level.)

I love you so much for hitting upon reducing HP and healing surges; I would like to see something that makes whittling down HP cool, like benchmarks that make some of your powers better (like, I don't know, Death Spiral deals 2[W] damage normally, but 3[W] if the enemy is below 1/2 HP, with later Powers giving you the ability to modify this?)

I would also like to see each class getting some mechanical thematics added into their make-up, as well, like a Fighter's powers mostly dealing damage in terms of [W], while, I don't know, Rogues could gain some defensive abilities that allow them to reroll both their defenses and those of their enemies?

On that note, why not work it out so that the players roll all the dice? So every monster entry, once you adjust for the random abilities that some monsters will have, will be a set of static numbers? This might already be how 4e worked, so excuse me if this is not a change.

On the subject of monsters... I think adopting a more 3e approach to monsters might be a good idea... or at least make some extra "power sets" you can throw onto monsters if you want them to have a more distinctive feel (want that dragon to be a spellcaster? Toss the Wizard power-set on it. Want it to be a warrior? Toss on the Fighter power-set. Want it to be a mix? Toss on "half" of both!) Of course, these power-sets would have to be adjusted by each tier (which there should be 6 of, if we are keeping the same general sense of "weak monsters are 5 levels below, normal monsters are equal level, and strong monsters are 5 levels above" that I've heard was present in 4e.) Of course, all of these would be divorced from fluff, so that you can fit them in more easily and so that new DMs don't have the problem of "but this doesn't fit the fluff of what I want!"

On a similar note, you could approach the paths at the higher levels in a similar way; just make it so that if a Wizard wants to develop more of a Rogue-ish outlook on life, he takes a Rogue path, while another could take a Fighter path, or whatever. If they wanted to be more specialized, you could just throw descriptors on everything a la 3e (but less of them, a lot less), and then make some generic paths that grant more of that type and buff them up, while decreasing the power of other descriptors (So a Wizard selecting what they want to call the Necromancer path would be focusing on [Death] powers, just like a Fighter who wants to be a Fleshripper (also focuses on [Death] powers, is the exact same path, just with a different name.)). Of course, this would need a lot of balance, to stop the Wizard who has the Fighter path 5 times from being a better Fighter than a Fighter, but in the end I think it would be worth it.

Anyway, I could help with fluff or mechanics, either one.

[Empedocles]

I'll lend a hand where I can, although my experience has largely been 4e independent.

I'd also like to raise the legal question. 4e's SRD was much more restricted than 3.5's, so a lot of basic mechanics might have to be redesigned (or at the very least renamed) in the interest of copyright.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I'll lend a hand where I can, although my experience has largely been 4e independent.

I'd also like to raise the legal question. 4e's SRD was much more restricted than 3.5's, so a lot of basic mechanics might have to be redesigned (or at the very least renamed) in the interest of copyright.

The game will not be a carbon copy of Fourth Edition, but a loving imitation with many differences. Not Fourth Edition's "Pathfinder", but Fourth Edition's "True20".

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Please don't. There is limited space in my inbox. Can you email (joshapetronisakins at gmail.com) or post it on the thread?

Also, I updated the doc quite a bit. Its worth checking out.

Then I'm listed as WillowTheWombie on DeviantArt. I try not to post pictures on forums if I can help it. On deviant, i have a few earlier examples of dragons and some various things, but i've matured a bit since then. Sample none the less!

[Dark Elf Bard]

I'm uh.. an artist. I would be willing to draw some stuff for you.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Then I'm listed as WillowTheWombie on DeviantArt. I try not to post pictures on forums if I can help it. On deviant, i have a few earlier examples of dragons and some various things, but i've matured a bit since then. Sample none the less!
You're not bad at all! :smallbiggrin: I would be honoured if you could help with the project.


I'm uh.. an artist. I would be willing to draw some stuff for you.
Thanks! Could you show me some work?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Races could be like themes, providing alternate utility powers at various levels, and granting more and more racial powers as character level up. I would also like to make them more flexible. Perhaps each one could have a dozen or so racial traits, and players could choose two at first level, and then another every five levels?

[Amechra]

Calmate, tio, todavia tienes tiempo.

Anyway, what do you think about my wall-o'-text post?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

If you are interested in the project, you should check out its thread at rpg.net (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?628776-Fourth-Edition-Retro-Clone). There is a lot more discussion going on there.

Also, I have an idea for the setting:

The world is littered with massive broken ruins left behind by some mysterious ancient civilization. They make up much of the landscape. Some contain broken down, impossibly advanced machinery. Many have villages built inside them, using their structure to their advantage. A few contain passageways, leading deep underground to places filled with glittering treasures and unspeakable horrors.

In the night, goblins crawl through windows and snatch up babies. Shadows thicken, and whisper to each other. The cruel fae lure lost travellers into the dark place between worlds. Deranged cults gather and summon eldritch horrors from the endless, maddening void.

[Amechra]

But why do the Goblins steal babies? It is hardly an effective source of food.

No, it is because Goblins cannot have offspring; they are dead, soulless things (that should be playable, natch) that have an inkling of what they need to do to bring themselves to "life"...

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

But why do the Goblins steal babies? It is hardly an effective source of food.

No, it is because Goblins cannot have offspring; they are dead, soulless things (that should be playable, natch) that have an inkling of what they need to do to bring themselves to "life"...

I was thinking more they they are servants of the fae, and are bringing them slaves, but that is even better.

[Surrealistik]

Would absolutely love to help with this, with regards to mechanics, design and balancing.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I'm giving the game a Google+ page, so I think now would be a good time to decide on a name. I like Magic Sword, but Orcus and Going Fourth are also good. Feel free to suggest something.

[Virdish]

So the goblins turn these stolen babies into baby goblins. Sounds awesome. Elf's should be the result of a mating of a fae and a human. This would make them the children of slaves which could easily give them that cruel personality and the self righteousness of the fae. If you like it I'll write the idea out. It'll just be the fluff until we figure out how were going to do the races.

[Amechra]

Actually, to put a more unique twist on the Fey attacking travellers bit...

Maybe when someone is slain by a Fey, they are taken back to the Fey's burrow, where sinister machinery and magic converts them into a living elf; elves, though long lived, have no childhoods and are slaves to their Fey masters.

Using Virdish's idea as well, you could make it so that elves are a result of both processes, with Half-Born elves thinking themselves superior (a rigid caste system for players to free themselves and others from, perhaps? With Fey treating both groups as slaves, with the Dead-Born being the slaves of the Half-Born?)

Maybe there could be a squatter-empire of elves somewhere, where, though the idealistic elf that codified the laws there (fey are ultra-lawful, if you look at the stories; they follow their laws to the letter, and the punishment is... harsh) decreed an end to slavery, old habits die hard...

As for what happens when a Fey sleeps with an elf... who knows? Monsters could come out, or maybe it even cancels out their fey nature, resulting in a human child...

And I still like Magic Sword, though, of course, we could mix them up, like, I don't know, Sword of Orcus?

[Virdish]

Half-born elves should be able to mate and produce more elven offspring whereas dead born elves should not be able to mate since they're ability to mate died with their initial bodies.

[Amechra]

Half-born elves should be able to mate and produce more elven offspring whereas dead born elves should not be able to mate since they're ability to mate died with their initial bodies.

Good thought; that could totally be one of the things that the Half-Born point to when explaining their superiority.

[Virdish]

There should be some physical difference between the two subspecies as well with one of them (probably half-born) looking more like fae whilst the others look more like their human side.

[Amechra]

There should be some physical difference between the two subspecies as well with one of them (probably half-born) looking more like fae whilst the others look more like their human side.

Well, if by "human", you meant former race...

All differences should be fluff-or-appearance based, though; no dramatically separate elf subraces here!

I just thought of something... HB Elves can be "demoted" if they are killed. Just a thought.

[Virdish]

Yeah I was thinking just minor differences. And yeah I meant original race. That would be epic though. I really like this idea, hopefully chainsaw buys off on it.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Any setting ideas should be put in the comments section of the doc.

I think that before the full game is released, we should put out a decent sized adventure that contains rules and pre-gen characters, so people can try out the game. Think "Keep on the Shadowfell" for Magic Sword.

[Empedocles]

So is magic sword the name?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

So is magic sword the name?

Yup. I think it has a nice ring to it.

[eggs]

Is the goal to faithfully reproduce 4e as a basis for legal 3rd party support, or is it to make a distinct game based on the 4e mechanics?

I don't believe those goals are compatible.

[Vitruviansquid]

I like most of your design goals, but it seems to me that the execution is 90% of making a game.

I wait with bated breath.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Is the goal to faithfully reproduce 4e as a basis for legal 3rd party support, or is it to make a distinct game based on the 4e mechanics?

I don't believe those goals are compatible.

The goal is to create a better Fourth Edition that is usable by third party publishers, with a new implied setting to fill the gap left by the old one. By introducing changes, we will make it fell more like the original, since the new things we create will fill the void left by the things we would not be legally allowed to replicate.

So - in short - neither. If you want to know more, read the top and bottom and the google doc.

[Giegue]

Just to let you know, I am still interested in helping out with this. Do you have any ideas at all for classes/powers yet? If not, we should probably start working on that, since you can't really have a new 4e without classes not can you?

Also, since I am a Necromancy expert, I'd love to tackle the Necromancy wizard school. Unlike the Wizards version of the 4e Necromancer, which is a sup-par blaster, I was thinking of borrowing a bit from the "shadow done right" homebrew AND the 4e cleric undead animating powers. My idea was basically to combined the two, in a sense. Basically, the Necro specialist wizard would be a minionmaster-lite, having a handful of powers with the Minion keyword that could be used through undead minions the necro wizard summons. Unlike the shadow done right Necromancer, who just summons minions, I would make the wizard able to actually animate fallen foes. The Neco wizard's "animate dead" power could either animate fallen minions as skeletons that do not retain their powers in life, and could animate up to four of them, OR animate a single dead non-minion enemy as a zombie in a manner basically identical to servitude in death.

This allows the Necromancer to choose whether he wants a small squad of 1 HP skeleton minions or one rather nasty "brute" undead, which I think would be neat. Likewise, if the power being that flexible is too "OP" then you could make it two build options. A necro wizard could choose between "Animate dead" which creates skeleton minions or "Create Undead" which summons a single undead monstrosity. Likewise, the Necromancer could get both, but at different levels.

The "Minion" keyword need not be exclusive to wizards either. I can see a "tyrant/overlord" type warlord/martial build that is able to summon living minions that could also have some minion keyword powers as well.

However, if you don't like the "minion" idea as an add-on for the wizard, I could easily see it on a "Dread Necromancer" type class.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I have begun to work on the adventure. You can find what I have so far Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FvIj6PnBnYUaYlaMbLDL3sXG5PswdR5BDvwNq0riiRU/edit#).

Please tell me what you think.

[Giegue]

Seems interesting thus far. Though we should probably get the game finished before we work on fleshing out the adventure. Or we can do both at the same time. Whatever you think would be best. Either way, it looks like an interesting run to go through.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

We shall now buckle down and work on the classes. To start, we shall have a brainstorming session. The subject: the Cleric!

How should Domains work?

What should the starting Domains be?

What should the Cleric's advancement be like?

What kind of powers should the Cleric get?

What should we use as a base when building the Cleric?

[Virdish]

Domains should be more about giving them a unique feel and less about simply expanding their spell selection. A cleric of two different gods should simply play differently. Or well different domains.a clerics domains should signify which parts of his deities portfolio they choose to emulate. For instance a cleric with the undeath domain should be more focused on that theme then on healing. I think we should provide more support for the domains and less for the general side. This way you have a couple universal powers and spells but much more powers and spells that fit for his domain/s.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Domains should be more about giving them a unique feel and less about simply expanding their spell selection. A cleric of two different gods should simply play differently. Or well different domains.a clerics domains should signify which parts of his deities portfolio they choose to emulate. For instance a cleric with the undeath domain should be more focused on that theme then on healing. I think we should provide more support for the domains and less for the general side. This way you have a couple universal powers and spells but much more powers and spells that fit for his domain/s.

Agreed. Before we start designing domain powers, we should build a Cleric progression structure.

[Giegue]

Yeah. Also, a fun thing to do would be to have some of the cleric domains focus on different ability scores that fit within their theme. For example, a cleric with the magic domain may be wis and int-based instead of wis and cha/con-based. Also, while it may be something a tad odd, if you REALLY want to make domains feel different you COULD have some change the cleric's attack stat and use wis as the secondary. Death, in particular, seems like it could be made cha-primary, wis-secondary due to cha's association with necromancy. As for power advancement, I think that dividing domains into tiers that one reaches by advancement would be good.

Also, while clerics traditionally have been undead animators, the wizard, being a controller, seems more suited to the "minion-master" roll then the cleric. So, my solution? I was thinking that both the wizard and cleric could play with permanent undead, but in a different way. The wizard, being a controller who wants to gum up combat with pets, would be able to summon a small squad of undead minions(Literally...as in 1HP minions). The death cleric, however, would instead get one undead companion, and play almost like a 4e shaman, using powers through their one minion, much like the necro wizard could use powers through his small squad of undead mooks. You could even fully embrace the shaman route and have the cleric's minion be fluffed as more along the "ghost/spirit" line of undead rather then the "skeleton/zombie" one.

[Surrealistik]

I was thinking spell school specializations would work for wizards similarly to domains for clerics, defining automatic powers, and improving powers from their school.

As far as Necromancer wizards go, yeah, I thought a minion squad would be a good idea, not dissimilar from the power I used for my Necromancer subclass.

[Giegue]

Yeah, but what about the singular, shaman-esc undead companion for death clerics? Do you think that would be a neat angle for them?

[Surrealistik]

I like it, though it does set the bar kind of high for other domains.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Wisdom will always be the primary statistic for Clerics, but each domain will have an associated secondary statistic.

The Death and Undeath domains will be separate. Death will have nothing to do with undead minions (and will be potentially good or neutral), while Undeath will be all about summoning evil spirits.

[Giegue]

I see. In that case, the singular spirit minion idea could still work well for undeath, unless you had "spirit summoning" simply being normal powers fluffed as spirits doing stuff to allies and enemies.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

The doc has just received major updates. I have simultaneously started to build the system and the Cleric class.

Please tell me what you think.

[Surrealistik]

Would make the second defense bonus defined by the Domain. It's minor, but adds a nice touch of differentiation.

Would have Domain perhaps grant or pre-select a skill.

Perhaps have other parameter of the class like surges/HP also modified by Domain.

[Giegue]

It looks good so far. Seems good. I see that you are using 3.5e's armor system rather then 4e's. Anyway, I like class-based stat bonuses, and think that since we have them it may be wise to do away with racial stat bonuses. Mainly because if a cleric stacked a +wis race with their class they could achieve over 20 wisdom at level 1, which is somewhat troublesome OP wise, as it would entice people to only play + wis races on a cleric even more then standard 4e does. However, taking away racial ability score bonuses entirely eliminates this issue entirely, and makes this the only system in which any race can play any class as well as any other race. You would have total racial versatility.

Also, you mentioned "robed cultists" as a character type that could be a cleric, yet the cleric has no mechanical reason to wear robes. Perhaps certain domains should alter your proficiencies as well? Undeath seems like a good "cultist" domain and I could see it being restricted to robes and using Int as a secondary to make up for the lack of armor. Likewise, a "battle/war" type domain could give you heavy armor proficiency, and perhaps even a single martial weapon.

[Wiwaxia]

Wisdom will always be the primary statistic for Clerics, but each domain will have an associated secondary statistic.

The Death and Undeath domains will be separate. Death will have nothing to do with undead minions (and will be potentially good or neutral), while Undeath will be all about summoning evil spirits.

I'm not sure this is such a good idea. It seems like it could be hard to differentiate them, and I think it would be prudent to keep the total number of domains low (maybe only 5, one for each secondary stat).

In keeping with the design goal of having clerics fight better against enemies opposed to their deity's principals, each domain could have a list of anathema, specific monsters that a cleric of that domain would get bonuses when fighting. Iconic and powerful anathema (like liches for a hypothetical light domain) might even give clerics access to powers custom-tailored against them, or clerics could be able to ignore or negate some of their iconic abilities.

I don't think that non-monsters that violate a deities principals should give access to the same kind of bonuses or abilities, however.

Possible domains:
Death
Undead
War
Storm
Light
Sea
Harvest
Trickster (oh god so much fun)
Knowledge
Lordship
Birth/rebirth (could be lumped in with death, for maiden-mother-crone type deities)


Also, idea for potential druid class. I really love the primal classes and the idea of primal spirits in opposition to the gods, but I don't want them to be too happy nature hippie-y. I think the druid should be mysterious, sinister, and ominous, but not necessarily evil. They would deal not only in animals and nature spirits, but in blood magic, dark magic, wild magic, the ancient magics from before the first wizard set about trying to tame magic to her own ends, the bones of dead gods, and lore passed down from master to pupil over generations. I also like the idea, proposed in I think it was Primal Power, that if a good druid meets an evil druid, the first thing they do is talk about their gardens. It's not that they like eachother, or that they won't try to kill eachother afterwards, but being a druid comes first, and you do not ignore the ceremonies and rituals.

[Amechra]

Maybe this could find a home, perhaps? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232826)

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Perhaps races won't give ability score bonuses. Instead, each one could give a choice of at least two Encounter Utility Powers at levels 1, 6, 11, 16, 21, and 26, as well as a couple of skill bonuses and defence bonuses. This would make them more flexible, and would make them matter more at higher levels.

[toapat]

my first 2 comments are:

there is only one core defender and controller class each, while striker and support both have multiple classes

The setting needs one cliche of fantasy which dictates the entire setting, but this cliche is used as what we are supposed to expect, and what is not actually there. Faerun is cliche fantasy, and eberron turns the cliches so far that it goes full circle. What i would suggest is a setting inside a dyson sphere without day/night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere) that is also constructed of floating chunks of worldScrew that: Ravnica, City of guilds. World City. The Guildpact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravnica) BEST SETTING EVER

[Seerow]

Reading over the google doc now. I have to ask-Why fewer powers? I see the same thing came up in the comments on the doc, so I'm not the only one who thinks it's off. At high level play one of the most annoying things was how you had to trade out your powers instead of just getting new ones.

I am also not sure I like the idea of reducing hit points and healing surges. Maybe reducing them at low levels for the grittier higher lethality deal, but high level characters should be able to keep on trucking.


Also I notice you are planning on using the Advantage mechanic from 5e. If I might make a suggestion: Having one source of Advantage gets you +2 to the roll, having two sources of advantage lets you choose whether you want +2 on the roll or to roll the extra d20.

I suggest this because the advantage die is usually worth more than the +2 to hit (it averages around +3 overall, and peaks as high as +5), so this gives some degree of granularity. It also makes it so having one source of advantage doesn't make you instantly stop looking for opportunities like flanking. Allowing the choice means in those rare situations (generally where you need a 19-20 to hit) where it's better you can opt for the +2.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Things that I think should be carried over from non-Fourth Edition games:

Like in Fifth Edition, Combat Advantage will allow the attacker to roll twice, instead of giving a +2 bonus. I think this makes it matter more.
Like in Fifth Edition, there will be three types of armour. Light will allow full dex bonus to AC. Medium will allow half dex bonus. Heavy will allow no dex bonus.
Perhaps CMB and CMD from Pathfinder should be used?

[Dark Elf Bard]

Sorry, I've been busy. Here's a goblin, drow,elf, and half-elf....

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m54liktHNy1r3i394o1_500.jpg

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Sorry, I've been busy. Here's a goblin, drow,elf, and half-elf....

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m54liktHNy1r3i394o1_500.jpg

Can you do bodies and scenery?

[Dark Elf Bard]

I can do bodies. Scenery, not so much.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I can do bodies. Scenery, not so much.

Then it would probably be best if you were to help by drawing characters. When you have time, I would appreciate it if you were to draw one of the pre-gens from the starting adventure ...

A nephillim wizard in his forties with an unkempt goatee and long, wild hair. He is wearing tattered grey robes, embroidered with runes and covered in pockets. With one hand he is clutching a well-worn tome of spells, and with the other he is casting a spell. Blue arcane energy bleeds from his fingertips, the tome, and his wild eyes.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Can't wait! I'll start sketching now. And let me thank you profusely.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Can't wait! I'll start sketching now. And let me thank you profusely.

Thank me? You're the one drawing pictures for free! :smalltongue:

[Dark Elf Bard]

*works furiously*

What do you mean by "nephillim?"

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

*works furiously*

What do you mean by "nephillim?"

Nephilims are humans with supernatural blood. They might be part demon, part angel, part fae, part elemental, or something stanger. This guy is part fae.

Also, could you make it so he looks like he hasn't been having enough sleep for the last twenty or so years?

[Dark Elf Bard]

OKay! So I'll give him elfin ears and a slender build.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

OKay! So I'll give him elfin ears and a slender build.

Parfect! I don't want the picture to be too colourful. Think Brom (the guy who illustrated the War of the Spider Queen book covers).

[Wiwaxia]

Nephilims are humans with supernatural blood. They might be part demon, part angel, part fae, part elemental, or something stanger. This guy is part fae.

How does this tie in with the halfborn/deadborn elf idea proposed upthread, or are you not using that?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

How does this tie in with the halfborn/deadborn elf idea proposed upthread, or are you not using that?

I like it. I plan to give it some place in the setting, although I may not use it as it currently is.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Can you give me, maybe three or four more descriptions of the pre-generated characters for Magic Sword? I'll be online, but I might not have a scanner or internet for a week or two.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Ugh. Sorry about my absence. Most of my time had been taken up by friends, homework, and a crippling Skyrim addiction, not necessarily in that order.

I will get back to work on Magic Sword shortly.

[Giegue]

I am still in on this, and looking forward to more in-dept class design. So far we have the basics on the cleric, but still need to work out domains. Any ideas for the general structure of domains, people?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I am still in on this, and looking forward to more in-dept class design. So far we have the basics on the cleric, but still need to work out domains. Any ideas for the general structure of domains, people?

I already know how Domians will work. I just have other things to do before I really get to work on the game again. I plan to do so this Friday.

Domains will provide a +2 bonus to one ability score, a +2 bonus to two skills, an Encounter power, and extra powers to choose from at every level where powers are gained.

[Virdish]

I'm out. I hate to say this but you asked us to help yet you keep either telling us to use another site or not responding to ideas.

[Surrealistik]

Started on the Assassin class.

I made him stance/at-will based, essentials style.

What I've got done so far:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UyoRGlylKQ_SVntDQz-5mkeQEzuNQIoGgk6Kov2yzxc/edit#

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Started on the Assassin class.

I made him stance/at-will based, essentials style.

What I've got done so far:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UyoRGlylKQ_SVntDQz-5mkeQEzuNQIoGgk6Kov2yzxc/edit#

Its very good, but I have some nitpicks:

The formatting differs from the class formatting in the google doc. This is only a very minor issue that can be remedied easily.
Magic Sword does not use class skills. Any character can learn any skill.
In Magic Sword, classes grant ability score bonuses.
We need to scrub off the copyrighted terms, like the Shadowfell. (In the implied setting, I plan to call it the Grey.)
It would be best if we could find more ways to differentiate it from the 4e version.

Other than that, I love it! :smallbiggrin:

[Surrealistik]

As you can probably tell, I basically took the existing Shadow-sin of the original and improved upon its base mechanics (most of which are substantially altered).

I've since changed several of the feature names, added ability score modifications and changed the skill section.

[Surrealistik]

Renamed all of the remaining powers/elements from the original.

Added several stances.

Added several movement powers.

Removed Shadow Step.

Replaced Shade Form with Gloomcast.

Gave each guild a unique power, bonus skill, and ability bonus.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Currently working on an improved version of the Magic Sword Assassin. I'm working slowly, however, because I have other things to do. At the moment, I'm half way through writing a flavour blurb.

I can post a much-improved version two days from now.

[Surrealistik]

Finished up the stances and their progression; pretty satisfied with what's there for now.

Added guild specific kickers to Anathema Infusion.

Added guild specific attacks (ranged and melee basic). These are the basis of the assassin's offense.

[Surrealistik]

Added the Swift Spectre (speed + flexibility) and Intangible Wraith (limited flight + manoeuvrability) stances, bringing the total number up to 10.

[Wiwaxia]

I already know how Domians will work. I just have other things to do before I really get to work on the game again. I plan to do so this Friday.

Domains will provide a +2 bonus to one ability score, a +2 bonus to two skills, an Encounter power, and extra powers to choose from at every level where powers are gained.

Any thoughts on the anathema idea I proposed?

Further ideas:
Druids
Druids follow the same nonsense fairy-tale laws as the fey.
Druid blood magic: deal damage to themselves or allies for more power, gain power when they kill someone
Druids are the best at rituals (maybe even the only ritual users)
With a lock of someone’s hair, a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can glamour them to appear supernaturally ugly or beautiful for a day.
With clippings of someone’s fingernails, a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can make them supernaturally talented or clumsy for a day.
With seven drops of blood from someone’s right pinky a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can force them to only tell the truth (or tell the truth about certain topics) for a day. With seven drops of blood from someone’s left pinky a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can force them to only lie (or lie about certain topics) for a day.
With seven drops of someone’s hearts blood, a druid of a certain level can control their actions and emotions for a week. (they get to make a saving throw every day)


Fighters
Defender fighters of a certain level standing in the origin square of a burst or blast attack can take the attack as a critical hit and negate or reduce damage to everyone else in the area of affect. At a higher level they can shift to the origin square as a free action (maybe an immediate interrupt), then use this power.
Striker fighters of a certain level get to make a melee basic attack as a free action (maybe an immediate interrupt) against anyone who rolls a natural 1 while attacking them.
Fighters can lock up the battle field around them.
Fighters get more automatic, always on abilities as they level.
Fighters of a certain level can make a intimidate check to force nearby enemies to flee. At a higher level they can control where those enemies flee (so long as it isn’t immediately harmful)
Paladins as a Paragon Path (whatever we’re renaming those to) of fighters.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Something need doing on the artwork side of the realm?

I can do setting, creatures, and so on.

[Amechra]

I'm out. I hate to say this but you asked us to help yet you keep either telling us to use another site or not responding to ideas.

I concur; I am out as well.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Any thoughts on the anathema idea I proposed?

Further ideas:
Druids
Druids follow the same nonsense fairy-tale laws as the fey.
Druid blood magic: deal damage to themselves or allies for more power, gain power when they kill someone
Druids are the best at rituals (maybe even the only ritual users)
With a lock of someone’s hair, a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can glamour them to appear supernaturally ugly or beautiful for a day.
With clippings of someone’s fingernails, a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can make them supernaturally talented or clumsy for a day.
With seven drops of blood from someone’s right pinky a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can force them to only tell the truth (or tell the truth about certain topics) for a day. With seven drops of blood from someone’s left pinky a druid (maybe only a druid of a certain level) can force them to only lie (or lie about certain topics) for a day.
With seven drops of someone’s hearts blood, a druid of a certain level can control their actions and emotions for a week. (they get to make a saving throw every day)


Fighters
Defender fighters of a certain level standing in the origin square of a burst or blast attack can take the attack as a critical hit and negate or reduce damage to everyone else in the area of affect. At a higher level they can shift to the origin square as a free action (maybe an immediate interrupt), then use this power.
Striker fighters of a certain level get to make a melee basic attack as a free action (maybe an immediate interrupt) against anyone who rolls a natural 1 while attacking them.
Fighters can lock up the battle field around them.
Fighters get more automatic, always on abilities as they level.
Fighters of a certain level can make a intimidate check to force nearby enemies to flee. At a higher level they can control where those enemies flee (so long as it isn’t immediately harmful)
Paladins as a Paragon Path (whatever we’re renaming those to) of fighters.

Loving most of that. The only six classes in the core book will be Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, Occultist, and Mashal (since there are only so many hours in a day), but I see no reason not to include other classes in supplements. The fist classes I want to include in supplements are the Druid, the Assassin, and the Barbarian: three archetypes not sufficiently represented in the Core Book.


Something need doing on the artwork side of the realm?

I can do setting, creatures, and so on.

Thank you! Can I see some of your art?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Thank you! Can I see some of your art?

Ummm....you've seen it. I offered my services on page 1, and you never got back to me about what I should be doing. ^^;

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Ummm....you've seen it. I offered my services on page 1, and you never got back to me about what I should be doing. ^^;

Ah! Sorry. Creatures are great. Could you draw a redcap in colour, please?

NOTE: I'm going for a sort of stark, gritty, washed-out colour scheme for the game. Think Skyrim.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Ah! Sorry. Creatures are great. Could you draw a redcap in colour, please?

NOTE: I'm going for a sort of stark, gritty, washed-out colour scheme for the game. Think Skyrim.

While I do not own the game (as I am lacking of funds) I shall cross-reference color schemes. Full creature, no background?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

While I do not own the game (as I am lacking of funds) I shall cross-reference color schemes. Full creature, no background?

Yes. That would be perfect. The primary colours of the game will be grey, blue, and green, although others will be used sparingly.

It would also probably be good to check This (https://www.google.ca/search?q=skyrim&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=W2vbT8vmMqvE2QXHt8jZCA&ved=0CFUQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=799#hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=skyrim+concept+art&oq=skyrim+concept+art&aq=f&aqi=g6g-S4&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0l6j0i24l4.143081.146881.0.147370.12.9 .0.3.3.0.262.1590.0j7j2.9.0...0.0.qw0QTk50udU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7cd15ade3874d716&biw=1600&bih=799) out.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Pretty much all of the document has been revised, refined, and expanded. It is certainly worth checking out. Also, new text-based character sheet, and major updates to the Tomb of Oberon adventure.

[Giegue]

I like the domain idea. I actually really like the domain idea. I like it because it's elegant and simple, and less restrictive then the warpriest domains that literally created your character for you. Anyway... here is some random ideas for the wizard class. This is ALL rough, random ideas, and no way meant to be final. Just thought I would post this up, though, so a discussion on the wizard can start.


Random wizard ideas:

Role: Controller, Striker(depending on build)
Saves: Will +2
Proficiencies: Robes, Simple melee, Simple Ranged. No armor or shields
Implements: Orb, Staff, Wand, Tome
Key ability scores: Intelligence, one other(based on school selection)
Ability Score Bonus: +2 Int, +2 to one other(based on school)
Hit Points at 1st level: 10 + Con Modifier
Hit Points at each other level: 4
Healing Surges: 4+ Con Mod

Skills: Arcana, and 3 others of your choice. You get another skill at level 11 and another at level 21.

Features:

Cantrips: As the standard 4e cantrips mechanics.

Spellbook: As the 4e mage spellbook(so holds encounter powers as well as daily and utility powers)

Arcane School:

Arcane schools would grant +2 to additional ability score dictated by the school and also would also grant unique powers to the wizard. One would be an encounter or at-will, which would be the defining power of the build in some way. Schools may also add a utility power too, if that's not too broken. However, if a utility and encounter/at-will is to much then it could just grant some skill bonuses instead. Schools would also give the wizard access to school/build specific powers when they gain new powers from leveling up.

Wizard powers would all be divided into schools, and wizards could take some powers from schools that they are not specialized in. However, only some powers from each school would be available to all wizards. The "stronger" and build-specific powers in each school would be available to only specialists in that school. So, for example a "Create Undead" type power, or a minion keyword necromancy power if we go that route could be only taken by a specialist necromancer while something like, say, Cause Fear could be taken by anybody. This is very much in line with the fluff of wizards in older editions. Specialists while they focused in one school could still cast some spells from other schools. Continuing that tradition for Magic Sword would be nice. In fact, if you REALLY wanted to continue that flavor you could buff up the power level of schools some and in return bring back the "banned schools" mechanic that would make it so wizards choose two schools they cannot select any powers from.

OTHER POSSIBLE FEATURES:

Ritual Caster/equivalent:

If we ever plan on re-working the ritual system, it seems appropriate that wizards would be the best at playing with rituals. If the ritual system is reworked in such a way where a feat is not needed to play with rituals, this may not be necessary, though if that is the case I could see wizards getting some kind of ability that makes them "better" at rituals then other classes.

OR

Familiar:

This can either be a feat or a class feature. Not fully sure if this should be included, but if we do not plan on re-working the ritual system or just don't want to have class features dealing with rituals this could be a replacement for it. Familiars would not be combatants, but would provide skill bonuses as in 3.5e and possibly some other abilities useful to the wizard. Could possibly also have a penalty for losing them like 3.5e, and could possibly come in item form not much unlike pathfinder.


Again, these are all rough, random ideas, so take them as you will.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

*Snip!*

Looks good. I shall reference this when building the Wizard.

Also, how does it sound for the Occultist to have lots of Rushes, but spend Rushes on attacks?

[Surrealistik]

So far as rituals go, I definitely recommend this approach I've house ruled:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188861

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I just wrote a post on my blog about Magic Sword (http://ultimatejosha.blogspot.ca/2012/06/magic-sword-fourth-edition-reborn.html). Its worth reading.


So far as rituals go, I definitely recommend this approach I've house ruled:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188861

Looks great. I shall draw from your house rule when designing the ritual system.

[Giegue]

Also, as for secondary ability scores for schools, here's my ideas for what would work best for each...

Enchantment: Charisma. This one is kinda obvious since enchantment spells deal most with social interaction and similar things. This is a no brainier, really. I mean, what kind of enchanter can't manipulate people. This just fits, and in 4e enchanters made use of charisma and social skills a lot so this makes a very nice nod to the 4e enchanter.

Illusion: Dexterity. Why? Because despite 4e having illusionist mages be wis secondary, Illusion always seemed to be the school most associated with trickery and deception. Thus, to shake things up I thought it would be interesting to make illusionists "trickster mages" not much unlike a beguiler from 3.5e. Dexterity is used for many "trickster" skills such as stealth and slight of hand and since a wizard can now pick up these skills due to your new skill system, it just seems to make sense for illusionist to be dex-based to use such skills.(Also, class bonuses to stealth and slight of hand are probably good skills to give a bonus to if schools will give skill bonuses.)

Necromancy: Charisma. Why? For a nod back to older editions of D&D. Out of all the ability scores, charisma is the one most associated with Necromancy. In 3.5e the Dread Necromancer uses cha as a casting stat. Rebuking is based off of cha. Heck, undead even used charisma for con checks and many, many other uses. Also, necromancers being good manipulators of people fits very, very well with their usually villainous roll.

Conjuration: Constitution. If conjuration will have the bulk of summoning powers, then this makes the most mechanical sense as higher con means harder to kill summons. In addition, the 4e summoner was con-secondary, and this would be a very nice nod to the 4e summoner fluff-wise.

Divination: Wisdom. This is, again, painfully obvious fluff wise. Divination reveals information from the future, and gives the wizard INSIGHT into events. Divination essentially reveals to the wizard wisdom, which makes wis the perfect secondary for divination fluff wise. I don't know why, but wisdom just really seems to fit divination for me.

Transmutation: Constitution. Lets face it, if your going to mutate yourself, transform yourself into a monster and use magic to mess with your body on a regular basis it probably makes sense for you to have a healthy body. Otherwise your chances of surviving such things would probably be slim. Con just fits transmutation like wisdom fits divination.

Evocation: Dexterity. This one was difficult for me to think of. Evocation has never really been associated with an ability score. However, it is associated with blasting, combat and damage dealing, and thus I felt dexterity was appropriate. An Evoker to me is a "battle wizard" who uses magic primarily for combat, and since you said you did not want wizards to be good at melee(so strength secondary is out of the picture.) dexterity fits the "combat mage" roll best. I mean, if I where a mage focused on being effective in combat I'd want to be able to dodge attacks well, move quickly across the battlefield and start the fight first.

Abjuration: Wisdom. Again, this one was kinda difficult for me to decide. Abjuration has never really been tied to any ability score theme-wise. However, since abjuration is all about defense and counterspelling, wisdom was the best fit for me. Somebody with high wisdom would be more likely to realize that they should always be ready to defend themselves and have contingencies for when things go wrong, and as a result wisdom thus seemed fitting for abjuration. However, if you have a better idea for a score for this school I'm all ears.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Also, as for secondary ability scores for schools, here's my ideas for what would work best for each...

Enchantment: Charisma. This one is kinda obvious since enchantment spells deal most with social interaction and similar things. This is a no brainier, really. I mean, what kind of enchanter can't manipulate people. This just fits, and in 4e enchanters made use of charisma and social skills a lot so this makes a very nice nod to the 4e enchanter.

Illusion: Dexterity. Why? Because despite 4e having illusionist mages be wis secondary, Illusion always seemed to be the school most associated with trickery and deception. Thus, to shake things up I thought it would be interesting to make illusionists "trickster mages" not much unlike a beguiler from 3.5e. Dexterity is used for many "trickster" skills such as stealth and slight of hand and since a wizard can now pick up these skills due to your new skill system, it just seems to make sense for illusionist to be de3x-based to use such skills.(Also, class bonuses to stealth and slight of hand are probably good skills to give a bonus to if schools will give skill bonuses.)

Necromancy: Charisma. Why? For a nod back to older editions of D&D. Our of all the ability scores, charisma is the one most associated with Necromancy. In 3.5e the Dread Necromancer uses cha as a casting stat. Rebuking is based off of cha. Heck, undead even used charisma for con checks and many, many other uses. Also, necromancers being good manipulators of people fits very, very well with their usually villainous roll.

Conjuration: Constitution. If conjuration will have the bulk of summoning powers, then this makes the most mechanical sense as higher con means harder to kill summons. In addition, the 4e summoner was con-secondary, and this would be a very nice nod to the 4e summoner fluff-wise.

Divination: Wisdom. This is, again, painfully obvious fluff wise. Divination reveals information from the future, and gives the wizard INSIGHT into events. Divination essentially reveals to the wizard wisdom, which makes wis the perfect secondary for divination fluff wise. I don't know why, but wisdom just really seems to fit divination for me.

Transmutation: Constitution. Lets face it, if your going to mutate yourself, transform yourself into a monster and use magic to mess with your body on a regular basis it probably makes sense for you to have a healthy body. Otherwise your chances of surviving such things would probably be slim. Con just fits transmutation like wisdom fits divination.

Evocation: Dexterity. This one was difficult for me to think. Evocation has never really been associated with an ability score. However, it is associated with blasting, combat and damage dealing, and thus I felt dexterity was appropriate. An Evoker to me is a "battle wizard" who uses magic primarily for combat, and since you said you did not want wizards to be good at melee(so strength secondary is out of the picture.) dexterity fits the "combat mage" roll best. I mean, if I where a mage focused on being effective in combat I'd want to be able to dodge attacks well, move quickly across the battlefield and start the fight first.

Abjuration: Wisdom. Again, this one was kinda difficult for me to decide. Abjuration has never really been tied to any ability score theme-wise. However, since evocation is all about defense and counterspelling, wisdom was the best fit for me. Somebody with high wisdom would be more likely to realize that they should always be ready to defend themselves and have contingencies for when things go wrong, and as a result wisdom thus seemed fitting for abjuration. However, if you have a better idea for a score for this school I'm all ears.

I agree with all of this, pretty much 100%. However, in the Core Book, the only supported schools will be Enchantment, Evocation, Conjuration, and Necromancy. Later, other schools will be added.

[Surrealistik]

First off, no secondary abilities should overlap with the primary unless you want to kludge in a fix like using Dex or half of Intelligence in place of Cha/Wis/Con/Str for Will or Fortitude.

Third, my take on the schools and their secondaries where they deviate from the above:

Illusion: Charisma. I don't feel this needs explanation.

Necromancy: Constitution or Charisma should work for this one; force of will or force of spirit.

Evocation: Constitution. I'd always imagined wizards from this school tapping into both physical and mental reserves to invoke huge blasts of eviscerating power.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

First off, no secondary abilities should overlap with the primary unless you want to kludge in a fix like using Dex or half of Intelligence in place of Cha/Wis for Will or Fortitude.

Third, my take on the schools and their secondaries where they deviate from the above:

Illusion: Charisma. I don't feel this needs explanation.

Necromancy: Constitution or Charisma should work for this one; force of will or force of spirit.

Evocation: Constitution. I'd always imagined wizards from this school tapping into both physical and mental reserves to invoking huge blasts of eviscerating power.

Fair enough, but I would still prefer to use Dextarity for evocation. Perhaps a high Dextarity could add a bit of extra damage ...

[Giegue]

I personally prefer Cha over Con for Necromancy. Mainly because of the fact I feel a Necromancer should be a good manipulator seeing the roll necromancers usually play, and as you said, the fluff fits. Also, Surrealistik, I do like your take on the Necromancer that's in your sig, and when we do get to working on making the features I think your necromancer could be a good starting point, though we will have to make it less "leader' and more "controller" and probably will do away with necrofocus and other exclusive mechanics for the sake of streamlining the school/class.

[Surrealistik]

It's true that certain mechanics would need to be shaved from an archetype that shares its class with so many others. That said, I definitely see a Necro as being primary controller, secondary leader.

Second, I'm not so sure I see why Necromancers should be Cha exclusive; I don't see all of them as manipulators and schemers. In fact, the idea of a Necro as being aloof, introverted, and otherwise happy to keep to itself (most likely the 'good' kind), is a pretty strong one. I say Necros should be able to use either Con or Cha as their secondary.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Hey Chainsaw?

What's the next base character?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Hey Chainsaw?

What's the next base character?

A human Marshal clad in furs and leather armour, with a wild, unkempt beard and limbs like tree-trunks. He grasps his oversized blade in one hand, and beacons his allies forth with the other.

Also, do you have the drawing of the wizard? If so, I would like to see it, please.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Major updates to the Marhsal class near the bottom of the doc.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I have begun to work on the system again. Do you think surprise rounds should be made more potent?

[Dark Elf Bard]

Definitely. I mean, if someone jumps into a room that you're standing in and slashes at you, without any warning?

Yeah.

Also, I'll scan in the wizard soon. It's a black-and-white- drawing, inked, yet I have no coloring system.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Definitely. I mean, if someone jumps into a room that you're standing in and slashes at you, without any warning?

Yeah.

Also, I'll scan in the wizard soon. It's a black-and-white- drawing, inked, yet I have no coloring system.

Thank you so much for the drawing.

I made it so that if one gets a surprise round, they can take a full turn, not just a single action. They also get Combat Advantage during the surprise round, which has become more significant.

Now the element of surprise is a major advantage, rather than just a minor perk.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Scratch the inking. I thought I did. But I didn't.

Will ink later.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m63mdr3gEI1r3i394o1_500.jpg

..yeah, um, not great.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Scratch the inking. I thought I did. But I didn't.

Will ink later.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m63mdr3gEI1r3i394o1_500.jpg

..yeah, um, not great.

It has potential. A couple more takes, and it could be good.

[Dark Elf Bard]

What should I change, besides inking?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

The arms are a bit long. Also, it might look better from a three-quarter perspective.

[LordErebus12]

The arms are a bit long. Also, it might look better from a three-quarter perspective.

id agree with the arm

[Dark Elf Bard]

'Kay, I'll start a new one.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

'Kay, I'll start a new one.

Great! I anticipate eagerly.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Is the magic and hair and all that stiff fine?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Is the magic and hair and all that stiff fine?

The magic is great. The hair could be 25% shorter.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Sounds good. I may remedy the book a little as well...

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Sounds good. I may remedy the book a little as well...

Good idea.

[Gligarman2]

I thought fourth edition was alright, but I really would like a job. I am an avid artist working on learning photoshop. I will work for free. If you need any jobs, just put them on this thread to Gligarman2. I will post images on this forum, or if you have an alternative, that's fine. Could I please work with you? I really like your guts and ambition. Good luck!

[Dark Elf Bard]

YOU"RE STEALING MY WORK! *sneak attack*

Naw, It's great to have another artist in the crew!

Also CH I'm going for it on a frontal view on the wizard...

[Gligarman2]

Thanks Bard! I am looking for a new style, and I will incorporate parts of your work. Your stuff is just as valid to me as Luke McKay's stuff or that guy who works with Linkara! Be proud.:smallsmile:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I thought fourth edition was alright, but I really would like a job. I am an avid artist working on learning photoshop. I will work for free. If you need any jobs, just put them on this thread to Gligarman2. I will post images on this forum, or if you have an alternative, that's fine. Could I please work with you? I really like your guts and ambition. Good luck!

Sir, I wish I had ten more like you! Let's see some work, soldier!

:smallwink::smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

[Giegue]

Yeah. Glad to see we have more artists on this. I would offer some of my art up, but I don't feel my style fits the game at all since I tend to draw in a somewhat simplified anime style, and I don't really see my heavily manga/anime-ish style fitting a normal fantasy RPG. :smallfrown:

Either way glad to see we have more devoted artists on the project.

[Gligarman2]

Sir, I wish I had ten more like you! Let's see some work, soldier!

:smallwink::smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

What do you need, sir? Happy to work on an indie RPG!

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

What do you need, sir? Happy to work on an indie RPG!

Well, here is a list of the iconic characters, and their appearances:


A male nephillim Wizard (Enchantment school) in his forties with fair features and greying hair who looks sleep-deprived. He is part fae. Check out the art of Changeling: the Lost for inspiration.
A female dwarf Fighter (Guardian style) wearing heavy armour and wielding a warhammer and shield. Remember that the dwarves of Magic Sword look different.
A female ravenfolk Cleric (Death domain) wielding a sickle in one hand and wearing an hourglass around her neck. She is wearing robes.
A make halfling Rogue wearing gypsy garb, holding a knife in one hand and a hand-crossbow in the other. He should look agile and well-muscled.
A male human Marshal (Aggressive Commander command style) clad in furs, wearing a necklace of fangs, and hefting a greatsword. He should have a sort of Norse look about him.
A male elf Occultist (Fae pact) with paper-white skin, shoulder-length black hair, and orange eyes. He is holding a scimitar in one hand, and casting a spell with the other. The magical energy is the same orange as his eyes.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I apologise for my absence. I am back, and working on the game. You will see that the System section has been updated.

In fact, if you open up the doc in the near future, you will probably see me actively working on it.

[Dark Elf Bard]

I'm taking a break from the wizard, and starting the halfling gypsy. Gligarman2, you're welcome to takea crack at the wizard if you want to.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I would like everyone to draw a version of each iconic (although they can certainly take their time), and then I can choose which I like best.


_/ _/ _/

Also, crazy idea: we should vote on the game's official band. And then we can all listen to that band while working on it, to all get in the same headspace.

I vote Motorhead.

Votes:
Motorhead 1
No Official Band 1

[Gligarman2]

I vote any.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I just made flanking easier to achieve. Now, instead of having to be on opposite sides of the target, you need simply to both be adjacent to it, but not to each-other.

[Surrealistik]

I just made flanking easier to achieve. Now, instead of having to be on opposite sides of the target, you need simply to both be adjacent to it, but not to each-other.

I like it.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I like it.

My idea was to further encourage team-based strategy, so that working with one's companions is more important than ever.

Also, many attack powers will now have a cool extra effect when made witch combat advantage.

[Dark Elf Bard]

What? Have you forgotten my lovely race in the class list? Are drow so easily forgotten?

Also, for bands I vote for Ozzie Osbourne- specifically, Crazy Train. Seriously, listen to that and imagine a montage of assassins, warriors, gladiators, wizards, and barbarians. Really.

Try it and tell me what you think.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

What? Have you forgotten my lovely race in the class list? Are drow so easily forgotten?

Tragically, the grumpy old Wizards consider the drow as they are currently portrayed to be product identity. We could include some kind of weird modified version, but that that point, why not just make another race?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

My idea for death and dying rules:

When you fail a death saving throw, you lose a Rush (the equivalent of a Healing Surge). If you have no Rushes, you die.

My goal to to better represent the fact that the character is bleeding out. If they are brought back to positive hit points, they are still weakened from blood loss.

What do you think?

[Dark Elf Bard]

Perfect!


As a lowly artist, I would like to offer this as a 4e player:


Perfect!

But can you spend them as you die?

And are you unconscious as you die?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Perfect!


As a lowly artist, I would like to offer this as a 4e player:


Perfect!

But can you spend them as you die?

And are you unconscious as you die?

You are unconscious as you die. While dying, you cannot use Second Wind, but you can be healed.

Also, bare in mind that characters now have about 6 Rushes, unlike in original 4e, where they had 8 or 9.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Do the Rushes heal for more, or are they just supposed to be forced to be more careful in combat?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Do the Rushes heal for more, or are they just supposed to be forced to be more careful in combat?

Rushes heal the same amount. The heroes now have a more limited supply in order to add a greater sense of danger.

[Dark Elf Bard]

That sounds good.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Now that the game is shaping up, we should talk about how it will be presented. I would very much like the essentials to come in a single oversized volume, roughly 400 pages long.

It would contain an explanation of roleplaying, setting information, character creation instructions, game rules, Game Mastering advice, monsters, and one or two sample delves.

Does that sound good?

[Surrealistik]

I'm going to be honest, I don't think you should touch surges/HP at all. You should just have monster damage scale properly.

In 4e they get +1 to damage per level.

Meanwhile PC HP scales anywhere from +4 to +7 per level.

The problem is obvious; so is the solution.

Increase monster damage output to +4-5 per level beyond the first.


That said, I don't mind your dying idea at all, though I'm a little concerned about its potential to slow games down and burden them with PCs seeking out Extended Rests due to 'surge' loss via death saves.

[Gligarman2]

Hi, CannibalHobbit, it's me, Gligarman2, that artist. I noticed you wrote that you wanted to give halflings a "Gypsy-feel." Please change that to a more accurate term describing what you have in your head. It is completely impossible to draw a halfling for you without clarification.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Meanwhile PC HP scales anywhere from +4 to +7 per level.

The problem is obvious; so is the solution.

Increase monster damage output to +4-5 per level beyond the first.

This works, but only provided each monster survives for only a single attack or two. Otherwise, at 1 attack, a monster has already eaten through a PC's level bonus health (due to bonus damage equaling/matching PC health bonuses), and all extra damage just kill them faster than before. With more monsters, this becomes a dying spiral.

Perhaps 1-4 bonus damage, depending on role: tougher monsters who will live for more rounds get less extra damage, while squishy monsters may get +4 or +5 per level. This has the added bonus of being more incentive to prioritize high-damage targets, as they are more and more dangerous as you level.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Hi, CannibalHobbit, it's me, Gligarman2, that artist. I noticed you wrote that you wanted to give halflings a "Gypsy-feel." Please change that to a more accurate term describing what you have in your head. It is completely impossible to draw a halfling for you without clarification.

I mean that halflings are nomads who have tatoos, tell fortunes, tavel around in caravans, have piercings, wear cloth, and have black hair and brown skin. Many also throw knives.

[Surrealistik]

This works, but only provided each monster survives for only a single attack or two. Otherwise, at 1 attack, a monster has already eaten through a PC's level bonus health (due to bonus damage equaling/matching PC health bonuses), and all extra damage just kill them faster than before. With more monsters, this becomes a dying spiral.

Perhaps 1-4 bonus damage, depending on role: tougher monsters who will live for more rounds get less extra damage, while squishy monsters may get +4 or +5 per level. This has the added bonus of being more incentive to prioritize high-damage targets, as they are more and more dangerous as you level.

I'm not sure how lethal Chainsaw wants to get; whether he simply wants to maintain L1 deadliness (all other things being equal) or have monsters get _more_ damaging as levels increase, but I erred on the side of lethality.

Artillery and Lurkers, the lower HP classes already have built in incentives in that they're more accurate and chiefly ranged (Artillery) or deal lots of spike damage and are hittable roughly half the time (Lurkers) as design conventions. Perhaps we could stand to further formalize monster design and roles though.

If roughly maintaining L1 deadliness is the objective, assuming your average standard monster versus your average party lasts 3-4 hits, I'd increase the damage increment per level to +2 up from +1. Otherwise +3-5 is better.

I personally like +4 to account for all the additional synergies, healing powers, and other tricks PCs will gain access to as they level up, or perhaps we could do it by tier:

Heroic (levels 1-10): +3 damage per level.
Paragon (levels 11-20): +4 damage per level.
Epic (levels 21+): +5 damage per level.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Heroic (levels 1-10): +3 damage per level.
Paragon (levels 11-20): +4 damage per level.
Epic (levels 21+): +5 damage per level.
I like this. One of my goals is to add a greater sense of danger to the game, especially at higher levels, so that victory is that much more thrilling.


Hi, CannibalHobbit
Not my name.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Someone else (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?609336-4E-The-Retro-Clone) started making a Fourth Edition clone, and then had a fit and gave up. The thread is still full of interesting discussion, though, and worth checking out.

Chronoplasm, the man behind the other attempt, has much talent, despite not being well-suited to leading the project. I wouldn't mind having him on the team. Based on what he said, I think he might enjoy Magic Sword.

Does anyone know about other attempts at cloning Fourth Edition? I would much like to see them.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

The entire document has been re-formatted and re-written. Definitely worth skimming.

[Surrealistik]

Started on the Rogue.

Decided to go the route of 'Specializations', which will strongly influence how the rogue is played.

All of them have Sneak Attack in common however, as well as a broad diversity of skills:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dHvEu7-EkFV_9VZ4Rw7pcG5Ro2n4IudeiT26mkvRXzY/edit#

[Gligarman2]

I like this. One of my goals is to add a greater sense of danger to the game, especially at higher levels, so that victory is that much more thrilling.


Not my name.

So Sorry. Slip of the tongue.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

So Sorry. Slip of the tongue.

Its fine. I overreacted. Don't worry about it.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Why in the world do rogues have bows?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Why in the world do rogues have bows?

Is Haley Starshine not awesome? Also, the sneaky sniper is iconic.

Not all rogues have bows. Its just a build.

[Surrealistik]

I'm personally down with the idea of a 'sniper' rogue using a giant crossbow to pick his targets.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I'm personally down with the idea of a 'sniper' rogue using a giant crossbow to pick his targets.

It this point, I'm pretty sure the bow and crossbow will be mechanically identical, so that will be a flavour choice on the player's part.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I have created enough Marshall material that one could build a level 1 Marshall of any build. How do you think it balances against the 4e Warlord?

Feedback would be HIGHLY appreciated.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I am actively setting up a kickstarter funding thing. The money will be used to pay freelance artists. If the funding is successful, I would be more than happy to pay the artists currently working for free.

However, we are in need of a promotional video. I am not confident in my own ability to make one, so I am asking for help. Anyone willing to make a video would have my eternal gratitude.

Finally, I ask you to - if at all possible - donate. Every dollar helps.

[Dark Elf Bard]

I notice a disturbing lack of fluff description.

Might you need some written?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I notice a disturbing lack of fluff description.

Might you need some written?

In what area? Also, would you be interested in making a video?

[Dark Elf Bard]

Anywhere! I really like to write. Classes, races, fight descriptions,... anywhere!

Video... animation or live action?

[Gligarman2]

Anywhere! I really like to write. Classes, races, fight descriptions,... anywhere!

Video... animation or live action?

Well, you're more talented than me. I can only write papers, and stuff. I really like drawing though, so I am glad you are taking over the non-drawing bits.

(Note: I would really like to see this video. Please add a link.)

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Well, you're more talented than me. I can only write papers, and stuff. I really like drawing though, so I am glad you are taking over the non-drawing bits.

(Note: I would really like to see this video. Please add a link.)

There is no video at the moment. I'm looking for someone to make one.

It really just needs to be a promotional video that explains the project - animated or live action. Nothing fancy.

Indiegogo won't let us launch the campaign until we have one. And I can't use kickstarter because I live in Canada.

[Surrealistik]

Updated the Rogue specializations. Replaced the Enforcer with the Skirmisher.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I have started building the human race. I have the fluff, as well as level 1 and level 6 racial powers. Soon I will add more powers and some racial feats.

I would appreciate feedback on the fluff as much as I would crunch. Also, bare in mind that I am making racial powers marginally more powerful.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Dropped you a PM about this project, Chainsaw Hobbit. :smallbiggrin:

[Gligarman2]

Mr. Hobbit,

I have a plan to go about the iconic characters. (Speaking of which, is background needed?) I plan to draw each of them in photoshop over the next few weeks, and every week do line art and background with my beloved mentor. Is this acceptable?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Mr. Hobbit,

I have a plan to go about the iconic characters. (Speaking of which, is background needed?) I plan to draw each of them in photoshop over the next few weeks, and every week do line art and background with my beloved mentor. Is this acceptable?

Of course it is acceptable.

Also, I am leaving them intentionally name and background free.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Djinn in Tonic asked me to remove his quote, so I did.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

So you can't Pathfinder it

then Fantasycraft it

It shall be done!

[Gligarman2]

Hey, Mr. Hobbit, as your imp-artist totally not bound to a desk, is there going to be a print or PDF sourcebook. If so, what credit will be given? Do you know what art will be used? How many sourcebooks?

Thanks.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Gligarman, do you have a coloring program for your drawings?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Hey, Mr. Hobbit, as your imp-artist totally not bound to a desk, is there going to be a print or PDF sourcebook. If so, what credit will be given? Do you know what art will be used? How many sourcebooks?

Thanks.

The game is probably not going to be distributed in solid form, but there will certainly be PDFs. The artists will receive credit. I'm not sure how many supplement books there will be, or what art will be used.

[Gligarman2]

Gligarman, do you have a coloring program for your drawings?

Yeah. I use Photoshop. Why, fellow artist?:smallconfused:

[Dark Elf Bard]

Oh, I was just wondering if you might try to color one of my drawings?

If, you have the spare time?

[Gligarman2]

I may be able to. Just put a link to a jpg, jpeg, or other and I'll see. Mutual respect, and all.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Thanks!:smallsmile:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Crazy idea that may or may not be popular:

Magic Sword only has 10 levels. Demigods, deities, archfiends, and elder dragons are levels 11-15. However, characters are about as powerful as Fourth Edition characters of equivalent level.

There are three xp advancement tracks. Fast (which is identical to Fourth Edition advancement), Normal (which is half the speed), and Slow (one third the speed).

I'm not dead set on the idea. Its just something I wanted to put out there.

[Dark Elf Bard]

So, for one campaign the DM will choose an xp track for the whole party, depending on how fast they want the party to level up?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

So, for one campaign the DM will choose an xp track for the whole party, depending on how fast they want the party to level up?

Yes. I stole the idea from Pathfinder.

[Surrealistik]

Crazy idea that may or may not be popular:

Magic Sword only has 10 levels. Demigods, deities, archfiends, and elder dragons are levels 11-15. However, characters are about as powerful as Fourth Edition characters of equivalent level.

There are three xp advancement tracks. Fast (which is identical to Fourth Edition advancement), Normal (which is half the speed), and Slow (one third the speed).

I'm not dead set on the idea. Its just something I wanted to put out there.

Don't like it. Way too radical a departure.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Don't like it. Way too radical a departure.

I see where you are coming from, and the 10 levels are not carved in stone. However, I would like to submit some food for thought:

In the D&D Fourth Edition Neverwinter Campaign Setting, the Wizards besically did what I just proposed, only on a less official level. All characters, if I recall correctly, were levels 1 to 10, even though that didn't fit with the rest of the cannon. And it worked beautifully.

10th level characters are already pretty superhuman. A 10th level fighter can absorb a staggering amount of damage, preform martial disciplines that are physically impossible, and put up a good fight against a house-sized dragon. A tenth level cleric and bring companions back from the dead and call down the wrath of his god to smite hordes of foes at once. A 10th level wizard can teleport and cast epic magic.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I compiled a list of major differences between Fourth Edition and Magic Sword.


The number of healing surges the heroes posses will be reduced, and monsters will deal more damage at higher levels.
Weapons and armour will be simplified.
Most classes will be flexible enough to fill at least two different roles, depending on build.
Flanking will be easier to achieve, and Combat Advantage will mean more.
Mechanics will be streamlined and refined wherever possible.
The GM will be given greater control whenever possible.
The implied setting will now draw mainly from Celtic, Irish, Welsh, and Scottish folklore (since I'm a nerd for that).
The way races effect characters will be completely changed, and will now be more flexible.
Alignments will be completely removed.
Many mechanics will be renamed, for both legal and thematic reasons.
Non-combat challenges will receive greater emphasis, and will now be given almost as much attention as combat.


How does this sound?

[Gligarman2]

Found Imageshack. Just a question. Once you get my Dwarf Fighter on this thread, can you please save it to your computer and inform me so I can take it from Imageshack.

[Gligarman2]

http://http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/dwarffighterchickrecove.jpg/

[Gligarman2]

I hate to triple-post, but is anyone else unable to see the drawing I posted?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I hate to triple-post, but is anyone else unable to see the drawing I posted?

The image seems to be broken.

[Dark Elf Bard]

http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/27/dwarffighterchickrecove.jpg/

Can't see it.

[Gligarman2]

http://http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d56mt5h

Can anyone see this? If so, could Chainsaw Hobbit save it to his disk drive and inform me, so I can take it from DeviantArt?

[Dark Elf Bard]

It's really too bad I can't see it! I really want to!

[Gligarman2]

Why can't anyone see it? Should I be using a different site? What is the problem? In the absence of help, please go to this website: http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d56mt5h


(The absence of background was required.)

So, what do my boss and fellow artists think?

[Dark Elf Bard]

I LOVE your coloring style. I LOVEITLOVELOVEIT. Th eyes are very nice, too. And the way the shield sits on the body is very natural.


I would suggest using a ruler to keep your lines straight. Also, maybe [ractice drawing hands. Hands, hands hands. Fill a whole sheet of paper with sketches of your hand. Also, you might want to make the hammer slightly larger.


All in all, this is pretty solid!

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Alright. I can see it. I have saved it on to my computer.

Its a very nice first draft. The lines could be more straight, the colouring could be made a bit more elaborate, and the lines could be thicker. The design, however, is very solid. Keep up the good work!

I dabble in drawing myself, and after I practice a bit more, I might post some drawings of my own.

[Gligarman2]

Alright. I can see it. I have saved it on to my computer.

Its a very nice first draft. The lines could be more straight, the colouring could be made a bit more elaborate, and the lines could be thicker. The design, however, is very solid. Keep up the good work!

I dabble in drawing myself, and after I practice a bit more, I might post some drawings of my own.

Should I elaborate, or continue onto that Nephilim Wizard?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Should I elaborate, or continue onto that Nephilim Wizard?

I would appreciate a second draft.

[Gligarman2]

Is it okay if I just clean it up a bit and add highlights and change around some color? I can't make it much more straight due to the shape of my tablet, and I can't make the lines thicker due to the quirks in photoshop. Is this alright? Any more changes? Thanks for the gainful employment!

[Surrealistik]

Something I really feel should be advanced in Magic Sword is the elimination of damage dice for monsters.

Instead, monsters should just deal averaged damage like minions, and double damage on a critical hit.

This would speed up play significantly, while making it easier and faster to put monsters together (you don't have to do the averaging math for each set of damage dice used).

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Is it okay if I just clean it up a bit and add highlights and change around some color? I can't make it much more straight due to the shape of my tablet, and I can't make the lines thicker due to the quirks in photoshop. Is this alright? Any more changes? Thanks for the gainful employment!

Changing around the colours and cleaning it up would be a start, and I obviously can't make you do anything, but it really would be nice if the picture was re-constructed. I understand that you are having technical difficulties, so I don't expect you to make the changes soon, but I would rather have quality than quantity.

[Gligarman2]

Changing around the colours and cleaning it up would be a start, and I obviously can't make you do anything, but it really would be nice if the picture was re-constructed. I understand that you are having technical difficulties, so I don't expect you to make the changes soon, but I would rather have quality than quantity.

Sir, you are my boss. I respect you in your endeavors. I will continue my work once you specify what "re-construct" means. It is quite the ambiguous term. What you need, I'll do. This is OUR project. Elf's, mine, yours.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I have finished the first draft of the Human (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f8ir_SndMEARGfT4cl-SkaR5BH8JMpnQgRBoh4cMPFg/edit#), complete with powers, feats, and fluff.

Please skim it and tell me what you think.



Sir, you are my boss. I respect you in your endeavors. I will continue my work once you specify what "re-construct" means. It is quite the ambiguous term. What you need, I'll do. This is OUR project. Elf's, mine, yours.

The lines need to be more strait, thick and dark. The hammer seems a bit small, the legs could use forshortning, the nose could be made more square, the armour and skin could be darkened, and the entire body needs to be given depth.

[Gligarman2]

Thanks. I will rectify that soon. Once I do so, will it be acceptable?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Thanks. I will rectify that soon. Once I do so, will it be acceptable?

Yes. It certainly will be.

[Gligarman2]

Hi, I really appreciate your feedback. This time I based the hammer off a swiss hammer from the 15th century. Is this revised version alright?

At this link:http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d56zyg1

Please save this to your disk drive and inform me. That way I can delete it from DeviantART and get cracking on the wizard. What do you think?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Hi, I really appreciate your feedback. This time I based the hammer off a swiss hammer from the 15th century. Is this revised version alright?

At this link:http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d56zyg1

Please save this to your disk drive and inform me. That way I can delete it from DeviantART and get cracking on the wizard. What do you think?

Could you please remove the symbols and aura from the shield?

[Gligarman2]

Wait, aura. That was just light bouncing off. Not to oppose your descision, but why the symbols.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Wait, aura. That was just light bouncing off. Not to oppose your descision, but why the symbols.

Ah. Okay. Keep the aura.

I want you to remove the symbols because I think they distract from the dwarf herself.

[Gligarman2]

Is this better? Please save, as usual.

http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d570eiu

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Is this better? Please save, as usual.

http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d570eiu

Its good. A job well done.

[Gligarman2]

Should I continue to the wizard?

[Gligarman2]

Just so you know, I won't be able to draw today, if that is what you wanted. I have never felt more miserable and sick in all my life. Sorry.:smallfrown:

[Dark Elf Bard]

Get well soon!

[Gligarman2]

DEB, thanks!

Also, ChainsawHobbit, should I start on the wizard?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

DEB, thanks!

Also, ChainsawHobbit, should I start on the wizard?

It would be great if you were to start on the wizard as soon as possible.

I hope you feel better. Drink tea. Tea helps. Also take baths and read books.

[vasharanpaladin]

It would be great if you were to start on the wizard as soon as possible.

I hope you feel better. Drink tea. Tea helps. Also take baths and read books.

Nah, books don't really matter to the recovery process. Tea, which contains caffeine, isn't helpful, either. I suggest fruit juice, chicken soup and DayQuil.

...I'd offer my own 2cp on the system, but I think I lost track of what's going on. Gimme a bit for that... :smallfrown:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Nah, books don't really matter to the recovery process. Tea, which contains caffeine, isn't helpful, either. I suggest fruit juice, chicken soup and DayQuil.

Tea not only contains calcium, protein, and healthy fat if you include milk; it is good for the soul. It soothes the senses, strengthens the body, stabilizes the mind, and warms the spirit. Tea, sir, is what you need.

Books help with relaxation and improve your mood.

[Gligarman2]

I got better a few days ago, and I will start on the wizard as soon as possible. Should he be more "Cultist-cthulu" feel, or more "Vaarsuvius-generic magic/bookish" feel? I await your response. Also, could you inform me if you have saved the revised dwarf?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I got better a few days ago, and I will start on the wizard as soon as possible. Should he be more "Cultist-cthulu" feel, or more "Vaarsuvius-generic magic/bookish" feel? I await your response. Also, could you inform me if you have saved the revised dwarf?

I have indeed saved the revised dwarf. For the wizard, I was thinking more of a meddler in things man was not meant to know look.

[Gligarman2]

Hi. I just finished the Wizard. Please save it or tell me what to revise. If you have saved it, please inform me. http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d57uh8g

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Hi. I just finished the Wizard. Please save it or tell me what to revise. If you have saved it, please inform me. http://gligarman2.deviantart.com/#/d57uh8g

He needs shoulder-length hair and a thin beard. Also, the book and hands don't look very natural. They would use a re-do.

[Gligarman2]

Thanks. However, the Book you refer to is meant to be a cigar. Does your advice on this matter still stand?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Thanks. However, the Book you refer to is meant to be a cigar. Does your advice on this matter still stand?

I don't think a cigar really fits the character.

[Gligarman2]

I have continued working. May I ask why a cigar does not fit the character?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I have continued working. May I ask why a cigar does not fit the character?

If he's addicted to anything, it will be a stimulant that allows him to stay up later studying. He's kind of a puritan who believes in the scholarship above all else.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Hi guys! I've finished the warlord and am working on the cultist and dwarf.

Chainsaw, should the female dwarf have hair, or be bald, like Gligarman's?


Either way, I'm basing mine of of his. :wink:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Hi guys! I've finished the warlord and am working on the cultist and dwarf.

Chainsaw, should the female dwarf have hair, or be bald, like Gligarman's?


Either way, I'm basing mine of of his. :wink:

I would prefer it if the dwarf was bald.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

So, there is this roleplaying game system called Savage Worlds. It makes use of many mechanics and concepts that bring Fourth Edition to mind, even tough it pre-dates it. I think we should kill it and take its stuff, or even use it as a spring-board to the same level we will use the D20 srd.

[Yakk]

I'm not seeing anything about power budget from various sources anywhere in this thread or the documentation.

Is there a location where meta-design docs are? Or is your plan to just throw things against the wall and see what sticks?

(Ie, writing a system from the perspective of "here is what characters do", instead of "here is what we want characters to do", seems ridiculously hard.)

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

We have this guy (http://chronoplasm.deviantart.com/gallery/) working on art. Yeah!

[The Troubadour]

Are you still accepting help with writing and game mechanics? Because if so, I'd love to take on the Bard. :-)

[Dark Elf Bard]

Holy crap!

Holy crap!

That guy is awesome! :eek::sigh:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Are you still accepting help with writing and game mechanics? Because if so, I'd love to take on the Bard. :-)

I am still accepting and encouraging help. You can have the bard.

[Gligarman2]

Thanks, Dark.

Aww. Cronoplasm! How can I compete with That? It is pure digital gold!

[Dark Elf Bard]

Well, you're welcome. I like your style a lot.

But yeah. May as well drop out now! :wink:

Just kidding.

[Gligarman2]

So yeah, same deal. I put it on photobucket this time. Any other Revisions

Postscript,

Dark Elf Bard, your ponytar really is pretty cool. How do I change my avatar again?(online brohoof)

[Dark Elf Bard]

Well, do you have a 120x120 pony image?

Also *online brohoof back* :smallbiggrin:

Also, PM the answer. to meYou know, keeping the thread on track.:smallwink:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Who wants to have a 4e Skype game with many Magic Sword concepts worked in? It wouldn't be so much a playtest of Magic Sword as a playtest of some Magic Sword mechanics in a 4e context.

Also, you would get a taste of my now-improved DMing.

[Gligarman2]

Firstly, I could make such an image. Secondly, has the drawing been saved?
Thirdly, yes, with the proper information of time, accounts, and etc. I could roll up a character. I will curb my munchkinism.

[Gligarman2]

Here's the image: http://s1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii594/gligarman2/?action=view&current=NephilimWizardoftheFeydrank.jpg

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Here's the image: http://s1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii594/gligarman2/?action=view&current=NephilimWizardoftheFeydrank.jpg

Image saved.

[Gligarman2]

Are you satisfied?

[Dark Elf Bard]

Oooh, I really like the pose. It's really natural.

[Gligarman2]

Thanks! Are you going to play in the concept playtest Elf?

[Dark Elf Bard]

*shrug* Maybe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of material for more than one player.

Also, I'll have to write out my character by hand. No builder. *grumblegrumble* :smalltongue:

[Gligarman2]

Well, were mostly playing 4e with some Magic Sword elements, not straight up Magic Sword.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Oooooohhh, excellent! I made a goblin druid I'm dying to try. What level?:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Gligarman2]

No idea. That's why I asked the boss what level, what time, and what days.

[Gligarman2]

Hey, um. Mr. Hobbit, I hate to ask, but what is a ravenfolk. I really need more detail. Right now, I am totally confused.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Are you satisfied?

Pretty much.


Hey, um. Mr. Hobbit, I hate to ask, but what is a ravenfolk. I really need more detail. Right now, I am totally confused.

Don't hate to ask. Its a valid question. Ravenfolk are basically MM2 kenku. Feathered people with bird heads and no wings.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Kenku...:smallsmile:

edit: argh ye ninja!

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

The playtest would feature Level 1 characters, and would happen just over a week from now. The reason we have to wait is because I'm going to be very busy for the next week, and because I need to complete the six core races.

The game would be 4e, but with MS races, the MS combat advantage mechanic, all-new MS monsters, MS surprise round rules, and everyone having 2 fewer healing surges (now once again renamed life points).

Also, it would hopefully take place on a Sunday or Monday, when I have some more free time. Just a simple dungeon crawl written be me.

[Gligarman2]

What day and what time? Also, thanks for the clarification.

Could everyone list their skype names? Mine is Gligarman22.

Darn. Ninja'd. Sorry.

[Dark Elf Bard]

How about classes?