[PF] Halfling Monk OF DOOM! [PF]

[grarrrg]

Now most of you are thinking "Halfling + Monk = FAIL!"
Well, you're right.
But I'm being silly (what? grarrrg? silly? never!)
So today I present the (work-in-progress)
HALFLING OF DOOM!

*Warning, the following "build" dips like the dickens, but actually winds up following its 'theme' fairly well. It is not recommended for low-level play. It's probably not recommended for ANY play for that matter...*

The following build has a major focus on Tripping, and a lesser focus on Intimidation.
Stat hierarchy is as follows: DEX > WIS > CON > STR > CHA (note: even though STR has greater priority than CHA, the CHA will probably still wind up higher due to Halfling racials)
INT must be at least 13

Feat breakdown:
*Combat Reflexes
*Weapon Finesse
We are going to (have to) run on Dexterity, and we need the ability to make a lot of AoO's.

*Combat Expertise
*Improved Trip
*Greater Trip
*Tandem Trip (yes it's a teamwork feat, but no one else needs to take it)
Trip focused build

*Fury's Fall (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/fury-s-fall-combat)
Trip AND Dex focused build

*Vicious Stomp
Between Greater Trip and this, we get to make TWO AoO's for every successful Trip.

*Enforcer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/enforcer-combat)
I don't know how I missed this before...every time you deal Nonlethal Melee damage you get a FREE Intimidate check! If successful, the target is Shaken for Rounds=Damage! Add 1 round of Frightened if it was a Critical!

*Defensive Combat Training
Necessary for our PrC

We have 10 feats minimum for our build, so we are DEFINITELY grabbing some as Bonus feats from classes.

Optional Feats (have pre-req feats that don't help much)
Shatter Defenses (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat---final), requires Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display, but is a probably a more reliable Flat-Foot enabler than Flowing Monk.
Boar Ferocity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/boar-ferocity-combat), 2nd Boar Style feat, +2 to Intimidate, free Intimidate when you 'tear flesh' with Boar Style (only 1/round)
Janni Tempest (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/janni-tempest-combat), 2nd Janni Style feat, +4 to Trip attempts immediately after a successful Unarmed strike
Monastic Legacy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/monastic-legacy-combat), non-monk levels count towards Unarmed damage progression. Not really necessary, we get better damage from Sneak Attack, but worth a thought.

First class:
Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk)
Minimum Investment: 2 levels
Gains: 1 Bonus feat, 'Redirection' lets us make one 'Defensive' Trip per turn (Immediate Action), and Unbalancing Counter can make the target Flatfooted with an AoO, and (failed) Ref save.

Lore Warden Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/lore-warden)
Minimum Investment: 3 levels
Gains: Combat Expertise, 2 Bonus Feats, +2 bonus on all CMB/CMD

Thug Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/thug)
Minimum Investment: 4 levels
Gains: +2d6 Sneak Attack, 2 Rogue Talents (probably used to get another Feat or two). Improved/Increased Intimidate, can Sicken target by sacrificing Sneak Attack damage.
Alternate option:
Rake Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/rake) can sacrifice Sneak dice to get (multiple) +5 bonuses to Intimidate checks. (cannot take both Rake and Thug sadly...)

Halfling Opportunist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/halfling-opportunist)
Minimum Investment: all 5 levels
Gains: +2d6 Sneak Attack, +2 All Saves, deal Sneak Attack damage when making AoO's (and how many AoO's do we get when Tripping?)

Inquisitor
Minimum Levels: 3
Gains: Conversion Inquisition (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition) let's us use WIS instead of CHA for Intimidate checks, and a +1 bonus to Intimidate on the side. Also, +WIS to initiative, and Solo Tactics lets us use Tandem Trip without needing anyone else to take it.


Final build is 17 levels
Add more levels of any of the above to complete the build (recommend more Rogue for the Sneak damage)

Ideally, we initiate a Flurry attack, with our first attack we attempt to Trip (rolling twice!), if unsuccessful, we make our 2nd attack a Trip (and so on...), if successful we can make 2 AoO's, each successful AoO deals Sneak damage and forces the victim to make a Reflex save or be considered Flat-Footed until end of our NEXT turn. Victim will be Prone (-4 AC), and we finish our Flurry by just hitting him (with the likely added bonus of Sneak Attack damage).
Oh, and ALL of our strikes have been Nonlethal giving us MULTIPLE FREE Intimidate Checks (Enforcer + whichever Rogue archetype).
So after a "good" round, our victim will have takes LOTS of Sneak Attack fueled Nonlethal damage, be Prone, be considered Flat-Footed, be Sickened (Thug Rogue), Frightened for 1 round (Thug and or Enforcer), and Shaken for a LOT of rounds (additional 'Shakens' ADD rounds, not reset).
On our Victim's turn, they can either A: Stand up, eating another AoO, B: Attempt to Crawl away, eating another AoO, or C: in the unlikely event they are NOT Frightened, they can just stay Prone with -4 AC/-4 To-hit.

FEAR THE HALFLING!

[doko239]

Two things to contribute:

1. Fit Shatter Defenses in there somewhere. If your target is "impaired", they're flat-footed against your attacks. Shaken counts as impaired. With Enforcer, if you hit them once, they're flat-footed for the rest of the fight! :smallbiggrin: this is the cornerstone of my Batman build.

2. You must name him Hung Lo. That is all.

[NeoSeraphi]

Suggestion: Find a way to get the Agile Maneuvers feat in there as well. It lets you substitute your Dex for your Str when calculating your CMB. Note that Fury's Fall says it adds your Dex to your CMB when you trip, so essentially you get BAB+Size+Dex+Dex when you use them both, instead of BAB+Size+Str+Dex.

[grarrrg]

1. Fit Shatter Defenses in there somewhere. If your target is "impaired", they're flat-footed against your attacks. Shaken counts as impaired. With Enforcer, if you hit them once, they're flat-footed for the rest of the fight! :smallbiggrin: this is the cornerstone of my Batman build.

Hmmm... as-is Shatter Defenses requires 2 more feats, 1 of which sort-of helps the build, the other will be ignored completely.
It is a little redundant on this build, BUT it is an interesting alternative to Flowing Monk Flat-Footing...
I wonder which build would be overall better, Flowing Monk, or Shatter Defenses?
Going Shatter Defenses would open up different Monk archetypes, or NO Monk at all for that matter...but the build is still fairly dependent on Unarmed damage, so maybe Monk is non-negotiable...


Suggestion: Find a way to get the Agile Maneuvers feat in there as well. It lets you substitute your Dex for your Str when calculating your CMB. Note that Fury's Fall says it adds your Dex to your CMB when you trip, so essentially you get BAB+Size+Dex+Dex when you use them both, instead of BAB+Size+Str+Dex.

AH! Knew I was missing something important.
Thank you, in it goes.

[doko239]

Shatter Defenses with Enforcer is strictly better, since it's a single check vs a fairly low DC (10 + HD + Wis) instead of a reflex save, and it's a continuous effect rather than a per-round effect.

Instead of Flowing Monk, you could grab Sensei and get Wis to hit.

[grarrrg]

Shatter Defenses with Enforcer is strictly better, since it's a single check vs a fairly low DC (10 + HD + Wis) instead of a reflex save, and it's a continuous effect rather than a per-round effect.

Instead of Flowing Monk, you could grab Sensei and get Wis to hit.

WIS to hit wouldn't be a huge gain, as we still need a high DEX for all the AoO's we'd be making.

I'll have to explore "Plan B" more later tonight, unless someone else beats me to it that is.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Don't waste a feat on Agile Maneuvers.

Tripping can be done with a weapon, which means weapon finesse applies to it. See the FAQ on Weapon Finesse for more info.

Agile Maneuvers is a stupid feat tax that shouldn't exist. One feat to hit w/ dex is enough, and AM only covers a few maneuvers that WF doesn't.

Trying to trip with a halfling seems pretty pointless, though. You'll only be able to trip medium or smaller creatures.
If you are making a tripper and ARE dipping Inquisitor, though, you should go to Inquisitor 3 for Solo Tactics and a free teamwork feat, to spend on Tandem Trip. Now whenever any other ally threatens the foe, your trip attempts use 2d20, pick the higher.

[doko239]

Don't waste a feat on Agile Maneuvers.

Tripping can be done with a weapon, which means weapon finesse applies to it. See the FAQ on Weapon Finesse for more info.

Agile Maneuvers is a stupid feat tax that shouldn't exist. One feat to hit w/ dex is enough, and AM only covers a few maneuvers that WF doesn't.

Trying to trip with a halfling seems pretty pointless, though. You'll only be able to trip medium or smaller creatures.
If you are making a tripper and ARE dipping Inquisitor, though, you should go to Inquisitor 3 for Solo Tactics and a free teamwork feat, to spend on Tandem Trip. Now whenever any other ally threatens the foe, your trip attempts use 2d20, pick the higher.

If you're gonna do that, might as well go for 3 levels of Holy Tactician instead; same deal, but you actually share the feat with all allies within 30'. Unlimited duration, unlimited uses/day. Also nets you Divine Grace and a pseudo-Smite Evil to boot.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Interesting. Shame you lose aura of courage and your "smite" is heavily gimped (though it won't matter much w/ only a 3 level dip). The wording is also unclear. You...grant a teamwork feat as a standard, and can change it as a swift, but...it lasts until you change it? Why even have the activation be a standard, then? It's just going to be on all day long and switched if needed... Is it really supposed to be 24/7? Seems cool, though.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/holy-tactician

But the OP already wanted Inquisitor for other reasons, so Inquisitor 3 is probably better.

[Rift_Wolf]

Interesting. Shame you lose aura of courage and your "smite" is heavily gimped (though it won't matter much w/ only a 3 level dip). The wording is also unclear. You...grant a teamwork feat as a standard, and can change it as a swift, but...it lasts until you change it? Why even have the activation be a standard, then? It's just going to be on all day long and switched if needed... Is it really supposed to be 24/7? Seems cool, though.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/holy-tactician

But the OP already wanted Inquisitor for other reasons, so Inquisitor 3 is probably better.

It's a bit of rule-lawyering, but you don't get the teamwork feat all the time. The ability doesn't function if the paladin is flat-footed, invisible or silenced (You have to see and hear him), and you must be within 30ft of him. If you move out of this area, you lose the feat, and he has to spend a standard action to redirect you. If the paladin is unaware of an attack (Likely, given Perception isn't a class skill and PF paladins are usually built with the same mental stats as Katy Perry), everyone loses the teamwork feat. Even if it's the Lookout feat which is meant to lower the chances of being surprised.
However, if you were to juggle a few classes to get uncanny dodge, you could get past 3 of those 4 obstacles easily enough. It's just if someone charges ahead, moves to flank a dragon, or fall back, they lose the teamwork feat. I wouldn't put money on it as a serviceable build, though.

[doko239]

Battlefield Presence (Su): At 3rd level, a tactician can direct her allies in battle, granting each ally within 30 feet one teamwork feat she possesses as a bonus feat as a standard action. All allies must receive the same feat, but do not need to meet the prerequisites of this bonus feat. This ability does not function if the paladin is flat-footed or unconscious. Allies must be able to see and hear the holy tactician in order to gain this benefit. Changing the bonus feat granted is a swift action. This ability replaces aura of courage.

Bolding is mine. Looks like the activation time is to allow for nighttime ambushes etc, as well as to make taking out the walking buff machine that much more desirable, since he'll have to waste a standard action to re-establish the aura if he's woken up.

[grarrrg]

*people typing stuff*

Agile Maneuvers is out, Shatter Defenses is "pending" as we're already fairly stretched on feats, and Inquisitor is the better option for Tandem Tripping for a few reasons.
Side note: Tandem Trip provides an effective bonus of +3.325 (avg. d20 > 10.5, avg. 2d20-take-best > 13.825)


With regards to Shatter Defenses.
It negates the need for Flowing Monk, but Monk is still handy for the build as it gets us Improved Unarmed Strike and other Bonus Feats.
After some poking around, the "ideal" Shatter-Monk looks to be 6 levels of Maneuver Master + Weapon Adept
Maneuver Master can take Improved Trip as our 1st or 2nd bonus feat, and Greater Trip as our 6th level bonus feat. This removes the need for INT 13 and Combat Expertise (We don't "need" to take Lore Warden Fighter for 3 levels anymore, BUT Fighter Feats are needed, and the +2 CMB bonus is handy...thoughts??)
Also, Flurry of Blows is replaced with Flurry of Maneuvers, which for our purposes winds up doing pretty much the same thing (can make an extra Maneuver as part of a full attack instead of just an extra attack).
At 5th we can use our Swift action to add WIS to our next Maneuver check! DEX+DEX+WIS!!

Weapon Adept is much more simple.
We trade Evasion and gain Weapon Focus at 2nd (pre-req of Shatter)

Tentative Shatter Monk Build:
Maneuver Master + Weapon Adept Monk 6
Rogue 4
Inquisitor 3
Halfling Opportunist 5
Fighter (archetype?) 2

Hmm.... that's 20 levels already...
If we keep Lore Warden Fighter, we can drop Monk down to only 2 levels (bye-bye WIS-to-Trip), but then we need 13 INT again..., but we gain 3 levels to work with...

[Zubrowka74]

Weng Weng (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weng_Weng), is that you ?

[grarrrg]

I took a step back and reconsidered the build as a whole (it was getting...cluttered...) and with Shatter Defenses, we don't need to focus on Tripping anymore.

Tripping was needed to be able to regularly trigger AoO's to make use of Flowing Monk's Flat-footing. Trips were one of the few ways that WE could control who we made AoO's against.
Since Shatter Defenses just needs the victim "shaken", and Enforcer grants free Intimidate checks with EVERY Nonlethal strike, we don't need to Trip anymore.

This opens up a LOT of the build.

We don't need to be Halfling anymore, we only needed Halfling to take Halfling Opportunist to get more mileage out of our AoO's. We 'can' still go Halfling if wanted/needed, but it is no longer necessary.
The DEX-focus came about due to necessity (Halfling Stats, Fury's Fall, etc...), so we don't "NEED" DEX near as much.

Heck, we probably don't even need Monk anymore, Enforcer works with ANY Nonlethal melee weapon. Still nice for the bonus Feats though.
If Monk is dropped we can go CHA focused if wanted.

And our MASSIVE feat list drops considerably.
*Enforcer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/enforcer-combat)
Lynch-pin of the build, EVERY nonlethal hit grants a free Intimidate check.

*Weapon Focus > *Dazzling Display > *Shatter Defenses (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat---final)
Our Intimidated Opponents easily become Flat-Footed to our attacks

*Boar Style > *Boar Ferocity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/boar-ferocity-combat)
If going Unarmed/Monk, if not can be skipped. Extra Damage on Unarmed Strikes, +2 on Intimidate Checks

Levels:
Monk?? Weapon Adept should be considered if Monk is taken. We get Free Weapon Focus, and lose Evasion, which we gain from Rogue 2 anyway.
Rogue, Thug or Rake.
Fighter?? Feats are always nice, but not quite as needed as before.
Inquisitor?? If we go the WIS-based route it is necessary, if we go CHA-based, it can still be handy, but much less important (Still has Stern Gaze for +1/2 Intimidate/level, and Half-Orc can effectively double this)

Other classes?

[doko239]

With Shatter Defenses, you'll probably want as much sneak attack progression as you can get. Since you're focusing on nonlethal, Sap Adept, Sap Master and Knockout Artist will really boost your damage output.

If you're not going Monk, then Ninja is a good substitute; sneak attack, extra attacks for ki points, and lots of stealthy options. Unarmed Fighter is another possibility; free Imp Unarmed Strike and one style feat at 1st level.

Still needs to be called Hung Lo, though :smallbiggrin:

[grarrrg]

If you're not going Monk, then Ninja is a good substitute; sneak attack, extra attacks for ki points, and lots of stealthy options. Unarmed Fighter is another possibility; free Imp Unarmed Strike and one style feat at 1st level.

Ninja is a nice thought, but no good.
Even if your DM lets you take Rogue archetypes with Ninja, both Thug and Rake trade away Trapfinding which Ninja doesn't have anyway. And this build would REALLY like to have Thug (possible Sickened) or Rake (trade Sneak Damage for +Intimidate).


Still needs to be called Hung Lo, though :smallbiggrin:

If there we wind up with Monk+Small Race then yes. If not, a different name will be needed.