regarding DC save numbers

[leegi0n]

How do you calculate what the DC is to meet/beat for a caster?

Obviously, it is going to be harder to make a save vs. a 20th level caster, as opposed to a 10th level. I've forgotten what you add together to make that number.

[Urpriest]

10+Spell Level+Relevant Ability Score Modifier. Also, this sort of question is what the Simple Questions thread is for.

[Flickerdart]

Your caster level, amusingly enough, doesn't figure into the DC calculations. CL only matters when you need to penetrate spell resistance.

[leegi0n]

10+Spell Level+Relevant Ability Score Modifier. Also, this sort of question is what the Simple Questions thread is for.

duly noted. I actually, didn't even realize a "simple questions" thread existed. Plus, it seems like a rather complicated question considering I can't figure out how a spell's challenge rating increases once you pass the 20th level threshold. I mean, characters who are above 20th level are "epic" and supposed to be amazing and awe-inspiring, but if you have level 15 characters saving vs. the spells of a 20th level caster....blaming it on crappy dice rolls gets old after a while.

I understand now that I have been calculating them correctly (10+spell lvl.+ability mod.).

thank you for your help.

[Flickerdart]

An average level 20 caster's spell DC will be 30 (10 + 9 for spell level + 11 for ability score). Against a poor saving throw (+6 base, +5 resistance bonus, +0 ability score), even against an even-level character, you will almost always succeed. A 15th level character, even using a good save, is likely to only have +13-15 on his save, meaning that you hit him 75% of the time.

Optimization will run both of these numbers up, of course, but a sufficiently high level wizard can just resort to no-save spells instead, if he feels like it.

[leegi0n]

...and then there's the no save spells. right-o!

[Exirtadorri]

Also note that after 20th level you can create epic level spells. A 10th level spell is a 8th level spell with no save or SR. You can always use feats like spell focus and greater spell focus with heighten spell to make it crazy. :)

[Flickerdart]

Also note that after 20th level you can create epic level spells. A 10th level spell is a 8th level spell with no save or SR. You can always use feats like spell focus and greater spell focus with heighten spell to make it crazy. :)
A 10th level spell is a 10th level spell. Epic spells don't have levels, except for very specific purposes - and are usually so obscenely overpriced that it's not worth mucking about unless you can mitigate like a champ.

[leegi0n]

An average level 20 caster's spell DC will be 30 (10 + 9 for spell level + 11 for ability score). Against a poor saving throw (+6 base, +5 resistance bonus, +0 ability score), even against an even-level character, you will almost always succeed. A 15th level character, even using a good save, is likely to only have +13-15 on his save, meaning that you hit him 75% of the time.

Optimization will run both of these numbers up, of course, but a sufficiently high level wizard can just resort to no-save spells instead, if he feels like it.



ok, so - (10+spell level (9)+ ability score)

Ability score as in, wisdom or int., right? You use the modifier, not the base score, correct? How you could get a +11 for ability score at level 20? Even with 18 as a base roll at level one, and you put a point into it every four levels, that would still only put you at +9 at level 20. Where did the +11 come from?

[Flickerdart]

A Headband of Intellect (Cloak of Charisma, Periapt of Wisdom) +6 is trivial to afford by that level. A Tome or stack of Wishes will give you a further +5 bonus, but this is more expensive. If you're still finding yourself lacking the mental scores you want, age a couple of decades - an Old character adds +2 to their Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma.

It's pretty usual to see 36 (18 base +2 racial +5 levels +5 tome +6 item) in the casting stat of choice by level 20, though obviously with templates and aging this can go considerably higher.

[leegi0n]

good point. I didn't take gear into consideration. duh!