[3.P]Favored Enemy: Underrated?

[Rhaegar14]

Just a thought I had the other day. Favored Enemy is Ranger's second most iconic class feature, and most people tend to think it's pretty meh because it's not always applicable, but I'm starting to think that might not always be the case. In certain thematic campaigns, it can be very useful: for instance, I ran a campaign where 90% of the monsters my players fought were Humanoids (Dragonblood), Dragons, Undead, or Outsiders (Evil), in order of frequency.

I'm not saying that being useful in context makes it great, but is it underrated within that context? Is there something I'm missing that makes it still not that great even when it applies?

[Toliudar]

I'd suggest that the whole reason that the Favoured Enemy ability is considered so-so at best IS that it's situational. So, if you're in that situation (say, if you're building a character for Ravenloft, or the DM has said "Let's set a campaign in Hell!") it does obviously become better. Just as beguilers are situationally better in humanoid-heavy campaigns, warlocks in campaigns where you're fighting ten times a day, etc. With most games, though, there isn't necessarily that kind of certainty.

[hoverfrog]

I have a couple of rangers in my current campaign and at first level the players have gone for basic enemies that they guess they'll meet along the way: Humanoid (human) and undead. The campaign proper should be in place by the time they reach 5th and choose a second favoured enemy so they'll know the kind of monster that they're meeting regularly. Their main enemies will be aberrations and evil outsiders and they'll have met a few before 5th to hint at what is best to choose. It doesn't really matter what they pick though because they'll meet all sorts of beasties at some point.

I don't have a problem with players changing a favoured enemy once either as long as it isn't mid session. i.e. Ranger Ron chooses undead as a favoured enemy at first but doesn't meet any undead as he's spending all his time orc bashing. So by 3rd level he opts to change his favoured enemy to humanoid (orc). No big deal but he can't change it back.

[Ashtagon]

Favoured enemy can be powerful, but that's not the whole story.

The big problem with it is that there is no player agency in it. Once the player has made his choice, the only question is whether or not the GM provides favoured enemies for him to fight. It's a purely static bonus. There's no tactical question of use it or not. There's no limited use or risk of tactical disadvantage in its use. The benefit isn't variable. And you can't change your choice under RAW.

Here's a very basic way it could be made more interesting...

Favoured enemy acts as a paladin-style smite, usable the same number of times per day as a paladin's smite evil ability, except it only targets favoured enemies. The skill bonuses remain static.

[ahenobarbi]

Favoured enemy acts as a paladin-style smite, usable the same number of times per day as a paladin's smite evil ability, except it only targets favoured enemies. The skill bonuses remain static.

You suggest making it weaker?

[Toliudar]

You suggest making it weaker?

I think the implication was that the bonuses would be larger, offsetting the fact that it's only usable a few times per day/encounter/whatever mechanic you'd like to apply.

[SSGoW]

The best favored Enemy change I've see is...

Each morning a ranger may spend X minutes studying from his Enemy Manual. He may choose a number of Favored Enemies equal to his wis mod + 1/2 Ranger level. Against these creature he gains his current Favored Enemy Bonus. As the Ranger goes up in level he gains a higher bonus on any enemy he chooses.

At 10th level a Ranger needs only a full round action to study 1 enemy in his Enemy Manual, if he goes past his maximum Favored Enemy total then he must replace one with a new one.

This makes the favored enemy a lot more versatile but really doesn't break anything.

[Ashtagon]

You suggest making it weaker?

Oh yah, forgot to mention I assumed the PF fix, where it lasts for the encounter. Since the thread title indicated Pathfinder, I assumed that was assumed by everyone else in the thread too.

[Rhaegar14]

I only tagged Pathfinder because the mechanic is (I believe) exactly the same in Pathfinder.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I only tagged Pathfinder because the mechanic is (I believe) exactly the same in Pathfinder.

Nope. It's better in Pathfinder, though still only good in certain types of games ("wightocalypse" "the evil necromancers won" "devil invasion"). And even then, for the last two, smarter necros and devils would think of getting some living goblins and ogres to aid them, because things that specifically target outsiders/undead won't work.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There are some ways to make it matter a lot more, taking the ACF from complete mage to be able to apply your FE bonuses to any creature with arcane casting abilities (be it racial or through class levels) is a big thing as if there is an enemy you will fight at some point in a campaign is a spellcaster.

The other is to get favoured enemy: evil which IIRC applies to everything that has evil alignment so in most campaigns almost every enemy (with some exceptions such as animals) though I only know of two ways to get it, Stalker of Karash which sadly is an exalted prestige class and one Harper class (Scout IIRC)

[Corlindale]

Favored enemy is much better in Pathfinder, for one simple reason: Instant Enemy is a third level ranger spell - swift action casting time, no save and no SR. It makes any target count as the type of your choice for the purposes of favored enemy. Any ranger at level 10+ should be using this at EVERY opportunity. Buy a sack of 3rd level pearls of power if necessary - it's THAT good. So for any PF ranger at level 10 or above Favored Enemy is no longer a situational ability, but a boss-killer power similar to Smite Evil in use.

Also, the Guide archetype for the ranger switches the classic favored enemy power for an ability that works more like Smite Evil, but is limited in uses per day.

[Jack Zander]

Oh man, when I read the title I was totally expecting the OP to be suggesting of adding a Favored Enemy (Underrated) list for rangers which would basically group uncommon enemies together such as oozes, plants, and some of the subtypes of humanoids and outsiders.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Consider the power jump in most campaigns if everything about favored enemies (the 3.5 version) were entirely the same, including the number of favored enemies you can have (1 at 1st, 2 at 5th, etc), except you chose at the beginning of every day as opposed to fixed for your career.

[Answerer]

Even when Favored Enemy does apply, the bonus is tiny.

[Flickerdart]

It's not just meh because it's useless against most creatures you're likely to face in a normal campaign. It's meh because, well, it's meh. A handful of extra damage and bonuses on several skills? Yawn.

[Eldan]

Yeah, that's my problem with it, really. While flavourful, it is actually pretty boring mechanically. It does not do much. That's the kind of thing you add on as flavour on top of the actual class features, not half the chassis.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm actually inclined to agree with the three between my two posts as well. At most you're getting a +10 against a single enemy type by level 20, which is much better if you can change that enemy type 1/day, but still not tremendously good.

[Dsurion]

My favorite way to "fix" this was in Person_Man's Ranger-Scout (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58263), in that more similar enemies were grouped together (plants/fey/animals/vermin or elementals/outsiders or all non-monstrous humanoids, etc.), and you could choose Favored Enemies more often by way of it being a "Ranger Talent", which you could choose every other level, if you really wanted to.