View Full Version : World of Tanks II: Fighting, Bragging, Raging Edition - All aboard the Lemming Train!
psilontech
2012-05-30, 05:39 PM
http://sheet10.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/wot-logo.jpg
WORLD OF TANKS
Thread II: The Threadening
World of Tanks (http://www.worldoftanks.com/) is a multiplayer online game developed by Wargaming.net featuring mid-20th century era fighting vehicles. It is built upon a freemium business model where participants only have to pay for optional features. The focus is on player vs. player gameplay with each player controlling a tank or armored vehicle.
Old Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188111&page=50)
With the original WoT thread nearing maximum capacity, the time has come to make a new one. Just for giggles, the thread title is still up for debate!:smallbiggrin:
Eldariel
2012-05-30, 05:52 PM
Nonono. This won't do at all. Let's do a proper opening post since this thread seems to have enough traffic to warrant it. Something with a big capitals "World of Tanks", maybe a quick description and download link, mayhap a player list and maybe something fun :smalltongue: If you want, I could draft it up for you.
psilontech
2012-05-30, 07:05 PM
That any better?
I assume the picture loads for everyone else, as well.
Yep, it loads well for me.
In celebration of the new thread, have a screenshot:
http://www.dumpyourphoto.com/files4/115109/cXAEr9q.jpg
Eldariel
2012-05-30, 08:02 PM
Works fine. Excellent. Unrelated, I just found out that T-34/85 vs. Type 59 ends up in T-34/85 victory. Somehow. Engine fire and turret bounces had something to do with it but it was still probably the best tank vs. tank fight I've ever fought.
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2012-05-30, 08:04 PM
I introduced a friend to it, and he was like "OH MY GOD THIS IS THE BEST GAME I'VE EVER SEEN"
And I don't even have any big tanks to show off either.
My record is 4 kills in a single match. I think I'm average at the game now? At least I don't suck!
Jimorian
2012-05-30, 08:04 PM
That illustrates the "Lemmings" part of the thread title PERFECTLY. :smalltongue:
For the "bragging" bit, I had an 8-kill game in my T49 TD last night. Ensk in a Tier-5 max battle where I ran down the open field, got a T82 and D2 there, then got behind their lines and just smashed things. One of those games where you feel invincible! Another Ace badge in my stable. :smallcool:
iyaerP
2012-05-30, 08:23 PM
I finally managed to kill an IS 8 in my M103.
Laugh not, those things have been the bane of my existance since the patch with absurdities like bouncing off their side hulls while they penetrate my frontal armour, having consistantly 0 damage shots even when I penetrate, and similar world of tanks nonsense.
That same battle, I proceeded to get 5 total kills (An AMX120, a KV1, an AMX 12 90, and an M12 arty piece as well as significantly damaging the other enemy IS 8.)
One of my best battles in a long while.
otakuryoga
2012-05-30, 08:23 PM
couple hours ago saw a commercial on the military channel for world of tanks
at least they are advertising where it will do the most good
I finally managed to kill an IS 8 in my M103.
Laugh not, those things have been the bane of my existance since the patch with absurdities like bouncing off their side hulls while they penetrate my frontal armour, having consistantly 0 damage shots even when I penetrate, and similar world of tanks nonsense.
That same battle, I proceeded to get 5 total kills (An AMX120, a KV1, an AMX 12 90, and an M12 arty piece as well as significantly damaging the other enemy IS 8.)
One of my best battles in a long while.
Did I mention my battle with the SU-26 where I killed a Tiger and a Stug III with direct fire? :smalltongue: Granted, it was a desperate move, seeing that I was the only one left, but I can only imagine the face the Tiger player had when I blew his tank up.
couple hours ago saw a commercial on the military channel for world of tanks
at least they are advertising where it will do the most good
They're advertising pretty heavily in the SEA region, and are having almost weekly events.
psilontech
2012-05-30, 10:53 PM
Working my way up the French light line. For the most part, it has been an unpleasant experience.
The Tier-2 I can forgive. It may be slow, but it's armored like the micro-maus.
Tier-3 as just painful, I used up the last of my free experience to skip past it after five or so matches.
AMX-40... I don't even know where to begin. It seems to max out at 14 km/h on a level, paved surface when it's stats say it should be able to get up to 50. That only happens if you have a nice, long and steep hill to go down. The armor isn't terrible but wating for the below-tier but best in the tank cannon is really painful.
Only thing keeping me going is the promise of an auto-loader cannon next tier.
Working my way up the French light line. For the most part, it has been an unpleasant experience.
The Tier-2 I can forgive. It may be slow, but it's armored like the micro-maus.
Tier-3 as just painful, I used up the last of my free experience to skip past it after five or so matches.
AMX-40... I don't even know where to begin. It seems to max out at 14 km/h on a level, paved surface when it's stats say it should be able to get up to 50. That only happens if you have a nice, long and steep hill to go down. The armor isn't terrible but wating for the below-tier but best in the tank cannon is really painful.
Only thing keeping me going is the promise of an auto-loader cannon next tier.
The stats which is listed there is only the theoretical maximum speed of the vehicle. The actual speed of the tank varies with engine power and driver skill.
Erloas
2012-05-30, 11:45 PM
I'm not sure which was worse, the AMX 38 or 40. They were both fairly painful. But both did have really good armor for their tier and both with and against them they bounce a lot of shots. I think I got a Steel Wall with both of them in fact. The worse part was that they were always too slow to be where they needed to be at any given time. Which made it hard to get kills and get exp, not that the gun was too weak, but simply that everyone else got all the kills while you were getting there.
Elm11
2012-05-31, 08:31 AM
I want to play tanks more.
I want to play World of Warcraft more.
I need to work more.
I ought to sleep more.
I can choose two.
:smallannoyed:
Eldariel
2012-05-31, 09:08 AM
By the way, what are some good mods people can recommend? Simple ones that just improve the GUI or make the game look/sound better or some such?
The only mod I keep hearing being tossed around are the hitbox mods. (Ones where they saw each tank's weakspots.)
I want to play tanks more.
I want to play World of Warcraft more.
I need to work more.
I ought to sleep more.
I can choose two.
:smallannoyed:
Tanks and Sleep
Samuel Sturm
2012-05-31, 10:57 AM
By the way, what are some good mods people can recommend? Simple ones that just improve the GUI or make the game look/sound better or some such?
Personally, I prefer this one. (http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/120259-rkmod-jimbo-ch-accurate-damage-ind-garage-zoom-icons-xvm-lite-version-without-in-game-players-ratio/) Updates a lot of stuff, gives you a handy hit counter for how many times you've been hit, shell travel time for arty, and a lot of other cool stuff. Be sure to do the perma serverside crosshairs, too. They bumped my hit percentage up by about 5% alone.
otakuryoga
2012-05-31, 01:28 PM
wow..pure rng hate for me
just played a game in my m40/43..1850 damage gun..
direct hit to side of a stationary t-50-2..he lives at 40%
direct hit to enemy m40/43..he lives at 30%
???!!??!???!!?!!
my MINIMUM damage is more than their HP
wow..pure rng hate for me
just played a game in my m40/43..1850 damage gun..
direct hit to side of a stationary t-50-2..he lives at 40%
direct hit to enemy m40/43..he lives at 30%
???!!??!???!!?!!
my MINIMUM damage is more than their HP
HE rounds? If it does not penetrate their armour (always a possibility with all the wonky shenanigans WoT does), it only deals half damage. That damage is then further reduced by an unknown coefficient based on the thickness of armour. The same reason why my SU-26 can't dent a stupid KV unless I hit them from the top.
otakuryoga
2012-05-31, 03:26 PM
HE rounds? If it does not penetrate their armour (always a possibility with all the wonky shenanigans WoT does), it only deals half damage. That damage is then further reduced by an unknown coefficient based on the thickness of armour. The same reason why my SU-26 can't dent a stupid KV unless I hit them from the top.
look at the targets i mentioned again
penetration was not a problem
with a direct hit the he "sphere" is more than sufficiently big to get through the side of t-50-2 and the top of arty even w/o straight up shot penetration
(which i had on both)
i guess it was a scenario of "the shot went through the armor and exploded inside the cabin..thus "containing" the blast and doing less damage"...........
or some BS like that
Jimorian
2012-05-31, 05:23 PM
Regarding the AMX 40. One game, we needed to send somebody back to defend base, and the 2 closest at about the same distance were me in my AMX 40, and a KV (pre patch). Our team unanimously agreed that the fastest choice here was the KV.
Even though overall I did OK with it (not too far below .500 match record, with really below par kill numbers), I'd have to rank the AMX 40 well below the M3 Lee as the worst tank. The other disadvantage of playing it is that it in no way prepares you for how to drive the AMX 12t that comes after, you have to learn everything about it from scratch.
The best role I found for it was as a plug in a hole somewhere. Get behind the corner of a building and play peek-a-boo with the enemy, not really even worrying about getting off shots because you're unlikely to hurt them. Just poke out, let your armor take a shot or try to get them to miss, then repeat. If you get lucky, they'll waste a lot of time delaying their advance instead of realizing they can just bum rush you any time they want. :smallamused: Not a glamorous role, but one that sometimes really helps your side get a positional advantage.
Misery Esquire
2012-05-31, 09:47 PM
wow..pure rng hate for me
just played a game in my m40/43..1850 damage gun..
direct hit to side of a stationary t-50-2..he lives at 40%
direct hit to enemy m40/43..he lives at 30%
???!!??!???!!?!!
my MINIMUM damage is more than their HP
Don't get me started on Panzer IVs failing to pierce M7 Priest's 12mm armour. Plink plink plink. My piercing is TEN TIMES your armour rating. Flat side tanks best design. :smallannoyed:
psilontech
2012-05-31, 10:08 PM
Bwahahahahahaha. One of my best games ever Tonight!
12. Freaking. Kills. My entire team sans a T-14 runs off to their deaths in the South leaving me in a bush guarding the North-West route to our base with the T-14 hiding behind a building somewhere near me. There after about the sixth or seventh kill my heart rate really started to go up and it got to be a really close one when they figured they could come see me more than one at a time. The T14 served as a great distraction until he got himself killed by leaving the comfort of cover with five or six enemy tanks still alive.
I cackled furiously as the last remaining tank, an M2 Medium hid behind a rock after I killed the KV that he had come up the little slope with before finishing him off.
God, what a rush.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/psilontech/shot_003.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/psilontech/shot_004.jpg
Don't get me started on Panzer IVs failing to pierce M7 Priest's 12mm armour. Plink plink plink. My piercing is TEN TIMES your armour rating. Flat side tanks best design. :smallannoyed:
My KV's (pre-patch) 107mm gun bounced off a M7 priest frontal armour. Three times.
As I might have bemoaned several times in the past thread, the Priest has an unholy tendency to bounce frontal shots from stuff that should slaughter it easily. Hell, I've had an 88/71 bounce it before, and it has 203mm of penetration.
Bwahahahahahaha. One of my best games ever Tonight!
12. Freaking. Kills. My entire team sans a T-14 runs off to their deaths in the South leaving me in a bush guarding the North-West route to our base with the T-14 hiding behind a building somewhere near me. There after about the sixth or seventh kill my heart rate really started to go up and it got to be a really close one when they figured they could come see me more than one at a time. The T14 served as a great distraction until he got himself killed by leaving the comfort of cover with five or six enemy tanks still alive.
I cackled furiously as the last remaining tank, an M2 Medium hid behind a rock after I killed the KV that he had come up the little slope with before finishing him off.
God, what a rush.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/psilontech/shot_003.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/psilontech/shot_004.jpg
Congrats that is awesome
Shiny Ace Tanker for my T-50 and T49 today. :smallbiggrin: Good games to be had.
Gotta admit, the T-50 is a whole new level of fun, dancing around tanks and shooting off tracks and engines.
SanguisAevum
2012-06-01, 04:31 AM
Gratz on the 12 kill game, beats my record of 10 kills in my T50.
In Other news, i finally made a descision, and sold the IS4. The IS7 is just simply a better T10 tank all round. (IMO)
Better gun (in practice, if not in theory), More versatile, Front armour that actually stops shots, better mobility.
And, looks a lot better too.
It was a sad day indeed, and whilst i agree the IS4 was a STRONG tank at Tier 9... the adjustments made when it uped a tier just dont work for it's intended role. The IS7 is STILL a better brawler than the IS4, with the added bonus of all its other uses as well.
Reaver225
2012-06-01, 05:26 AM
Did I mention my battle with the SU-26 where I killed a Tiger and a Stug III with direct fire? :smalltongue: Granted, it was a desperate move, seeing that I was the only one left, but I can only imagine the face the Tiger player had when I blew his tank up.
SU-26 is a tiny spiteful machinegun artillery of death to lights and mediums and surprising feats if you backstab with it (which is very possible seeing it's tiny profile and TURRET WOOHOO). I keep a single gold shell in it for just those occasions - my only fadin's medal (kill the last enemy with the last shell in your tank) was with my SU-26 against an IS who trundled right past me only for me to lob my final cursed shot into his engine, burning him to death.
As for lower-ranked matches...
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_038.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_039.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_010.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_011-1.jpg
I got the former set just now, and the previous some time back. Fun stuff!
12. Freaking. Kills.
Ah, my thunder! It's been stole'd!
otakuryoga
2012-06-01, 07:12 AM
Bwahahahahahaha. One of my best games ever Tonight!
12. Freaking. Kills. My entire team sans a T-14 runs off to their deaths in the South leaving me in a bush guarding the North-West route to our base with the T-14 hiding behind a building somewhere near me. There after about the sixth or seventh kill my heart rate really started to go up and it got to be a really close one when they figured they could come see me more than one at a time. The T14 served as a great distraction until he got himself killed by leaving the comfort of cover with five or six enemy tanks still alive.
I cackled furiously as the last remaining tank, an M2 Medium hid behind a rock after I killed the KV that he had come up the little slope with before finishing him off.
God, what a rush.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/psilontech/shot_003.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/psilontech/shot_004.jpg
yeah i have had a 12 kill game and a 13 kill game(both in my mini-maus)
they are adding a new medal next patch for killing the entire enemy team.. 14 minimum 8(
Misery Esquire
2012-06-01, 07:22 AM
My KV's (pre-patch) 107mm gun bounced off a M7 priest frontal armour. Three times.
Through a series of games I've tested the M7's armour. It remains the only SPG I'm nervous about when going hunting in my M3 Stuart, has now bounced a series of shells from the Pnzr III/IV off it's flat sided hull (Not just frontally, on those sides that appear to be the best target ever), and casually ignored the VK's 168mm piercing gun (That admittedly does heck all for damage). The hell is up with this little box.
Actually, speaking of M3s, I think I'm going to write a quick guide later, as somehow I've ended up Ace Tanker ranked in it. :smallconfused:
7.4 Test One (http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/128212-74-tank-changes-pictorial/)
Of Note there is the stats for the French TDs and Arty.
The arty seems to be lower damage across the board compared to other countries but faster firing rate.
psilontech
2012-06-01, 12:56 PM
SU-26 is a tiny spiteful machinegun artillery of death to lights and mediums and surprising feats if you backstab with it (which is very possible seeing it's tiny profile and TURRET WOOHOO). I keep a single gold shell in it for just those occasions - my only fadin's medal (kill the last enemy with the last shell in your tank) was with my SU-26 against an IS who trundled right past me only for me to lob my final cursed shot into his engine, burning him to death.
As for lower-ranked matches...
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_038.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_039.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_010.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_011-1.jpg
I got the former set just now, and the previous some time back. Fun stuff!
Ah, my thunder! It's been stole'd!
Haha, very nice. Which cannon are you using, the higher damage one or the faster RoF one? I might have to re-purchase the SU-26 just for giggles.
The SU-26 is defined by the 122mm (2nd HE) - anything else and you wasting a slot on the team, the 76mm has RoF and that's all.
The 6 rpm that the 122mm has is more than enough to deliver the pain.
Reaver225
2012-06-01, 02:59 PM
Haha, very nice. Which cannon are you using, the higher damage one or the faster RoF one? I might have to re-purchase the SU-26 just for giggles.
The SU-26 is defined by the 122mm (2nd HE) - anything else and you wasting a slot on the team, the 76mm has RoF and that's all.Pretty much this. The 122 packs the punch you need to kill lighter tanks in one hit without too much overkill and at least ding heavies through their armour. Using the 2nd HE shell only costs quite a bit but if you hit you'll pretty much always make back more than you spend.
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-01, 03:00 PM
Why are most BatChat drivers so bad? The tank puts out a lot of damage and it's fast, but it's also squishy. It should not jet out first, run away from the rest of the team, and engage all of the enemies simultaneously. It's in enough danger doing what it should be doing and staying behind the other mediums; everyone knows its dangerous and will try to kill it first either way. :smallsigh:
Eldariel
2012-06-01, 03:07 PM
Pretty much this. The 122 packs the punch you need to kill lighter tanks in one hit without too much overkill and at least ding heavies through their armour. Using the 2nd HE shell only costs quite a bit but if you hit you'll pretty much always make back more than you spend.
You kinda have to use it unless you want to never do anything. "It costs more" has never been a reason to use worse weapons except for maybe the old KV-3 and even there it was only a question of the guns being mostly equal.
You kinda have to use it unless you want to never do anything. "It costs more" has never been a reason to use worse weapons except for maybe the old KV-3 and even there it was only a question of the guns being mostly equal.
Making an easy 10k each game with a good run. SU-26 has to be one of the more profitable Tier IIIs yet.
Of course, it can't outbeat KV-1s or T-34s (or any premium tanks) for sheer profitability, but yeah.
Misery Esquire
2012-06-01, 05:08 PM
Actually, speaking of M3s, I think I'm going to write a quick guide later, as somehow I've ended up Ace Tanker ranked in it. :smallconfused:
How I Learned To Stop Worrying, And Hate The SPG
Or, a Guide to driving the M3 Stuart
The Tank ; It's the M3 Stuart.
The Upgrades ; You want the basic autocannon you start with, and everything else fully upgraded. More on gun choice later.
The Mission ; To kill, every SPG you meet
The Feel ; Alright. The load screen's up. You look at the tank listings. Three SPGs. No M7s. Wicked. The clock ticks down. Your driver has the nerves. The gunner is smoking. You're on the radio. Zero hour. Go time. Your tank clanks into gear, the engine roaring as the heavy growl of the tanks around you try to match your pace. They can't. You're gone, 40... 50... 60 km/h. Zipping along at a breakneck rate that weightier tanks can't match, and knowing something that those other quick runners don't. You're going to die. Skidding along the main road temporarily, you see nothing, the enemy is still rolling out of thier start. You jet onto a side path, kicking up a cloud of dust, feeling the deadly pull of the slope. There's a Panzer waiting for you. And Russians, and Brits.
You don't even hesitate. Straight down the middle, thier turrets struggling to keep up. Shells blazing past in your wake. There's a Tank Destroyer ahead, you jink, he waits, you zag, he fires. It impacts your armour, blowing off a huge portion of the chassis. Your engine is fine. One track is nicked. You're still doing 60. Then you're gone, like a bat of out hell. A plucky medium tries to turn 'round and chase you, but by the time he catches up it'll be too late. You zip into thier base, high on terror as you find the last stragglers, Heavies that weren't keeping up. They don't have a chance to adjust.
You fly into the bushes, hunting the artillery pieces that are already threatening the allied battle lines. There! A SU-26! Much more of a threat to your team than you are to thier's. Your gunner opens up, the rattling cannon emptying it's clips at a prodigious rate. It's beaten up, smoking marks all over the hull. Not dead, though. You weave just in time as the ground beside you becomes a crater larger than your small armoured frame. Done reloading as you finish circling to it's back, you finish it with another full set of shots.
But, there's a Grille lining up with you, and the enemy tanks are closing in, those who gave up going to the main battle after you haring to land a shell. You don't give them the chance, moving quickly to the far side of the Grille, despite the fact that the Grille is only truly vunerable to your gun on it's back. You open up on it anyway. The light shots plink off it's armour. It doesn't matter, you're hurting it, and the enemy is getting ansty. They fire, near misses. You give up on the Grille, dropping the fight and flooring it down the other path. More tanks await, so looping around, you lose the last few plates keeping your tank from death. Crashing into the side of the Grille, inconviencing it, you burst into flame.
Why ; A Light tank is worth less than the SPGs you can take out. Unlike the story above, you can get two, or sometimes even three, SPG kills before going down.
How ; This is going to be a long bit. But we can TL;DR it for those who don't want to read down more ; DON'T STOP MOVING.
Okay, simple advice aside, let's get down to business. Starting with the gun. Yes, the 37mm lets you engage other Light Tanks, and maybe the back of some Mediums. But that's not what this guide is about. The autocannon opens up much more quickly on SPGs, lets you do a little hindering damage from range where a cannon might miss, and against targets that have 12 and less armour, you tear through them at point blank.
To Weave, you simply tilt the tank back and forth as much as possible without losing speed. Against Threats (See Below), you can give up a bit of speed for a extended juke. (Do not fall below 45 km/h if at all possible) For higher Weave skill, keep track of which type of tank is firing. Panzers, T1 Heavies, KV-1s, Churchhills and the like have a good 6ish seconds between shots. You can drive directly toward them in this time in order to juke thier friends' shots. Then tilt toward someone who just shot (and hopefully missed). Taking a hit isn't all bad. The M3 is capable of standing up to at least a single shot of most Tier V tanks, and as long as it only hits Armour you don't even care.
The M3 is one of the quickest tanks in the game at 60 km/h, but it lacks the push power to go uphill quickly and loses speed on anything but a gradual incline. It does have good turning on flat ground. Do not go uphill unless you are completely safe, as you need the speed.
Now, let's cover the four types of enemy you'll face.
Type 1 : Prey ; SPGs of all variety (Except the M7 Priest, because it's oddly immune to everything, has a turning rate, and a strangly wide tilt on it's gun, letting it act like a TD). You attack them by getting outside of thier arc, and firing wildly. Try to remember the weak armour spots for each. If you can get them between most of thier team and you, you can actually slow down, or stop and use them as a shield.
Type 2 Obstacle ; Heavies, Mediums, and TDs are in this category. They can kill you easily, but usually have to manage to engage and hit you at longer range, before you're too close for thier rotation to deal with. You should drive around clusters of these if at all possible, but going right down the middle is great if you manage to dodge thier shots. A volley of shells from these missing usually costs thier players more than it does to repair your M3. Laugh hysterically as needed when running past.
Type 3 Hounds ; Other Lights of Equal or Lower Tier, these guys you could fight, if you were dragging the 37mm around with you. But you're not, because fighting them during a match with Tier 5s around is a waste when you could be killing SPGs. These guys can actually chase you, but normally aren't a threat aside from dinging up your health bar over time.
Type 4 Threat ; Higher Tier Lights, Fast Mediums, Base Defender Heavies. These guys can catch you, either by waiting and having a quick turret rotation, or by having near-equal speed. Usually mounting a bigger gun than your potential 37mm, they can kill you in a gun fight, keep up well enough to shoot at you, and have better armour ratings than you. These guys will usually be what kills you, aside from the Obstacles actually landing a hit.
So, in the rare game where Matchmaking decides it loves you, and you're at the top of the Tier heap, you'll still have the autocannon. It can pierce weaker Light, and the US medium, armour, so you're not completely out of the game. You also have the Stuart, so you can treat all the enemies as unthreatening Obstacles. Drive around wildly, attract shots, and get pings of damage on everything. Your hull is actually pretty tough at this tier range, but do NOT engage anything without backup. Not to say you should join the trundling horde instead of leading it, but you really need the other tanks to shoot things to death for you. Lead charges, and love it.
Other ; You normally want to take a parrallel track to the main battle lines that everyone uses. Going too far out of the way leads you into running into the Threats and Hounds that wanted to flank the main fight, staying too close gets you targetting by the flank-defending Obstacles like the faster TDs. I was going to have a table of tanks and thier types, but eh.
So, that's the quick rundown of how I ended up Ace Tanker in the M3 Stuart. I also only survived 2% of my games in it. :smalltongue:
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-01, 06:15 PM
How I Learned To Stop Worrying, And Hate The SPG
Or, a Guide to driving the M3 Stuart
<snip>
Also known as "the completely wrong way to play every scout tank ever." :smalltongue:
My qualifications:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/RenegadePaladin/WoTScoutRecord.png
I of course have more tanks than that, but that range includes all the scout tanks I regularly play (in which number I include the M7, which is actually a cleverly disguised light tank rather than a medium).
First of all, and most egregiously, do not, under any circumstances, rush off into the mass of the enemy by yourself. They will shoot at you, and given enough of them (which you guarantee by going to their base before they've spread out to the lanes) they will hit and kill you no matter how dodgy you are. (My Chaffee is very, very dodgy, having 100% clutch braking. They still eventually hit, even though they generally expend more ammo than my tank is worth trying, and if I put fifteen guns on me all at once, they will hit enough to kill before I do significant damage.) Depending on the map, you want to wait two to three minutes for their front line to engage the rest of your team, so that they are distracted. You then move out at top speed, taking a path where you know they are not (because you see them where they're engaged with your team). Proceed to penetrate their base area and kill artillery at your leisure.
For gun selection, the autocannons are fine for the small tanks; that's what I use on the M2 light. For the true scouts, though, you want a big gun, big HE if you can get it. Why? Most artillery is open-topped, and a mortar round will ruin it. My M5 has Reaper 3 in testament to this fact. The M3 Stuart can't get a derp, and is low enough tier that it doesn't get the scout flag, so the autocannon is fine, but when you're thrown in with anything heavier than a Grille, it won't do.
Things to avoid: In addition to the list above, Churchills are your bane. Contrary to the post above, they do not fire a shot every six seconds; the six pounder has a 30 rounds per minute fire rate and when fired from a slow-moving platform (like the Churchill) is accurate enough to put you full of holes when in the hands of a competent (i.e. not auto-aiming at a fast moving lateral target) gunner. Fortunately they're slow, so if you pay attention they're easy to avoid. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you can just breeze by them without risk, though. The M7 uses the same gun, and is fast enough to catch you, so avoid them like the plague (barring the tier 5 lights, which can take one in a stand-up fight).
Get a spall liner. This makes you much deadlier in ramming, since you take less damage from it, in addition to staving off death from the inevitable close range HE panic shot the arty will take at you if you make it that far. My M5 also has Kamikaze from ramming a Hummel to death. Take from that what you will. :smalltongue:
But the main thing is that you do not rush in front of your team if you want to be effective a majority of the time. The rest is just more data, but that is the primary thing wrong with the guide.
Misery Esquire
2012-06-01, 07:10 PM
But the main thing is that you do not rush in front of your team if you want to be effective a majority of the time. The rest is just more data, but that is the primary thing wrong with the guide.
Sorry, but I disagree. By rushing faster than they spread out too much in the Tier 2-5 range, you get into thier base, to the SPGs that you want to kill because most of them will be clustering forward to the main areas that you're avoiding. By waiting, you let them cover all the approaches. If you have 15 (Or any number >4) guns pointed at you while running, you've done something wrong, or managed to get inside thier starting zone in beyond record time. The guide was also specifically about the M3, which will never see anything beyond Tier 5/6 against it. All of the SPGs that you'll see are vunerable to the autocannon. Killing SPGs is enough of a boost to get your team to win. Even distracting a large number of tanks for the >30 seconds it takes for them to get you gives your team an advantage worth more than your M3 hide.
Also, the Churchhill's gun does fire faster than I stated. I just picked a random set of tanks that I usually run through, not a precise list of tanks with that reload time. Nice semantics, hero. /slowclap
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-01, 07:43 PM
You can manage to run into the entire team depending on the map. Karelia in particular leaves you vulnerable to this, since the map is so small and the area around the base is sufficiently open that tanks going to the north and south passages can still see back until they're in the pass. Malinovka really does it, but if you're still rushing across that field at start by the time you've hit tier 3, you're beyond help.
The tactics I've outlined take advantage of the metagame. Very, very few players go mid if they aren't scouts doing what you said to do, for the reason that on most maps going mid right away is suicidal and few people in pubs have the patience to wait around. If you wait for them to get away from the base, you can usually go right in almost completely unopposed. In organized play, especially clan matches, the strategy has to change again, but for public random games it works fine and nets you a higher survival rate than 2%. :smalltongue: Your arty will also thank you, because very few things counter a scout better than another scout, so being on active defense for the first couple of minutes can prove invaluable. Speaking of your artillery, waiting gives them time to set up and take advantage of your spotting, which is less of a factor in lower tiers, but if you cultivate bad habits in low tiers you'll be off and dead before your arty is sited and loaded a tier later.
As for the Churchill (two H's, not three (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill)), accuracy is important. The Churchill is more dangerous to you, the low-tier scout than most other heavies, and a guide to playing a scout should mention that fact rather than blithely grouping it in with the slow-firers. It is not a matter of semantics, and it's a disservice to the people you purport to be trying to guide to brush it off as that.
Misery Esquire
2012-06-01, 09:11 PM
You can manage to run into the entire team depending on the map. Karelia in particular leaves you vulnerable to this, since the map is so small and the area around the base is sufficiently open that tanks going to the north and south passages can still see back until they're in the pass. Malinovka really does it, but if you're still rushing across that field at start by the time you've hit tier 3, you're beyond help.
Malinovka you run either the low flatland on the left (Right facing north) after everyone lines up, or heads to the far side, or you go to the far side with the flankers.
The tactics I've outlined take advantage of the metagame. Very, very few players go mid if they aren't scouts doing what you said to do, for the reason that on most maps going mid right away is suicidal and few people in pubs have the patience to wait around.
...What?
First ; I never suggested going down the middle.
Second ; Almost every single player I see loves to sit in thier pretty little gun lines and camp. They bring marshmellows and hot dogs to these games.
If you wait for them to get away from the base, you can usually go right in almost completely unopposed. In organized play, especially clan matches, the strategy has to change again, but for public random games it works fine and nets you a higher survival rate than 2%. :smalltongue:
If you wait for them to get away from the base, they'll be covering more of the space that you want to run through, unless your team is already winning in one area.
Your arty will also thank you, because very few things counter a scout better than another scout, so being on active defense for the first couple of minutes can prove invaluable. Speaking of your artillery, waiting gives them time to set up and take advantage of your spotting, which is less of a factor in lower tiers, but if you cultivate bad habits in low tiers you'll be off and dead before your arty is sited and loaded a tier later.
The arty have plenty of time to setup before you're spotting on any map that isn't Malinovka sized. I usually get an arty shot or two at things that get into my run.
As for the Churchill (two H's, not three (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill)), accuracy is important.
I hate you. If you were within arm's reach, I would strangle you. Right now.
The Churchill is more dangerous to you, the low-tier scout than most other heavies, and a guide to playing a scout should mention that fact rather than blithely grouping it in with the slow-firers. It is not a matter of semantics, and it's a disservice to the people you purport to be trying to guide to brush it off as that.
It is semantics, when I casually list a few tanks in a guide I wrote mostly for fun rather than to be an in-depth look at the exact workings of the game.
Eldariel
2012-06-01, 09:28 PM
Isn't the difference you two are having just the fact that Kinslayer is tailoring advice to Top Tier ~4-5 games where things like covering all entrances and protecting the artillery aren't Tactics Du Jour, while Renegade is giving advice for the bit higher tier games with people having slightly more robust mechanics?
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-01, 09:46 PM
Malinovka you run either the low flatland on the left (Right facing north) after everyone lines up, or heads to the far side, or you go to the far side with the flankers.
I know how to deal with it.
...What?
First ; I never suggested going down the middle.
Second ; Almost every single player I see loves to sit in thier pretty little gun lines and camp. They bring marshmellows and hot dogs to these games.
First, you should have; it's almost always the least-guarded route barring Malinovka and Komarin. Second, I don't know what server you're playing on, but most people I see, especially rookies, rush off at top speed as soon as the countdown hits zero. Besides, if everyone's camping anyway, then who's doing all this covering of routes you keep talking about if you wait? You're contradicting yourself.
If you wait for them to get away from the base, they'll be covering more of the space that you want to run through, unless your team is already winning in one area.
Fifteen tanks can't be everywhere, and if they do spread out in a thin ring to try and stop scouts, they'll get smashed by the concentrated force of the rest of your team. It's the old problem of whether you intend to stop smugglers or invading armies; every strategist from Sun Tzu to Napoleon has written about it.
The arty have plenty of time to setup before you're spotting on any map that isn't Malinovka sized. I usually get an arty shot or two at things that get into my run.
Small arty yes. Big arty no. You won't be playing tier 3 forever.
I hate you. If you were within arm's reach, I would strangle you. Right now.
I really, seriously doubt that.
It is semantics, when I casually list a few tanks in a guide I wrote mostly for fun rather than to be an in-depth look at the exact workings of the game.
If you don't intend to be accurate, then it isn't much of a guide. Accuracy is still important.
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3329/su26.jpg
My current Service Record for the SU-26
Size of shell damage shows: The Total damage done for the SU is just over double what my S-51 has at 196 battles
(also just noticed that i have 666 battles in my KV1)
The T57 is retired (HE nerf hit it very hard)
Deadmeat.GW
2012-06-02, 06:24 AM
''In order to reduce the amount of issues with "questionable" non-penetration/penetration hits, reworked the system of damaging with HE and armor-piercing shells. In some cases the chance of damage and critical hits from HE shells increases.''
GODDAMN!
And they kept saying it was our imagination, we must have been doing it wrong etc...
I damn well know that when I hit a medium 3 times with my Lowe and it shows battle damage but the damn thing is still at 100% health and never slows down, stops spitting shells at 2-ish second intervals, nor get tracked that something wasn't working correctly.
And shooting them in the upper hull sides should not result in no effect from a 10.5 cm gun when I hit a pnzr 3/4 in the side (hull or turret that is 30 mm armour and my absolute minimum penetration is 30mm, i.e. minus 25% from RNG to my long range penetration and +25% armour effect bonus from 'sloping' which would penetrate anytime I get no bounce result).
And given that I was shooting it when it was driving circles around me I severely doubt the Long Range bracket should come into play.
And at close range the armour penetration on the Lowe gun is SUBSTANTIALLY higher then 30 mm minimum.
M7 *cough* Priest.
Goddamn I hate their forcefield armour.
On a brighter note, I just unlocked my SU-14. Now debating whether to keep the SU-8 and its crew, or transfer the crew to the SU-14. I kinda like SU-8. Just the right amount of mobility and damage. (Setting an IS-3 on fire never fails to amuse.)
Deadmeat.GW
2012-06-02, 07:18 AM
Lets talk about insane premium tanks...
Heavy Tank: WZ-111
Characteristics for a vehicle with basic configuration and a crew with 100% qualification.
Main Characteristics
Tier
VIII
Hit Points
1 550 HP
Weight/Load Limit
48.97 / 53.95 t
Price
Gift Tank
Crew
1.Commander(Radio Operator)
2.Gunner
3.Driver
4.Loader
Mobility
Engine Power
650 h.p.
Speed Limit
50 km/h
Traverse Speed
28 deg/sec
Turret Traverse Speed
26 deg/sec
Armor
Hull Armor (mm)
front 130
sides 90
rear 60
Turret Armor (mm)
front 200
sides 140
rear 80
Armament
Gun
D25-TA
Ammunition
32 pcs.
Damage
293-488 HP
Armor Penetration
131-219 mm
Rate of Fire
4.8 rounds/min
View Range
320 m
Signal Range
525 m
And then people worry about a Lowe :)?
WG learned from the Type 59 and that's why the 62 & 111 are not available anywhere but the Chinese server.
Erloas
2012-06-02, 10:36 AM
-ing stupid people. So I purchased a T-28 and took it out for its first battle. Heading out a T2 MT shoots me, then shoots me 3-4 more times (a few of them bouncing). Gets me to like 15% health and then drives off, comes back 30 seconds later and shoots me a couple more times and kills me. The stupid game doesn't even turn him blue, my compensation for being hit by an ally is only 255 coins (for a 1400 repair bill), and he was the only one to shoot me, didn't even see any enemies to try and hit me. And then on top of that the team wins the battle so my 2x exp is practically nothing.
Misery Esquire
2012-06-02, 01:54 PM
I know how to deal with it.
If you don't want to be assumed an idiot, do not assume anyone else to be.
First, you should have; it's almost always the least-guarded route barring Malinovka and Komarin. Second, I don't know what server you're playing on, but most people I see, especially rookies, rush off at top speed as soon as the countdown hits zero. Besides, if everyone's camping anyway, then who's doing all this covering of routes you keep talking about if you wait? You're contradicting yourself.
Okay... Look. I'm going to make this very, very, very, very (so on), simple for you.
First ; So, when you're critizing me, down the middle is bad, but when you're the one supporting it, it's good. I'm just going to leave it at that.
Second ; What purpose is served in camping the base? They camp along the edges of the entry routes to the base. At first, everyone clusters around the "main" routes. If you wait, they get bored and roll off to cover the less-considered entrances, as both sides wait for the others to show themselves. This is not contradictory.
Fifteen tanks can't be everywhere, and if they do spread out in a thin ring to try and stop scouts, they'll get smashed by the concentrated force of the rest of your team. It's the old problem of whether you intend to stop smugglers or invading armies; every strategist from Sun Tzu to Napoleon has written about it.
No, they can't be everywhere at once, but they'll make main clusters of snipers, and then spread to the other paths. World of Tanks does not have infinite paths to the base.
Small arty yes. Big arty no. You won't be playing tier 3 forever.
Yes, I will be. Because it was written for fun about specifically the M3, which I enjoy more than my Tier 4 - 6 things. I don't own any Tier 7+ because I don't even want to see the state of things that high. My VK was my big excitement for a while as I was going to finally get out of the Panzer IV and the sniping wars... to learn that the tiers that the VK is at is full of the heavy guns, grinding approaches, and sniping, sniping, sniping.
If you don't intend to be accurate, then it isn't much of a guide. Accuracy is still important.
...
I know how to deal with it.
First of all, you should have; it's almost always the least guarded route, barring, Malinovka and Komarin. Secondly, I don't know what server you're playing on, but most of the people I see, especially rookies, rush off at top speed as soon as the countdown hits zero. Besides, if everyone's camping anyway, then who's doing all of this covering of routes you keep talking speaking about if you wait? You're contradicting yourself.
Fifteen tanks can't be everywhere, and if they do spread out into a thin ring to try and stop scouts, they'll get smashed by the concentrated force of the rest of your team. It's the old problem of whether you intend to stop smugglers or invading armies;, every strategist from Sun Tzu to Napoleon has written about it.
Small arty, artillery yes. Big Larger arty artillery, no. You won't be playing tier 3 forever.
I really, seriously, doubt that.
If you don't intend to be accurate, then it isn't much of a guide. Accuracy is still important.
You're right. Accuracy is important.
Lakeville: we have a T1 and a T14 aswell as a leFH105 left and there is a KV and a T14 inc to base. Our pair of heavies are half way down the valley and decided to push on after they start capping out base... the Arty goes down valiantly to try and stop the cap.
Just boggles the mind that people can think that they can race down the valley from half way and beat them at capping when they have a large head start and no-one to stop them (after arty was taken out)
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-02, 10:04 PM
If you don't want to be assumed an idiot, do not assume anyone else to be.
I didn't assume you were an idiot. Lots of people do exactly that, but that doesn't mean you're one of them. On the other hand, even more people go hill, to the point that near-entire teams will go and leave two or three tanks guarding the base, making a delayed rather than immediate rush very effective.
Okay... Look. I'm going to make this very, very, very, very (so on), simple for you.
First ; So, when you're critizing me, down the middle is bad, but when you're the one supporting it, it's good. I'm just going to leave it at that.
Second ; What purpose is served in camping the base? They camp along the edges of the entry routes to the base. At first, everyone clusters around the "main" routes. If you wait, they get bored and roll off to cover the less-considered entrances, as both sides wait for the others to show themselves. This is not contradictory.
First, down the middle right at start is bad. Down the middle a couple of minutes later when everyone goes down the side lanes is good. This is not a hard distinction to make, and one I made very clearly.
Second, that's exactly the point. They will get bored and move on if you wait. This is why I say to wait, and why not waiting is a bad idea.
No, they can't be everywhere at once, but they'll make main clusters of snipers, and then spread to the other paths. World of Tanks does not have infinite paths to the base.
You're right, it doesn't, but most maps have enough that there aren't significant numbers of tanks on every one. By the two minute mark, the teams are usually engaging, and the minimap will tell you where that's happening, so you can go around.
Yes, I will be. Because it was written for fun about specifically the M3, which I enjoy more than my Tier 4 - 6 things. I don't own any Tier 7+ because I don't even want to see the state of things that high. My VK was my big excitement for a while as I was going to finally get out of the Panzer IV and the sniping wars... to learn that the tiers that the VK is at is full of the heavy guns, grinding approaches, and sniping, sniping, sniping.
What you learned is that sloppy tactics stop working once you get into higher tiers. No, once you're in a tier 4 or 5 light with the scout flag you can't just bumrush anymore and expect to be effective. However, the tactics used at higher levels of play apply just as well to lower tiers - or better, since people who are just starting out or never advance beyond them don't see them often and don't counter them.
...
You're right. Accuracy is important.
Accuracy of information, not spelling. If I meant spelling was important, that's what I would have said; the Churchill thing was a parenthetical aside, which is why it was in parentheses to separate it from the rest of the statement, which you have mistakenly conflated it with. You gave incorrect information in what is supposed to be an informative guide to play. That was the problem. As a new player reading your guide, I'd get the distinct impression that little threat is posed by heavies in general (not particularly true) and Churchills in particular since they were named (absolutely incorrect).
At any rate, you're getting very angry for no particular reason. I offered a differing opinion to your guide; you'd think I kicked your dog or something from how you're acting about it. We're under no obligation to treat what you say on the matter as holy dogma not to be denied. :smallsigh:
Misery Esquire
2012-06-03, 12:31 PM
First, down the middle right at start is bad. Down the middle a couple of minutes later when everyone goes down the side lanes is good. This is not a hard distinction to make, and one I made very clearly.
No, it wasn't. You stated "Down the middle is bad." And then refrained with "Down the middle is good."
Second, that's exactly the point. They will get bored and move on if you wait. This is why I say to wait, and why not waiting is a bad idea.
But them moving on is the dangerous part. When they're all clustered in two or three locations, you can zip by. When they've spread out into engagements and looking toward the flanks, you have to get by a lot more fire.
You're right, it doesn't, but most maps have enough that there aren't significant numbers of tanks on every one. By the two minute mark, the teams are usually engaging, and the minimap will tell you where that's happening, so you can go around.
The teams normally engage in the same sections over and over, instead of waiting to see that and then letting them move out toward the edges.
What you learned is that sloppy tactics stop working once you get into higher tiers. No, once you're in a tier 4 or 5 light with the scout flag you can't just bumrush anymore and expect to be effective. However, the tactics used at higher levels of play apply just as well to lower tiers - or better, since people who are just starting out or never advance beyond them don't see them often and don't counter them.
And this is why I don't believe your below (and above) statements. You condensend heavily on everything I say, and then expect me to smile and agree with you.
It's not that I "learn sloppy tactics stop working", it's that I didn't enjoy the change in gameplay. I never moved up in Light Tanks because the T5 Lights cost 50,000 EXP and I could better spend that time getting new Mediums. Except it turns out that I don't enjoy the majority of Mediums in the German tree that I decided to focus on.
Accuracy of information, not spelling. If I meant spelling was important, that's what I would have said; the Churchill thing was a parenthetical aside, which is why it was in parentheses to separate it from the rest of the statement, which you have mistakenly conflated it with. You gave incorrect information in what is supposed to be an informative guide to play. That was the problem. As a new player reading your guide, I'd get the distinct impression that little threat is posed by heavies in general (not particularly true) and Churchills in particular since they were named (absolutely incorrect).
Little threat is posed by Heavies, aside from the times they land a shell on you, and you burst into flames instantly. But there's really nothing to be done about getting hit aside from Not Being There or Dodging.
At any rate, you're getting very angry for no particular reason. I offered a differing opinion to your guide; you'd think I kicked your dog or something from how you're acting about it. We're under no obligation to treat what you say on the matter as holy dogma not to be denied. :smallsigh:
I'm angry because of the above condensation in every one of your posts, like spelling out exactly why the Churchill shouldn't have been in that list rather than just going "Yo, that tank doesn't actually do that." I would've been fine with that, and probably just editted the Churchie out. Instead when I explain that I wasn't paying much attention because I was just having fun, you mock the fact that I left an extra H in.
You're under no obligation to agree, and niether am I. (See above for Condensation, and how you do it so very often.)
Guys, I think the atmosphere is getting a little hostile. Could you please take it to PMs?
On a happier note, I finally grinded my way to a SU-14. Oh boy, this tank moves like, I quote: "a beached pregnant whale" and I find this description to be apt. It's also unable to defend itself from the slowest scout tank unlike the SU-8. The 203mm gun better be worth it.
Well, fortunately, not many on the SEA server knows how to counter-battery yet and I hope they don't learn for some time yet.
Its the same gun as the S-51 has and it is very much worth it.
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-03, 08:30 PM
No, it wasn't. You stated "Down the middle is bad." And then refrained with "Down the middle is good."
My opening statement was that rushing in right away is a bad idea, which I articulated more than once. If you didn't keep that in mind when reading the rest of what I had to say, it is not my fault.
But them moving on is the dangerous part. When they're all clustered in two or three locations, you can zip by. When they've spread out into engagements and looking toward the flanks, you have to get by a lot more fire.
My considerable experience in scouts from the closed beta on tells me the opposite. People tend to look at the immediate threats to them, which you don't qualify as if there are tanks with big guns in front of them. If they're engaging your heavies, they're generally not going to all turn to shoot at you when you go down another lane. (But if they do you still win, since they'll be looking the wrong way when large-caliber shells come crashing through their side turret armor.) If, on the other hand, you rush in front and you're the only target they see, they will shoot at you because you're the only target they see.
The teams normally engage in the same sections over and over, instead of waiting to see that and then letting them move out toward the edges.
Normally yes, but until they're actually doing so you don't know where they are. Running headlong into a medium wolfpack that's decided to do something unorthodox will end your scouting career in a big hurry.
And this is why I don't believe your below (and above) statements. You condensend heavily on everything I say, and then expect me to smile and agree with you.
It's not that I "learn sloppy tactics stop working", it's that I didn't enjoy the change in gameplay. I never moved up in Light Tanks because the T5 Lights cost 50,000 EXP and I could better spend that time getting new Mediums. Except it turns out that I don't enjoy the majority of Mediums in the German tree that I decided to focus on.
And that's fine, but play guides aren't about the person writing them; they're about the people reading them. As an aside, I don't find high level gameplay to be an endless snipe-fest in the least; I play American heavies (which are much more mobile than Germans) and high tier mediums all the way up to the Patton and successfully use a very mobile outflanking style of play, not what you describe at all.
And no, I don't expect you to smile and agree with me. I also didn't expect immediate, unrelenting hostility, but one can't predict everything.
Little threat is posed by Heavies, aside from the times they land a shell on you, and you burst into flames instantly. But there's really nothing to be done about getting hit aside from Not Being There or Dodging.
Personally, I'd classify that as rather threatening.
I'm angry because of the above condensation in every one of your posts, like spelling out exactly why the Churchill shouldn't have been in that list rather than just going "Yo, that tank doesn't actually do that." I would've been fine with that, and probably just editted the Churchie out. Instead when I explain that I wasn't paying much attention because I was just having fun, you mock the fact that I left an extra H in.
You're under no obligation to agree, and niether am I. (See above for Condensation, and how you do it so very often.)
I spelled out why the Churchill shouldn't have been in the list because just saying "Hey it doesn't work like that" doesn't explain how it does work. Again, this isn't about you; it's about the people reading the guide. You're taking it personally when you really, really shouldn't be.
Priest33
2012-06-03, 10:23 PM
Came here to talk about tanks, all I find is a page of rage between two members. :smallconfused::smallfrown:
Never the less just got this game lastnight, my friend has advised to start with the russian tree as it is the "easiest" to learn, then branch into other trees. Is this solid advice?
Deadmeat.GW
2012-06-03, 11:45 PM
Yes, it is solid advice.
In general Russian tanks are more forgiving if you are not sure what to do.
But...at low levels this can sometimes be a struggle as they play quite fast and fragile with decent guns at that point.
The Germans tend to be slowish, pretty good armour (less releveant at higher levels) and ok damage dealing capability.
French...at low levels they are a nightmare for the beginner.
Sloooooow, a lot of armour and a gun that is so laughable you can spend 4 matches without doing any damage to people (happened to me and I was aiming for known weak spots...)
Americans, not too sure, at low levels they seem to be middle of the road.
Yes, it is solid advice.
In general Russian tanks are more forgiving if you are not sure what to do.
But...at low levels this can sometimes be a struggle as they play quite fast and fragile with decent guns at that point.
The Germans tend to be slowish, pretty good armour (less releveant at higher levels) and ok damage dealing capability.
French...at low levels they are a nightmare for the beginner.
Sloooooow, a lot of armour and a gun that is so laughable you can spend 4 matches without doing any damage to people (happened to me and I was aiming for known weak spots...)
Americans, not too sure, at low levels they seem to be middle of the road.
At low levels... yeah, they're pretty middle of the road. M3 Lee is rather harsh on the beginner though.
Priest33
2012-06-03, 11:58 PM
cool, thanks for the info :smallsmile:
Just wanted to make sure before my first engagement that I had an "easier" tank to begin with before really getting into the game.
Another thing, after you are destroyed (which will happen a lot I understand) you can just quit the match and join another? I see people talking about repair fees are these steep? Is there a "nub island" like other f2p online games for the first few lvls?
Erloas
2012-06-04, 12:19 AM
There is a limited number of maps for tier 1 tanks. And as a tier 1 tank you'll only be facing tier 1 and tier 2 tanks, and no artillery.
The AMX (French) lines are a pain because they are painfully slow. But all the rest of the countries are pretty good. I would probably head towards a heavy tank quickly. The lights seem good at first because speed seems good but they aren't all that great after a bit. I really like arties but they are a unique play style.
And since you have multiple garage slots its not a problem to run several different countries or try different lines at the same time.
As for repair costs... I very rarely loose money on any match. At tier 5/6 it gets a bit easier to loose money, but still doesn't happen that often.
cool, thanks for the info :smallsmile:
Just wanted to make sure before my first engagement that I had an "easier" tank to begin with before really getting into the game.
Another thing, after you are destroyed (which will happen a lot I understand) you can just quit the match and join another? I see people talking about repair fees are these steep? Is there a "nub island" like other f2p online games for the first few lvls?
Tier I and Tier II tanks are grouped together for their own battles. Once you hit Tier III and above, then you start seeing the big boys.
Priest33
2012-06-04, 12:44 AM
alright.. sounds good.. now to muddle my way through it.
psilontech
2012-06-04, 01:02 AM
Low-tier vehicles to aim for, as they're loads of fun:
USA:
Tier 2: Eeeh, nothing I really like here.
Tier 3:
>T-82, Tank Destroyer. Has two great weapons to unlock. First is a slow-firing 'one shot one kill on non-tier-fives' weapon. The projectile is quite slow so firing at moving targets is hard to do, but when you do... boom. It has the same HE damage as the tier-9 American Heavy cannon. The second is a fast-firing weapon with decent penetration and damage.
>M2 Medium. I had loads of fun in this thing. It's decently fast and maneuverable and the 'best' gun to unlock on it is a howitzer that decimates unwary opponents.
Germany:
Tier 2:
>Sturmpanzer I Bison, Artillery. Generally considered the best tier 2 SPG and with good reason. It DOES get thrown into a lot of higher-tiered fights than its American and Soviet counterparts, but it can generally still dish out the damage.
Tier 3:
>Marder II, Tank Destroyer. Love, love, love this thing. Great at hiding with a reasonable firing arc and an amazing gun. Stay hidden and you can take out tier five heavies all day long, firing fast and bouncing very few shots, killing a KV-1 in five or six shots.
>Wespe, Artillery. Coming from the PZII line, it offers some of the best range and damage for its tier, bar none.
France:
Tier 2:
Hotchkiss H35. Amazing armor for its tier, you'll have shots bouncing off you all day if you face the correct direction. Nice weapon for tier-2 as well. The main problem is the speed and mass of the tank. You WILL be the slowest thing on the map bar a newly purchased, unupgraded lultraktor going up a steep hill. See that street sign ahead of you that you think you'll be able to knock down? Nope, stops you dead. Horrible engine and speed but is pretty much a micro-maus.
Tier 3: Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Yeah, no.
USSR:
Tier 2:
BT-2. Fast fast fast, especially for a tier-2 tank. Want something to get up the hill in Himmelsdorf before the match is over? This is your tank. Comes packing a decent gun.
Tier 3:
BT-7. An upgrade to the BT-2. Faster still and before the scout patch that added new scout tanks, was one of the faster tanks in the game. Gets a better gun, too. A force to be reckoned with, especially when hills and speed are involved.
SU-76, Tank Destroyer. Comes packing a Tier-6 weapon after some upgrading, this guy is a sniper to the core. Accurate with okay damage and great penetration, but with next to no hitpoints or armor and an open top.
SU-26, Artillery. An SPG with a turret. Fast aiming and eventually, decent damage. Lacking in range, but then again most arty at this tier is, barring the Wespe. Tons of fun with a high reload rate and without the frustration of accidentally moving your chassis and causing your aim to cover a square block.
>Marder II, Great at hiding with a reasonable firing arc and an amazing gun.
Reasonable is selling it cheap - its paired with the T40 as best fire arcs outside of turreted TDs
Eldariel
2012-06-04, 05:57 AM
I personally would aim for Tier Vs initially; the way is rather short and those are usually great money makers to get yourself going.
The least painful tree to climb is probably the German TD tree. Murder is the best tank for its tier, Hetzer has great TD traits (small profile, decent front armor, great camo values, fast) and Stug is extremely solid all-around. Panzerjäger I, like all tier 2s, is kinda whatever but it's not a problem really. The other two TD trees are fine too though; basically all nations have fairly good Tier 2-5 TDs (Russians have the beastly SU-85 at Tier 5 for instance) but I was highlighting Germans since Murder comes so early and is so amazing.
The Russian Medium tree is also great. T-46 and T-28 both get amazing guns for their tier and they're actually fairly fast too. Their armor is pretty terrible and T-28 is prone to getting tracked all the time but they bring the pain and there are no tanks of their tier that can take hits from them. Then you get KV-1 which is probably the second best Tier V tank in the game.
Other great Tier Vs you can aim for include T-34 (but doing so involves grinding through A-20 which I really don't suggest as your first tank tree) & PzIV (probably the best Tier V in the game; Pz38na is kind of a pain tho so same consideration as above). Sherman isn't awful either but M3 Lee is so it depends on your tolerance. Either way, the reason I say "aim for Tier V" is because those are generally the most efficient tanks for generating money (Tier V or Tier VI is the most efficient, but Tier VI has, in my experience, much fewer high tier games than Tier V).
Oh, and every nation's arty works out decently though Germans have Sturmpanzer as basically a tier 3 version of Bison mucking it up; you should probably go through Wespe if you want to play German arty (and German arty is, IMHO, the best up until tier 7 with Grille, Hummel and GwPanther all being beasts for their tier).
And yeah, I suggest you try one Medium/Heavy Tank Tree, one TD tree and one SPG tree to see which playstyle you like the best (or if you want them all). With light tanks, I'd wait a bit; light tanks have their own unique play style higher up but you kinda need things like equipment and good crew to really make them work out. Of course, this really only applies to Tier 4+ Lights as their matchmaking treats them as Scout Tanks; Tier 1-3 tanks, light or not, act as combat tanks in low tier games since they're only paired up against each other most of the time.
groz_nez
2012-06-04, 09:39 AM
For me there are also quite a few low tier tanks I like.
American:
Tiers I-III are quite decent as far as I'm concerned at least in the medium/heavy tree. M3 Lee is not completely rubbish but not good either.
French:
What I've played and seen H35 is quite nice for tier II but after that they are pretty terrible as they are slow and have horrible guns. Tier V it gets better but would recommend for first tree.
Germany:
I like quite a few German low tier tanks, PzII is ton of fun as for it's tier it has quite nice automatic gun. Pz35t and Pz38t are very decent tanks for their tier. Then there is the the TD line which offer Marder II for tier III and StugIII for tier V. Both of them are excellent tanks. Personally I'm not really that impressed of German low tier arty although it is very decent.
USSR:
I started first playing Russian tanks and have to say they are quite good beginner tanks. I still take MS-1 to occasional drive around the block. Both T-26 and T-46 are reasonably fast tanks with decent guns. T-28 (the mail van) has beastly gun in the end. Its main problem is its large size which makes it an easy target (especially from the side) and paper thin armor. But if get to good position it can really ruin enemy teams game. One thing to keep in mind when starting to grind Russian TDs is that their stock gun are lousy compared to best guns you can research for them. After researching best guns tier III-V TDs become real money makers.
Also had pretty amazing game with Eldariel last night.
We platooned with Stugs and ended up in tier III-V game. Map was Sand River.
First we cleared up the top half of the map with help of one T49. Then we had to rush to defend our base as enemy team in lower half had annihilated our team.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9862/shot144.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/shot144.jpg/)
Just as Eldariel destroys last enemy heavy tank, their arty manages to kill him. :smallfrown:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2788/shot146r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/shot146r.jpg/)
After killing PzIII capping our base it's time to hunt down enemy artillery. I manage to find him and because he is M7 Priest I first ding from his frontal armor. Luckily he also misses. I drive over the sand dune and shoot him into side which penetrates. Lastly finish him off by ramming him. :smallbiggrin:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4383/shot141ho.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/shot141ho.jpg/)
In the end stats I find out that I got defender, sniper and top gun. I also got ace tanker for my Stug. :smallcool:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9108/shot152u.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/shot152u.jpg/)
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5337/shot151dw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/shot151dw.jpg/)
Oh, if you like fast, mobile tanks with big guns, there is no better option than the US turreted TD tree. (M8A1, T49 and M18). I'm loving my Hellcat and planning to pimp the hell out of her later. Be warned though, they have aluminium foil for armour, so don't expect to deflect any hits. Even Tier II tanks can penetrate your armour with ease.
After that, (T25/2 and above) the playstyle changes a little to a weird TD/medium tank hybrid, since you can't zoom around anymore. It's still decent, but well, I find T25/2 to be rather underwhelming.
Eldariel
2012-06-04, 12:30 PM
Btw, does anybody aside from Groz_nez and I play on EU here? Would be fun to play with other Playgrounders occasionally.
Erloas
2012-06-04, 12:57 PM
I play in the US, on whatever default server it set for me (if there is any way to change it, I don't know)
I'm really liking the KV-1 so far. Win rating at around 58% though thats only through about 30-40 matches. Also averaging around 1.4 kills per game, which isn't bad considering how often I end up in higher tier games. I haven't managed to get Steel Wall yet, which is a surprise to me, had one game where I took 25 or so shots and lived but a T29 beat me out for the badge, and another one where I took 37 rounds but didn't survive. I just got the Top Gun with the KV-1 last night in a rather epic win.
The battle was (I never remember map names) in the map with the ice road and bridge, we were on the South. I set up on the bridge corridor and killed one there then moved up and shot another in the valley, but by that time the enemy had pushed hard up the ice road and all of the friendlies left had pushed hard on the far road. I started back to defend as they were already starting the countdown on our base before we got to theirs. By the time I'm pulling around the corner they had the base cap at 70% and we had just started. I forget what all was there... but I think it was 5 vehicles total. I take out a hurt medium as I pull up and just hope to reset a bit before I go down. They keep pelting me but very little gets through and I'm slowly picking them off. I ended up killing 4-5 of them while stopped right in the middle of them, get the Top Gun and Defender but die just before we cap their base and miss out on the Steel Wall (that was the game where I took 37 hits). Don't remember what all was there, AMX 40 and M4 for sure, think a Pz3/4 and a T tank (which I realize is 80% of the Russian tanks...) also think a Marauder II.
Reaver225
2012-06-04, 01:05 PM
Ah, I'm on the EU server.
However I've only got as my highest tanks the KV-2 and KV-1s, oh, and my AMX-13-75 and a half-upgraded Panther.
I still like derping around in my SU-26 and T-28, and have a T-50 and T-50-2 on hand if you need a scout.
Currently trying to grind up A-20 to get back into the T-34 and above Russian mediums.
-I'd post a whole discussion about proper ways of scouting, but there's no right way to do so. I've zipped past many heavies, both distant and right up close, both waited and rushed, suicide-scouted and passively scouted and actively ran right past the enemy... but there's no "best way" of scouting, only a few methods each person should try.
The only thing I have to say is if you're one-on-one up against a heavy and no-one else nearby, take a chance and try to kill it, especially with the french light tanks. It's possible if you keep circling to kill even a tiger from full health in a T-50-2 if he's not doing too well.
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-04, 03:12 PM
Another thing, after you are destroyed (which will happen a lot I understand) you can just quit the match and join another?
I didn't see this question answered, so I'll just throw out there than the answer is yes. :smallsmile: There's no problem just quitting a battle you've died in and jumping in another tank.
Gnoman
2012-06-04, 03:25 PM
Of course, you have to have another tank availiable.
One tip: If you have the money, spending 20 bucks for a premium tank makes experimenting with the various trees much less painful, as they tend to generate large amounts of credits easily. The first couple of tiers go by fairly quickly in terms of experience, but actually buying the tanks you ulock is a bit of a pain. It's not necessary, but it helps.
Priest33
2012-06-04, 07:01 PM
so played through the tutorial for the game and got a t3 M3 with 100% crew, wich currently has a win rating of 83% for me and I already have the top badge. It seems to only get matched with t2-3 tanks as well to makes the game very easy.
On the other hand my t-46 (or 40? not sure) in the russian tree seems to get paired with t4-6 tanks and thus i get... owned fast. Might be better once I unlock the 72 cannon but for now its a bit of a pain, still got my rank 2 badge for it so far and have a win percentage of 40.
all in all a fun game so far
psilontech
2012-06-04, 10:52 PM
Finishing off the very last of my free experience, I've finally graduated from that horrid thing, the AMX40.
My first match in the AMX 12t was a bit of a learning experience. I groaned at how awful the initial loading time for the cannon was before heading off to face off against the gaggle of Lowes and Chinese Death Machines in the hopes of slipping past them to the enemy arty or something else equally squishy.
Loosed my first shell on another light before hiding behind a building, expecting a long reload when I finally noticed the extra bit added to the HUD indicating the number of shells I had ready to rock and roll. I cackled mildly and let fly the rest of the magazine into the M18 Hellcat that was coming to maul me (Do ho ho) before declaring over all-chat of my excited discovery - Just after I finished typing, a Hummel shell landed on top of me, finishing me off.
I'm not incredibly slow anymore (Though my acceleration and 'top' speed better improve with the next engine), my cannon is still terrible in the PEN and accuracy departments, but my God, I never have to do so much as think of playing the AMX40 again!
Finishing off the very last of my free experience, I've finally graduated from that horrid thing, the AMX40.
My first match in the AMX 12t was a bit of a learning experience. I groaned at how awful the initial loading time for the cannon was before heading off to face off against the gaggle of Lowes and Chinese Death Machines in the hopes of slipping past them to the enemy arty or something else equally squishy.
Loosed my first shell on another light before hiding behind a building, expecting a long reload when I finally noticed the extra bit added to the HUD indicating the number of shells I had ready to rock and roll. I cackled mildly and let fly the rest of the magazine into the M18 Hellcat that was coming to maul me (Do ho ho) before declaring over all-chat of my excited discovery - Just after I finished typing, a Hummel shell landed on top of me, finishing me off.
I'm not incredibly slow anymore (Though my acceleration and 'top' speed better improve with the next engine), my cannon is still terrible in the PEN and accuracy departments, but my God, I never have to do so much as think of playing the AMX40 again!
Congratulations on getting past the painful part.
As for me, I couldn't even get past the H35. Dear lord, that thing is almost as slow as my SU-14 and after the Hellcat, I never really could stand a slow tank.
Feh, anything feels fast after stumbling around in an E-75 without the 1200 hp engine. My mobility was so terrible, I opted to research said engine over the 128 mm because I couldn't reach fights fast enough, or hide as necessary.
I skipped to the 1375 to not have to suffer through the low french (i have a 1390 now but its not going out till i can unlock the 90mm as i don't want to play it as a 75 with more hp)
groz_nez
2012-06-05, 05:08 AM
I spent all my free experience on test server to get fully upgraded AMX 12t. Have to say it is like no other tank I have played so far. Even though traverse isn't stellar, the speed is insane. I have to say on that gun cylinder feels like a mad scientist type thing. Testing it almost convinced me to buy AMX 40 and start the grind towards it.
I was wondering how much people tend to ram other tanks?
I tend do it quite often, even if sometimes it's not the best course of action. I have many fond memories of ramming other tanks. One was in El Halluf. I was at top part of map atop the hill in my KV (this was before 7.3 patch). Just as I look around the corner downhill, I see Stug has placed itself at root of the hill. Grinning widely I start accelerating down the hill towards the stug. He gets two shots off of which one dings. I hit him full speed and his feather light stug just explodes. :smallbiggrin:
I spent all my free experience on test server to get fully upgraded AMX 12t. Have to say it is like no other tank I have played so far. Even though traverse isn't stellar, the speed is insane. I have to say on that gun cylinder feels like a mad scientist type thing. Testing it almost convinced me to buy AMX 40 and start the grind towards it.
I was wondering how much people tend to ram other tanks?
I tend do it quite often, even if sometimes it's not the best course of action. I have many fond memories of ramming other tanks. One was in El Halluf. I was at top part of map atop the hill in my KV (this was before 7.3 patch). Just as I look around the corner downhill, I see Stug has placed itself at root of the hill. Grinning widely I start accelerating down the hill towards the stug. He gets two shots off of which one dings. I hit him full speed and his feather light stug just explodes. :smallbiggrin:
All the time. :smallbiggrin: Although more often than not I'm usually driving the T-34 or the M18 to ram stuff, instead of KVs.
Brother Oni
2012-06-05, 05:43 AM
Btw, does anybody aside from Groz_nez and I play on EU here? Would be fun to play with other Playgrounders occasionally.
I think I'm on the EU server (didn't see an option as to where I was connected, but my latency looks to be about right for EU).
My name there's the same as my LoL one - MarineHK4861.
Started playing yesterday, still trying to get a feel for the mechanics.
Reaver225
2012-06-05, 06:07 AM
Just a note, my username is the same here on the EU server, forgot to say that last time.
I'm not incredibly slow anymore (Though my acceleration and 'top' speed better improve with the next engine), my cannon is still terrible in the PEN and accuracy departments, but my God, I never have to do so much as think of playing the AMX40 again!It's a beaut, isn't it?
The cannon gets better - the later ones have high penetration, even if you really can't aim (it's a perfect backstabber tank of six quick shots and then FLEE).
Just a note: engines do NOT increase top speed, that goes to the SUSPENSION. Engines mainly increase acceleration, especially up slopes.
Handling is an odd mix of both, but mainly suspension.
When you've got a chance, upgrade your suspension first always.
Erloas
2012-06-05, 07:54 AM
Engines increase the effective top speed though. The "top speed" listed on the tank is fixed (based on transmission), its not based on the tracks. Most tanks however will never reach their top speed or if they do its on a downhill slope. How close you come to reaching that top speed (so your effective top speed) is a combination of engine HP and the mass of the vehicle. And yes, mass makes a difference, so I'm sure adding ad-ons to the tank, which increase mass, also make you slower, whether its a real noticeable amount is another question. I know the VK... something I have I really noticed the speed drop when I changed turrets to one that was about 2k KG more then they stock one, so about 8-10% of the total weight of the tank.
I had a great few battles in the AMX12t last night, getting 2-3 kills in 3 games in a row as a lower tier light tank is pretty good. Including one match where a Chaffee catches me with only 2 rounds in the clip which I shoot then run and take a few shots but he doesn't get me while I reload (14 seconds) and I managed to kill him with 10hp left. Then an M5 shows up and we're circling and running into each other and we're too close to actually hit half the time and I manage to kill him on the last shot of the clip. Then a bit later another AMX12t engages the TD Jagd IV just up the hill from me and I manage to save him at 2% life left.
All the time. :smallbiggrin: Although more often than not I'm usually driving the T-34 or the M18 to ram stuff, instead of KVs.
M18 is not a good candidate for ramming much since it has the very low armour and you often are as badly off as the thing you hit.
The things you find out: The Wespe can carry AP shells. A bit o raging just subsided when i looked that up as one just took my SU-26 out point blank and didn't kill its self - i had tried to maneuver to make it ram me and die (it was on 11hp) Still it should be destroyed from the direct hit when it was on 110hp...
M18 is not a good candidate for ramming much since it has the very low armour and you often are as badly off as the thing you hit.
Never said it was a good idea. :smalltongue: But sometimes ramming that 1% KV is just so worth it. Also, those pesky T50s when they circle around you.
M18 is not a good candidate for ramming much since it has the very low armour and you often are as badly off as the thing you hit.
The things you find out: The Wespe can carry AP shells. A bit o raging just subsided when i looked that up as one just took my SU-26 out point blank and didn't kill its self - i had tried to maneuver to make it ram me and die (it was on 11hp) Still it should be destroyed from the direct hit when it was on 110hp...
Only time i ever see my Types top speed is going down a hill where as the T-44 happily reaches it fast on flat terrain
Rustic Dude
2012-06-05, 10:46 AM
M18 is not a good candidate for ramming much since it has the very low armour and you often are as badly off as the thing you hit.
Just a little nitpicking: ramming damage(taken and dealt) has more to do with the weight of both vehicles and the speed than anything.
Just a little nitpicking: ramming damage(taken and dealt) has more to do with the weight of both vehicles and the speed than anything.
And having armour (and a spall liner) helps reduce that damage and the Hellcat is light compared to most things it faces.
The KV vs Hell cat example has a tank that at most weighs 18t hitting one that weighs at most 47.8t
Rustic Dude
2012-06-05, 12:04 PM
I am just not so sure armor is used in the ramming equation. It just happens that heavier tanks tend to have more armor too, so they are good battering rams and ramming one of them means you get spattered on it, regardless if you rammed its front or its back.
psilontech
2012-06-05, 02:11 PM
Running around in my PzIV, waiting for my AMX 12t to get out of a battle I was one-shot by a derp KV-2. This lead me to dusting off the brute from the little-used corner or my garage, mounting the derpcannon and taking it for a stroll.
Ended up in a tier-nine match with it, making me glad I was derping around - Finished off a Jagdtiger from 12% health before hiding around a corner to reload. Lo and behold as soon as I reload an E-75 rounds the corner of the street chasing a T32 - I take aim at the side of his turret, smack his ammo rack (I guess that's where it is) and one-shotted him to hell from 91% health!
I promptly apologized, knowing how frustrating the damn derpcannon can be from the other end of the barrel.
Hmm yes i looked it up and Armour hasn't much to do with it but larger mass has a lot to do with it. The rammer will likely suffer as much as the target if they are not as heavy.
This i post after a game where i won the game by pasting to a SU-26 into a bunker with a ram with my SU-85.
Eldariel
2012-06-05, 03:57 PM
Running around in my PzIV, waiting for my AMX 12t to get out of a battle I was one-shot by a derp KV-2. This lead me to dusting off the brute from the little-used corner or my garage, mounting the derpcannon and taking it for a stroll.
Ended up in a tier-nine match with it, making me glad I was derping around - Finished off a Jagdtiger from 12% health before hiding around a corner to reload. Lo and behold as soon as I reload an E-75 rounds the corner of the street chasing a T32 - I take aim at the side of his turret, smack his ammo rack (I guess that's where it is) and one-shotted him to hell from 91% health!
I promptly apologized, knowing how frustrating the damn derpcannon can be from the other end of the barrel.
I'm more and more inclined to think it's the Tier 6 Heavy I'm going to keep. With Tier 6 MM wanting to constantly throw me to Tier 10 games, it's the only way to be sure I'll be relevant and damn if it isn't satisfying to blast a T95 through the back armor for 900.
Priest33
2012-06-05, 05:25 PM
So after a bit of grinding (was still fun tho) I got into the next teir of tanks, and all I can say is I hope the person that designed the t-28 was shot. This tank is more like a block of units on the side with a kid's toy gun pew pewing at people. Not only is the thing huge, it cant turn to save its life, has so many glaring weak spots that I dont see how anyone that drove this survived, and whilst its "fast" in a straight line it cant traverse hill. With every fiber of my being, I hate this tank.
My mate stated that it gets better with the "big gun" but honnestly I'd rather just grind to the next level of tank and ignore this traversty all together.
Eldariel
2012-06-05, 05:51 PM
So after a bit of grinding (was still fun tho) I got into the next teir of tanks, and all I can say is I hope the person that designed the t-28 was shot. This tank is more like a block of units on the side with a kid's toy gun pew pewing at people. Not only is the thing huge, it cant turn to save its life, has so many glaring weak spots that I dont see how anyone that drove this survived, and whilst its "fast" in a straight line it cant traverse hill. With every fiber of my being, I hate this tank.
My mate stated that it gets better with the "big gun" but honnestly I'd rather just grind to the next level of tank and ignore this traversty all together.
The best gun you get for it is amazing. Put into perspective, it's better than the best gun for T-34 on many statistics (and you can get T-34's best gun on T-28 too; the 85mm does way more DPM and has higher penetration tho, but the ZiS-4 is obscenely accurate)! It starts off terrible but fully upgraded T-28 is, while a paper-armored moving weak spot, also a fast, powerful damage platform with just plain obscene damage and decent accuracy.
It'll require you to practice up on the art of playing a medium tank; it's not a frontliner by any stretch of imagination. But when deployed as a Med in a flank using its mobility, or as a midrange gunner using its penetration, it's devastating.
Priest33
2012-06-05, 06:35 PM
I'll be honest, im more then happy to get the big gun for this, 85mm I think? but really the tank itself is so large that unless you are on a map with decent cover against equal or one teir higher tanks, I just cant see how it can work. So far in my.. 10ish games with it I have been last on the list for most and up against t5-7 tanks that have the mobility to equal this tank or are low profile enough that they can hit me whilst I cant hit them. I guess it will just take practice to get the hang of in the end, but I really am not enjoying this tank at all.
The t-34 atleast has a low profile and somewhat sloped armor, even if its best gun doesnt match the damage output of the t-28. I mean the t-28 is even bigger then the k1-IS and that tank walks all over the t-28. I guess MM might dislike the fact that I currently have an overall win rating of 66% and is trying to match me with harder people?
Eldariel
2012-06-05, 06:48 PM
I'll be honest, im more then happy to get the big gun for this, 85mm I think? but really the tank itself is so large that unless you are on a map with decent cover against equal or one teir higher tanks, I just cant see how it can work. So far in my.. 10ish games with it I have been last on the list for most and up against t5-7 tanks that have the mobility to equal this tank or are low profile enough that they can hit me whilst I cant hit them. I guess it will just take practice to get the hang of in the end, but I really am not enjoying this tank at all.
The t-34 atleast has a low profile and somewhat sloped armor, even if its best gun doesnt match the damage output of the t-28. I mean the t-28 is even bigger then the k1-IS and that tank walks all over the t-28. I guess MM might dislike the fact that I currently have an overall win rating of 66% and is trying to match me with harder people?
MM doesn't account for your win rate (unfortunately). You have no idea how vexing it is to play with those players who have managed 10k games with 45% win rate for very obvious reasons. This game could really use a forced tutorial about the basics...
But yeah, T-28 is inconveniently shaped but well armed. I'm not saying it's better than T-34 but if you engage with it at a recent range or against already engaged targets from the flanks, you can use its gun to wreak havoc. It's not PzIV or T-34 to be sure, but it's IMHO the best Tier 4 medium tank in the game (immensely better than M3 Lee and significantly better than PzIII, which has some armor but no firepower; and yeah, better than B1 & AMX 40 too - worse than just about all the TDs of its tier IMHO tho).
Reaver225
2012-06-05, 06:57 PM
The best gun you get for it is amazing. Put into perspective, it's better than the best gun for T-34 on many statistics (and you can get T-34's best gun on T-28 too; the 85mm does way more DPM and has higher penetration tho, but the ZiS-4 is obscenely accurate)! It starts off terrible but fully upgraded T-28 is, while a paper-armored moving weak spot, also a fast, powerful damage platform with just plain obscene damage and decent accuracy.
It'll require you to practice up on the art of playing a medium tank; it's not a frontliner by any stretch of imagination. But when deployed as a Med in a flank using its mobility, or as a midrange gunner using its penetration, it's devastating.
Seconding this so very hard. If I were able I'd bring up my screenshots of wiping out entire swathes of enemies who underestimate me in my T-28. It is not quite as zippy to start with, no. Train your crew to 75% and upgrade tracks and engine, watch yourself zip to 45+ mph in no time. While you will always have arty-thin paper armour when you get that ZiS-4 cannon you will be able to destroy even KV-3s from the side, and most tanks your tier in 23-4 shots from any angle whatsoever - you'll pen everything in a relatively zippy tank. You'll see.
My T-28 is a joy to brawl in, dancing about isolated heavies to slowly rip them apart shell by shell while I dodge around them. Occasionally you get one or two-shotted, but you get that with all tanks. At least you'll learn plenty about cover being the best armour.
otakuryoga
2012-06-05, 07:02 PM
i actually make t-28's a pretty high priority
--just because they are so easy to take out for the amount of pain they can potentially cause
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-05, 09:25 PM
Well, I have the American medium tree capped out. Just researched the last module on the Patton. :smallsmile:
Priest33
2012-06-05, 10:08 PM
Do you guys advise to keep going down the tech tree and unlocking tanks or should I focus on the tanks I have an maxing them out?
Not having an issue with money or xp for doing this, just wondering if it was a good idea or not.
Samuel Sturm
2012-06-05, 10:28 PM
I think I finally figured out how to play the T-50. Run around with HE and shoot whatever you're closest to. Never stop moving. :smallbiggrin:
http://s13.postimage.org/4ici3njmv/shot_005.jpg
I consider that a good game, how about you? :smallcool:
Incidentally, I'm on the NA server as Samuel_Sturm, if anyone wants to play. If you look me up, keep in mind I've been grinding the french tanks. /wince
psilontech
2012-06-05, 10:40 PM
I've been having fun with my T-50 and grinding through the french tanks as well. I might look you up.
Going to have to try that HE thing. You using the tier five *dat dat dat!* *Rat Tat!* gun there?
Samuel Sturm
2012-06-05, 10:53 PM
I've been having fun with my T-50 and grinding through the french tanks as well. I might look you up.
Going to have to try that HE thing. You using the tier five *dat dat dat!* *Rat Tat!* gun there?
No, I'm using the 57mm ZiS-8. Fits my playstyle better. O, and the one kill on the opposing T-50 there? Tracked him and then rammed him from behind. Cracked half my team up, and some of theirs. It happened on top of the hill in the open area, so there were shells flying _everywhere_. So much fun / scary as heck.
Erloas
2012-06-05, 11:27 PM
Tonight has been... bad. I think I've went about 4 wins to about 8 losses tonight, almost always a low tier tank for the match and just keep getting killed really quickly. Its been most annoying.
I'm also erloas on the US server.
Brother Oni
2012-06-06, 02:31 AM
MM doesn't account for your win rate (unfortunately). You have no idea how vexing it is to play with those players who have managed 10k games with 45% win rate for very obvious reasons. This game could really use a forced tutorial about the basics...
Do you mind pointing me in the direction of a good role guide then?
I'm starting to get the idea of light and medium tanks (take out softer targets, don't get involved in toe to toe slugging matches with heavier tanks) and SPGs (once I found the L-Shift = bombard mode), but I cannot get my head around Tank destroyers.
I'm figuring stay well back and snipe, but since I can't find a listed range for cannons except on SPGs, I can't figure out what ranges I can engage at.
groz_nez
2012-06-06, 04:49 AM
Do you guys advise to keep going down the tech tree and unlocking tanks or should I focus on the tanks I have an maxing them out?
Not having an issue with money or xp for doing this, just wondering if it was a good idea or not.
Personally I would say it depends about your personal preferences. I'm still playing MS-1 (almost have 100% crew in it). Lower tier tanks almost always make profit from matches and if you like them I'd say keep playing them. I would also suggest, that you try get higher tier tanks as there are many fun tanks to play in higher tiers. Also the roles of different types of tanks become much clearer in higher tier matches. Especially higher tier arty can be extremely fun, when you blast 1,1k hp with one shot from tier 10 T110E5. :smallbiggrin:
Do you mind pointing me in the direction of a good role guide then?
I'm starting to get the idea of light and medium tanks (take out softer targets, don't get involved in toe to toe slugging matches with heavier tanks) and SPGs (once I found the L-Shift = bombard mode), but I cannot get my head around Tank destroyers.
I'm figuring stay well back and snipe, but since I can't find a listed range for cannons except on SPGs, I can't figure out what ranges I can engage at.
First of all here is some common basic strategy tips:
http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Tactics
Secondly even though I haven't played very high tier TDs, I can say that hiding behind bushes or cover is usually the best way to play TDs. That in mind you shouldn't be afraid to change locations if situation calls for it, like your other flank is being overrun. Also learning weak spots on heavier tanks can be life saver because some cases you might not be able to penetrate their frontal armor from straight ahead.
Lastly I don't think SPG cannon ranges can be found anywhere in in-game stats. I would suggest checking wiki (http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Main_Page) if they mention anything about range in the page for specific artillery. Also I suggest checking the so called fragmentation scatter value (can be found on the tool tip when hovering cursor over the artillery in garage). It can be also found in tank calculator (check ammunition stats in there). This value tells how big is your artillery shell blast radius. Basically that is the area in which your shell can do damage. It can help determine whether artillery which has more inaccurate gun is actually lousier or not.
Hope this helps. :smallsmile:
Edit: Just found this piece of advice http://worldoftanks.eu/game/guide/en/newcomers-guide/tanks-tactics which is basically what you asked for.
Brother Oni
2012-06-06, 06:47 AM
Lastly I don't think SPG cannon ranges can be found anywhere in in-game stats. I would suggest checking wiki (http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Main_Page) if they mention anything about range in the page for specific artillery. Also I suggest checking the so called fragmentation scatter value (can be found on the tool tip when hovering cursor over the artillery in garage). It can be also found in tank calculator (check ammunition stats in there). This value tells how big is your artillery shell blast radius. Basically that is the area in which your shell can do damage. It can help determine whether artillery which has more inaccurate gun is actually lousier or not.
Sorry, I think there's been a bit of a misunderstanding. SPG ranges are easy to find - see how far you can hit while in bombard mode (about 600m for the bison and sturmpanzer II).
I just don't know the ranges for all the other tanks - the only stat I can find is an 'accuracy at 100m' value.
The main reason I'm asking is that I've recently picked up the M2 American medium tank and fitted it with the 75mm Howitzer, which only has 2 listed penetration/damage ranges. Does that mean it can't reach long range, or are two of the ranges merged together or some other combination?
Thanks for the other guides, I'll browse through them.
Edit: Never mind, the #/#/# values are for penetration and damage at 100m for the different ammo types, not ranges. Still can't find a reference to effective weapon ranges though.
Eldariel
2012-06-06, 07:12 AM
Sorry, I think there's been a bit of a misunderstanding. SPG ranges are easy to find - see how far you can hit while in bombard mode (about 600m for the bison and sturmpanzer II).
I just don't know the ranges for all the other tanks - the only stat I can find is an 'accuracy at 100m' value.
The main reason I'm asking is that I've recently picked up the M2 American medium tank and fitted it with the 75mm Howitzer, which only has 2 listed penetration/damage ranges. Does that mean it can't reach long range, or are two of the ranges merged together or some other combination?
Thanks for the other guides, I'll browse through them.
Edit: Never mind, the #/#/# values are for penetration and damage at 100m for the different ammo types, not ranges. Still can't find a reference to effective weapon ranges though.
There's no such thing for anything but SPGs. Even for SPGs, the statistics are not listed anywhere in-game; you actually have to go see 'em for yourself. I think Tier 2s, Sturmpanzer & SU-26 and the worse guns for Wespe & M36 and Tier 4s have the 600m range and the rest have 1200m (not quite sufficient for corner-to-corner fire on some maps).
Your view range is your attack range (well, you can shoot beyond your view range but basically, as long as there's no physical obstacle between you and the target you can shoot). Though some weapons become unbearably inaccurate soon enough and just about any cannon has trouble hitting consistently at extreme ranges. So...yeah, if you see someone, don't be afraid to try and shoot 'em especially if your shells aren't terribly expensive (they aren't early on). The better the crew and the more accurate the gun, the better your chances of course.
Mind, your penetration decreases by range though so if you don't have solid penetration, it can be hard to penetrate heavier armor at long ranges. This is why ideal sniper tanks have good penetration and accuracy for their tier, such as Panzer IV's top gun.
I can list the ranges for the Russian SPG tree at least.
SU-18: 600m
SU-26: 600m
SU-5: 600m
SU-8: 900m
SU-14: 1200m
The main reason I'm asking is that I've recently picked up the M2 American medium tank and fitted it with the 75mm Howitzer, which only has 2 listed penetration/damage ranges. Does that mean it can't reach long range, or are two of the ranges merged together or some other combination?
.
HE Shells and HEAT Shells (Standard and Premium Ammo respectively)
As to ranges the longest shot i have hit with my 152mm is 525m - took 25% off a KV-5
Reaver225
2012-06-06, 08:30 AM
In general, for turretless TDs hide in a bush, shoot anyone far away. However, what you really want to do is get in a position where you can hit tank sides while your own front is protected.
And make sure arty can't hit you. TDs are great for arty to whack from the sides.
With regards to range/penetration, the power does drop off for AP shells at range, but not for HE (as it doesn't matter how far you shoot a bomb at someone, it'll still blow up the same).
But what is FAR more important is hitting the enemy head-on. The more at an angle you hit the enemy, the more armour you have to penetrate to get inside. Hitting the front at 90 degrees is better than hitting the side at 2 degrees - the shot will just bounce off, or it'll have to go through more armour.
If you're perpendicular to a tank and you've got got an evacuation plan, take a shot. You might just penetrate that armour.
Jonzac
2012-06-06, 10:52 AM
Just got the long 105mm for my Tiger II...and I'm giddy. Like a school girl with Justin Beber tickets. I'm hitting and penetrating IS-4s and other Tier Xs
Picked up premium account for the week so I'll be on a bunch. I'm going to get taht T-34/85 before the week is over.
The Odds of that... 2 Battles tonight where there were 3 Azures. The first the other two were on the other side and then we were all on the same side a couple of games later (Kaze and Ice were platooned but i still didn't expect to see them again so it was good)
Just got my Ace Tanker for my M18. Life's good. :smallcool:
Jonzac
2012-06-06, 01:50 PM
Just got the long 105mm for my Tiger II...and I'm giddy. Like a school girl with Justin Beber tickets. I'm hitting and penetrating IS-4s and other Tier Xs
Picked up premium account for the week so I'll be on a bunch. I'm going to get taht T-34/85 before the week is over.
The best gun you get for it is amazing. Put into perspective, it's better than the best gun for T-34 on many statistics (and you can get T-34's best gun on T-28 too; the 85mm does way more DPM and has higher penetration tho, but the ZiS-4 is obscenely accurate)! It starts off terrible but fully upgraded T-28 is, while a paper-armored moving weak spot, also a fast, powerful damage platform with just plain obscene damage and decent accuracy.
It'll require you to practice up on the art of playing a medium tank; it's not a frontliner by any stretch of imagination. But when deployed as a Med in a flank using its mobility, or as a midrange gunner using its penetration, it's devastating.
Just saw this. I third any suggestion that you use the ZiS-4 on the T-28 or T-34, when you get it later on. This thing is an absolute beast and I have destroyed more than my fair share of unwary heavies who thought their armour would protect them. :smallbiggrin: (Especially those annoying KV-2s that mounts the 152mm. Jesus, you can't even make a mistake against those things.)
Also, got a Top Gun with my T-50 for some reason. Apparently it can duke it out with same tier mediums and lights as well. Can't pen a KV, but well, I don't plan on going up against heavies anyway.
Priest33
2012-06-06, 05:41 PM
So after slogging my way to the 85mm cannon for the t-28, fighting losing battles in constant games vs 5+ tier 7 vehicles (one game I had was vs 8 tier 7 vehicles, and 4 tier 6), the first game that I get to try this is against all teir 4/3/2 vehicles. I sat back and raked in 7 kills. Then quickly apologised to the enemy team and I know how they felt.
Will have to see how this gun does in the tier 7 games.
Nightson
2012-06-06, 06:09 PM
Sixth sense is the most amazing commander secondary skill ever.
Eldariel
2012-06-06, 06:15 PM
I disagree, sir. Mentor actually increases the overall number of secondary skills you get on all crew members (including Commander since all Accelerate Crew Training XP goes to Commander then) :smallbiggrin:
But yeah, Sixth Sense is really amazing on tanks where you need to know whether you're camoed or not.
Reaver225
2012-06-06, 08:28 PM
I disagree, sir. Mentor actually increases the overall number of secondary skills you get on all crew members (including Commander since all Accelerate Crew Training XP goes to Commander then) :smallbiggrin:
But yeah, Sixth Sense is really amazing on tanks where you need to know whether you're camoed or not.
Less great nowadays for arty; people are picking up counterbattery much much faster - Even me in my SU-26 has managed to take down Wespe and Hummels with counter battery. Just track the tracer to the origin and make the kill. Good to keep players on their toes.
I maxed out mentor on the SU-26 before training another skill up... Then dropping skills/perks and taking sixth sense so it started at 100% while spending no gold. Training a perk up from scratch is painful and it's better to retrain and lose some experience than to waste all those battles grinding when another skill could help out more on the way there. I did the same with my T-28 on my gunner.
Note: ZiS-4 + deadeye perk? Kill ALL THE MODULES.
psilontech
2012-06-06, 10:41 PM
I would much rather do hitpoint damage than module damage just about any day of the week. Sure, sometimes you take out their gun or turret, but 90% of the time, they are still coming at you shooting with 100% health.
I had a match earlier Today in my T32 where I hit ("It looks like it went right through!") an IS-8 seven or eight times in various places with no bounces, each time doing no bounces and not causing him to kill my teammates any less. It was SUPREMELY irritating and would make me view the Deadeye perk as more of a determent than a boon.
A slightly similar story - I was derping around in my KV-2 when an M-18 Hellcat comes bounding around the corner looking for our arty when I blammed the hell out of him, obviously expecting it to go down in one shot given the 'Tier I tanks penetrate this armor with ease' armor coupled with not only the open top but the sheer damage that HE shell does to freaking tier tens. It blew off his track for no damage - He repaired and hounded me to death while I was reloading.
Now, if 'critical hits' did regular HP damage on top of damaging the module, that would be a different story...
Brother Oni
2012-06-07, 01:58 AM
Question on crews - is it better to retrain exisiting crew members for the next tank upgrade in their line so their skills and perks carry over?
Presumably if you're just quickly grinding up the levels and your old crew has no skills/perks and only a minor amount of experience, it's better to ditch them and start with a fresh crew.
Question on crews - is it better to retrain exisiting crew members for the next tank upgrade in their line so their skills and perks carry over?
Presumably if you're just quickly grinding up the levels and your old crew has no skills/perks and only a minor amount of experience, it's better to ditch them and start with a fresh crew.
Correct. The rough cut off point where it's better to retrain your existing crew would be around 83%.
SanguisAevum
2012-06-07, 04:50 AM
I concur with the assertion that mentor is an amazing perk, so much so that it is on all of my commanders, regardless of tank. Lost count of the number of times it has saved me.
I also concur with the assertion that immediate scout rushing is the very worst (tactically speaking) way to play dedicated scouts. Sure, its fun, and it sometimes pays off in low tier games, but past tier 3 you should know your NOT being very useful to your team. A scouts value really comes into play mid and late game, when lines have opened somewhat, tanks are being more cautious, and the enemy REALLY needs lighting up for your arty.
To the fella who asked about TDs... Don't camp IN bushes... camp BEHIND them. The best use of a TD is with forward observers spotting targets for you. In this situation, keep the bush in-between you and your target, and ensure you CANNOT see through the bush as a transparent mass. (this means you are far enough back from it, that it will still count its camouflage value for you even if you fire. This is the reason you sometimes get hit by TDs you cant see... They have one or more bushes BETWEEN them and you, and are using spotters to light targets for them.
Using this tactic, a full camo crew, and a camo net, I can fire at an enemy 60-70 meters away and STILL remain undetected by them. In situations where you have no spotters, you will need to get close enough to the bush to see through it and thus have LOS in front of you. Just be aware that when you fire, the bush stops applying its camo value to you for a short while.
Always check your position by locking the traverse, and swinging the camera round in front of you. You should be a white outline behind the bush your using... if you can see some colour through it, your not hidden properly.
One of the most annoying things as Arty is have the scout rush off and then die with nothing happening and whining the rest of the battle that we didn't do anything. Low Tier This is due to being out a range and often being slow speed / High Tier this is due to long reload times and aiming.
The other is when the rest of the team lets a scout run amok in the back lines unopposed (i know its hard to stop a scout sometimes but when no-one tries then whines that arty is not doing its job its enough to want to shell your own tanks deliberately)
Brother Oni
2012-06-07, 06:57 AM
[Additional TD advice]
Thanks for the help. I'll give that a try tonight.
I had a game where I was relocating after every couple shots, so did decently (avoiding a couple near misses from enemy arty fire), but I was still hiding in the bush rather than behind it.
As an aside, I had a very silly game with my M2 medium on Himmelsdorf (http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/File:Himmelsdorf.jpg): there's a small park that usually gets contested by lines of tanks shooting at each other. I rushed ahead and ended up on the enemy side end of the park where I played poke and shoot shenanigans with about 3-4 enemy tanks for a couple minutes before I realised 'holy crap, I'm holding up their entire advance'.
They then started to outflank me and I had to run away screaming like a little girl (literally - my daughter was shouting "run Daddy!" as I was doing it). :smallbiggrin:
SanguisAevum
2012-06-07, 08:32 AM
Thanks for the help. I'll give that a try tonight.
I had a game where I was relocating after every couple shots, so did decently (avoiding a couple near misses from enemy arty fire), but I was still hiding in the bush rather than behind it.
As an aside, I had a very silly game with my M2 medium on Himmelsdorf (http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/File:Himmelsdorf.jpg): there's a small park that usually gets contested by lines of tanks shooting at each other. I rushed ahead and ended up on the enemy side end of the park where I played poke and shoot shenanigans with about 3-4 enemy tanks for a couple minutes before I realised 'holy crap, I'm holding up their entire advance'.
They then started to outflank me and I had to run away screaming like a little girl (literally - my daughter was shouting "run Daddy!" as I was doing it). :smallbiggrin:
The "street of death" on Himmle' is a particular bug bear of mine in high Tier games.
Consistently, you will see whole swaths of tanks rush to the corner points on the road under the hill, and just sit there camping.
Grrr
In reality, all it takes is one or two of your team's bigger guns to effectively hold that route for most of the match. If the rest of the team goes either over the hill (fast tanks) or down the tracks, you can have them encircled before they realise that half there team is being held up by just two or three guns. (obviously the centre, and other side road need some coverage too)
Cant count the number of times I have indicated that I will put my IS7 on that corner and hold them off, and that I need just one or two other big guns to hold with me, freeing the REST of the team to rush the other flank and/or the hill... Only to find all the team's heavies sitting behind me in the stupid street of death, and instead WE are the ones being flanked because the OTHER team is rushing the other side without opposition, instead of us doing it.
Bah!
Reaver225
2012-06-07, 08:34 AM
I would much rather do hitpoint damage than module damage just about any day of the week. Sure, sometimes you take out their gun or turret, but 90% of the time, they are still coming at you shooting with 100% health.
...Now, if 'critical hits' did regular HP damage on top of damaging the module, that would be a different story...Depending on where you shoot them, it *does*.
For mediums and lights, you can use your fast firing AP to score multiple hits on their sides and backs, where their ammo racks and engines are... With some luck you can pop a rack open or roast their engines or fuel tanks in a single hit. And that will almost disable them for an easy finish or kill them outright. Deadeye greatly helps with that, and a fast firing penetrating gun is perfect for the job.
Jonzac
2012-06-07, 08:44 AM
It is absolutely amazing the difference between a standard and premium account. The XP and silver difference of 50% is staggering...I don't lose money on my Tiger II. My T59 made me 70k one game, admittedly I had a great game but 70k!!!
I got my T-34-85 and its nice but the difference in MatchMaker (MM) between Tier 5 and 6 is brutal. I"ve unlocked the 85mm Tier 6 gun and tracks so far (Premium for the week is AWESOME). I'm just sitting grinding through T-34-85, Tiger II, T59 and the occational M4A3E2...been having a blast.
Jonzac
2012-06-07, 08:49 AM
Less great nowadays for arty; people are picking up counterbattery much much faster - Even me in my SU-26 has managed to take down Wespe and Hummels with counter battery. Just track the tracer to the origin and make the kill. Good to keep players on their toes.
I maxed out mentor on the SU-26 before training another skill up... Then dropping skills/perks and taking sixth sense so it started at 100% while spending no gold. Training a perk up from scratch is painful and it's better to retrain and lose some experience than to waste all those battles grinding when another skill could help out more on the way there. I did the same with my T-28 on my gunner.
Note: ZiS-4 + deadeye perk? Kill ALL THE MODULES.
So, you've verified (and done it yourself)...drop a 100% skill and then pick up a completely new one...and it starts at 100%? I have a whole crew on my Tiger II (moved from my Tiger) that is at 99% right now and I'd like to redo my perks/secondaries...if I can pick up new ones with no penalty that would be a godsend.
SanguisAevum
2012-06-07, 09:14 AM
So, you've verified (and done it yourself)...drop a 100% skill and then pick up a completely new one...and it starts at 100%? I have a whole crew on my Tiger II (moved from my Tiger) that is at 99% right now and I'd like to redo my perks/secondaries...if I can pick up new ones with no penalty that would be a godsend.
You have to pay gold to retrain skills/perks without loosing exp on the crewmember. If you retrain skills without using Gold, you loose a proportion of the crew members total EXP (the exact numbers are detailed in the skill retraining interface itself). You may still have enough total exp to maintain some of your skills, but you will loose at least some progress in your latest skill.
I speak from personal experience.
(and yes, i am talking about secondary skills / perks... not the crewmans main qualification. Which, incedently... uses the exact same mechanic... gold = 100% of current experience)
The "street of death" on Himmle' is a particular bug bear of mine in high Tier games.
Consistently, you will see whole swaths of tanks rush to the corner points on the road under the hill, and just sit there camping.
Grrr
In reality, all it takes is one or two of your team's bigger guns to effectively hold that route for most of the match. If the rest of the team goes either over the hill (fast tanks) or down the tracks, you can have them encircled before they realise that half there team is being held up by just two or three guns. (obviously the centre, and other side road need some coverage too)
Cant count the number of times I have indicated that I will put my IS7 on that corner and hold them off, and that I need just one or two other big guns to hold with me, freeing the REST of the team to rush the other flank and/or the hill... Only to find all the team's heavies sitting behind me in the stupid street of death, and instead WE are the ones being flanked because the OTHER team is rushing the other side without opposition, instead of us doing it.
Bah!
I was on the other end of this today. Me (M18) and a mate (M4A2E8) went up the hill and took out the lone VK who had the misfortune to be caught climbing the hill on the other side. Seeing all the enemy heavies stacked up at the road on 8, we decided to pay them a visit. We ended up killing all the heavies (An IS, two KV-3s and one derp KV) and sent the rest scurrying for cover. The rest of the match was a walkover from that point.
Reaver225
2012-06-07, 01:15 PM
So, you've verified (and done it yourself)...drop a 100% skill and then pick up a completely new one...and it starts at 100%? I have a whole crew on my Tiger II (moved from my Tiger) that is at 99% right now and I'd like to redo my perks/secondaries...if I can pick up new ones with no penalty that would be a godsend.As the person below you said, you do lose some experience, by a proportion of how much the person has. The more skills he's earned, the more he loses (unless you pay gold). If you pay silver you'll lose about 10% of the total XP earned, which if you've grinded a secondary skill a bit after you've got a skill to 100% you'll be able to choose a new skill/perk that starts at 100%, and your second skill/perk will take a hit.
It allows you to pick up perks when you've been a skill in place before.
EDIT:
Meanwhile, here's a choice. Should I buy an S-51, or a T-34, or an IS? I have no idea which I should go for!
groz_nez
2012-06-07, 03:39 PM
EDIT:
Meanwhile, here's a choice. Should I buy an S-51, or a T-34, or an IS? I have no idea which I should go for!
I have personal experiences from IS (~200 games) and S-51 (~80 games). I feel obligated to warn you that playing IS in matches where you are not the top tier can be very frustrating. This is because even with it's top gun you only get measly 175mm average penetration. Compared to Tiger or Tiger P which have 203mm average penetration in their top gun. Also T29 can have 198mm average penetration gun. This low penetration can be very frustrating especially against E-75 tanks, which seem to be extremely hard to penetrate even from the sides. That being said if you end up being top tier, it can be a world of fun especially with the 122mm top gun which deals sweet damage to lower tier enemies. Also learning weak spots of higher tier tanks is a must. Getting win percentage to 50% was quite hard but manageable.
S-51 with 203mm top gun is world of fun. You can one shot Tier VI-VII heavy tanks (if you get little lucky) and deal very devastating blows to even Tier X tanks. Only down side is the excruciatingly long reload time (even with 100% crew and rammer). In wiki it actually states that next arty (Object 212) is actually a downgrade from S-51. Because it's larger, slower and less agile. It also has same top gun.
What I've seen and heard T-34 is fun to play if you know how to play to it's advantages like speed and fast RoF. Though I've been told that PzIV is somewhat superior at same tier. This is mainly due the fact that it manages to deal more damage (at least in our games).
Has anyone else heard the good news:
List of changes between test #1 and test #2 of v7.4:
-Removed the Komarin and Swamp maps from the pool for random battles. :smallbiggrin:
Hopefully this carries to final patch.
Here are a couple other highlights:
-Added two new combat modes appearing randomly: Attack and Encounter.
*Attack: one team defends the only base whilst the second team should capture it or destroy all enemy vehicles. The mode is activated for Erlenberg, Prokhorovka, Westfield, Karelia, Malinovka, Sand River, and Siegfried Line.
*Encounter: both teams try to capture the single base in the center of the map or to destroy all enemy vehicles to win. The mode is activated for El Halluf, Murovanka, Steppes, Ensk, Himmelsdorf, Ruinberg, Malinovka, Sand River, and Siegfried Line.
- Added the option of sending chat messages to your platoon.
- Added forward/rewind to combat replay playbacks.
-Added the option of training skills and perks for combined qualifications of crew (for example, training perks and skills of Radio Operator, when a Commander combines qualifications of a Commander and Radio Operator).
-In order to reduce the amount of issues with "questionable" non-penetration/penetration hits, reworked the system of damaging with HE and armor-piercing shells. In some cases the chance of damage and critical hits from HE shells increases.
-Repair Kits now fix both tracks if they have both been damaged.
-Added notes about relevant discounts in the game client.
-Added the option of switching on the "server" reticle marker to the game settings.
Full list of chages can be found here: http://worldoftanks.eu/news/2676-second-public-test-version-74/
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-07, 04:35 PM
One of the most annoying things as Arty is have the scout rush off and then die with nothing happening and whining the rest of the battle that we didn't do anything. Low Tier This is due to being out a range and often being slow speed / High Tier this is due to long reload times and aiming.
The other is when the rest of the team lets a scout run amok in the back lines unopposed (i know its hard to stop a scout sometimes but when no-one tries then whines that arty is not doing its job its enough to want to shell your own tanks deliberately)
Which is why I spent a page pointing out that the M3 Stuart guide was all wrong back there. This is precisely the reason. :smalltongue:
psilontech
2012-06-07, 04:54 PM
Has anyone else heard the good news:
List of changes between test #1 and test #2 of v7.4:
-Removed the Komarin and Swamp maps from the pool for random battles. :smallbiggrin:
Hopefully this carries to final patch.
Here are a couple other highlights:
-Added two new combat modes appearing randomly: Attack and Encounter.
*Attack: one team defends the only base whilst the second team should capture it or destroy all enemy vehicles. The mode is activated for Erlenberg, Prokhorovka, Westfield, Karelia, Malinovka, Sand River, and Siegfried Line.
*Encounter: both teams try to capture the single base in the center of the map or to destroy all enemy vehicles to win. The mode is activated for El Halluf, Murovanka, Steppes, Ensk, Himmelsdorf, Ruinberg, Malinovka, Sand River, and Siegfried Line.
- Added the option of sending chat messages to your platoon.
- Added forward/rewind to combat replay playbacks.
-Added the option of training skills and perks for combined qualifications of crew (for example, training perks and skills of Radio Operator, when a Commander combines qualifications of a Commander and Radio Operator).
-In order to reduce the amount of issues with "questionable" non-penetration/penetration hits, reworked the system of damaging with HE and armor-piercing shells. In some cases the chance of damage and critical hits from HE shells increases.
-Repair Kits now fix both tracks if they have both been damaged.
-Added notes about relevant discounts in the game client.
-Added the option of switching on the "server" reticle marker to the game settings.
Full list of chages can be found here: http://worldoftanks.eu/news/2676-second-public-test-version-74/
Hey, I enjoy those maps being removed from the pool. I just want Campovkia removed. That's all I want.
And the new game modes appearing randomly... I dunno. I don't like surprises like that, if I want to play attack and defend, I should have the option to do it when I want.
S-51 with 203mm top gun is world of fun. You can one shot Tier VI-VII heavy tanks (if you get little lucky) and deal very devastating blows to even Tier X tanks. Only down side is the excruciatingly long reload time (even with 100% crew and rammer). In wiki it actually states that next arty (Object 212) is actually a downgrade from S-51. Because it's larger, slower and less agile. It also has same top gun.
If you think Obj 212 is slow, then you have not played SU-14. :smallbiggrin:
Also, if you are going for S-51/SU-14, my advice? Stock up those free experience to unlock the 203mm gun first. Playing with the 152mm is okay but not spectacular. (The SU-8 have a similar gun but is way more agile.)
What I've seen and heard T-34 is fun to play if you know how to play to it's advantages like speed and fast RoF. Though I've been told that PzIV is somewhat superior at same tier. This is mainly due the fact that it manages to deal more damage (at least in our games).
Mmm, yes. Though that implies that you have chosen the ZiS-4 as your main gun. T-34 is more agile than the equivalent Tier V mediums, but suffers from a somewhat lacklustre armour (though it is sloped, which can lead to some surprising bounce), and below average HP pool. (Expect to be one-shotted by KV derps.) However, if you are somehow able to sneak past a distracted enemy and start unloading rounds, you can wreck merry havoc. Your gun also practically destroys lower tiers.
Hey, I enjoy those maps being removed from the pool. I just want Campovkia removed. That's all I want.
Yeah. That and Province. At least from the higher tier matches. Playing these two with randoms is an exercise in frustration.
Eldariel
2012-06-07, 08:55 PM
Mmm, yes. Though that implies that you have chosen the ZiS-4 as your main gun. T-34 is more agile than the equivalent Tier V mediums, but suffers from a somewhat lacklustre armour (though it is sloped, which can lead to some surprising bounce), and below average HP pool. (Expect to be one-shotted by KV derps.) However, if you are somehow able to sneak past a distracted enemy and start unloading rounds, you can wreck merry havoc. Your gun also practically destroys lower tiers.
My experience having played both PzIV and T-34 a bit now: I'd probably prefer T-34 when I'm top tier. If armor bouncing isn't an issue it'll do great damage regardless of deployment. Any other time though, I'd prefer PzIV simply because its penetration is so awesome for its tier while it doesn't lose that hard in terms of DPM either. Both are very accurate but ZiS-4 isn't really a sniper weapon due to lacking penetration and thus not dealing very consistent damage at range.
PzIV also has frontal armor and frontal turret armor both superior to KV-1; while its shape is worse than T-34's, it still does a decent heavy tank impression when top tier. T-34 is a great medium tank to be sure and if you can get a decent flank you can put the pain on anything but PzIV's penetration simply gives it more versatility and makes it better against higher tier vehicles.
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-07, 09:07 PM
I hate it when I have a workable plan that requires cooperation, clearly outline it, no one listens, and I almost pull it off by myself anyway. :smallsigh: There were four tier 9 mediums including my Patton in a battle I just got out of; actually it isn't over as I type this. The map is Erlenburg, and we have the west start location. I proposed wolfpacking up, crossing the south bridge, and going up the west side of the ridge, since the heavies on the east side start inevitably go along the east side of the ridge and leave the field open since they're exposed on it.
I go and no one follows. Even so, I killed a Tiger who was in the buildings on the center-west of the ridge on the way, and rolled right up to their arty, damaging it before getting hit in the face by an M40/43 HE round. With even one more tank with me we'd have mopped up the lot of them, but no one listens.
Reaver225
2012-06-08, 02:24 AM
What I've seen and heard T-34 is fun to play if you know how to play to it's advantages like speed and fast RoF. Though I've been told that PzIV is somewhat superior at same tier. This is mainly due the fact that it manages to deal more damage (at least in our games).
I bought the T-34!
And... hate it.
Blah. It's a T-28 with paper thin sloped armour and a couple more hit points up a tier.
No, it's a slow unmaneuverable T-50-2 with paper thin armour and better hitpoints, which just means I can dodge less effectively.
Perhaps I just need to pimp it out with loader and stabilizer and get my crew trained and so on. But a medium should have a bit more punch than an equivalent scout tank, I feel.
Well, the good thing is I've unlocked half the modules beforehand and when I get to the T-34-85 I can play it like an oversized scout with the i-D10T cannon. Having a cannon one tier higher than the rest of your tank is always fun.
Next up, then the S-51!
The T-34-85 is not something you want to play like a scout (unless you mean passive scout) - you want to play hull down with it where possible and get the best out of the big gun in good matches or second/3rd line it in lower ranked games
I bought the T-34!
And... hate it.
Blah. It's a T-28 with paper thin sloped armour and a couple more hit points up a tier.
No, it's a slow unmaneuverable T-50-2 with paper thin armour and better hitpoints, which just means I can dodge less effectively.
Perhaps I just need to pimp it out with loader and stabilizer and get my crew trained and so on. But a medium should have a bit more punch than an equivalent scout tank, I feel.
Well, the good thing is I've unlocked half the modules beforehand and when I get to the T-34-85 I can play it like an oversized scout with the i-D10T cannon. Having a cannon one tier higher than the rest of your tank is always fun.
Next up, then the S-51!
If you're playing it like the T-50... uh... no. You're not supposed to do that. Play it like a proper medium like the T-28. Let the heavies soak up the damage/attention and go around to flank the enemy. Your armour and HP is just enough that you won't get one-shotted like the T-50 and would bounce low tier shots, but that's all you need. You're still agile enough that you can circle lone heavies and unload all your shells into his rear. (M4s and PzIVs can't do that.) Or if you're feeling adventurous, play dance-around-his-slow-turret-traverse.
As for T-34-85, yes, it is not a scout and you should never play it as such.
Reaver225
2012-06-08, 05:55 AM
Eh, it probably would be a good medium at close ranges if I can avoid frontal attacks... I just like brawling a lot at point blank ranges where I can get the enemy to miss - and yes, it does seem quite possible to dance round heavies.
I just played a fantastic match where I took out two KV1s and a tiger as well as a few lighter tanks on that map with the large forest on one side (the last KV-1 kill was a thing of beauty, circling it with my damaged fuel tank while it was driving back towards the captured point and trying to traverse to get me in view, only for me to circle right the way in front of it shelling it in the turret and landing the final shell right into its side), and was thinking, "Wow, I misjudged this little tank"
...And then I realised I was using my T-28, not my T-34, since that got two-shotted by a KV-1 earlier. Whoops.
(Mind you the next time I took my T-34 out I managed to make several nice shots and take out the enemy arty, so it's not a terrible tank. I probably just have to try driving it a bit more.)
Play it like a proper medium like the T-28.
But I drive my T-28 like I drive my T-50! And usually with better results!
Jonzac
2012-06-08, 08:14 AM
I just unlocked the T-34-85, which means that I obviously have a few games as a T-34 driver. I put the 57mm gun on it for the accuracy...and more importantly for me...Rate of Fire (RoF). I found much more success (with 75% crew), waiting a few minutes and playing scout guard then pushing a flank and never stoping.
Frankly I can't wait for the higher Tier Russian mediums. I love the games in my T59 where I never stop moving and the Russian mediums lend themselves to that kind of playstyle.
On a side note, does anyone here play the clan wars portion of this game? Its a major portion of the game and I totally ignore it. I just assumed that if I didn't have a Tier 9/10 then you couldn't play.
groz_nez
2012-06-08, 12:42 PM
Managed to capture the thread title pretty perfectly in one picture.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1709/shot165d.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/shot165d.jpg/)
Finally got around buying T-50. Eldariel bought his, so I thought it would be easiest to platoon with him with another T-50. I have to tell this tank is so much fun. The perfect trolling tank. From first game I got ~1600xp, it was also first win of the day (obviously). I just drove around and after a while glued myself to backside of an IS-3. When IS-3 died (by arty and other teammates) I found ISU-152 hiding in a bush. Glued myself to his rear armor. Surprisingly managed to penetrate him quite a few times. In the end T34 came around and killed him. Most fun I've had in a while. :smallsmile:
I just unlocked the T-34-85, which means that I obviously have a few games as a T-34 driver. I put the 57mm gun on it for the accuracy...and more importantly for me...Rate of Fire (RoF). I found much more success (with 75% crew), waiting a few minutes and playing scout guard then pushing a flank and never stoping.
Frankly I can't wait for the higher Tier Russian mediums. I love the games in my T59 where I never stop moving and the Russian mediums lend themselves to that kind of playstyle.
On a side note, does anyone here play the clan wars portion of this game? Its a major portion of the game and I totally ignore it. I just assumed that if I didn't have a Tier 9/10 then you couldn't play.
SEA does not have Clan Wars yet.
:smalltongue:
I also got another Billote today for my M18. Twas' fun, zooming around El Halluf to nick all the enemies.
psilontech
2012-06-08, 09:07 PM
I was briefly involved in the auxiliary portion of a clan populated by those below the max for their lines, so tier 8/9 Heavies, tier 7/8 mediums, and 6+ arty.
We were used for defensive actions when they couldn't scrape together enough of the primary guard to fill up the game and for attacks on territories when there were excess movement tokens made up entirely of ourselves. We even managed to take a territory or two and hold it for long enough to get gold out of it against technically superior forces through use of superior tactics and discipline but were never compensated for our actions. Not seeing the point of being in a clan and participating in clan wars under a leadership who would not reward our actions, a large number of the reserve force, including myself, decided to leave for greener pastures.
Haven't gotten involved in it again, but I probably will once I finally hit tier ten.
Reaver225
2012-06-09, 05:16 AM
Not seeing the point of being in a clan and participating in clan wars under a leadership who would not reward our actions, a large number of the reserve force, including myself, decided to leave for greener pastures.Ah, the life of a mercenary, eh?
EDIT: The S-51 shots cost more than 1000 silver each. That's more than it takes to repair some of the tanks I'm shooting at. And that's just with the 152mm!
The 203mm costs roughly the same, and has the effect of actually damaging enemies enough for you to turn a comfortable profit. :smallbiggrin:
Ah, the life of a mercenary, eh?
EDIT: The S-51 shots cost more than 1000 silver each. That's more than it takes to repair some of the tanks I'm shooting at. And that's just with the 152mm!
If you quake at that cost then stop now ~ High Level combat is expensive.
In a good match i can make a profit in my S-51 but if its been a sparse match with many misses then it can be a credit loss even on a win and if it was a loss then its even worse.
The Fine for TKing should be much more harsh (yes even for unintentional TKs) Getting 619 credits compensation for a T7 Heavy that was TKed by a Ferdinand is not good enough. It should be at least half the average cost of repair if not the whole cost then people would be less inclined to do it or take risky shots that could lead to it
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2012-06-09, 04:57 PM
Yay, finally a game in which I actually felt useful, in a SU-76 (which I still suck at), at Siegfried Line (a map which I still suck at).
I would have been much more useful if I hadn't gone up against that Hetzer. Where on earth do you hit a Hetzer, if it's facing you? The base of the gun, right? I'm not good enough to hit the viewpoint, and hitting anywhere else on their frontal armour doesn't do jack even at near-point-blank range.
Yay, finally a game in which I actually felt useful, in a SU-76 (which I still suck at), at Siegfried Line (a map which I still suck at).
I would have been much more useful if I hadn't gone up against that Hetzer. Where on earth do you hit a Hetzer, if it's facing you? The base of the gun, right? I'm not good enough to hit the viewpoint, and hitting anywhere else on their frontal armour doesn't do jack even at near-point-blank range.
Anywhere that is not their frontal armour? :smalltongue: I kid, the Hetzer's frontal should be easily penetrated by your gun, after all. The more important question is why you're engaging him in point blank range to be with.
Eldariel
2012-06-09, 07:04 PM
EDIT: Pointless Rant:
What's it with bad games coming en masse? Tried to play my wins of the day tonight, lost like 80% of my games where I was invariably bot tier; what are you supposed to do in a Tier 8 game as a Sherman? Why do the enemies deserve to win every time? Brings me back to the days when I nuked my KV-2 win rate to 35%...
Reaver225
2012-06-09, 09:20 PM
If you quake at that cost then stop now ~ High Level combat is expensive.
In a good match i can make a profit in my S-51 but if its been a sparse match with many misses then it can be a credit loss even on a win and if it was a loss then its even worse.Augh. I already dislike taking my T-50-2 out due to the ridiculous 9,000 repair bill... At least I'll be doing damage with my shots more often than not.
I would have been much more useful if I hadn't gone up against that Hetzer. Where on earth do you hit a Hetzer, if it's facing you? The base of the gun, right? I'm not good enough to hit the viewpoint, and hitting anywhere else on their frontal armour doesn't do jack even at near-point-blank range.
Basically hit it where the armour is flat, anywhere. But try not to engage Hetzer frontal armour, it's too curved to go through most of it.
EDIT: Pointless Rant:
What's it with bad games coming en masse? Tried to play my wins of the day tonight, lost like 80% of my games where I was invariably bot tier; what are you supposed to do in a Tier 8 game as a Sherman? Why do the enemies deserve to win every time? Brings me back to the days when I nuked my KV-2 win rate to 35%...
Specials seem to have that effect.
Augh. I already dislike taking my T-50-2 out due to the ridiculous 9,000 repair bill... At least I'll be doing damage with my shots more often than not.
Its why i don't drive my T-54 anymore unless i am in a Platoon as if i am solo I'll rush and do something silly and the T-54 is to costly to do silly things in.
Erloas
2012-06-10, 08:39 AM
So I just got my 3rd Steel Wall. First one was on a D1, surprising but not too bad considering decent armor and a lot of low pen shots in those games, second was AMX40, about the same as the D1.
This last one I wouldn't have expected at all... in my JagdPzIV. Right at 11 hits, with 7% life left, I should have died for sure but the T-34 pulled back at just the wrong time and bought me enough time to hide from their arties to let our arties kill him.
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2012-06-10, 11:28 AM
Anywhere that is not their frontal armour? :smalltongue: I kid, the Hetzer's frontal should be easily penetrated by your gun, after all. The more important question is why you're engaging him in point blank range to be with.
Mmm, My first shot almost killed him, but my second didn't ricocheted, and the SU-76 has next to no armour...
It was inside the city, and the guys on one side of the city had completely failed at not-letting-people-get-past-them, so I had to turn around to face a handful of tanks that were about to break past and get our arty.
3 Snipers in a Row on my Tiger tonight. Care of the Weekend Special i have made over a Million Credits mostly with the Tiger
Reaver225
2012-06-11, 08:40 AM
EDIT: Pointless Rant:
What's it with bad games coming en masse? Tried to play my wins of the day tonight, lost like 80% of my games where I was invariably bot tier; what are you supposed to do in a Tier 8 game as a Sherman? Why do the enemies deserve to win every time? Brings me back to the days when I nuked my KV-2 win rate to 35%...
Perhaps because you play until you get that X2 game win then switch tanks so your winning games only come once out of several matches?
Eldariel
2012-06-11, 08:57 AM
Perhaps because you play until you get that X2 game win then switch tanks so your winning games only come once out of several matches?
If I play more on one of those days on any given tank, I keep losing more than I keep winning I've noticed; at best I've wrested 50% win rates after a losing spree by playing a lot (50% win rates after the first win; still in negatives overall).
psilontech
2012-06-11, 12:45 PM
I had the strangest freaking game of my life last night. I'm loading into a game in my Tiger, a rare tier seven capped match, mostly tier fives with myself and another tiger on the other team the only tier sevens.
It takes a freakishly long time for the map to try and load (Himmelsdorf) before it gave up and crashed on me. Load the game back up, try to join the game again, it does the same thing. Start the game a third time, FINALLY get into the game and I see something I wish I had taken a screenshot of.
My entire team is dead. The entirety of the enemy team is dead sans the enemy Tiger. He has 14 kills and he's just SITTING THERE, STARING AT ME.
He's at 3% health, I'm not much better off and I don't move my turret to let him know I'm finally in the game before typing over all-chat, "Jesus Christ, how horrifying." before quickly turning my turret and blamming him to death.
I felt kind of bad, but... he really, really should have killed me while I was loading the map.:smalltongue:
Erloas
2012-06-11, 01:59 PM
My entire team is dead. The entirety of the enemy team is dead sans the enemy Tiger. He has 14 kills and he's just SITTING THERE, STARING AT ME.
He's at 3% health, I'm not much better off and I don't move my turret to let him know I'm finally in the game before typing over all-chat, "Jesus Christ, how horrifying." before quickly turning my turret and blamming him to death.
I felt kind of bad, but... he really, really should have killed me while I was loading the map.:smalltongue:
How much ammo does a tiger carry? Is it possible he ran out of ammo prior to killing you and knew he couldn't ram you to death without killing himself?
Reaver225
2012-06-11, 02:08 PM
That's absolutely hilarious.
In the meantime, I managed to kill 4 tanks in 6 seconds today, and survive with a total of seven kills. And it was glorious. Admittedly, all light tanks and arty/TDs, but just so much of a rush-!
The church map; a whole wad of enemies at the end of the long road that leads into the central hill area, held up by an M4 and an SU-85. Both sides are being battered heavily, but I sweep round the side road to hit them from behind - shoot the Luchs, killing him, rammed the M2 - glorious explosion. Took a second shot at the B1 there, he keeps aiming forwards - ramming into the BT-7 who had only started to notice me. Boom. Last shot right into the B1, totalling it. Four tanks dead in a spate of heartbeats, and then I managed to squeeze past the empty husks to safety.
Sadly it trapped the M4 and SU-85 who had to push past the dead tanks, and the tank destroyer died while waiting for the M4 to clear a path, but after that I managed to take down a Marder II, a Wespe and a Sturmpanzer II at the enemy base. Helped cap.
Absolutely fantastic match.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_064.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_066.jpg
Deadmeat.GW
2012-06-11, 02:25 PM
Quite likely if he had the short 88, that thing fails to penetrate the weirdest things and on the weirdest spots.
I have run out of ammo before when on my Lowe shooting of all things an IS8 in the back of the turret and engine.
The thing was covered in damage decals but...it stayed at 100% throughout this.
A bunch of people on my team were saying I was a **** shot untill one guy went that something fishy was up with the IS8 since I was hitting it (and penetrating quite often) pretty much with every single shot (and YES I ended up using ALL my ammo, including the HE).
That is 40 shells, 8 minutes of shooting, and 32 out of those 40 shells were registered by the game as hits (18 were penetrating hits...).
I NEVER spend soo much creds on a loss as this.
Just for your info:
Lowe gun
320/320/420 damage
234/294/60 penetration
versus
IS8
201/129/50 armour
When asked the IS8 driver said he was getting some turret damaged crits every soo many seconds or his engine was blown up.
I must have critted everything on his tank except the crew and the ammo rack and I did not cause any fires :(.
I had the strangest freaking game of my life last night. I'm loading into a game in my Tiger, a rare tier seven capped match, mostly tier fives with myself and another tiger on the other team the only tier sevens.
It takes a freakishly long time for the map to try and load (Himmelsdorf) before it gave up and crashed on me. Load the game back up, try to join the game again, it does the same thing. Start the game a third time, FINALLY get into the game and I see something I wish I had taken a screenshot of.
My entire team is dead. The entirety of the enemy team is dead sans the enemy Tiger. He has 14 kills and he's just SITTING THERE, STARING AT ME.
He's at 3% health, I'm not much better off and I don't move my turret to let him know I'm finally in the game before typing over all-chat, "Jesus Christ, how horrifying." before quickly turning my turret and blamming him to death.
I felt kind of bad, but... he really, really should have killed me while I was loading the map.:smalltongue:
A heavily damaged Tiger is likely to have a Damaged ammo rack (maybe a dead loader too) and a rather long reload time.
As to Ammo: Long 88 is 72 shells and Short 88 is 92 Shells
Had a awesome battle on Komorin in my Marder: Sat on South side defense and killed 5 of the 7 tanks that tried to cap then rolled up the side in last few mins and popped 3 Bisons in the back.
Just Completed my 7000th Battle with a Win on Malinkova in my M2 Light (Confederate & 3 kills)
groz_nez
2012-06-12, 08:22 AM
Hmm, WG announced Tier X Medium Tanks and Tank Destroyers. Will be interesting to see how they address balancing of said vehicles.
Full article here:
http://worldoftanks.eu/news/2700-tier-10-medium-tanks-and-tank-destroyers/
Also have to say that German Tier X tank destroyer obviously isn't compensating for anything with 17cm PaK 45 gun. :smallwink:
Other thing to note is that French tanks from AMX 12t upwards are going to be raised a tier upwards when this update comes. There is going to be new ELC AMX light tank to replace AMX 12t as tier 5 tank.
Edit:
Just had my best game with PzIV at least experience wise. It was Tier 8 capped game. It was in Cliff we went to the hill next to big valley on the edge of map with Eldariel. Basically I stayed whole match there and took pot shots to everybody. I managed to kill three tanks (one of them was Löwe), which ties me in kills with Type. More importantly I got Confederate award. Ended up with 3112xp(first win of the day so with x2) and 38k money without premium.
End results:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3260/shot169.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/shot169.jpg/)
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4762/shot168x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/shot168x.jpg/)
psilontech
2012-06-12, 12:33 PM
Congratz. I assume you got the tank mastery: ace badge out of that fight?
groz_nez
2012-06-12, 12:44 PM
Congratz. I assume you got the tank mastery: ace badge out of that fight?
Thank you and I already had Ace Tanker badge so answer is no. :smallbiggrin:
Erloas
2012-06-12, 12:50 PM
I could have sworn the confederate badge required 8 damaging non-kills. I could have sworn I had 7 in a few matches and didn't get the badge.
Eldariel
2012-06-12, 12:52 PM
I could have sworn the confederate badge required 8 damaging non-kills. I could have sworn I had 7 in a few matches and didn't get the badge.
Maybe those tanks survived 'til the end of the match? Leon pointed this out earlier when I was wondering wtf happened.
groz_nez
2012-06-12, 02:47 PM
I could have sworn the confederate badge required 8 damaging non-kills. I could have sworn I had 7 in a few matches and didn't get the badge.
This is the definition of Confederate currrently:
-Hit more enemy vehicles (at least six) than any other player on your team. These enemy vehicles must subsequently be destroyed by another player.
- If two or more players score an equal amount of hits, the achievement is granted to the player who earned more XP in the battle, including additional XP provided to Premium Account users.
- If the amount of XP is equal as well, the achievement is not granted.
So it only requires minimum of six but the catch is that they have to be destroyed otherwise vehicle is not counted.
This conversation actually reminded me about a match, in which receiver of Top Gun award was not so obvious. So I dusted off these screenshots for others to see.
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9751/shot037t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/shot037t.jpg/)
And the epic conclusion:
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7959/shot038v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/shot038v.jpg/)
psilontech
2012-06-12, 09:53 PM
Wargamer technical support is... a bit lacking, as I've found out in the past week or so.
My problem: I had three free tank slots. I sold my T-34/85. It should have gone to four, right? Well, the x3 disappeared, leaving me with only a single extra tank slot. Thinking this was just the game being weird, I 'bought' a tier-1, thinking that the x3 would come back but instead leaving me with no extra tank slots, only the option to purchase more at the very end. I sold the lultraktor and restarted the game, thinking they might come back. They didn't.
So of course, having spent lots of time and a little money to get these slots, I submit a ticket on the WoT website outlining my problem. My response from the wargamer employee came down to 'we consolidated them into one slot, they're still there!', which was obviously a false assumption on the tech's side. I assert that this is not the case, that three of my slots HAVE disappeared as I have filled the one extra slot only to have the ticket closed as having been user error.
This was about a week ago and despite an email, have heard nothing back.
Frustrating, I needed at least one of those three slots...
SanguisAevum
2012-06-13, 04:56 AM
Had the most awesome last 2 mins of a battle for me, ever.
In my elite Bactchat, on mountain pass. We start on the north spawn.
The battle goes moderately OK. Our heavies eventually push through north and are on the way to cap, but the rest of our team in the middle and south takes a savage beating. As I glance at the map in the closing minutes after finishing off the E75 guarding the middle route to their base, I realise our heavies in the north will be engaged again from the top of the hill near the enemy spawn before they can push through and cap, and that our last remaining TD (704) in the south is holding off 3 mediums (2 x t59 and 1 x E50)
I quickly realise I have two choices...
1 - Push through to the enemy base and hit the back of the last enemy defence, supporting our heavies.
2 - Head back, and support the 704... he seems to be doing OK... the meds are (rightly) scared of his gun, he already took chunks out of the E50 and one of the 59s.
I realise that if the enemy meds get smart they can simply rush the 704 and be in our base LONG before our heavies would get to theirs, even with my flanking help.
So I go back.
Racing back over the bridge at 65, Ammo drum reloading, I tell the 704 I am coming. Just as I do... the 3 meds all rush the corner together. The E50 eats a BL10 shell to the face and evaporates... YES!... but the 704 is in trouble now... half health with a 59 either side of him. there is no chance I can get back in time to save him, so I divert to our base.
I take up a hull down position (not that the chat's turret armour will stop anything!) just on the edge of the corner cliff, behind a bush. And wait for the 59's to come round. I resign myself to death, and just hope I can deter them long enough for the heavies to do their thing.
Click - The drum has finished reloading. 6 shells ready to fire.
Seconds later, The first 59 rounds the corner at full speed, he is not jinking, and is on about half health.
I zoom, and take aim ahead of him, guessing where his track will be.
The circle closes, I time the shot.
BOOM! - 5 shells left, Direct hit to the left track.
He spins wildly, ending up 90 degrees side on to me.
BOOM! - 4 shells left. The shot was aimed into the right centre hull, under the turret... just where the ammo rack is. Damaged numbers light up above him.
BOOM! - 3 shells left. Same place. He explodes.
The second 59 rounds the corner. He knows i am there now and is trying to weave as much as he can without loosing too much speed.
BOOM! - 2 shells left, Direct hit to the left track!
Again, he too spins out, ending up in exactly the same position as the first one.
Several of the dead team are watching and exclaim "lol! - gogogo batchat"
BOOM! - 1 shell left, He is on 75% health, I only have one hope . Once again aiming for the centre rack. "Critical hit!" Yes! no explosion though
BOOM Final shell, same place. AMMO RACKED!
1 bat chat, 6 shells, 2 awesome track shots, and two dead Type 59s
The rest of the team eventually finishes the enemy and we win. I sit back, safe in the knowledge that those two 59s would have capped long before our heavies did there thing. I won the game for us.
EPIC!
groz_nez
2012-06-13, 07:51 AM
1 bat chat, 6 shells, 2 awesome track shots, and two dead Type 59s
Epic play and win! :smallsmile:
That is what I'm hoping to achieve someday, when I've finished the painful grind though AMX 38 and AMX 40. Firstly though, I would be very happy to just get my AMX 12t and experience the awesomeness of the gun cylinder (or what ever it is called). Of course the fact that you can relocate very quickly, will be huge boon also.
darksolitaire
2012-06-13, 08:20 AM
That is what I'm hoping to achieve someday, when I've finished the painful grind though AMX 38 and AMX 40.
If you think that AMX38/40 is a painful grind and are going to grind AMX12t and 13 75, you're going to have a bad time. :smallbiggrin:
Then again, 13 90 is well worth it.
SanguisAevum
2012-06-13, 08:25 AM
If you think that AMX38/40 is a painful grind and are going to grind AMX12t and 13 75, you're going to have a bad time. :smallbiggrin:
Then again, 13 90 is well worth it.
I LOVED the line from the 12t onwards.
Sure, in the 12t and 1375, you sometimes get harsh match ups. But on the whole, i found them worth the grind through the lame ducks that came before them.
and yes, i defy you to not have a OMG! moment the first few times you take your 1390 out :)
My 1390 is still sluggish i have not unlocked the top engine but ive had some fun with it - i didn't take it out at all until i had enough free exp to unlock the 90mm.
Eldariel
2012-06-13, 01:03 PM
Ok, so, I just had the dumbest game of my life with Groz_nez. We're duoing with Shermans (mostly to get to E8 and E2) in a Tier 7 game on Mountain Pass.
Here's the split:
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1707/shot078x.jpg
So us M4s & Pz III/IV vs. E8 and Tiger; not in our favor but we have little choice but to give it a go. They push through after our top tier shows themselves; we manage to take out the E8 through focused fire and I can land a shot on the Tiger before I die:
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3256/shot070r.jpg
Groz_nez and the Pz III/IV then proceed to wail on the Tiger as its rear armor is turned on them; after it engages them, Groz_nez begins the circle of death while Pz III/IV lands free shots and our KV-3 joins in from the bridge to land one shot and the Tiger is summarily defeated:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6870/shot071o.jpg
We're obviously feeling pretty good about this, having killed two higher tier tanks with the help of one Pz III/IV and one shot from the KV-3. We push in and Groz_nez engages enemy KV-2 behind the rock but is barely defeated:
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9435/shot073.jpg
A bit before enemy arty has apparently run out of ammo and is scouting, moving towards our base:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1203/shot072y.jpg
Soon enough, it's the only tank left from their team. We have our own Priest in our base and an M5 in the mountain alley.
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8751/shot074l.jpg
M5 keeps going towards the enemy base to cap. Our Priest doesn't move. Priest could ram the SU for the win if he's out of ammo; just need the cap interrupted. M5 could've made it to our base and back many times if he wanted to. Instead, neither does anything for the whole duration of the cap and the ammoless SU-5 finishes cap in our base with Priest next to it and M5 hurrying to the enemy base instead. Sometimes...I just don't understand WoT players.
It's like people intentionally try to lose the game (if you're wondering all the pings, they were a consequence of the M5 apparently not talking English and accelerating towards the enemy base). Groz_nez could've actually won us the game if he didn't engage the KV-2 but at that time he had no idea our team would refuse to stop the SU-5 from capping and the KV-2 presented a legitimate threat to our win combat capability-wise. This is just...ugh. Why do people stubbornly refuse to win?!
psilontech
2012-06-13, 03:45 PM
I'm currently in the AMX 12t and I don't have a problem with it outside of it being classified as a scout and being a bit too sluggish to fill the role.
Find something scary to hang around, preferably in a town so you can flank and pop back into cover easily. When the big scary thing engages something else big and scary, pull around the back side of the enemy and unload your drum into his vulnerable backside. He doesn't dare take his attention away from your big, scary friend and if he does, your ally generally notices the turret isn't facing him anymore and comes around the corner to gain his attention back.
Either empty your drum or fall back into cover when the turret is coming for you - Rinse and repeat.
I have a couple tier sevens and a tier eight, and the odd thing is I've probably killed more Type 59s in my AMX 12t than in any of the others based simply on the fact that they see a light tank instead of something that needs to be immediately dealt with.
Eldariel
2012-06-13, 04:37 PM
I'm currently in the AMX 12t and I don't have a problem with it outside of it being classified as a scout and being a bit too sluggish to fill the role.
Find something scary to hang around, preferably in a town so you can flank and pop back into cover easily. When the big scary thing engages something else big and scary, pull around the back side of the enemy and unload your drum into his vulnerable backside. He doesn't dare take his attention away from your big, scary friend and if he does, your ally generally notices the turret isn't facing him anymore and comes around the corner to gain his attention back.
Either empty your drum or fall back into cover when the turret is coming for you - Rinse and repeat.
I have a couple tier sevens and a tier eight, and the odd thing is I've probably killed more Type 59s in my AMX 12t than in any of the others based simply on the fact that they see a light tank instead of something that needs to be immediately dealt with.
Funny. I treat AMX 12ts as meds, just the same I treat Chaffees. Light tank, schmight tank, those things are not-so-mobile high firepower vehicles and need to be dealt with immediately. T-50-2 too TBH though it's so mobile dealing with it is a royal pain.
SanguisAevum
2012-06-14, 04:25 AM
Funny. I treat AMX 12ts as meds, just the same I treat Chaffees. Light tank, schmight tank, those things are not-so-mobile high firepower vehicles and need to be dealt with immediately. T-50-2 too TBH though it's so mobile dealing with it is a royal pain.
This from me too.
As far as I am concerned... enemy French tanks with autoloaders, are number one priority, and should be so for everyone. The amount of damage they can do in such a short space of time, means they should be taken out as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
groz_nez
2012-06-14, 10:51 AM
Funny. I treat AMX 12ts as meds, just the same I treat Chaffees. Light tank, schmight tank, those things are not-so-mobile high firepower vehicles and need to be dealt with immediately. T-50-2 too TBH though it's so mobile dealing with it is a royal pain.
I have to say I've learned the hard way about the power of autoloader of french tanks especially with my IS. Many times I thought, oh it's just AMX 12t nothing to worry about. Only to become burning carcass little later. Also learned that about heavy AMX tanks. Never reload after firing at them, where they can shoot you.
Has anybody else noticed, that MM seems to hate KV-3. I mean it's like in 70% of the matches me and Eldariel are platooning with our KV-3s. We seem to be paired against enemy tier 8 heavy or TD. Today we were paired against Ferdinand and T34 in one match. Other match we were against T34 and Type 59. It's same story almost every day, unless we get lucky and are top tiers ourselves.
darksolitaire
2012-06-14, 11:24 AM
Perhaps biggest fault of the auto-loader tanks is the bugged aggro-mechanic in WoT. French generate automatically 300% threat compared to their respective counterparts.:smallbiggrin:
Has anybody else noticed, that MM seems to hate KV-3. I mean it's like in 70% of the matches me and Eldariel are platooning with our KV-3s. We seem to be paired against enemy tier 8 heavy or TD. Today we were paired against Ferdinand and T34 in one match. Other match we were against T34 and Type 59. It's same story almost every day, unless we get lucky and are top tiers ourselves.
IIRC, the match makes treats heavy tanks as more valuable then medium and tank destroyers of the same tier, meaning that heavy tanks are often weighed against medium or heavy above their tier. This has led to heavy tanks having globally worse win rates as mediums and td's of the same tiers, while mediums of certain tiers all have above 50% win rate.
Source for the win rates in EU (http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/65256-unofficial-eu-server-statistics/).
Found this in someones signature on the WoT Forums
In MMO terms, the E-75 is a vanilla warrior with shield, the ST-1 uses two handed weapons and full armor, the M103 is that ******* who uses the warrior class for the defensive bonuses and then uses crossbows, the IS-8 is the rogue that suddenly thought "warrior sounds cool, I might try that", and the VK4502B is the starting character with a tower shield. The AMX50-120 is actually a mage and simply wandered into the wrong raid group.
Reaver225
2012-06-14, 03:56 PM
Been having a terrible time with my T-50-2 recently. Gone through 3-4 losing matches in a row despite however well I did. The last one stood out though.
In that big desert map with the river splitting it in two. No artillery, tier 9 match. Tigers, panthers, KV-5s and more, oh my.
A couple of other scouts were bitching about what they were there for, and I kind of agreed. All we could do was hang around then die for the heavies to get an extra shot in, right?
My scout is outfitted for passive scouting (which I'm terrible at, honestly), so I go up to the outcropping, zoom in at the tanks and hope they're not going to see me. Then I see them all pointing my way.
Noooooope is what I type out as I zip away, 5-6 shots crashing down around me. Meanwhile my team is getting shot to pieces, so I go down the other side, and scout those lot out too. Come across an IS inside a building and take some potshots before running off - avoiding the incoming fire like it was a hailstorm.
Feeling kind of rubbish, said to everyone "I've scouted them all... can I go home now?"
A Tiger P replied "you've got to kill us not scout us"
And lo and behold, there was a KV-5 on 6% health trying to make it into our base. And just like that and a bit of circling and pinging a lot I manage to take it down without damage. "Ok, who else do I have to kill to go home?"
It got a good laugh out of everyone. The tiger that said that eventually killed me but not after I took out a bit of his health too - mainly because the other T-50-2 damaged my tracks when I rammed him to death. But it was pretty good fun, and a profitable round.
And just managing to kill a (very badly damaged) KV-5 with a T-50-2 was totally worth it.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_071.jpg
Tiger P was at about 50 when I engaged it.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n56/Reaver225/shot_072.jpg
Deadmeat.GW
2012-06-16, 01:51 AM
I have been having a terrible time in my Lowe, so much so I posted on the WoT forums.
drive currently a Lowe with a set of equipment and skills sets on the crew that I consider to be pretty ok however I am really starting to get annoyed at disappearing or invisible tanks up to distances that I find more then disturbing.
Is there a reason that I cannot spot enemies at quite often extremely close ranges, sometimes as close as 80 meters while standing still, when I have 402 meters view range standard, coated optics installed and both Recon and Situational Awareness skills at 79%?
I am not talking TD with camou netting or such but sometimes actually quite sizeable vehicles like an IS3 or last game an VK4502 B (and those are not exactly known for stealth unlike the IS3...).
Now I understand that my Lowe is easier to spot then pretty much anything out there but...if I am sitting still and they are moving why would I not not be able to spot a tank but I can SPOT the trees being driven over by that tank?
With 100% crew skill, coated optics, Recon 79% and Situational Awareness 79% I would expect to be able to spot things further out except sofar this seems not to be the case.
On none of the longer range maps does it seem to make any difference and on the maps with tree or bushes a single bush partially obscuring an IS3 is sufficient for it to remain invisible to me unless it gets quite close.
On Prohkorovka in my last game a VK4502 B on the left hand side (map is set up with the buildings on opposing side, top left) , driving through the tree line closer to the center of the map is effectively invisible untill it fires to me while I am sitting in a series of bushes just off the road, closer to the base cap.
Any movement from my Lowe reveals me to anyone up to 200 meters away (enemy passed center of the map) while I still cannot see anything untill the enemy fires.
Regardless of any movement on their part.
That VK4502 B has the same spotting range on his turret as my Lowe, even with coated optics and the skills I should not be having a lower spotting distance then them.
Yet it seems I do.
When I watch other Lowe in action I have noticed that quite often the Lowe tanks will loose sight of enemies sitting in the middle of a cap in the open when the Lowe is just about 200 meters away.
And when firing (which means they can still see the Lowe which is a bit more understandable given the size of a Lowe) they reappear again.
Perhaps there is an issue with the Lowe where the optics and spotting mechanism is not working as written but if so I would like to know before hand what I am getting myself into.
Saying that my Lowe has 402 spotting distance, plus 10% for coated optics (up to a maximum of 500 meters), plus a un-disclosed increase for both Recon and Situational Awareness but where in practice I can not reliably spot something over 200 meters without someone spotting it for me is a bit unfair.
I am not happy...
Eldariel
2012-06-16, 03:33 PM
What precisely am I missing in the M4 Sherman? Inaccurate gun with mediocre penetration and mediocre DPM, sluggish movement, poor armor... I don't see a single reason to play this tank over any of PzIV, T-34, KV-1 or AMX12t (well, except for AMX12t's matchmaking; it's still nominally a tier 5 tank tho) other than opening up the E8 and the Tier 7+ awesome.
It seems to me like all the American tanks under Tier 7 with the exception of M2 MT, E8 & Chaffee are just bad for their tier (talking about actual tanks only; don't have experience with the TDs but they've put up some rather convincing displays in games I've played). E2, Sherman, M3 Lee, T1 Heavy, M6, M7, ugh...
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-17, 02:12 AM
If you think the M7 a bad tank, you have likely fallen into the common trap of thinking the biggest gun = the best gun. It doesn't. If you drive the M7 and aren't using the six-pounder, you're doing it wrong. It's not a medium; it's a cleverly disguised light tank and you should drive like it. :smallwink:
I've never played the M4 Sherman or the E2 simply because I couldn't stand the Lee for one match longer than it took to unlock the T1 Heavy, but the T1 and M6 have a similar issue; they're actually particularly large medium tanks and should be driven like it. My personal kill record is actually in the M6. No, they don't play like the German and Soviet tier equivalents, but that dictates a different play style, not an automatic rejection of the tanks as bad.
darksolitaire
2012-06-17, 02:36 AM
Sherman series has best gun depression in the game, -12 degrees, while other American tanks have -10 degrees tops. You can play them either as medicore mediums or good hill fighters. Shermans have really good dpms', as do M7 and M3. Shermans with 105 howitzer can flank Pz IVs and one shot them. T34s are harder as they are faster, but if you manage, you can destroy them as well.
I haven't played T1H recently, but a friend of mine has 62% winrate with it. It's probably much better now when it doesn't get rolf stomped by KV's.
M6 is statistically the worst tier 6 heavy, and I can't say I did well with it or liked it, but it does have one advantage; it's 960hp engine. It can climb hills, accelerates well and has decent top speed. In this manner it reminds me of VK45A, which occupies similar "medium-heavy tank"-spot in tier 8.
E2 is a monster, I have similar stats with it as I have for Lorraine. :smallbiggrin: It's the hull down tank in low tiers, not only it has good armor and gun depression, it's frontal armor can be exposed to a degree because it's sloped (and can achieve increased artificial slope when it is in hulldown behind a hill), and turret is also small target for tanks who can penetrate it.
Edit:
I've never played the M4 Sherman or the E2 simply because I couldn't stand the Lee for one match longer than it took to unlock the T1 Heavy, but the T1 and M6 have a similar issue; they're actually particularly large medium tanks and should be driven like it. My personal kill record is actually in the M6.
My personal kill record is actually in Lee :smallbiggrin:
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg12/scaled.php?server=12&filename=shot079y.jpg&res=landing
Reaver225
2012-06-17, 05:23 AM
I just exchanged Clutch Braking on my T-50 and AMX-13-75 to Off Road Driving with drop perks/skills.
It's an amazing difference at about 75% each. I've lost a good chunk of experience (about 2% each) but the sheer extra manuverability off road driving gives not just on turning but acceleration too is so much better than clutch braking.
Eldariel
2012-06-17, 08:52 PM
If you think the M7 a bad tank, you have likely fallen into the common trap of thinking the biggest gun = the best gun. It doesn't. If you drive the M7 and aren't using the six-pounder, you're doing it wrong. It's not a medium; it's a cleverly disguised light tank and you should drive like it. :smallwink:
But how much does it really offer over T-34? To me it seems like a T-34 with worse accuracy, DPM & penetration. T-34 shoots better on the move, and does more damage more reliably in the same timeframe. Depression doesn't really seem like a huge deal for flanking tanks...?
I've never played the M4 Sherman or the E2 simply because I couldn't stand the Lee for one match longer than it took to unlock the T1 Heavy, but the T1 and M6 have a similar issue; they're actually particularly large medium tanks and should be driven like it. My personal kill record is actually in the M6. No, they don't play like the German and Soviet tier equivalents, but that dictates a different play style, not an automatic rejection of the tanks as bad.
Well yeah, the thing is I don't really understand how to utilize their supposed strengths. Like, I understand that gun depression is great for hulldowning since there are tons of places in maps where good gun depression allows you to maintain hulldown while you otherwise couldn't; but where's the utility if you don't have good turret armor?
'cause yeah, I see the point of making yourself a smaller target and that's all fine but in the end, enemies will hit you if you're visible and if you don't have the armor to bounce those shots off it just seems like that's not nearly as valuable as 0.7 accuracy or 20 penetration or whatever numbers you give up compared to the comparable tanks of the other countries.
Sherman series has best gun depression in the game, -12 degrees, while other American tanks have -10 degrees tops. You can play them either as medicore mediums or good hill fighters. Shermans have really good dpms', as do M7 and M3. Shermans with 105 howitzer can flank Pz IVs and one shot them. T34s are harder as they are faster, but if you manage, you can destroy them as well.
Would you actually suggest equipping the Howitzer over the M1A1? 'cause most of my problems with Sherman derive from the fact that M1A1 feels like a good-for-nothing no-penetration average-DPM (like, loses handily to ZiS-4 for instance) no-accuracy (uuugh, med with over 0.4 accuracy?) meh-penetration (10 worse than PzIV's) gun.
So basically, take the Howitzer, find a hill, climb it, kill anything fast occupying it and start derping things? Suppose that could work.
I haven't played T1H recently, but a friend of mine has 62% winrate with it. It's probably much better now when it doesn't get rolf stomped by KV's.
M6 is statistically the worst tier 6 heavy, and I can't say I did well with it or liked it, but it does have one advantage; it's 960hp engine. It can climb hills, accelerates well and has decent top speed. In this manner it reminds me of VK45A, which occupies similar "medium-heavy tank"-spot in tier 8.
E2 is a monster, I have similar stats with it as I have for Lorraine. :smallbiggrin: It's the hull down tank in low tiers, not only it has good armor and gun depression, it's frontal armor can be exposed to a degree because it's sloped (and can achieve increased artificial slope when it is in hulldown behind a hill), and turret is also small target for tanks who can penetrate it.
Hm, alright. My biggest problem with E2 as a hulldown tank is that its penetration seems really low for anything but flanking. Measly 128mm on tier 6 doesn't seem like it'll penetrate much stuff reliably from the front. And yet, if you hulldown you're not usually flanking. But if you say it works, well, gotta give it a go.
Brother Oni
2012-06-18, 05:06 AM
A question - does hulldown in the game have the same meaning as hulldown in actual armoured warfare?
In other news, after watching me play the game for a couple weeks, my wife has also started playing. She was a bit dubious at the play style at first, but her little cheers whenever she hits someone (not to mention the few times she gets a kill) may indicate she's hooked. :smallbiggrin:
This leads me on to a question on platooning though - how does the match making work with it? I platooned with her tier 2 tank with my lowest tier tank (a tier 3 B-7) and we got thrown into a tier 7 capped game, with multiple heavies on both sides.
Needless to say, she got massacred and wasn't very impressed, so for the sake of my continued health and well being of my marriage, when would be a good point for her to start platooning? When she has an equal tier tank?
Jimorian
2012-06-18, 05:39 AM
Yes, hull-down in game means the same as in real tank warfare.
And with platooning, the matchmaker will base its decision based only on the highest classified tank (which has some exceptions to strict tiering). So since a BT-7 is eligible for tier-7 capped matches, that's what happened in that case.
So if you're at the same tier, you should generally be good unless you are driving one of the exception tanks. The most common being SPGs, which can go up a tier or 2 more than usual. So she'd really be unhappy if you platooned your M37 with her, and she found herself up against Lowes, KV-5s, and Type-59s. :smalltongue:
darksolitaire
2012-06-18, 05:43 AM
Well yeah, the thing is I don't really understand how to utilize their supposed strengths. Like, I understand that gun depression is great for hulldowning since there are tons of places in maps where good gun depression allows you to maintain hulldown while you otherwise couldn't; but where's the utility if you don't have good turret armor?
'cause yeah, I see the point of making yourself a smaller target and that's all fine but in the end, enemies will hit you if you're visible and if you don't have the armor to bounce those shots off it just seems like that's not nearly as valuable as 0.7 accuracy or 20 penetration or whatever numbers you give up compared to the comparable tanks of the other countries.
Have you driven tanks with really bad gun elevation/depression, like the french with oscillating turret? It's possible that when you're fighting them on hilly terrain they cannot fire back at all.
When hull downing with allies nearby, I find it best to use 3rd person to see when your enemies aren't looking at your exact direction, move up, switch to 1st person to fire a shot, and then pull back when they start aiming. When alone, I try to make my enemy to waste shot by moving quickly up and then pulling back.
Hm, alright. My biggest problem with E2 as a hulldown tank is that its penetration seems really low for anything but flanking. Measly 128mm on tier 6 doesn't seem like it'll penetrate much stuff reliably from the front. And yet, if you hulldown you're not usually flanking. But if you say it works, well, gotta give it a go.
Commander cupolas are the first thing hull downed tanks see from the enemy, and they are usually weakly armored.:smallbiggrin:
Needless to say, she got massacred and wasn't very impressed, so for the sake of my continued health and well being of my marriage, when would be a good point for her to start platooning? When she has an equal tier tank?
You should play with tanks of the same tier, as match making (http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/images/7/77/MatchmakingChart.png) in platoon uses the highest tank. Arty+Scout platoons are nice too, as arties have higher match making.
On your first question, if hull down in armored warfare means that most of the tank is hidden behind a hill or other cover and turret is exposed so that the tank can still fire, then yes.:smalltongue:
Edit: scoute'd!
Brother Oni
2012-06-18, 06:11 AM
So she'd really be unhappy if you platooned your M37 with her, and she found herself up against Lowes, KV-5s, and Type-59s. :smalltongue:
Given my best tank is a SU-85B, those tanks would make me rather unhappy too. :smalltongue:
Thanks to both of you for the matchmaking information. Now all I have to do is convince her that platooning with me isn't instant death at the hands of large calibre cannnons...
Eldariel
2012-06-18, 06:32 AM
Given my best tank is a SU-85B, those tanks would make me rather unhappy too. :smalltongue:
Thanks to both of you for the matchmaking information. Now all I have to do is convince her that platooning with me isn't instant death at the hands of large calibre cannnons...
Try showing her the matchmaking mechanics and picking accordingly :smalltongue: Oh, and don't be afraid to keep few low tier tanks around. I still occasionally play my MS-1 for instance, and it's good for duoing with friends who don't own anything higher than tier 1-2.
A question - does hulldown in the game have the same meaning as hulldown in actual armoured warfare?
In other news, after watching me play the game for a couple weeks, my wife has also started playing. She was a bit dubious at the play style at first, but her little cheers whenever she hits someone (not to mention the few times she gets a kill) may indicate she's hooked. :smallbiggrin:
This leads me on to a question on platooning though - how does the match making work with it? I platooned with her tier 2 tank with my lowest tier tank (a tier 3 B-7) and we got thrown into a tier 7 capped game, with multiple heavies on both sides.
Needless to say, she got massacred and wasn't very impressed, so for the sake of my continued health and well being of my marriage, when would be a good point for her to start platooning? When she has an equal tier tank?
Try a Marder II they never see more than T5 unless dragged up and are monstrous in pairs or if you are gold happy then something MM fixed like a T14 or Churchill (1/2 price atm)
Brother Oni
2012-06-18, 06:56 AM
Try showing her the matchmaking mechanics and picking accordingly :smalltongue: Oh, and don't be afraid to keep few low tier tanks around. I still occasionally play my MS-1 for instance, and it's good for duoing with friends who don't own anything higher than tier 1-2.
It's amazing how quickly you start needing additional garage slots, isn't it? :smalltongue:
I'll attempt using the reasoned argument with visual aids approach in trying to convince her. If you don't hear from me for a couple days, it's because things have gone wrong and I'm still in hiding...
Deadmeat.GW
2012-06-18, 08:27 PM
Last few days have been amazingly poor.
50 games, 38 losses and 12 wins.
Average xp 450...
Average kills per game...2
This is with half tier 8 and half tier 5 tanks being used :(.
I just keep getting into games where I seem to be fighting alone with one guy against 5 or 6 people, getting slaughtered and then the rest of my team dies to 3 guys...
EDIT:
And again, 15 4 loss, me and one guy kill 4...(only one by me but I reduced 2 of the other guys kills to sub 50%) and rest of team...ZERO.
Eldariel
2012-06-18, 08:41 PM
It's amazing how quickly you start needing additional garage slots, isn't it? :smalltongue:
Aye, one of those things that really annoys me in the game (well, aside from premium tanks, premium ammo, premium consumables, matchmaking bullcrap, half of the maps and...ok, yeah, there's a lot of things that annoy me in this game) is how you need like a billion garage slots to actually play with friends of various tiers, and you start with 5 and even with all the free ones you get you have to buy a billion more.
Last few days have been amazingly poor.
50 games, 38 losses and 12 wins.
Average xp 450...
Average kills per game...2
This is with half tier 8 and half tier 5 tanks being used :(.
I just keep getting into games where I seem to be fighting alone with one guy against 5 or 6 people, getting slaughtered and then the rest of my team dies to 3 guys...
EDIT:
And again, 15 4 loss, me and one guy kill 4...(only one by me but I reduced 2 of the other guys kills to sub 50%) and rest of team...ZERO.
Sigh... I had one of those streaks. That's when I nuked my KV-2 into 35% and Hummel, T-34-85, T-150 and KV-3 under 50%. It lasted for about a week. I just dunno; sometimes it seems like the matchmaking decides it's time for you to enter Planet Hell.
psilontech
2012-06-19, 12:24 PM
The protection that being a light offers remains astounding, a lot of people still not figuring out they can be a threat and assuming they're just going to try and zoom past to get to arty.
Large engagement of heavies, they're focused entirely on each other. Enemy sees a light icon pop up on their minimap and just straight up assume that I'm going to try and sneak past to get to their artillery. "I'm not taking my sights off of that terrifying Tiger II in front of me, I'll just hope the TDs can take care of it on its approach and it doesn't get arty!"
SURPRISE, I'M AN AMX 17-75, FRESH OUT OF THE BOX MR. LOWE!!! BLAM-BLAM-BLAM, BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-DEAD!
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Escape, reload, shoot some other poor sucker in the arse.
I hope they never collectively figure it out and instinctively learn to fear lights as arty does.
Erloas
2012-06-19, 12:55 PM
Eh, its sort of a screwed either way situation. Yes, the light can cause some damage, especially when it gets behind, but the heavy in front is going to cause a lot too. At least you're almost guaranteed to hit the heavy. You could spend what is left of your life trying to track a light down and never manage to hit it, especially if its going to require 2-3 hits. And generally to track a light with a heavy you have to move your hull and turret together, and exposing your side or rear to the heavy you were engaged with is going to kill you faster then the light is going to.
Personally though I haven't seen that happen though. I see a lot of people aiming for me first in a light (or the less powerful mediums) instead of aiming for the heavies.
Light = Easy kill to many people and thus its targeted (i have done it on occasion). also if its dead or disabled here then its not off bothering the Arty or TDs
I recall a early game on my KV-4 where there was a M5 zooming about and i was ignoring it as the T34 was more of a pressing matter up until i backed around the corner and got a kill... the M5 apparently was behind me and on low health.
Brother Oni
2012-06-19, 01:43 PM
My experience driving lights have been closer to Erloas' and Leon's - too many people want that kill counter next to their name, so they target you over the bigger threats. :smallsigh:
Eldariel
2012-06-19, 08:48 PM
Does anybody know any spreadsheet or program or something that calculates your actual tank stats post-normalization patch? Only ones I've found predate that and while I can do the math by hand, that's pretty damn slow for every crew level, equipment combination and tank.
darksolitaire
2012-06-20, 02:42 AM
My experience driving lights have been closer to Erloas' and Leon's - too many people want that kill counter next to their name, so they target you over the bigger threats. :smallsigh:
Killing lights is sound tactic as they are squishy, and when they get trough friendly lines they can kill arty and even td's with ease. Also in higher tier games, side losing their arties to scouting in the first minute is pretty much defeated.
Reaver225
2012-06-20, 05:36 AM
Personally though I haven't seen that happen though. I see a lot of people aiming for me first in a light (or the less powerful mediums) instead of aiming for the heavies.
My experience driving lights have been closer to Erloas' and Leon's - too many people want that kill counter next to their name, so they target you over the bigger threats. :smallsigh:
To run a tank-killer light, you need two things:
1: only one enemy (preferably a heavy)
2: Either: A big friend (optional), or,
3: room to maneuver.
If you've got two enemies, at least one will shoot at you. If you stop you will get tracked and die. This is perfectly reasonable behaviour.
If you've not got room to manuever and you're on your own, you'll not be able to evade the turret traverse forever. If you've got either room to circle OR a friend, then you can chip away or your friend can blast them.
That's the only "safe" way of killing enemy heavies/mediums as a light. Going up against even a couple of tanks is suicide.
To FIND individual tanks: Either scout ahead and fall back if there's more than one, or wait until the enemy are engaged then go through their lines and pick off targets of opportunity, or wait until one of the engagements has worn down the other side to two or three tanks then go in from the side.
And make sure you're moving at top speeds when you finally get into view so they don't hit you while trundling down towards them.
darksolitaire
2012-06-20, 01:00 PM
7.4, the patch no-one admits he likes, goes live tomorrow on EU server. Some main features include:
-French Arty, which does pathetic damage and yet manages to pack ungodly amount of OP in the eyes of average tanker.
-French TD's which have rather good penetration values and stock guns. I'll be playing those, thank you.:smallbiggrin:
-Two new premiums, which seem to be well balanced. Jagdtiger will probably appear unbeatable to those who don't know weak spots, as it has 250 superstructure armor.
-HE shells that can knock out several crew members and modules, in my opinion, making arty all the more hated.
-Two new play modes, which will appear randomly. Make that T95 attacker in Assault/Defence, yes sir! If they would be selectable instead of appearing randomly, people would pick the best game mode for their current tank, and we would see 10 top tier TDs as defenders. That's just as bad.
-Nerfs and buffs, former to american heavies, which in my opinion deserved them, and latter to the KV-4, which most likely remains as terrible.
Eldariel
2012-06-20, 01:06 PM
At least they're fixing damage models on a bunch of painful tanks (T-28's tracks :smallfurious:) and removing Komarin & Swamp (aka. Bull**** and Bull****ter; topright base in Swamp is way too easy to defend and Komarin pretty much requires competent scout players to be remotely enjoyable due to the wide open areas).
Jimorian
2012-06-21, 09:00 PM
So far, I'm liking the new battle modes, at least you get some variety. But man, the Assault version of Prokhorovka is BRUTAL. Attacking over the railway when the defending team already has the advantage of high ground with the hill? :smalleek:
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-21, 09:45 PM
So far, I'm liking the new battle modes, at least you get some variety. But man, the Assault version of Prokhorovka is BRUTAL. Attacking over the railway when the defending team already has the advantage of high ground with the hill? :smalleek:
Yeah. It plain old doesn't work in pubs; too much of your team will just feed itself to the defenders. That kind of assault needs tight discipline and competent artillery support or it will not work, period.
Erloas
2012-06-21, 09:46 PM
It must have been last thread because a quick check didn't find it... but someone mentioned a mod that I got and was using but can't remember the name of it now and I've got to re-find it when they get it updated for this latest patch.
It had the server side reticule, a damage log, and the tank lists were clearly differentiated between vehicle classes.
edit: Also I know they changed a little bit with the no-damage pens, is there something that is a bit more clear on what they changed?
And are engine fires more common because of it? I've seen a lot more on both sides since the patch.
I'm kind of depressed the SEA server remains stuck in the ancient patch of 7.2. Jesus, when will the admins here move their arse and update us to match the other servers?
Brother Oni
2012-06-22, 02:21 AM
So far, I'm liking the new battle modes, at least you get some variety. But man, the Assault version of Prokhorovka is BRUTAL. Attacking over the railway when the defending team already has the advantage of high ground with the hill? :smalleek:
The Assault version of Malinovka rates up there too in my opinion. At least you get tree cover to half way up the hill and a big building to hide behind on the western flank, but trying to get across that last bit of open ground uphill, is just plain nasty.
darksolitaire
2012-06-22, 04:49 AM
The Assault version of Malinovka rates up there too in my opinion. At least you get tree cover to half way up the hill and a big building to hide behind on the western flank, but trying to get across that last bit of open ground uphill, is just plain nasty.
Both are true. However, it seems that because people don't know how to play, the team attacking on the assault seems to win if the map sides are balanced :smallyuk: Yesterday I saw a Maus attacking in Erlenberg when it was supposed to be defending :smallsigh:
The best Defense is a good Offense
Reaver225
2012-06-22, 08:53 AM
Actually, the best defense is a dead opponent.
Dead opponents very rarely kill you; the ones who kill you are often alive at the time of your death.
Not to say it doesn't happen. I've been on more than one end of a double-arty KO due to slow travelling shells.
Erloas
2012-06-22, 09:19 AM
Yeah, I find it almost ironic that when it comes to attack/defend mission the defending players camp with as little travel as necessary in most places. However on a normal battle where you have an enemy base to defend as well people mostly push forward. Seeing as how probably 80%-90% of matches I'm in end in all tanks destroyed, and the majority of the base captures are when its only 1-2 players left per side and they cap rather then hunt the other person down.
And it seems odd that people actually play them that much differently because they really aren't. And its because of that that every attack/defend mission I've been in so far has been very one sided.
I've only got to play each of the new maps once so far, and the airfield I took one shot early on and didn't get to see any of it. It is surprising though how much different some of the older maps feel when all that has changed is that the teams have been rotated 90 degrees.
I had a few great games last night. One with my M41 where I got 5 kills and came close to winning it myself. Including taking out a M40 at point blank range when he just failed to kill me in the first shot. Then I somehow missed a PzIV right in front of me after he missed his first shot, but he was only at 31 HP left from having hit him earlier in the match. It was odd, my M41 had a bunch of good games last night but took forever to get my first win. I took out several heavies in one game with one-shot kills and they were both at full (850ish HP), but I missed Top Gun several times by a fraction of a second, ended up with 5 kills but there were 2-3 kills that I missed because the enemy died while my shell was in the air as well as coming very close but failing to kill one of the new french SPGs.
And in my KV-1 on a defend mission on one of the deserts (never remember the names) where I ended up surviving 19 shots when I wasn't even a top-tier tank. Including a Pz38a that was circling me for a while and couldn't even kill me from behind, as well as some T6 VKs, they got me almost dead but never managed to finish me off and they slowly got picked off by the rest of the team. I'm sure they were pissed, there is no way I should have survived that.
Speaking of the new french lines, all of the ones I've seen so far are tiny. The TDs can hide under the sides of larger tanks, my reticule wasn't even close to guaranteeing a hit against the SPGs. They are all just tiny and hard to hit.
I finally got the needlegun with the Panther earlier today, and it's certainly a huge improvement over the 88/56 that I had to suffer through for god knows how long. Actually being able to hit stuff at a distance and penetrating it as opposed to missing half the time and bouncing the other half makes for one huge difference.
The following screenshots are from Malinovka: Assault, which was a huge pain to slug through. If it werent for the fact that my opponents were terrible shots/had underpowered guns, and that I had the backup of one totally awesome Grille, I probably would have lost very quickly.
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l451/Raltis/shot_005.jpg
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l451/Raltis/shot_007.jpg
Still, I got my master tanker badge for the Panther, so I can't complain too much about the outcome... especially since Operation Bagration is making the tank profitable to play for once.
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-22, 03:06 PM
It is surprising though how much different some of the older maps feel when all that has changed is that the teams have been rotated 90 degrees.
Campinovka isn't any different, at least in Encounter. Both teams ended up right across from each other on the field camping; they just had to drive further to get to the camping spots. :smalltongue:
groz_nez
2012-06-26, 12:56 AM
It must have been last thread because a quick check didn't find it... but someone mentioned a mod that I got and was using but can't remember the name of it now and I've got to re-find it when they get it updated for this latest patch.
It had the server side reticule, a damage log, and the tank lists were clearly differentiated between vehicle classes.
The server side reticule can be enable from game settings as of 7.4. The option to do this is a check box on the first page of the settings. This option is very nice, since hitting get easier as you know more accurate size of your aiming circle.
It seems like MM has gotten even crazier than before. Yesterday had at least two matches were MM pulled stunts like two tier 9 tanks on both sides, when majority of tanks were tier 5 & 6 :smalleek:. There also were no tier 8 tanks in the game.
Here is screenshot of the tier spread:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2450/shot173l.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/shot173l.jpg/)
Here is another one in which KV-5s were supposed to have fun time slaughtering Tier 5 & 6 tanks:
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8180/shot172t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/shot172t.jpg/)
Erloas
2012-06-26, 08:55 AM
Eh, I've had more matches that were better for me at least. Seeing more T6 capped games, which is nice since I'm running a few T6s, where as before they almost always ended up in T7-9 games.
But both of those games, while slightly unusual, aren't out of line, as those are all common tiers to have grouped together. All the T4s are scouts or arties (or platooned). My guess would be fairly small queues, and the T8/T9s were probably the longest in the queue so the match was built off them and there just weren't more higher tier people to choose from. The queue doesn't generally get over about 100 and a match takes 30 people, so about 1/3. Then about 1/3 of the queue at any given time is T1-2. So really the match maker doesn't have a lot to build from. The only real way to fix that is to have the MM build lists more slowly, letting the queue sit closer to 200 or so, and having more time waiting for matches.
I've been having more good games lately where I'm making more of a difference. Not sure how much of it is me getting better and how much of it is just being in primarily T6 tanks. I'm down to only 3-5 losses over wins, which is good considering it was closer to 30-35 a few weeks ago. I think I'm sitting at about 2500 total matches so far.
The mod I got... not sure if it was actually the one I was looking for but it had most of what I had before, was the AIOMOD.
psilontech
2012-06-26, 02:07 PM
I've already said this, but I must reiterate: I love my T-50. Always play it after a match where arty does terrible things to me as a kind of revenge.
Was in an arty heavy, high-tier match last night. I allowed the battle lines to develop and couldn't find a way in before a KV-4 decided to make an opening of sorts for me. He thundered into a line of heavies to draw their attention so I could slip past them and get into their base. Guy survived too, pulling back with about 40% health.
So I slip in through the chaos of everyone shooting at the scary tier eight to find all four or five enemy arty sitting there all nice and pretty while a VK3601(H) vainly tries to chase me. Killed three arty myself while allied spgs rained fire on the other two. Started to make my escape back to friendly lines when a lucky Tier-7 American TD finished me off.
Dead enemy arty raged a bit and I was momentarily satisfied in my arty-lust.
Got 1.5k experience (Non-x2) and the ace tanker badge. Can't wait for the T-50-2, despite the fact that I hear I will be losing money every match.
Huzzah! My server is finally being updated straight to version 7.4. See you guys after I tried out the new HE buff. :smallbiggrin:
I have to say that i like Encounter battles a lot more than Assault.
psilontech
2012-06-29, 12:24 PM
I would have to agree. Assault maps are generally painful, especially if you're on the attack.
Encounter can be fun though. I was in a game primarily populated by tier nines while derping around in my KV-2 on <The Map with the valley in the middle, Standard the only advancement us usually in the far North-West> when it turned Encounter. Only Tier-6 tanks were me and another KV-2 with a T-50-2 one below us. We decide that we're going to box the T-50-2 in with our massive bulk along the hiding rock inside the cap zone and wait for our inevitable death while keeping the scout physically, nearly unshootable.
Of course, we died pretty early on but I stuck around to watch the results of my handywork with the enemy team getting frustrated that they couldn't move up and take out the scout, not having enough time to push our wrecks out of the way before dying to the entire rest of our team sniping from the ridges to both the South and North.
-- Am I wrong, or does capping speed in Encounter max out at one or two people? The speed at which the counter went up didn't seem to be affected much, if at all, when my KV-2 brother and I bit the dust.
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-29, 12:32 PM
Capping speed has always been capped at three tanks. Don't know if the cap got lower for Encounter.
I recall something on the WoT forums that discussed it as being fixed at the lowest value for encounter battles.
I would have to agree. Assault maps are generally painful, especially if you're on the attack.
Encounter can be fun though. I was in a game primarily populated by tier nines while derping around in my KV-2 on <The Map with the valley in the middle, Standard the only advancement us usually in the far North-West> when it turned Encounter. Only Tier-6 tanks were me and another KV-2 with a T-50-2 one below us. We decide that we're going to box the T-50-2 in with our massive bulk along the hiding rock inside the cap zone and wait for our inevitable death while keeping the scout physically, nearly unshootable.
Of course, we died pretty early on but I stuck around to watch the results of my handywork with the enemy team getting frustrated that they couldn't move up and take out the scout, not having enough time to push our wrecks out of the way before dying to the entire rest of our team sniping from the ridges to both the South and North.
-- Am I wrong, or does capping speed in Encounter max out at one or two people? The speed at which the counter went up didn't seem to be affected much, if at all, when my KV-2 brother and I bit the dust.
Having played a few match of encounter, I can attest to this. I'm not sure why they did so though, it seems to reward killing all tanks more than capping the point.
Eldariel
2012-06-29, 01:21 PM
As it stands, Malinovka and Prokhorovka are almost unwinnable for attackers. Karelia seems quite fair actually, since attackers can use the hill to gain position. Those are the only Assaults I have significant experience in. I really wish attackers would have some material advantage (extra SPG, comparatively more heavies, something) on the hard assault maps to make it work.
Then again, I also wish I wouldn't have to play Himmelsdorf/Ensk/Ruinsberg with non-TD type artillery, so meh...
darksolitaire
2012-06-29, 03:12 PM
Few days ago I tough Attackers in Prokhorovka were doomed to die. Now it seems defenders are the underdogs. Is this just random battles being randoms, or are people starting to learn how to play these battles? :smallamused:
Edit: hey, new tech trees (http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/128447-tech-trees-updated/). Looks like I'm buying VK DB, Arl 44 and AMX 12t back at some point.
Jimorian
2012-06-29, 09:25 PM
Few days ago I tough Attackers in Prokhorovka were doomed to die. Now it seems defenders are the underdogs. Is this just random battles being randoms, or are people starting to learn how to play these battles? :smallamused:
What it looks like there, since I was on the losing side of defense a couple of times, is the defending team not sending anybody to the northern rail crossing, which is out of visual range of snipers on the hill. And in general if a fail team on defense doesn't defend AT the crossings, then things can go badly very fast.
The same goes for Karelia on offense, everybody seems to love to go up the hill to snipe, but if nobody scouts the middle (and it's pretty much a suicide mission to do so), then you won't ever have any targets to light up, while a defense scout camping at the base of the cliff lights up the snipers for easy kills.
And Malinovka on defense has the same problem that if you don't have an advance defense on the northern crest by the church, and in the eastern woods, you're doomed to get picked off camping on the hill.
The tactics don't really change all that much with these new modes, it's still important to seize chokepoints and high ground, there's just an added element of urgency to also take care of the target base.
Eldariel
2012-06-29, 09:58 PM
What it looks like there, since I was on the losing side of defense a couple of times, is the defending team not sending anybody to the northern rail crossing, which is out of visual range of snipers on the hill. And in general if a fail team on defense doesn't defend AT the crossings, then things can go badly very fast.
The same goes for Karelia on offense, everybody seems to love to go up the hill to snipe, but if nobody scouts the middle (and it's pretty much a suicide mission to do so), then you won't ever have any targets to light up, while a defense scout camping at the base of the cliff lights up the snipers for easy kills.
And Malinovka on defense has the same problem that if you don't have an advance defense on the northern crest by the church, and in the eastern woods, you're doomed to get picked off camping on the hill.
The tactics don't really change all that much with these new modes, it's still important to seize chokepoints and high ground, there's just an added element of urgency to also take care of the target base.
The different starting positions changes things a lot tho. Traditionally Malinovka is a fight for the hill...and now one team starts on the hill with full control. Prokhorovka is likewise dominated by the hill and one team starts on the hill now (not to mention, the other edge of the map is trivialized by base not being anywhere near there).
Regarding new trees, I really like the crossing from Tiger P to Ferdinand; provided I don't have a burning need to play Jagdpanther, I could go straight to Ferdi and skip JagdpzIV entirely. The new Russian med path looks interesting too.
The new French TD line so far is surprisingly good, even if you account for the traditional French "haha, you can't even run over a mailbox" thing.
Erloas
2012-06-29, 10:28 PM
So what is the new dark red American tanks on the list?
Also it would seem that the VK3601 would change from a medium to a heavy with that new tree.
Also tonight has sucked so far. Lost 7 in a row so far tonight, haven't even got a single win. After all that work to tie up my win/loss ratio over the last few weeks.
psilontech
2012-06-29, 11:18 PM
It seems I've switched up the T-50 into being my primary tank as of late. I just LOVE the little thing. Spottan, Arty Killin, and in the odd fun game with a tier five cap, killing everything that isn't a heavy.
In a tier-five capped game in the fast little bugger earlier Today. Did the usual of waiting (hoping) for enemy base to clear out to go bug the enemy SPGs. Run in after a few minutes, wipe out the four arty pieces sitting around while being wildly chased by a cardboard coffin and PzIV. Took out the T-28 first (Because I knew I could pen him) while wildly turning, looping, and juking. Took a single hit during all of this before turning my attention to the PzIV and his painfully slow turning turret, finishing him off after a bit of work on my part.
Not feeling like trying to cap and bringing unwanted attention onto myself I wander off into the hiding field to see if I can - Ooh, Marders and T82s just lit up! Bwahahahaha. Two T82s and a Marder get mercilessly circled before a churchill that was simply amazing at leading and predicting erratic targets comes up and finishes me off with a few very well placed shots.
Nine kills I believe it added up to, along with the scout award.
Just elited the little bugger, but I'm going to work on crew training for some time before I get the T-50-2. I don't know if I'll be able to give up tier five fights. Currently working out two crew members on camo, Commander on Mentor, and gunner on "More accurate whilst hauling buttocks" perk.
So what is the new dark red American tanks on the list?
Christie suspension Vehicles
Reaver225
2012-06-30, 05:14 AM
Took out the T-28 first (Because I knew I could pen him) while wildly turning, looping, and juking. Took a single hit during all of this before turning my attention to the PzIV and his painfully slow turning turret, finishing him off after a bit of work on my part.
T-50s are a bane on T-28s, simply because of their rapid firing gun and slopes means it's quite easy to bounce shots. I hope you enjoy your T-50-2!
I love when doing what people are complaining about works.
Was in my Marder II on Karliea Assault (Attacker) and drove up the hill to keep it covered as there was no way i was going to go anywhere else being the 2nd smallest unit on the team.
Constant stream of camping quips from a souma TD (who ill advisedly went out into the middle of the swamp and was wrecked early on) and general grumbling from assorted other tanks. (arty can hit you says a M4 - no really i didn't know that... Arty can hit most of that map aside from some good rock area's and behind the hill) 100% cammo + Net + sitting behind a bush hard up against a rock = Im not going to be seen till i shoot and i am not going to shoot till i have a target that i think i can hit
2 Kill and 2 Damaged from a T3 TD in a T6 battle is decent enough.
Eldariel
2012-06-30, 08:14 PM
How many tank slots does one really need? I calculated I'd want at least 20 and even on sale, that's quite a bit of money for something completely trivial. How many are the more experienced players here working with?
Renegade Paladin
2012-06-30, 08:33 PM
How many tank slots does one really need? I calculated I'd want at least 20 and even on sale, that's quite a bit of money for something completely trivial. How many are the more experienced players here working with?
I have fifteen slots, but I focus exclusively on the American heavy and medium trees, so it serves my needs. If I were collecting tanks from several nations or was interested in SPGs I'd need several times more.
How many tank slots does one really need? I calculated I'd want at least 20 and even on sale, that's quite a bit of money for something completely trivial. How many are the more experienced players here working with?
I only started playing for like a month and 16 is already not enough. :smallconfused:
I have 20 and its not enough.
Used to sell a tank to make space if i wanted something but now i have a stable selection that i am loath to part with but continue to want to try new things
darksolitaire
2012-07-01, 01:52 AM
16 slots here, these days I'll sell tanks I've elited. Only 5 are bought, managed to snatch 6 free slots from T-127/Tetrarch/French introduction and russian heavy tree change.
I have fifteen slots, but I focus exclusively on the American heavy and medium trees, so it serves my needs. If I were collecting tanks from several nations or was interested in SPGs I'd need several times more.
Unless you like playing low-tier SPGs (SU-26 is a beast), they generally are the elite-and-sell type. Though I might end up keeping 4 SPGs in my garage. (SU-26, SU-8, SU-14/Obj 212 and Obj 261.) I like playing with different kinds of SPG.
Eldariel
2012-07-01, 05:14 PM
Well, ****. Guess I should invest in at least like 10 more slots when they come on sale next. Haven't used any money thus far but right now I can't play Marder II and MS-1 while keeping my teching tanks and I'm only at Tier 7; it'll only get worse from here.
Lessee now, I'd want to hold:
Tier 1: MS-1
Tier 2: BT-2
Tier 3: Marder II, SU-26, (M2 MT/Pz38t)
Tier 4: Grille, (T-28/SU-85B)
Tier 5: PzIV, SU-85, Chaffee, T-50-2
Tier 6: KV-2, GwPanther, S-51, T-34-85, E8, E2, M18 Hellcat
Tier 7: T29, Tiger (P), M40/43, AMX 13 90
Tier 8: IS-3, ISU, Object 261, Gw TypE, Lorraine, (T92)
Tier 9: E-75, T30, (Patton/Bat****/T-54)
Tier 10: T110, Maus, IS-7
And that's before the French arty and TDs which I'm not familiar enough with, and before the new Tier 10 Meds and TDs.
So that's like 34 tanks before new releases, and 4 I might or might not hold...
Unrelated, could anybody explain why KV-3 has the highest win percentage of all Tier 7 tanks in pubs among the top EU players over the last 2 weeks (http://wot-news.com/stat/server/eu/top/en)?
Some other interesting statistics there too, such as yes, A-20, BT-7 & Sturmpanzer II are indeed objectively terrible, having under 50% average win rate among the game's top players.
darksolitaire
2012-07-01, 06:15 PM
Unrelated, could anybody explain why KV-3 has the highest win percentage of all Tier 7 tanks in pubs among the top EU players over the last 2 weeks (http://wot-news.com/stat/server/eu/top/en)?
KV-3 had one of the first win rates not so long ago...I wonder if it received stealth buff? :smalltongue: I'm more amazed by T25/2 and 59,7% win rate. That's terrible td and I can't be convinced otherwise.
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