Dispel Magic, Is It Good?

[Keegan__D]

I'm fairly new to dealing with spells, so I don't know many of the standards. Dispel Magic certainly sounds like a staple, but after reading it, it doesn't seem that good. Is Dispel Magic a common, worthwhile spell casters prepare/learn? Why or why not?

[Kol Korran]

Dispel magic is to my opinion one of the MUST (or nearly so) spells to learn/ memorize at 3rd level. many of the challenges you face involve various magical effects, either by caster or spell like effects and the like of monsters. this spell has the ability to take theme down.

taking down most of the defenses of a buffing cleric, rakshasa, wizard, and the like? check (direct dispel magic)

removing disabling spells from party members? hold person, charm, and the like? check. (note- dpesn't work with all spells, some need break enchantment)

- removing buffs from a mass of creatures? check (are version).

the spell is very versatile, and can be a life saver. true- the caster level check makesit a success or miss spell, but there are ways to upgrade caster level or the dice throw, and it is usually worth it. at least to my experience.

in a campaign i ran from levels 2-12 (in which the party found a partly depleted wand of dispel magic at 8th level i think) i think it ranks amongst the top 3 spells contributing to the party's survival.

oh, and it bypasses spell resistance. :smallsmile:

[Aegis013]

I personally like Dispel Magic and the following line. Even though the Caster Level rolls are stacked against you for successfully Dispelling, it can help you get past an annoying magic based obstacle or potentially remove enemy buffs, especially if you have things to boost your caster level or the roll. (Inquisition domain power comes to mind for boosting the roll)

Treantmonk's guides to Wizard spell schools suggest Dispel Magic is an excellent spell, and I'm inclined to agree.

[Acanous]

Dispel Magic is a very good spell, and if you take Quicken later, it's perfect for eating a 7th level slot.
dispel Magic, at low levels, functions almost exactly as advertized. Later on, it gets less and less useful (As enemy CLs become higher than you can dispel) HOWEVER, Items usually use a preset caster level, so ordinary Dispel Magic can turn them off for a few rounds. Which is crucial if they're wearing a Cloak Of Resistance and you want to hit them with a Save Or Lose.

I know in the campaign we're currently playing, I have 2-3 dispels, one quickened, a pair of Greater Dispel, and a couple Dimensional Anchors prepped, as well as one Anti-magic Field.
The DM got all mad when I hit his anti-paladin with Greater Dispel Magic on round one, to turn off al his equiptment.

[Malachei]

Dispel Magic is outstanding at caster levels 5 to about 12 to 14. Then, the advantage you get from Greater Dispel Magic becomes significant enough to justify the spell level difference.

As with most game aspects, the specific campaign plays a big role in determining usefulness:

Note that Dispel Magic is your premier weapon to deal with enemy casters (including creatures with SLA and spellcasting abilites). If you're rarely encountering enemy casters, you'll need Dispel Magic less often.

That said, it is an excellent spell and a must-have in most campaigns: It lets you shut down enemy battlefield control, drive away summoned monsters, dispel a lot of lasting effects on allies, temporarily deactivate magic items, remove enemy buffs, etc.

It is a multi-purpose weapon against the most powerful game mechanic an enemy can bring against you: magic.

[eggs]

The higher the level, the more useful the dispel effect becomes (though not Dispel Magic specifically, due to its CL cap) - both because the effects it disrupts become more powerful and because it's one of the few effects that's legitimately difficult to find an immunity against as the game edges toward Epic.

At level 5, I rarely fill a spell slot with it (it's not guaranteed to be useful; Haste and Fly are). At level 18, I rarely have fewer than 5-6 slots dedicated to some variation of the spell (Chain Dispel, Greater Dispel, Dispelling Screen).

[Zaq]

In 3.5, more magic = more better. Always. Dispel Magic is a spell that makes someone else less magical than you. This can only be a good thing.

Note that it can also be used to remove harmful effects, though you have to take care not to get rid of any buffs in the process.

[Killer Angel]

That said, it is an excellent spell and a must-have in most campaigns: It lets you shut down enemy battlefield control, drive away summoned monsters, dispel a lot of lasting effects on allies, temporarily deactivate magic items, remove enemy buffs, etc.

It is a multi-purpose weapon against the most powerful game mechanic an enemy can bring against you: magic.

Basically, this sums it up.
Must also be noted that it's often a single spell that has huge effects in a "action-economy" PoV. For example, if you shut down a battlefield control spell, your teammates won't waste multiple actions to avoid it.

[BerronBrightaxe]

As Kol Korran states, the various 'types' of dispelling (targeted or area) make it a very interesting spell to have, when you are faced with some form of casting enemy.

There is one more to consider, counterspelling. Normally u need to use the same spell as the one cast in case you want to counterspell. Dispel magic is the exception, which can be used to counter any other spell (although you still need to roll the casterlvlcheck). If you are going to build a counterspeller, dispel magic is a very good spell.


removing disabling spells from party members? hold person, charm, and the like? check. (note- dpesn't work with all spells, some need break enchantment)

A note to this variation is, when you target you party-member to dispel a certain debuff (hold person, charm, and the like), you use the targeted variant of dispel magic. The disadvantage with this begins when you (or a party member) have been buffing. The buffs of other party members are also subject to dispel magic. On top of that is that you automatically dispel any spells you have cast yourself.
FG: You (the wizard) has cast haste and the cleric has cast bear's endurance on the fighter. The fighter fails his save for Hold Person. Now if you use a targeted dispels, you automatically dispel haste and you roll for the bear's endurance and the hold person. When you use the aoe variant, you would only take away haste (your first succesfull dispel check).
(In this scenario the use of a targeted dispel is still viable. Although you would lose the buffs, the fighter can be coup-de-graced, but this isn't my point.)

[Malachei]

Good point. Even though counterspelling is often regarded as an inferior tactics, and I'd say only resort to counterspelling if you absolutely have to block the enemy's spells and have no better way to do so.


Basically, this sums it up.
Must also be noted that it's often a single spell that has huge effects in a "action-economy" PoV. For example, if you shut down a battlefield control spell, your teammates won't waste multiple actions to avoid it.

Good point. An example for how dispel magic can affect the action economy would be the effect a targeted greater dispel magic (or even a slashing dispel) has on a high level enemy caster. Even if the enemy caster is having the upper hand or winning the fight, bringing down >50% of his defense buffs might mean (a) he'd risk getting caught without protection, (b) he'd have to spend too many actions to get the buffs up again, so (c) he'd teleport out to fight another day.

[eggs]

Counterspelling is often weak compared to just throwing DPS at the other caster, but the features that make casting-interruption useful (like Divine Defiance or functionally-interpreted Battlemagic Perception) usually specify counterspells, which bring Dispels back into the picture.

[Ranting Fool]

Counterspelling is often weak compared to just throwing DPS at the other caster, but the features that make casting-interruption useful (like Divine Defiance or functionally-interpreted Battlemagic Perception) usually specify counterspells, which bring Dispels back into the picture.

True. Though I have found that if it's Party Vs BBEG who is a pure caster having one of your party ready with Dispell Magic as a counter spell (Was a favoured Soul last time this came up) can make a hard fight into a much easier one. As the party healer was stopping a lot of the damamge before it could be done.

[moritheil]

It's situational, but when you need it you really need it.

So yes, it's good, but it's not good 100% of the time. More of an issue with a sorcerer's limited spells known than with a wizard or cleric (who can just prep 1 or 2.)

[ericgrau]

Dispel faces the same benefits and drawbacks that other defensive magic does. Let's say you're casting 3rd level spells and so is your foe. He might cast 1 ongoing spell of 3rd or lower and then you blow a 3rd level spell to maybe remove it. This is a horrible use of a 3rd level spell slot and dispel should not be prepared in this case. Whatever he did to you, live with it, and attack with your own offensive spell instead rather than merely have a chance of undoing his. Assuming foes are even using ongoing effects at all. I don't usually get dispel at level 5. Now let's say you are level 10 and your foe is casting multiple buffs and/or debuffs of up to 5th level (but probably lower unless it's a boss fight) since he has a lot of extra spells per day now. With only 1 3rd level spell slot you remove half of them. This is a very efficient way to use dispel. I would get it in this case. In general defense is good using lower level slots since the cost is now less than the attacks you address.

When discussing it, dispel also faces the same issues that other random and/or situational effects face: People make the assumption that (a) you roll a success and (b) you actually face that situation. This assumption makes it seem a lot better than it is and is a poor way to make a decision. Even when things are unusually bad, the caster level is likely to be unusually high and your dispel is likely to fail without 4 copies and plenty of between combat time to cast them: not something you want to prepare the other 99% of the time unless you want to be useless; at least until higher levels when you have more spells. Instead consider the average results and take it when the odds are in your favor: i.e., when there are multiple spells you can dispel at the same time and/or higher levels.

[Rubik]

Basically, this sums it up.
Must also be noted that it's often a single spell that has huge effects in a "action-economy" PoV. For example, if you shut down a battlefield control spell, your teammates won't waste multiple actions to avoid it.

[Off-Topic]Psst. You've got a typo in your sig.[/Off-Topic]

[TavernMage]

Dispel magic is to my opinion one of the MUST

- removing buffs from a mass of creatures? check (are version).


How does Dispel Magic work with masses of creatures? Isn't the target of the spell a single creature?

[Crake]

How does Dispel Magic work with masses of creatures? Isn't the target of the spell a single creature?

It is in pathfinder, in 3.5 regular dispel magic had all the same functionality of greater dispel magic, with 2 exceptions: greater dispel magic can remove curses, wheras regular cannot, and greater dispel magic's caster level cap is 20, vs regular's 10.

Pathfinder on the other hand, removed the caster level caps, and removed regular dispel's ability to cover an area, as well overall reducing the effectiveness of how the dispelling works: area dispel is one roll vs all spells in effect, so if you roll badly on the first roll, you'll get nothing wrong, because lets be honest, it's unlikely that there's gonna be a variety in the caster level of effects in effect. 3.5 on the other hand, area dispel you roll against the highest spell level, then if you fail, you continue to roll until you either go through all the effects on a target, or you dispel something. Targeted dispel is also far worse in pathfinder. Regular dispel essentially does what the 3.5 area dispel does (but worse), against one person, and the greater dispel's targetted dispel only hits 1 effect per 4 CL, as opposed to attempting a dispel against every effect on the target.

These fairly significant differences actually matter quite a lot when it comes to discussing the value of dispel magic, so a pertient question for the OP: are you playing 3.5 or pathfinder? Considering how underwhelmed he sounded by the spell, I gotta assume it's pathfinder, because it IS underwhelming. You can spend a spell and an action to maybe remove the effect of someone else's spell and action.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread necromancy should be avoided here.