Magic missile optimization (help-me plz)

[NilOriol]

I'm playing a Buy the Numbers champain and my first character is on the edge of the dead (as probably all other players on there)
The campain is on iron kingdoms envorimend but all manuals are allowed
So i started to think what i wanna do if my character dies i readed to much tower of god lately (a comic) and i wanted to create a magic missile specialist.
well, i thought (and readed some old threads) that the way to go is something like this (being buy the numbers let me create an ultra-hibrid so i could take almost anything)

To being able to add metamagic feats easier/cheaper...
Arcane thesis
metamagic specialist (Player handbook 2)
Incantrix (magic of Faerun)


Adding some damage to my magic missiles
Draconic blood (forces) (pathfinder) --> +1 damage/missile
Warmage edge (completo arcano) ----->+Int to one missile
Argent servant (completo arcano) ------>+1 damage/ missile
Graz'zt (BoVD) ---------------------------->+ sneak one missile (probably master will ban it or exp x2)

well those are my ideas by now, hope some of you help me a little

BTW: First post here, your captcha is near imposible for me (and i'm NOT a bot) an honor to meet you all guys ^^

[DarkEternal]

There's a metamagic feat from Libris Mortis, I think it's called Fell drain. Basically, if your spells deal damage, they also add a negative level. Since you can fire up to what, four of those things at maximum level, you could stack 4 negative levels per casting(there is no save). The only thing is you need to remember the spell you apply the Fell Drain too as being two levels higher,but if you want to specialise in Magic Missile, I think that's a good way to go. Also, the enemies need to be "alive", just like pretty much everything that you can drain must be.

[NilOriol]

Thanks for answering that fast! :)

i'll have to talk with the dungeon master about this, cuz therare no levels in buy the numbers, making that hard to aply

(going to read exact text of fell drain)

EDIT:

Waw i was wrong!

it just cares about hit dices! :D (a thing i don't understand, each magic misile would put a negative lvl on the target, or all the magic missiles one?)
(i think i'm not explaining well, if i cast 5 magic missiles, the target would take a negative lvl or 5?)

[Tyndmyr]

There's a metamagic feat from Libris Mortis, I think it's called Fell drain. Basically, if your spells deal damage, they also add a negative level. Since you can fire up to what, four of those things at maximum level, you could stack 4 negative levels per casting(there is no save). The only thing is you need to remember the spell you apply the Fell Drain too as being two levels higher,but if you want to specialise in Magic Missile, I think that's a good way to go. Also, the enemies need to be "alive", just like pretty much everything that you can drain must be.

Fell drain only applies when "a spell deals damage". It's not per missile, it's a single effect. It's still a good metamagic mind you, but firing four missiles does not deal four negative levels to a single target.

You can, however, deal 1 negative level to each of four targets. You can also twin/repeat the spell to deal four negative levels to four targets. Also consider quicken. It's a possibly nasty combo. A warmage in one of my groups is using this, and the warmage edge, the regular damage, the bonuses from the class granted suddens, and his normal metamagics all add up with the damage from fell drain to drop things pretty quickly.

[Uncle Pine]

I'm almost sure that if you cast a magic missile using fell drain and you hit a different creature with every missile every enemy gets a negative level. I'm not sure about stacking more negative levels on one enemy with a single magic missile spell.
You should also check the Force Missile Mage: it's a PrC presented in Dragon Magazine #328, or in Dragon Magazine Compendium. In 5 levels you get 2 additional missiles with your magic missile spells, energy damage on your missiles and other useful abilities.

[Feytalist]

In addition to the force mage (argent savant, which you mentioned), there's also the force missile mage, from some or other Dragon issue (Google tells me it's Dragon #328). It boosts magic missile in a few different ways (bonus missiles, stilled casting, heightened caster level, etc).

[Krohm]

I am not certain that a spell that can be negated by a lvl 1 spell is a good option for a all in.

[Uncle Pine]

I am not certain that a spell that can be negated by a lvl 1 spell is a good option for a all in.
Usually only wizards actually use shield, and Force Missile Mage lets you roll in order to penetrate shield spells.
In any case, it's good to deal 7d4+7 damages with a lvl 1 spell :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I'd also point out that only paranoid wizards usually prepare shield at mid-high levels, unless they know that a Force Missile Mage is coming to crush their brains.

[NilOriol]

@Krohm: it might not be a great idea power wise talking, thats why i'm searching how to improve it, but is cool as hell

mmm gonna read that PrC

[Tyndmyr]

I am not certain that a spell that can be negated by a lvl 1 spell is a good option for a all in.

Force Missile Mage actually explicitly lets you ignore Shield, as well as other immunities to magic missile.

I should have suggested it earlier, actually, it's perfect here, I just somehow sort of assumed it'd be used.

[Uncle Pine]

I also remember to have read a feat that allows you to split spells' level while preparing them. For example, preparing 7 lvl 1 magic missiles instead of 1 lvl 7 spell.
I'm gonna see if I can find that feat again.

[Larkas]

I think I'm just gonna leave this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7802.0) here... :smallwink:

[ThiagoMartell]

Man, I always get confused when we see optimization in Iron Kingdoms. It just feels... wrong.

[Agent 451]

It just feels... wrong.

How so? I know nothing about the Iron Kingdoms setting, care to explain a little?

[LeshLush]

Fell Frighten is good as well. Everyone who gets hit by a missile gets shaken.

[TuggyNE]

EDIT: I'd also point out that only paranoid wizards usually prepare shield at mid-high levels, unless they know that a Force Missile Mage is coming to crush their brains.

I would like to suggest that perhaps it is only paranoid wizards that are alive at mid-high levels.

(But, as already mentioned, shield/nightshield won't actually work against FMM.)

[NilOriol]

I think I'm just gonna leave this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7802.0) here... :smallwink:

waw that's amazing... O.O

anyway fell-things seem for me the way to go, and those things to add damage

[Fouredged Sword]

Also consider fell weaken for low level slots. -4 to strength is awesome at low levels.

[Getsugaru]

First off, I have to mention one of the greatest Metamagic Feats in history: Invisible Spell. It is a +0 Metamagic that makes your spell completely invisible. I have yet to see a situation where it hasn't come in handy. Secondly, are you a prepared caster or a spontaneous caster? Depending on which you are, there's a useful trick to getting infinite first level spells. Finally, what do you want to do with this character? Do you want them to constantly barrage your foes with missiles, or have each missile serve some practical purpose on the side?

[NilOriol]

First off, I have to mention one of the greatest Metamagic Feats in history: Invisible Spell. It is a +0 Metamagic that makes your spell completely invisible. I have yet to see a situation where it hasn't come in handy. Secondly, are you a prepared caster or a spontaneous caster? Depending on which you are, there's a useful trick to getting infinite first level spells. Finally, what do you want to do with this character? Do you want them to constantly barrage your foes with missiles, or have each missile serve some practical purpose on the side?

Invisible spell? from where??
i'm a spontaneous caster (with Metamagic specialist instead of familiar) and i want a mage that use utility forces spells and its way to deal damage is magic missile

[Getsugaru]

Invisible spell? from where??
i'm a spontaneous caster (with Metamagic specialist instead of familiar) and i want a mage that use utility forces spells and its way to deal damage is magic missile

This might be of some use to you: Metamagic and You: a Thesis (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876):smallcool:

Also, since you are a spontaneous caster, there is something you NEED TO TAKE! It's called Versatile Spellcaster, found in Races of the Dragon on page 101, I think. Here's what it does: you can use two lower-level spell slots to cast a spell one level higher. Now here's why this is good for you. You, as a spontaneous caster, get as many 0-level spells per day as you want. Magic Missiles is normally a 1st-level spell (ie without Metamagics that are +1 or more). That means you can cast as many 1st-level spells as you want per day and can cast an additional 1/2 1st-level spell slots as 2nd-level spells FOR FREE! How can a spontaneous caster not take this feat? This is especially great for you since your main spell is the 1st-level Magic Missiles.:smallamused:

Now before I go further, which are you; a Bard, Sorcerer, Beholder Mage, etc.? This information will enable me to tell you what feats I know of that can make your spontaneous meta-casting not take a full round action...:smallwink:

Until then, happy optimizing!:smallbiggrin:

[Lateral]

You, as a spontaneous caster, get as many 0-level spells per day as you want.

No, you can't.

[Waddacku]

Unlimited level 0 slots? Looked like he was playing 3.5 to me.

[Getsugaru]

No, you can't.

Really, that's how it works last time I checked. [goes to d20srd...][goes to d20pfsrd...] Oops, I guess I was thinking of pathfinder. But I'm pretty sure that, even if you only get 6 0-level spells per day, you can cast them as much as you want, you just can only use the six different spells you chose when you cast, meaning if you cast Prestidigitation, you can cast it and 5 other 0-level spells as much as you want, but no others, so no prestidigitation+6 other 0-level spells.

That's how I was taught.

[Getsugaru]

Unlimited level 0 slots? Looked like he was playing 3.5 to me.

Wait, I'm confused. This isn't 3.5?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see what you meant.

[Urpriest]

That's how I was taught.

No, it wasn't. It's the sort of thing that would need a specific rule indicating it, and there isn't one. It isn't the sort of mistake you can make just by not reading everything.

[Getsugaru]

No, it wasn't. It's the sort of thing that would need a specific rule indicating it, and there isn't one. It isn't the sort of mistake you can make just by not reading everything.

Hey, I don't want this to turn into a troll-fest, but I was just saying how I was taught, not how the rules teach, as I was taught by a friend. I must have just misunderstood what he said when he taught me the basics of arcane magic. It was just my mistake, that's all.

EDIT: No, I wasn't trying to make a pun off of your current rank in the playground. I just noticed your rank now, and wasn't trying to make a joke that would surely lead to a war and closure of this thread. If I have offended you in any way, I apologize.:smallfrown:

[Getsugaru]

Anyways, Urpriest, what would you suggest for this guy's build?

[Man on Fire]

This may be useful (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Magic_Missile_Stormer_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Bu ild))

[Urpriest]

Anyways, Urpriest, what would you suggest for this guy's build?

Ah yes, sorry, I should actually say something constructive in this thread rather than simply being a jerk. My apologies.

Dragonlance War Mage might be nice. Also from Dragonlance, Reserves of Strength lets you uncap a spell, which can be pretty powerful with Magic Missile.

[ThiagoMartell]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a chance any spell can summon a demon or something like that in the Iron Kingdoms?

[Getsugaru]

Ladies, gentlemen, and OP. I think I just hit the Jackpot. Though not necessarily meant for magic missile users alone, many of the things in it could easily be used for your build, especially the spell list and tricks guide. Behold, I deliver to you, The Mailman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer), master of delivering massive damage packages no matter if their's rain, snow or flaming cows raining from the sky(which, by the way, is an awesome homebrew spell KA once told me about that makes flaming livestock rain like meteors! Fun!)! :smallamused:

EDIT: Woops, wrong system. That spell is for Oblivion. My mistake...:smallbiggrin: