Completely Rewriting someone.

[Morithias]

Now I can't go into major detail as to WHY I need this data, but let me just say it's probably illegal to post my plan on this forum due to good taste.

Now I know one source.

The mindrape spell from BOVD lets you completely rewrite personality, but it doesn`t let you rewrite feats or skill points, or class levels.

Is there anyways to do those things?

Keep in mind that I can't use the "retraining" rules, because the person i'm doing it to...well...it's not being done willingly.

[Tulya]

You could follow up the Mindrape with a Psychic Reformation on the now fanatical follower, who will accept your guidance in the selection of their skills and feats. A single Cerebremancer could swing both. I'm not really sure on complete releveling tricks, though.

[tyckspoon]

The only way I know of to redo levels (besides the most extreme version of retraining) is to abuse negative levels; when they go permanent, you lose a level. But when you get it restored, you regain your *xp total*; there's nothing that forces you to use that XP to retake the same kind of level you lost. So get your new best buddy/servant to cuddle a Wight until he's level 1, then Restoration/Thought Bottle him and have him re-level in the build you want.

[Feralventas]

There isn't a mechanical value for it, but the fluff on Elans states that they lose all previous class levels and start back and 1. There's an online psionic Vestige (of Pact Magic and ToM fame) that is said to be the first Elan who kept repeating his transformation because he'd go through the process, forget how he did so, and then go through his research again and again because each time he did it he forgot how it happened.

So Mindrape-> elan transformation.

A well-worded Wish or Reality Revision might get your target's levels back, though as what I'm not sure.

Edit: if you tell us what class, it may be possible to re-set their action and activity style via Psychic Reformation; a Fighter could be re-set from a POWER ATTACK CLEAVE AND CRUSH to a Spear-and-board combat expertise defender with Martial Stance+Martial Study for utilities. A Sneaky-Stabby rogue could switch their TWF and Stealth feats to conversational and diplomatic abilities. 'Casters might be easy as well if you can effect their spells known (Enchantment spec to Necromancy, or Conjuration to Illusion.)

[Morithias]

Edit: if you tell us what class, it may be possible to re-set their action and activity style via Psychic Reformation; a Fighter could be re-set from a POWER ATTACK CLEAVE AND CRUSH to a Spear-and-board combat expertise defender with Martial Stance+Martial Study for utilities. A Sneaky-Stabby rogue could switch their TWF and Stealth feats to conversational and diplomatic abilities. 'Casters might be easy as well if you can effect their spells known (Enchantment spec to Necromancy, or Conjuration to Illusion.)

Okay I'll say what I'm trying to do. I'll try to keep it board okay.

My character is an evil prince trying to impress an elder evil, the FIRST elder evil. His plan is as follows.

1. Capture Saints
2. Turn Saints into sex slaves.

So it's less "class" an more "you went from an exalted paladin to an expert with ranks in profession (prostitute)"

It's meant to be basically the most vile act one can commit, as a tribute to the elder god he's trying to impress.

[Telonius]

It's meant to be basically the most vile act one can commit, as a tribute to the elder god he's trying to impress.

I'd go with "trafficker" as being a bit further down the vile scale than "slave." It also wouldn't require quite as dramatic a departure from typical "adventurer" abilities (except possibly a high Intimidate check).

[Morithias]

I'd go with "trafficker" as being a bit further down the vile scale than "slave." It also wouldn't require quite as dramatic a departure from typical "adventurer" abilities (except possibly a high Intimidate check).

So declaring war on an exalted country, capturing their Saint generals, and then proceeding to rewrite their minds from exalted heroes of justice to nothing more than lustful toys is less vile?

[Feralventas]

Hmmm....

Why are you turning them from good to neutral? Sex isn't vile, and while your abuse of them qualifies as evil you're not really doing much other than converting them to Neutrality. What you're Really going to want to do is convert them from Good to Evil. Re-write their history and beliefs to alter their alignments and turn them to your own causes.

Blackguards are more valuable than Experts in most cases, and turning Good to Evil will be a more fitting tribute than simply wasting resources.

And it's not like you can't write in some undying loyalty and obsessive obedience while you're at it to get the same sort of result + blackguard/vile class/PrC's. Maybe a couple cross-class ranks or multi-class dips for UMD, but that's about it.

[Slipperychicken]

My character is an evil prince trying to impress an elder evil, the FIRST elder evil. His plan is as follows.

1. Capture Saints
2. Turn Saints into sex slaves.


You can do worse. Make them sell their souls to the Elder Evil. Spend the feats on Skill Focus (Craft: Basketweaving). Baskets for the Basket God!


You must transform them into your main lieutenants: bastions of whatever depraved insanity the Evil likes best. Watch the do-gooders cower as their former saviors embody the vilest sin!

[Telonius]

So declaring war on an exalted country, capturing their Saint generals, and then proceeding to rewrite their minds from exalted heroes of justice to nothing more than lustful toys is less vile?

Yep. Rewriting their minds from exalted heroes of justice to become sex traffickers is worse. If they're slaves, they're just victims. If they're traffickers, they create more victims.

[Slipperychicken]

Yep. Rewriting their minds from exalted heroes of justice to become sex traffickers is worse. If they're slaves, they're just victims. If they're traffickers, they create more victims.

Be sure to get them into every sin you can think of, including baby-eating and jaywalking.

[Morithias]

Yep. Rewriting their minds from exalted heroes of justice to become sex traffickers is worse. If they're slaves, they're just victims. If they're traffickers, they create more victims.

Oh! I see what you mean...not a bad idea.

[Fatebreaker]

Hmmm....

Why are you turning them from good to neutral? Sex isn't vile, and while your abuse of them qualifies as evil you're not really doing much other than converting them to Neutrality.

Buddy, if you've only ever had Neutral sex, you're not doing it right.

*ba-dum-cha!*

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.

Seriously, though, regardless of whether "sex" in general is Good, Neutral, or Evil, I think Feralventas has the right idea -- making someone a sex slave doesn't make them Evil, it just makes them a victim.

Morithas, your act of desecration is, as desecration goes, fairly tame. I don't know how your group feels about despicable acts, but if they're game, you can do a whole lot more.

The sex traffickers, for example, is good because the ex-saints are now enabling the degradation and exploitation of others. Add in something about sex-rituals to summon daemons whose very presence pollutes and corrupts the world around them. Use tainted saints to preach false hope to communities before unleashing calamity. Inspire the common man to reach for great things, and then take it all away -- and then offer them an out, if only they will accept this small Evil into their life...

Break a body, and you inspire vengeance.

Break a spirit, and you inspire obedience.

The Order of the Good Swords of Goodness, on seeing the captured, mindraped saints, will declare crusade to destroy you. The Order of the Good Swords of Goodness, on being corrupted by your mindraped saints, will be your instruments of further atrocities.

And when the heroes show up to stop you? Man, sorting out the truly Evil from the corrupted Evil from the misguided Neutral from the just-following-orders-Good is gonna be such a headache, they're bound to commit some act of Evil stopping you. Even in defeat, you win!

[kardar233]

The other thing you want to make sure of is that your opponents cannot dehumanize them. Keep their personalities identifiable, their memories uncorrupted and above all, keep them happy. If you make them truly happy with what they are doing, and yet perfectly reasonable about it you will leave a hell of an impression on whoever they leave alive.

When your old mentor falls to the Dark Side hard enough to leave cracks in the pavement but will still joke, reminisce about old times, get in theological discussions (with their own warped but perfectly sensible viewpoint) and generally be real, pleasant people only the most fanatical would try to kill them.

[Morithias]

The Order of the Good Swords of Goodness, on seeing the captured, mindraped saints, will declare crusade to destroy you. The Order of the Good Swords of Goodness, on being corrupted by your mindraped saints, will be your instruments of further atrocities.

And when the heroes show up to stop you? Man, sorting out the truly Evil from the corrupted Evil from the misguided Neutral from the just-following-orders-Good is gonna be such a headache, they're bound to commit some act of Evil stopping you. Even in defeat, you win!

Funny thing about the "order". The Saints are our last opponents in the campaign, which is "Take over the known material plane."

So really, once we take them out, there won't be anyone left to oppose us....at least until my Prince becomes a god from the people's worship, opens a portal to ANOTHER material plane, and starts conquest all over again.

Really? You guys don't think that what I stated was that vile? Geeze I'd hate to know what type of crap you guys get up to in your evil campaigns.

The thing about sex trafficking...it's not what Alex would do. You see he plans to become a god by pretending to be a good-aligned ruler and bring the people's worship to him.

Perhaps turning them into my own personal clergy...

[demigodus]

In that case the converted saints should be helping convince people of Alex's godhood. Much more useful then being his sex slaves... not that the two are mutually exclusive.

Possibly bring yourself up as a god of justice or something. And have a few crimes punished by death. Then institute public executions, handled by the Saints. Publicly executing murderers, rapists, etc. seems like a pretty lawful act right? Especially given the time right? That is why the execution will be in the form of the human sacrifice ritual from the BoVD. Possibly have the more graphic parts done behind stage, then bring the criminals out in front of public eyes for the grand finish, with a long speech about your holyness and how it is your justice to punish the wicked, and blah blah. Then once the saints have publicly performed human sacrifices towards you, they go back to converting people to your greatness. And possibly acting as your personal toys in their off time.

Also, all of the criminals will have their guilt verified by divine magic... used by the saints. So it is totally impossible to randomly execute innocents in this ritual, because it would require the saints to lie. And that doesn't happen right...

Nothing like having the masses cheer on as some Saints execute a few innocents after having tortured said innocents...

[Zedicius]

Really? You guys don't think that what I stated was that vile? Geeze I'd hate to know what type of crap you guys get up to in your evil campaigns.

Welcome too the internet. Will you be staying long?

Hmm, converting them does seem like a good idea. If they're the last bastion of resistance against the almighty Alex then they must surely be quite strong. Turning them in to your personal heralds and sending them off to other worlds to conquer might be suitably evil.

[kardar233]

Really? You guys don't think that what I stated was that vile? Geeze I'd hate to know what type of crap you guys get up to in your evil campaigns.

Let's just say if turning your greatest opponents into your personal sex slaves is what's Vile for you, I'd advise you stay far away from my Druchii campaigns. That's nearly Neutral by our standards. :smallamused:

[Acanous]

Profound, subtle alterations are the best.

Disclaimer: the following are examples of being really evil in game. Do not read ahead if you are easilly offended, or if you have a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality.

You get in a battle with St. Jerimiah the Rightious. It's long and drawn out, the two of you fight across planes, off the radar.

He comes back, a little hurt, but mostly Ok. You come back fine, and let him go lick his wounds.

He starts marshalling up a new force to oppose you, rallying the rebels to his banner.

Then someone finds out he's been touching little boys.

Suddenly your evil empire looks a lot more reasonable.

St. Celeste the Wise has been a constant pain in your side, ministering to the hearts of the people, and bolstering her allies before they battle your forces, keeping the rebels supplied in a guerilla war. You had to spend quite a few resources to locate her, and talk her into a debate, which you lose.

A few weeks later, it's revealed that she's been seducing the soldiers away from their wives, then assigning them to suicide squads when she gets bored.

Now your empire looks less manipulative.

St. Archibald the Fearless has been your greatest threat thus far, with his library of spells and assortment of magic items. You needed to send assassins and employ unusual magics to deprive him of his protections long enough to get to him sucessfully. But you eventually did, and none were wiser.
Now his personal chef has gone missing. A few days later, the replacement chef is found murdered. This carries on until one escapes, and spreads the tale of how Archibald dines exclusively on human flesh, claiming it to be the source of his arcane powers.

If you do it right, you only need to get a couple of the Saints before the populace starts questioning ALL of them. People remember the bad more easilly than the good. Stain their reputations, and you cripple their ability to lead. When your army marches in, it will be as liberators, not conquerors.