(PF) gunslinger/Wizard/Eldritch Knight

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

TO reiterate: PF only.

So, got interested in creating a Gunslinger 1/Wizard (Spellslinger) 5/Eldritch Knight X from my recent thread about ray specialist wizards. Here is a rough build, I would love some feedback.

20 point buy, Human Gunslinger 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 6

STR 10
DEX 14 (16)
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 12
CHA 8

1 Point Blank Shot
1 Precise Shot
3 Deadly Aim
5 Rapid Reload
7 Extra Grit
9 Quick Draw
11 Toughness

Wizard
5 Reach Spell

EK
1 (7) Weapon Focus: Ray
5 (11) Specialization: Ray

So heres the thing: I have no idea what spells to take, or which schools I should pick as opposition, and I haven't really got the time or motivation to flip through every PF spell. All I now is that I want Evocation (obviously), and Necromancy.

I also plan on using a single pistol, both for thematic reasons and because of the low reload time. I am also not sure what items to pick up as I gain more gold.

It obviously gimps the wizard quite a bit, but I don't mind. I love the idea of blending magic and technology.

Any help is MUCH appreciated, I love the idea of this character, if i get to play it i have a feeling it might become a favorite.

[Feralventas]

Well, if you're planning to focus on your damage dealing, blasting and shooting, then Evocation and Necromancy are good schools to keep, along with Conjuration IIRC. It's easier (I think) to look at the schools that Don't facilitate that and discard them and take what's left.

Abjuration does not blast much, and certainly not out of a gun.
Conjuration has things like Acid Splash and conjuring ammunition.
Divination can't be banned IIRC, but if you can then it's not a blasty school.
Enchantment? Nope, you're shooting folks not charming them.
Evocation: BOOM.
Illusion makes people Think you've shot them, but you're already Actually shooting them so why does this matter?
Necromancy isn't As blasty as evocation, but has lots of touch and ranged-touch options.
Transmutation's got some blasty stuff, but the only Gem for you would be Disintegrate which you can just use Sonic spells to do for the most part.

So, Evocation, Conjuration, Necromancy and Divination are probably your Spellslinger school choices (unless you're going normal wizard, then see below.

Abjuration doesn't shoot much, but it can be useful to set up traps, guards, wards, and defenses to mess people up so that you can shoot them up more.
Conjuration also has things like Walls and Summons; walls provide cover for you to shoot from and Summons can clear paths for you to run across while shooting (shot on the run; pick it up).
Divination tells you where to shoot.
Enchantment convinces folks you won't shoot them before you shoot them.
Evocation is what you're shooting them with.
Illusion lets you hide while you shoot, and can make it easier to force folks into the open.
Necromancy is your backup shooty school.
Transmutation, like abjuration, helps you set up your fight, as well as buffing yourself and your firearms.

[Waker]

For the Gunslinger, you might consider taking the Pistolero archetype. The first deed they get, Up Close And Deadly, says that by spending a grit point you deal extra damage and deal damage even on a miss. Because of this, you could argue that when firing a ray through your gun, you can't miss (except on a natural 1).
For your schools, I'd suggest dropping: Abjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Illusion. Both Conjuration and Transmutation have a number of decent attack spells, plus buffs and battlefield control.
I know that they improved toughness a bit, but I still don't think it's that amazing. I would rather have taken Improved Precise Shot, but since you are dividing your points between Int and Dex, the 19 dex would be hard to get.
A really nice feat to consider would be Ricochet Shot (requires Blind-Fight) as it would let you shoot around corner and just be annoying in general. The added bonus of ignoring cover/concealment is also very nice. It doesn't specify what kind of projectile you use, so arguably you could fire spells through your gun like this.

[Rhaegar14]

Umm, not to rain on your parade, but unless your DM is willing to help you out, this will not work with Wizard. PrCs don't give Wizards their two new spells per level, even when they advance caster level. So unless your DM is either a) willing to waive that rule or b) willing to give you easy/convenient access to scrolls of your choice whenever you gain a new spell level, this isn't going to be sustainable.

[Blisstake]

Umm, not to rain on your parade, but unless your DM is willing to help you out, this will not work with Wizard. PrCs don't give Wizards their two new spells per level, even when they advance caster level. So unless your DM is either a) willing to waive that rule or b) willing to give you easy/convenient access to scrolls of your choice whenever you gain a new spell level, this isn't going to be sustainable.

Scrolls aren't incredibly hard to come by, and most will allow them to be purchased as per Core Rulebook.

That being said, the vast majority of DMs I've had either waive that rule, or don't even bother with tracking wizard spellbooks, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.


Divination can't be banned IIRC, but if you can then it's not a blasty school.
Enchantment? Nope, you're shooting folks not charming them.

Divination can be banned in PF, unlike in 3.5.
Enchantment actually isn't a horrible choice. You shoot the spell out of your gun, but that doesn't actually hurt them, and it can increase the DC by a significant amount.

[stack]

How many of those enchantments are rays/cones/lines? Are there any?

At least illusion gets color spray (which would be fun at low levels with the DC boost).

[Mari01]

Scrolls aren't incredibly hard to come by, and most will allow them to be purchased as per Core Rulebook.

That being said, the vast majority of DMs I've had either waive that rule, or don't even bother with tracking wizard spellbooks, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Any why not? If someone can't be bothered to track their own spellbook, they should just roll a sorcerer. You'd be shocked how many times I've had to call out the resident wizard player on having spells prepare (one of which resulted in my characters death at the time).

[Rhaegar14]

Any why not? If someone can't be bothered to track their own spellbook, they should just roll a sorcerer. You'd be shocked how many times I've had to call out the resident wizard player on having spells prepare (one of which resulted in my characters death at the time).

I actually routinely give my DM a list of every spell in my book when I play a book caster. It's no fun if he makes a puzzle that's supposed to be challenging, and then I solve it with one spell (For instance, locked door, puzzle to open it, "lol Knock.").

[Mari01]

I actually routinely give my DM a list of every spell in my book when I play a book caster. It's no fun if he makes a puzzle that's supposed to be challenging, and then I solve it with one spell (For instance, locked door, puzzle to open it, "lol Knock.").

My point being that prepared casters are prepared for a reason. If you're playing a prepared caster as a spontaneous one, that's a huge power shift. It makes a big (admittedly small) difference to always have the right spell in the right amounts on hand if you're not going to track your prepared spells and the amounts.

[Crasical]

How many of those enchantments are rays/cones/lines? Are there any?

At least illusion gets color spray (which would be fun at low levels with the DC boost).

There really aren't many. Ray/cone/line seems to mostly be Evocation, with a few Necromancy spells for flavor.

[Blisstake]

Any why not? If someone can't be bothered to track their own spellbook, they should just roll a sorcerer. You'd be shocked how many times I've had to call out the resident wizard player on having spells prepare (one of which resulted in my characters death at the time).

It's not that they can't be bothered, it just ends up being more time consuming having to keep track of two different lists for spells learned and prepared and constantly having to check between the two to know what you have available. Clerics and Druids don't have to, so I apply the same to wizards thinking it'll save a bit of a headache. It usually does.

Regardless, that's just a minor point saying against EK's being unplayable due to technically not getting new spells each level. There are plenty of DMs who go with alternate rules, and I was just giving an example.


How many of those enchantments are rays/cones/lines? Are there any?

I forgot about that restriction, never mind.

[Mari01]

It's not that they can't be bothered, it just ends up being more time consuming having to keep track of two different lists for spells learned and prepared and constantly having to check between the two to know what you have available. Clerics and Druids don't have to, so I apply the same to wizards thinking it'll save a bit of a headache. It usually does.

Regardless, that's just a minor point saying against EK's being unplayable due to technically not getting new spells each level. There are plenty of DMs who go with alternate rules, and I was just giving an example.



I forgot about that restriction, never mind.

But they're exempt for a different reason. And yes they're supposed to keep track of their spells prepared. They spells known list just happens to be ALL.

A bit more on topic I'd say that the bonus spells would not be a good reason to avoid EK. If you want to progress your wizard caster level while maintaing your BAB, edlritch knight would be best. However, keep in mind that using guns means the majority of your attacks will be touch attacks. You won't need that high of a BAB and could probably get away just fine with finishing out wizard.

[Blisstake]

But they're exempt for a different reason. And yes they're supposed to keep track of their spells prepared.

My players still keep track of prepared spells :smallconfused: I have absolutely no idea how it would work otherwise, unless they just want to play a sorcerer. Which they will if they don't like preparing spells.

I'm just saying I waive the spellbook, since it ends up being a bit of a hassle.

[Mari01]

My players still keep track of prepared spells :smallconfused: I have absolutely no idea how it would work otherwise, unless they just want to play a sorcerer. Which they will if they don't like preparing spells.

I'm just saying I waive the spellbook, since it ends up being a bit of a hassle.

OH ok. You waive the book itself. That's entirely reasonable then.

[grarrrg]

If you can get the DM to consider "caster level" equivalent to "Wizard level", then Opposition Research (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/opposition-research) would be worth a look, as it would drop your Opposed Schools down to just 3.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

yes, I forgot about opposition Research, thats a decent one.

Also, when it comes to wizards, I dont mind spending extra money to add spells to my spellbook. that's the cost of being better than a sorcerer.
Its an expected cost of my parade, which shall be awesome, regardless of rain or shine.

Pistolero may indeed be a good idea. All that really matter though is that i have Quick Clear, which I assumed my grit would be spent on rather than Up Clsoe and Deadly.

I realized today I should also probably make room for Arcane Strike, and delay Deadly Aim a couple levels. Probably replace Extra Grit with Deadly Aim. Any thoughts?

Im not too worried about getting Imp. Precise shot, due to the fact that with my high BAB from Eldritch Knight I should be hitting with touch attacks regardless of cover. Im not planning on shooting through key holes, in any case.

Thanks for all the replies!

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

any thoughts on Arcane Strike/Arcane Armor Training?

[Arcanist]

My players still keep track of prepared spells :smallconfused: I have absolutely no idea how it would work otherwise, unless they just want to play a sorcerer. Which they will if they don't like preparing spells.

I'm just saying I waive the spellbook, since it ends up being a bit of a hassle.

I wish you were my DM :smallannoyed: I have an old notebook from a campaign that I was in and only got to use 7 times...