Ways to improve Tripping?

[killem2]

I am looking to build a stout battlefield control who focuses a lot on tripping. In the upcoming campaign our group is going to be pretty melee heavy and I want to trip targets and watch them trigger AoO from all corners of the globe.

Now, I am going to be a monk (only level 2, then I am going deep into other unarmed damage and full BAB things) but at the core I really want to take advantage of Tripping and Combat Reflexes.

I was trying to find a way to use DEX for tripping but it appears the easier way to go is to actually get bigger, get stronger, and trips will be easier.

I am a Catfolk monk. These two things are non-changeable, (mainly because I already bought the miniature :smallbiggrin:)

[Malachei]

Enlarge Person. Assuming a catfolk is a person ;) Thicket of Blades would be nice. Spiked Chain or only unarmed?

EDIT: And take Improved Trip, of course. But I shouldn't really need to say that, should I?

[Invader]

Improved trip doesn't really make it easier to trip but not provoking an AOO and getting a free attack is nice although there might be more cost effective ways of getting these benefits through PrC's, I'm not sure.

[Malachei]

I can only recommend Person Man's Guide to Melee Combos. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026)

[Flickerdart]

There's a certain kind of mushroom...

Knock-down (CWar) is a must-have, as it lets you double up on attacks while knocking dudes over. The Passive Way monk style gives you Combat Expertise and Improved Trip as your 1st and 2nd level bonus feats, and like all Monk bonus feats, you don't need to meet their prerequisites.

If you have room for it in your build, a 3-level dip into Factotum will give you INT as a bonus to trip attempts, and then you can use Carmendine Monk to base your Monk abilities off Intelligence too.

[Aegis013]

Monk 2/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Crusader 3/Psychic Warrior 1/? (I'd say more Crusader)

Wolf Totem Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana) trades in Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip at level 2, which is obviously important to any tripping build.

Additionally Lion Spirit Totem (Complete Champion) can be added for Pounce, and Whirling Frenzy (Unearthed Arcana) can be taken instead of rage, if allowed.

Crusader 3 will net you Thicket of Blades stance, which is superb for trippers, as it prevents enemies from 5' stepping without provoking AoO's from you.

Psychic Warrior nets you Expansion, which helps you get big. You should have a positive modifier in Wisdom since you're starting with Monk, so you should get bonus power points. Enough to cast Expansion at least 1/day. (it only costs 1 after all)

As far as your feats go, you should consider
Combat Reflexes, Standstill, Knockdown, Karmic Strike or Rolibar's Gambit, Power Attack, Extra Granted Maneuver (for Crusader), and Improved Initiative

[Flickerdart]

Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18 with Tashalatora would work better, or maybe even Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 8/Slayer 10. That way you don't get pesky alignment conflicts, and have good psionics.

[Curmudgeon]

You say you're going to be a Catfolk. Can you be a Half-Minotaur (Dragon # 313, pages 94-95) Catfolk? It's +1 LA to gain Large size and various stat adjustments.

A spiked chain is the best weapon for tripping. Doubling your reach means you affect about 4x as many squares, and greater reach is key to battlefield control. You'll want to take advantage of other ways of gaining reach as well. Extended Reach (Savage Species, page 34) gives you +5' reach if you have a flexible attack or flexible body parts. Aberration Blood feat with flexible limbs (Lords of Madness, page 178) gives any Humanoid that qualification. If you already have Aberration Blood you also qualify for Inhuman Reach (Lords of Madness, page 180) for another +5'.

If you're wielding a spiked chain don't forget a pair of Steadfast Boots (Magic Item Compendium, pages 138-139). You'll get a boost to avoid counter-trips (so you won't have to drop your weapon) and you're always ready to hit (and, naturally, trip) anyone who tries to charge you.

[killem2]

You say you're going to be a Catfolk. Can you be a Half-Minotaur (Dragon # 313, pages 94-95) Catfolk? It's +1 LA to gain Large size and various stat adjustments.

Sadly two things keep me from getting the half-minotaur thing, one is that it will make me la +2 and we are only allowed +1. (This I might be able to get around, by waiting to play this character when everyone is at least level 2 or 3).

The other problem is the unclear information about how the increase in size effects the bonuses. Some say only what is listed in the magazine are what count, some say you get those in addition to what you get in the the monster manual for size increases.

It is because of the monster sizes in the manual, DM has said now. If I can clearly show what the actual ruling is, i MIGHT be able to do this. (though I don't have horns for my miniature raksasha lol)

So far these are all great suggestions, and I am slowly digging through all of them!! :)

[Curmudgeon]

The other problem is the unclear information about how the increase in size effects the bonuses. Some say only what is listed in the magazine are what count, some say you get those in addition to what you get in the the monster manual for size increases.
Those "some" apparently haven't read the magazine, because I don't see anything unclear about it.
If the base creature is of Small or Medium size, it gains one size category, becoming Medium or Large respectively. See Table 4-2: Changes to Statistics by Size in the Monster Manual for changes to the base creature when it gains a size category. The changes in this template are in addition to the changes outlined there.

[killem2]

Those "some" apparently haven't read the magazine, because I don't see anything unclear about it.



I think what the unclear part is, gaining +12 str, +6 con, +3 na, a size increase (to be changed later I am sure with enlarge person) reach, +10 movement:

all for a minor cost of la +1, -1 ac, -2 dex, -2 int.

I suppose it is more of a, are you SURE this is really the case. Anyway basically, it's the broken version. :)

[Togo]

A one level dip into marshal (minature's handbook) allows you one minor aura. The aura 'art of war' allows you to add your charisma to your trip, disarm, bull rush and overrun attacks.

[nedz]

Passive Way Monk varient from UA/SRD gives Combat Expertise and Improved Trip as the first two Monk bonus feats.

Once you have become proficient with martial weapons you can use a Guisarme for reach or natural weapons to trip with.

Obviously Combat Reflexes would also be a good choice of feat.

[animewatcha]

Within the half-mino article, size and type section. it covers the changes to ability stats. So yes, size category changes to stats ( if applicable ) are in addition to those listed in the template. Also, check the actual article for template stats as it says con + 2 while realmshelp says wis + 2 erroneously IIRC.

In another magazine, there were 'monk weapons ( exo. weapon proficiency required to allow for flurrying with them ) ' that have a little less damage than spiked chain, but same bonuses. With a 15' reach instead. Two variantions being for piercing and for blunt.

[Curmudgeon]

I think what the unclear part is, gaining +12 str, +6 con, +3 na, a size increase (to be changed later I am sure with enlarge person) reach, +10 movement:

all for a minor cost of la +1, -1 ac, -2 dex, -2 int.
Don't forget the constant risk of running into squeezing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#squeezing) penalties, breaking through flimsy floors and bridges, and not being able to find accommodations for Large creatures. It's not all advantageous.

[killem2]

Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18 with Tashalatora would work better, or maybe even Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 8/Slayer 10. That way you don't get pesky alignment conflicts, and have good psionics.

Since I think the only use for monk in these builds is the improved trip aspect, what is the best weapon to be slinging around then?

Spiked Chain I assume?

[Aegis013]

Spiked Chain, or Guisarme+flail or other non-reach trip weapon (probably with weapon augmentation crystals of least returning from MIC for quickly swapping) if you can't spare the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.

[killem2]

That monk 2 / pyschic warrior 18 business looks fun, so I am sure I can find a bonus feat in there for EPW.

Kinda looking forward to attempting those 20-30 ft reaches LOL. Won't do much for damage (at least not until deeper into PW) but controlling the battlefield will be something I've not done before.

Is there any point in taking that tashalata feat if I won't be fighting unarmed? Will it matter if I don't scale the monk levels?

[Flickerdart]

Since I think the only use for monk in these builds is the improved trip aspect, what is the best weapon to be slinging around then?

Spiked Chain I assume?
Only whatnow? Tashalatora gives you the fists of a Monk 20!

[Keld Denar]

I'd do Guisarme + UAS. Do most of your heavy lifting with your UAS, but reap the free AoOs with the reach weapon as long as you are proficient with it (PsyWars are). Especially Expanded, you can cover a lot of ground with a reach weapon, and you don't have to worry about close range deadbands because you have your fully powered UAS which you can use even with both hands full.

Tripping is both good and bad because it is only affected by 3 things. Strength, Size, and Misc modifiers. Misc modifiers are few and far between though, mostly the Imp Trip feat and stuff like the Sweeping weapon enhancement. Size is pretty easy to get with Expansion, and Strength comes along with that and some other buffs like Strength of My Enemy. Because BAB isn't integrated into Tripping, things with ridiculous numbers of HD/CR like unintelligent undead and animals/vermin don't often have modifiers much higher than an equal sized optimized PC. Stability bonuses aren't that common (mostly dwarf only), and multiple legs generally aren't associated with things that are Huge+ (but sometimes they are).

[killem2]

Only whatnow? Tashalatora gives you the fists of a Monk 20!

I understand but if I am slinging around a reach weapon, and not my fist, I was just curious if it was worth giving up. Apparently not as it seems :).