Prometheus

[Axolotl]

Has anyone else seen this? I just saw it last night and I have to say I thought it was brilliant, certainly the best thing to come from either Ridley Scott or the Alien franchise for a long time (although that may not be saying much).

I can't really say why I like it without going into spoilers but it really is a great film. I will say that the acting is amazing, obviously Noomi Rapace, Idris Elba and Charlize Theron are all great but Michael Fassbender just steals the whole movie.

[blackspeeker]

I wish I was in an area where it was released early, guess I'll have to wait a week and try really hard to resist the urge to spoil myself.

[Hopeless]

Went to see it today have to agree its very good!

Has a few discrepencies though but after earlier last week trying out that app linked to facebook maybe not as surprised as I should be.

Agree with the choice of who was the best actor, would like to add another comment or two on his character but that would be a spoilerfest in itself!!!

A Question for those who have watched it...
Was it just me or did the opening scene seem to be set on Earth?

[Avilan the Grey]

I am not really interested in it, but at the same time it feels like I have an obligation to, being Swedish and all... I will probably hold out until it is rentable.

[Eloel]

I found it boring actually, almost fell asleep half way through. Sure, the 3 generations of "engineers" aspect was interesting, but it was not handled anywhere near as good as it could've been.

[Ravens_cry]

The preview really turned me off it. The characters seemed utterly boring and one note, and, while hopefully not actually part of the movie, the whole strobe effect lasted way beyond the satiation point.
Also, it's apparently the far future, but everyone still wears pretty much the same clothes we do now? And still referencing Classical mythology?
I've been wrong about films before, Shrek didn't look fun at all, but that's my take from what I saw.

[An Enemy Spy]

The preview really turned me off it. The characters seemed utterly boring and one note, and, while hopefully not actually part of the movie, the whole strobe effect lasted way beyond the satiation point.
Also, it's apparently the far future, but everyone still wears pretty much the same clothes we do now? And still referencing Classical mythology?
I've been wrong about films before, Shrek didn't look fun at all, but that's my take from what I saw.

Classical mythology was written thousands of years ago and people reference it all the time. Why would it suddenly disappear one or two hundred years from now?

[Ravens_cry]

Classical mythology was written thousands of years ago and people reference it all the time. Why would it suddenly disappear one or two hundred years from now?
The preview made it seem like the far future. 200 years is not the far future.
It is long enough you would expect the fashion to change more though.

[An Enemy Spy]

How far in the future does it look? Alien is only in the 22nd century, and this movie takes place before that. Even so, we're talking about ancient mythology. Some of these stories are more than four thousand years old. I don't think it's much of a stretch that people will know very basic mythology in one hundred years.

[Avilan the Grey]

The preview made it seem like the far future. 200 years is not the far future.
It is long enough you would expect the fashion to change more though.

I am not sure how far in the future this was set, but it did start as the prequel to Alien (which is one thing I WOULD have paid to watch in a theatre, no doubt) so at least in the early stages of the script it is not that far away.

[VanBuren]

I am not sure how far in the future this was set, but it did start as the prequel to Alien (which is one thing I WOULD have paid to watch in a theatre, no doubt) so at least in the early stages of the script it is not that far away.

Also, what on earth (heh heh) would that have to do with the kinds of myths we know? It's not like there's an expiration date on the Epic of Gilgamesh.

[Liffguard]

The movie is mostly set in 2092, so not really the far future at all.

Overall it was a pretty decent movie. Some great visuals and atmosphere and excellent performances from everyone but especially Fassbender. My main criticism was that it was a little unfocused and the tension was sometimes diluted by having too many different threats.

[soir8]

I found it boring actually, almost fell asleep half way through. Sure, the 3 generations of "engineers" aspect was interesting, but it was not handled anywhere near as good as it could've been.

I didn't fall asleep, but the person I was sat next to did. It was certainly a very tedious film. Yes, the acting was solid, Michael Fassbender was great, and the film was quite stunning aesthetically, but there never seemed to be any point to what was happening. We get glimpses at characters motivations, and then nothing comes of it. There was the illusion of depth, without any real meaning; Instead of making me ask "why?" and holding me in suspense for the answer, the film simply answers "why what? who cares? here, look at the pretty lights."

[Closet_Skeleton]

Saw it yesturday (eg 2 hours ago :smallwink:).

Guys named Dave should be banned from all of space for ever.

I was wanting to walk out at the Von Daniken rubbish at the start but its really just an excuse to start the thing off and isn't that important thankfully. You can just tell yourself that the fact that these guys lucked out on being right doesn't stop them being idiots who suck at history.

Its also in the trailer so its not really spoilers.

"Let's mention Mayans in the same breath as ancient Babylon because hey, they built pyramids so they're the same right? Who cares that they came millenia later and still exist to this day? It proves this star map is important because its found in unrelated civilisations that had no contact I mean, nobody ever just walked the few hundred miles between Babylon and Egypt..."

Please kill me now...

The only civilisation they mention that 'had no contact' were the Mayans and guess what, that's also the one that doesn't fit the pattern at all...


There was the illusion of depth, without any real meaning; Instead of making me ask "why?" and holding me in suspense for the answer, the film simply answers "why what? who cares? here, look at the pretty lights."

In my opinion it does have some depth, but its basically all questions no answers and those questions are so old that the movie really doesn't add anything to them.

I'd do an analysis here but it involves religion and I'm tired.

Making the space jockeys just big humans in suits (or Zentradi as I may now call them) is kind of dull.

In the end its exactly what's in the trailer. The same stuff we've been getting since 2001: A Space Odyssey and Stargate.

[Das Platyvark]

Better use modern day cloths than come up with some pathetic attempt at 'space fashion' and fail just as miserably as everyone else to try it.
I guess it can be done right, but 99.9% of the time it isn't, and even when it is it becomes zeerust awfully quick.

[Tvtyrant]

Besides, clothing always looks stupid to people not wearing it. Even if they perfectly guessed what clothing people will wear in 90 years, we would think it was stupid/silly.

[Philistine]

I didn't fall asleep, but the person I was sat next to did. It was certainly a very tedious film. Yes, the acting was solid, Michael Fassbender was great, and the film was quite stunning aesthetically, but there never seemed to be any point to what was happening. We get glimpses at characters motivations, and then nothing comes of it. There was the illusion of depth, without any real meaning; Instead of making me ask "why?" and holding me in suspense for the answer, the film simply answers "why what? who cares? here, look at the pretty lights."

You make it sound like Ridley Scott directed it or something. Brilliant cinematographer, really - but as a director, he does tend to struggle with minor niggling details like character, plot, and pacing.

[mangosta71]

I was planning to see it this weekend, but then something popped up in pretty much the only window I had open. So maybe next week.

[CapnRedBeard]

I lubs me some sci-fi...I'll probably go soonish.

[nihil8r]

just saw it in imax. its a good sf story set in the aliens universe, but its not a good horror movie. ie expect a sf story not a horror movie. one guy at the theater hated it and was ranting outside to his friends, which i thought was odd because usually i'm the one doing that. it was like watching myself, and apparently i'm pretty obnoxious.

in short, it was good but not great. it should have been much much better but it wasn't bad, which these days is a blessing.

[nihil8r]

A Question for those who have watched it...
Was it just me or did the opening scene seem to be set on Earth?

that was my impression.

[Hopeless]

that was my impression.

My impression:
The impression I got from the story is that the alien we saw at the start consumed that black gunk and died falling into the waterfall and his dissolving body introduced his dna and that was the eventual basis for human life or possibly all life on Earth if you want to go that far.

I felt this alien was the "Prometheus" and that his people saw what he had done as a vile act or at least whatever portion was part of that base and their "visits" to Earth would have been the cause of the downfall of those civilisations whose only warning was misintrepretated leading to that trip.

I thought that the gunk was intended as a "cure" for the aliens' immortality and its continued use was to deal with what their brethren had inadvertedly created on Earth, still only a novelisation will help answer this that is if they decide to go that far...

[The Succubus]

My impression:
The impression I got from the story is that the alien we saw at the start consumed that black gunk and died falling into the waterfall and his dissolving body introduced his dna and that was the eventual basis for human life or possibly all life on Earth if you want to go that far.

I felt this alien was the "Prometheus" and that his people saw what he had done as a vile act or at least whatever portion was part of that base and their "visits" to Earth would have been the cause of the downfall of those civilisations whose only warning was misintrepretated leading to that trip.

I thought that the gunk was intended as a "cure" for the aliens' immortality and its continued use was to deal with what their brethren had inadvertedly created on Earth, still only a novelisation will help answer this that is if they decide to go that far...


Not too sure about the immortality part but the whole "genesis of life thing" was my take on it as well and it makes quite a nice idea, following the whole "creator" theme running through the film.

Overall I really liked it. Some interesting ideas and enough of a film to stand up on its own. Rather than seeing it as a true prequel to Alien though, it's more of a strong hint about the origin of the Xenomorph species. If you go into it expecting facehuggers and black hissing death machines, you will be disappointed.

[TSGames]

Just saw it a few hours ago and I thought it was OK. That said, it's probably the best movie that'll be out all summer: worth watching once in theaters.

Some criticism, good and bad:

*Excellent cinematography! During the openening of the movie, my friend and I werre both wondering from where they got the absolutely beautiful scenery shots. The rest of the movie does not disappoint on this front either, it is filled with very well constructed scenes and camera shots that range from stunning to horrifying to ominous and do a very good job establishing the tone of the movie. That being said...

*There was no emotional investment in the characters. Part of what made the Aliens series so good was the emotional investment and subsequent attachment to the characters. Everyone remembers Ripley saving the little girl, trying to comfort her amongst the desolate ruins of her home town/outpost. Scenes like that help to develop characters so that they do not seem mere one-dimensional, cardboard stereotypes, and they help create emotional investment in characters by showing a compassionate, human side that makes us want them to suceed, want to believe that the movie universe would be truly diminished without them: in essence, it makes us care if the character lives or dies. The closest that we have to that in this movie is emergency surgery. None of the characters are fleshed out beyond overly simpllified motives that (almost without exception) come across as childishly simple i.e. "I'm here for money" or "I want to meet them". Because the characters are not well fleshed out and we have no emotionally gripping scenes to make us want to pull for the characters it's difficult to remember the characters and their names, let alone care if they live or die. This was so ubiquitous that I often found myself watching the plot unfold with it's managerie of horrorrs unleashed upon the characters and my reaction was, "Well, sucks for.... uh....hrm... uh.....that guy". By the end of the movie, I had no reason to care about any of the characters or the horrible fates that would/could/did befall them. It was almost as if the director was counting on me to be emotionally invested in them just because they are humans in space, an expectation which may have worked out about half a century ago, but is a little ridiculous given the amount of evil/apathetic/douchebag humans we've seen in space movies, and this movie had enough of those on its own. The writers/director seem to think that arbitrarly revealing facts about characters is charaacter developement, regardless of if it is remotely relatable or if it makes the character just appear to be more of the douche that you alreadyknew they were i.e. what's her name being barrenandthe scene with blonde bee-otch where we find out that the CEO is her father and she wants him to accept his death...It seemed like that was suppossed to be a plot twist or something, but it really only had me thinking, "who cares?". It added nothing to character/plot/movie at all; it just confirmed that blondie was a douche and apparantly the daughter of the CEO, which may have mattered if we had either A) emotional investment in the characters, or B)non-simplistic motives for characters that would be in any way impacted by this revelation. Incidentally, we had neither. The characters were the movie's weakest point by a wide margin and if the movie had been stronger on this point it could have been a great movie.

*The relation to the aliens series comes across as forced. We see a lot of alien-esque creatures throughout the movie, and the movie does a very good job of capturing the horror and the "Oh ****, what just happened? RUN, *****, RUN!" feeling of the Aliens series, but it doesn't come together terribly well on the details. Througout the movie we see familiar sights from the Aliens series, and some of them are incorporated into the movie decently, but most just seem to be there as an obvious nod to the Aliens series. Consequently, the movie starts to get almost a little annoying with how so much is just thrown in for little/no apparant reason. It's almost as if the movie were screaming, "I'm part of Aliens too! Watch me! Waaaaaatch MMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEE!" Which it will be screaming, all the way to the sequel. I digress, that this poor incorporation of iconic items and sets from Aliens could simply be due to:

*Fridge logic. The movie has a ton of it. Then again, you're watching a modern sci-fi movie, what do you excpect?

Overall still a decent movie, about what I expected, definitely worth seeing once in theater. If they had made some changes, it could have been a great movie; I'll hold out hope for the sequel, but I won't hold my breath.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Rather than seeing it as a true prequel to Alien though, it's more of a strong hint about the origin of the Xenomorph species. If you go into it expecting facehuggers and black hissing death machines, you will be disappointed.

The whole

Xenomorphs are just a bioweapon and that ship was some kind of long range bomber

idea has been around for a long time and I believe appeared in some tie in novels.

[Psyren]

I liked it. But man oh man, I went in expecting gorn and the damn thing delivered.

I have never seen that many stupid scientists in one place before. Even the Umbrella guys have more sense than that bunch.

I also like what is possibly the most interesting, and most often overlooked aspect of the Alien mythos - i.e. the fact that we created AI, and what that means for our understanding of the human condition. This was the first "Alien movie" that really focused on that and made it a major plot point, I think.

[Agent 451]

*The relation to the aliens series comes across as forced.

Thank you! The entire extended scene when the space jockey hops into the control seat? Yeah, enough said.

Don't get me wrong, it was a pretty decent movie, much better than that "Dances with Smurfs" movie that Cameron put out a bit ago...

[Gnoman]

Personally, I thought it was garbage. Going into it with zero expectations (I tune out commercials, so the spaceship on the poster was literally the only thing I knew about it), I was still dissapointed. Faux-philosphical nonsense, no explanation for the the simplest of actions, and an exceptionally stupid cast of characters simply killed the movie.

[Psyren]

Any guesses on what exactly David said to the survivor? Before he went ape-**** I mean and tried to kill the droid and all the humans? I have a feeling it wasn't what Weiland wanted him to say.

[Gnoman]

Any guesses on what exactly David said to the survivor? Before he went ape-**** I mean and tried to kill the droid and all the humans? I have a feeling it wasn't what Weiland wanted him to say.

Considering that

The ship's mission was the extermination of the human race, I don't think it mattered.

[Agent 451]

I bet it would be something along the lines of "Your children have come to kill you," based on that conversation he had with Shaw about all children hating/wanting to kill their parents

[Psyren]

^ Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like that.

Anyway,
I'm not really looking forward to the wacky adventures of Not-Ripley and Aryan Data. Maybe they should tie it up with a graphic novel or something, but I doubt they could squeeze another movie out of that butcher's yard they left behind.

[Agent 451]

Personally I'd identify him as being closer to Lore:smalltongue:

And with regards to what really bugged me about the movie: Around half the crew were supposed to be scientists. Who were the people that went out and did stupid stuff Like the biologist poking at the little arm breaker?

I am so sick to death of sci fi and horror movies using the "Scientists doing uncharacteristically stupid things" in order to advance the plot, it reeks of incompetent writers.

[thegurullamen]

Spoony has a lot to say on the movie (about an hour fourteen worth). In short, he notes it's stupider than Twilight and suggests "Avoid it at all costs." Considering the points he brings up, it's hard for me not to agree with him. Alien, a great film, involved a lot of pragmatism on the parts of its cast, so, if Spoony's assessment can be believed, a movie populated with the stupidest scientists ever committed to film and plot twists that could have been avoided by even an ounce of thought by the planners of the mission or the mission leads is about as far from that as you can get.

http://spoonyexperiment.com/2012/06/08/vlog-6-8-12-prometheus/

[Agent 451]

Sorry, but this Spoony lost all credibility stating it was stupider than Twilight :smallmad: Although apart from that, from what I've watched, they are spot on.

And as for the stupidest scientists, yeah, I completely agree, but it's not a failing of only this movie.

[Scowling Dragon]

Sorry, but this Spoony lost all credibility stating it was stupider than Twilight :smallmad:

Tell me thats sarcasm.

Wow Im saddened to find this out. (About prometheus)

[TSGames]

Any guesses on what exactly David said to the survivor? Before he went ape-**** I mean and tried to kill the droid and all the humans? I have a feeling it wasn't what Weiland wanted him to say.

Pretty sure he was just translating. Also: does it really matter?

[DeusMortuusEst]

Watched it yesterday, certainly a decent sci-fi, but it is riddled with plot holes and strange character behavior. Not Alien, but ok, 3/5.

And now for some spoilered questions (as in pretty massive spoilers, so don't open unless you've seen the movie):
In the original Alien, the space jockey is found in his seat, and in the end of this movie, the only surviving 'Creator' is killed by the giant semi-facehugger, and since this ship contained urns, and not Xenomorph eggs, I'm guessing that the Alien crew found another ship, thoughts?

Further, the thing we see bursting out from the Creator in the end was, quite obviously, not a Xenomorph. My theory is that either it was a different bio-weapon, quite clearly related to the Xenos, or that the Xenos develop different depending on what genetic material they gain access to and in what order.

Here we have proto-larva (from the urn) -> human -> Creator, which caused the huge facehugger, and then the (in my opinion) much too human-like Xeno-wannabe.

In Alien, we have either proto-larva (which we never see, nor do we see any urns) -> space jockey (creating a queen, laying eggs) -> human, or -> eggs -> human.


Thoughts?

[Tvtyrant]

Pretty sure he was just translating. Also: does it really matter?

"We are here to kill you."

[Agent 451]

Tell me thats sarcasm.

No, it's not. Prometheus wasn't the greatest movie ever made, but it is in no way stupider than Twilight.

Although losing all cred was a bit of a stretch, they had a lot of salient points which mirrored exactly what annoyed the hell out of me with regards to this movie.

[Scowling Dragon]

Thats what I meant. Its annoying when people are like "You said this- all your other good points are invalid now".

[Agent 451]

Yeah, I agree with you there. I made the mistake of stating that without watching the whole thing, due to the whole "stupider than Twilight" rage that overcame me.

[TSGames]

Yeah, I agree with you there. I made the mistake of stating that without watching the whole thing, due to the whole "stupider than Twilight" rage that overcame me.

Not more stupid than twilight, but it did have HI-lariously stupid aspects. i.e. every door on the ship has a digital keypad, but at no point is it ever used: everytime someone wants to go through a door they just push one button and it opens. Secuirty at its finest.

[Agent 451]

Or the geologist with the fancy scanning drones (which he had a wrist computer for if I recall) getting totally lost, even though he was in direct communication with the captain who had a map of not only the entire (to that point) mapped structure, but also the Geologist's suit locator beacon? :smalltongue:

[thegurullamen]

Yeah, I agree with you there. I made the mistake of stating that without watching the whole thing, due to the whole "stupider than Twilight" rage that overcame me.

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that part--he said that the surgery machine only working on men and then making an impromptu cesarian anyway (and the way it did it) was stupider than the vampire baby delivery in...whatever the newest Twilight movie was. Not that the movie in general was stupider.

He was angrier at this movie than any of the Twilight films however, but that's probably due to higher expectations.

[Agent 451]

No worries, it made me watch something new. And as critique of all the bad/stupid/completely-against-all-survival-instict things within the movie, it was quite good :smalltongue:

I think movie makers should just forego any sort of miraculous, impossible births.

[Gnoman]

Further, the thing we see bursting out from the Creator in the end was, quite obviously, not a Xenomorph. My theory is that either it was a different bio-weapon, quite clearly related to the Xenos, or that the Xenos develop different depending on what genetic material they gain access to and in what order.




First, this is canon. The xenomorph species develops differently depending on the host species. Second, it was close enough to the others that it may be a graphical dissonance, and intended to be the same.

[TSGames]

First, this is canon. The xenomorph species develops differently depending on the host species. Second, it was close enough to the others that it may be a graphical dissonance, and intended to be the same.

Yes, you nailed it.

[DeusMortuusEst]

First, this is canon. The xenomorph species develops differently depending on the host species. Second, it was close enough to the others that it may be a graphical dissonance, and intended to be the same.

I don't think that it was a graphics miss, it was far too different for that, the head and arms were the wrong shape, and the mouth didn't look like a Xeno...

[Agent 451]

I don't think that it was a graphics miss, it was far too different for that, the head and arms were the wrong shape, and the mouth didn't look like a Xeno...

I don't recall it having a tail, either.

[Gnoman]

I don't think that it was a graphics miss, it was far too different for that, the head and arms were the wrong shape, and the mouth didn't look like a Xeno...

This is way I said "may". The overall plan was pretty close, but there were enough differences that it could go either way. Sadly, that was my favorite scene in the movie. On an unrelated note, pretty much every person leaving the theater last night could be overheard asking questions like "Why did the robot poison the guy?", "How did she get 'pregnant'?" or "Why were they too dumb to run sideways?"

[Agent 451]

I think that scene with David spiking the booze he gave to Charlie was one of the best scenes in the movie, regardless of what the intent of David's action was.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'd put any descrepencies about the xenomorphs down to

same weapon series, differant mark/version.

The 'aliens change depending on the host' doesn't work in this case because the face huggers were always the same despite producing dogaliens, predaliens or regular aliens while here they were differant straight from the egg.

[DeusMortuusEst]

I'd put any descrepencies about the xenomorphs down to

same weapon series, differant mark/version.

The 'aliens change depending on the host' doesn't work in this case because the face huggers were always the same despite producing dogaliens, predaliens or regular aliens while here they were differant straight from the egg.

Yea, the facehugger thingy at the end looked very related to the classical 'hugger, but they were clearly not the same thing. On another note, that might be the biggest plot hole in the movie according to me: How in the nine hells did it grow so big inside that room without anything to feed on? It's not like it took a huge bite out of Noomi (can't remember the character name) before she looked it in.

[TSGames]

Yea, the facehugger thingy at the end looked very related to the classical 'hugger, but they were clearly not the same thing. On another note, that might be the biggest plot hole in the movie according to me: How in the nine hells did it grow so big inside that room without anything to feed on? It's not like it took a huge bite out of Noomi (can't remember the character name) before she looked it in.

I asked the same thing... unless it eats metal or something, there's just no way. But this is only one poorly thought out scene among many in the movie; hardly worth nitpicking without picking the whole movie apart.

[Seraph]

Yea, the facehugger thingy at the end looked very related to the classical 'hugger, but they were clearly not the same thing. On another note, that might be the biggest plot hole in the movie according to me: How in the nine hells did it grow so big inside that room without anything to feed on? It's not like it took a huge bite out of Noomi (can't remember the character name) before she looked it in.

Yeah, it's almost as ridiculous as a small larvae the size of a snake growing into a human sized biped in a matter of hours!

oh wait.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I asked the same thing... unless it eats metal or something, there's just no way. But this is only one poorly thought out scene among many in the movie; hardly worth nitpicking without picking the whole movie apart.

I had the same problem, but I just assumed that it had eaten something. There's nothing to say there wasn't food in there. It was a living quarters.

Besides, its not like a dominant form of life on our planet can build its body out of carbon from the air.

I also hated "yeah, super strong mutant geologist zombies are a thing now, just ignore it, it won't be mentioned again or explained or anything".

[Derthric]

A space Wizard did it.....


So I saw this movie last night.......did not like.

This movie was all over the place, is it trying to be some high concept "meeting god movie" or a turn off your brain Horror movie? It could not make up its mind and there were about 4 or 5 useless subplots. Things like;

David being all created will always turn on their creators *shakes fist*
The Old man wanting to be saved
Charlize Theron's Daddy issues
The wacky adventures of the Geologist and the Biologist

In the end there was little to nothing about this film I enjoyed, it oscillated between pretentious and scare tactics to rapidly to have grounding in either one.

And for god's sake Charlize run sideways the lady that must be low on blood figured that out. *facepalm*

[Closet_Skeleton]

And for god's sake Charlize run sideways the lady that must be low on blood figured that out. *facepalm*

She worked it out in the end when she fell over and started rolling rather than running, but that was still so stupid. Just the characters acting idiots so the survivor can get her 'god saved you through a miracle after all' moment.


trying to be some high concept "meeting god movie"

Not 100% sure you're using the term 'high concept movie' correctly. High concept does not mean 'cerebrally exploring ideas'. It means 'take a pitch and make a movie that focuses on that concept rather than on other things like characterisation, depth or drama". You can have deep high concept movies (eg The Truman Show) but the original meaning was to describe spectacle heavy blockbusters aimed at the lowest common denominator like Speed (or Jaws, but since the idea of a high concept movie was created as a way of replicating Jaws, Jaws itself isn't as good an example as some people who use it think).

Prometheus succeeds in being high concept pretty well. Just seems to be more 'people go into space and encounter biological weirdness' rather than 'lets find god just like in that Star Trek movie that makes this one look like Shakespeare'.

[Ravens_cry]

Besides, clothing always looks stupid to people not wearing it. Even if they perfectly guessed what clothing people will wear in 90 years, we would think it was stupid/silly.
I guess it would be distracting, but the fact it's modern clothes is *also* distracting.
Of course, sometimes the future fashion ideas presented would be just hideous no matter the era.

[Hopeless]

I figure there must have been supplies of some kind in that medbay, what I'm wondering is given she gave order for the receptacle to be sterilized, how did that creature even survive to get outside of that pod?!

Did we account for every member of the crew?

Archaeologist and her buddy who was charcoaled, the geologist who resembled a very bad Simon Pegg impersonating, the biologist who up to that point actually had a survival instinct but like his friend absolutely no sense of direction nor memory of what route they took to get there...
The captain and his two bridge crew, David, his "father", the medic and the bodyguard as well as the daughter... thats 12.
That leaves 5 more, the first one slain by the mutant geologist swiftly followed by his friend and the one thrown off the truck before being run over by the one who actually got it working... that still leaves two unaccounted for, so were they eaten offscreen by the offspring when they fled inside the lifepod and walked inside the medbay and shut the door behind them?

[Closet_Skeleton]

I figure there must have been supplies of some kind in that medbay, what I'm wondering is given she gave order for the receptacle to be sterilized, how did that creature even survive to get outside of that pod?!


Presumably the sterilization proceedure wasn't calibrated for 'weird'.

[TSGames]

A space Wizard did it.....


So I saw this movie last night.......did not like.

This movie was all over the place, is it trying to be some high concept "meeting god movie" or a turn off your brain Horror movie? It could not make up its mind and there were about 4 or 5 useless subplots. Things like;

David being all created will always turn on their creators *shakes fist*
The Old man wanting to be saved
Charlize Theron's Daddy issues
The wacky adventures of the Geologist and the Biologist

In the end there was little to nothing about this film I enjoyed, it oscillated between pretentious and scare tactics to rapidly to have grounding in either one.

And for god's sake Charlize run sideways the lady that must be low on blood figured that out. *facepalm*
As for the subplots: introducing some of them was just bad writing, but I think the rest were there to try to make some kind of a point. The writers seemed to want to indicate that when you're meeting with a higher being, what YOU want doesn't really matter, and they indicate this by sweeping aside several subplots and showing that even our robot friend is quite inferior, as all his goals are unmade in the split second it takes to rip his head off.

On an unrelated note, it only now ocurrs to me, but I seem to recall the geo-probe that led to the bridge had gone off into some long tunnel that was very far away from the main structure. Yet, apparently the ship was right below the main structure. I could be wrong on this point, but if I am not, it is an easy detail to get right, one which they should not have screwed up.

[Scowling Dragon]

I had the same problem, but I just assumed that it had eaten something. There's nothing to say there wasn't food in there. It was a living quarters.

Besides, its not like a dominant form of life on our planet can build its body out of carbon from the air.

I also hated "yeah, super strong mutant geologist zombies are a thing now, just ignore it, it won't be mentioned again or explained or anything".


Actualy In the first movie there was a scene about the alien eating the supplies on the ship to grow.

Also: Photosynthesis DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!:smallwink:

[ThePhantasm]

Finally saw it... WOW I loved it! Great film. Don't quite know where to begin, but here's a list of some things I noticed:

The film was more connected to the Alien franchise than might first appear. Ellie's name is reminiscent of Ellen (Ripley). The creature she gives birth to is clearly a Giant Facehugger. And of course, there was the scene at the end...

Great suspense. REAL suspense, not an over-reliance on jump scares etc. Real, cold horror. While this wasn't a straight up horror movie, there were enough scenes that had me literally on the edge of my seat in the theatre. And that hasn't happened for a long time for any movie, horror or not. Scott knows how to build that slow dread.

Loved the well fleshed out characters.

Start of a new franchise? I hope so!

[Scowling Dragon]

Ellie's name is reminiscent of Ellen (Ripley).

This had always bugged me about the later movies. That they try to make another ripley without making a believable and interesting female protagonist (The clone ripley was just a mary sue bitch).

[Tvtyrant]

I watched the movie on Friday, and I enjoyed it. However, it was deeeeeeply flawed.

Things I liked!
People dying horrifically! It's an alien movie, and they did a good job in making it squicky without getting into the uncomfortable level. Most of the people died rather quickly too, which was a bonus. I'm okay with face melting, but torture always makes me uncomfortable.

Fan-freaking-tastic graphics. Everything was clear and shiny, or dark an d spooky. No cardboard sets, no stupid primitive pyramids just to make an ancient motiff. The ancestral race managed to look both human and divine, which was impressive. Most of the monsters were spongy and gross, which is their job. The adult form at the end was stupid looking, but all of the tentacle creatures were slimy, creepy, and had awesome pulsating mouth parts.

It was suspenseful without falling into the "person slowly turns corner with the thing behind/above/inside them" trope everyone seems to love these days.

Flaws
Too many characters. We have a bunch of people who are simply cardboard cutout stereotypes, who are then butchered. It actually reminded me of The Huntsman in that regard; people get killed off as soon as they are introduced, and there are so many casualties it is hard to care about any of them. "Oh look, the geologist who we were supposed to dislike died." yawn.

Too many subplots. A good subplot has to be as compelling as the main plot, otherwise its just baggage. If we have a jerk-robot running around infecting people, he should be as compelling as the aliens. Maybe more so, since he has less stage time. They did a great job with the robot in the early scenes, but then he just devolves into being an unnecessary antagonist (and then a Deux ex machina). The old man could have been removed entirely with no loss, and the Vickers lady could have been given an actual motive (like, I don't know, plundering the obviously advanced alien technology for her corporation?)

The protagonist was flat. Really, really flat. "I can't have children, I love my husband, and I have a badly articulated crisis of faith that I solve through a single symbolic gesture!" Yeah, no. Give me someone with something interesting to say. The robot maybe, or Vickers, or even... Those are really the only people in this movie, so I'll drop it at that (I still think she was a robot too BTW).

Finally, it was kinda thematically unclear. The general theme of the movie was undoubtedly the relationship between children and their parents, with the two children of the corporate owner hating him, him treating them like garbage, everyone trying to find this race that made us and then decided to hate us, the protagonist not being able to have children, etc. But it is never articulated exactly what this relationship was supposed to mean, and we get handed a false aesop about Faith at the end.

That's about how I felt about it.

[Seraph]

relevant, spoilers, etc (http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html#cutid1).

[Hopeless]

There is only one way we can resolve this...

Time to choose a suitable science fiction rpg and run it with a group of players!:smallbiggrin:

Come on you know they won't be expecting that!!!:smallwink:

Now that will iron out any of the problems with this movie, admittedly they'll hardly be able to match Fassbender's David:smallfrown: but if you do post your report here so we can compare and make notes on what else could have been done to make this better!:smalltongue:

[The Succubus]

An Alien RPG?

.....

I think my brain just orgasmed.

[Spinoza]

Not more stupid than twilight, but it did have HI-lariously stupid aspects. i.e. every door on the ship has a digital keypad, but at no point is it ever used: everytime someone wants to go through a door they just push one button and it opens. Secuirty at its finest.

What you don't think the trend of people setting up significant security and then everyone thinking it’s too laborious to use is going to continue for the next 80 years. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Agent 451]

The crew of Prometheus would have watched enough Star Trek to know that any alien that attempted to use their consoles would not be hindered by such silly things as never having encountering the language or not knowing how to instantly bypass human tech. :smalltongue:

[TSGames]

What you don't think the trend of people setting up significant security and then everyone thinking it’s too laborious to use is going to continue for the next 80 years. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
spoillered for minor spoilers(?), why not
For a ship that has at least one big secret to hide(THE CEO!) and that also has "quarantine" proceedures, yes. But then again, this is the same ship that contained both the previous and current head of the company, leaving the company back on Earth to be run by who knows, doing who knows what, because the current heads of the company don't seem to care.

So yeah, maybe they would competely disregard security, it makes as much sense as every other decision that we see the company make.

[Scowling Dragon]

The crew of Prometheus would have watched enough Star Trek to know that any alien that attempted to use their consoles would not be hindered by such silly things as never having encountering the language or not knowing how to instantly bypass human tech. :smalltongue:

But but but....thier 100% human.:smalltongue:

[Agent 451]

Well, I suppose...heh on that line of thinking, it's not like the majority of the major powers in the Alpha and Beta quadrants weren't initially seeded by an advanced intelligence either (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Chase_(episode)). Those guys just did it...better, and slightly more Darwinian.

Edit. And, you know, don't actually WANT to wipe out all sentient life that they created (regardless of the fact that they are probably long dead).

[Scowling Dragon]

I know right?

Like we all know, 100% human = giant gray black spewing thingy.

[Agent 451]

100% human = giant gray black spewing thingy.

Sorry, feeling pretty dense today. What exactly were you referring to?

[Emmerask]

Too many very very much too stupid characters made this movie very much unwatchable for me. A turd with nice visuals would be my summery of the movie.

P.s.: hopefully in the sequels (which will come) we learn why earth is apparently now populated with morons only, maybe if we get a satisfactory answer to that I may be able to enjoy the movie...

[Agent 451]

P.s.: hopefully in the sequels (which will come) we learn why earth is apparently now populated with morons only

Ah, an answer to life's greatest question!

[TSGames]

Too many very very much too stupid characters made this movie very much unwatchable for me. A turd with nice visuals would be my summery of the movie.

P.s.: hopefully in the sequels (which will come) we learn why earth is apparently now populated with morons only, maybe if we get a satisfactory answer to that I may be able to enjoy the movie...

You have to watch the prequel (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/) for that answer.

[Callos_DeTerran]

spoillered for minor spoilers(?), why not
For a ship that has at least one big secret to hide(THE CEO!) and that also has "quarantine" proceedures, yes. But then again, this is the same ship that contained both the previous and current head of the company, leaving the company back on Earth to be run by who knows, doing who knows what, because the current heads of the company don't seem to care.

So yeah, maybe they would competely disregard security, it makes as much sense as every other decision that we see the company make.

Vickers mentions that if she had remained at home then she'd have spent the remainder of her life arguing and fighting in the boardroom while Weyland traveled off into the stars, the implication being that Weyland disproved of her to the point he didn't even make her his legal heir to his corporation. Which means her coming along is negligible to the future of the company because she's not the current or future head of the company. Instead, she's obviously using this time to try and convince Weyland to give up on his insane quest to defy death, accept his demise, and possibly to give her Weyland Corporations since she now has all the time in the world to talk to him by herself...except for David, cue threatening to kill him because he gets a lot more face time with Weyland and, after that remark about calling David the son he never had, the niggling fear Weyland might leave the company to a robot.

And for the record, Vickers (the only actual member of Weyland ((the rest were employees recruited for this mission)) ), actually did care about security and so on.....It just didn't get her anywhere in the end.

[Eldan]

Personally I'd identify him as being closer to Lore:smalltongue:

And with regards to what really bugged me about the movie: Around half the crew were supposed to be scientists. Who were the people that went out and did stupid stuff Like the biologist poking at the little arm breaker?

I am so sick to death of sci fi and horror movies using the "Scientists doing uncharacteristically stupid things" in order to advance the plot, it reeks of incompetent writers.

Heh. As a field biologist with a good interest in zoology, I really felt for that character. His giant grin when he sees the alien snake reptile monster is so infectious. Exactly the grin we have when we see a new species of flesh eating beetle or poisonous snake or giant tarantula.

But yeah. Rule 1 of exploration: don't poke it. We had lectures about that.


I've just come back from seeing it in IMAX-3D. I think that was just about spectacular enough to not make me care about the plot holes.


Unrelated: did anyone else think the Prometheus looked a lot like Serenity? I smell cross-over material.

[hamlet]

Unrelated: did anyone else think the Prometheus looked a lot like Serenity? I smell cross-over material.

Do not say such things lest a Hollywood corporate executive should overhear you.

The resulting monstrosity of a movie would surely unmake Creation.

[Eldan]

Why? They could hire Joss Whedon to direct the next Prometheus movie, and...

OKay, I can't say that with a straight face. :smalltongue:

I could sort of remotely see it, actually. There was apparently an abandoned plot for an Alien movie where the Xenomorphs reach Earth. That causes humanity to abandon the planet and go to a new system terraformed by Weyland, who then conveniently rename themselves Blue Sun for marketing reasons.

But anyway. I thought it had sort of a similar shape. Not so much now that I'm comparing pictures online, but the cockpit and moving thrusters on the side gave me that impression.

[Yora]

I hadn't had much hope from the trailers and now I don't even want to watch it. Maybe for 5€ in the bargain bin, just to see what they did with the effects.

Though it did entertain me even without seeing it, because other people saw it.
As one reviwer put it "They might as well had titled this move "Dude, don't touch that!"."

[ThePhantasm]

P.s.: hopefully in the sequels (which will come) we learn why earth is apparently now populated with morons only

Trust me, that aspect of the movie is very realistic.

[TSGames]

Vickers mentions that if she had remained at home then she'd have spent the remainder of her life arguing and fighting in the boardroom while Weyland traveled off into the stars, the implication being that Weyland disproved of her to the point he didn't even make her his legal heir to his corporation. Which means her coming along is negligible to the future of the company because she's not the current or future head of the company. Instead, she's obviously using this time to try and convince Weyland to give up on his insane quest to defy death, accept his demise, and possibly to give her Weyland Corporations since she now has all the time in the world to talk to him by herself...except for David, cue threatening to kill him because he gets a lot more face time with Weyland and, after that remark about calling David the son he never had, the niggling fear Weyland might leave the company to a robot.

And for the record, Vickers (the only actual member of Weyland ((the rest were employees recruited for this mission)) ), actually did care about security and so on.....It just didn't get her anywhere in the end.


That's an interesting way of looking at it, but not a practical one. Her coming on the trip means she has abandoned her significant stake in the company for the sole reason that you can't hold a seat on a board of directors for very long, when you're gone for four+ years and will be asleep for most of it. By leaving, both her and her father will have lost whatever power they had in the company, and will be lucky if even a superficial investment remains. Even if the company was filled with the most benevolent businessmen the galaxy has ever known, power gaps must be filled and vacancies simply can't exist for periods of years.

I could almost buy that she went out of some filial sense of duty rather than pragmatism, but that's clearly not the case since, like David, she apparently wanted her father to die.

As for security: Blondie has one scene with a flamethrower, not sure how that indicates an emphasis on security. I guess she also has that scene when she's telling the scientists to shut the hell up and stop asking questions. Even putting these together, it's a large stretch to say that she gave a rat's ass about security. She didn't want creepy alien virus on the ship and she didn't want people to know that her father was on board, but she couldn't be bothered to have set any locks or make sure the crew was trained for quarantine proceedures. Being paranoid and being concerned with security are not the same thing(though they do compliment each other nicely). Blondie was clearly paranoid, but in the best case scenario she just wasn't smart enough to give half a fart about security.

[Callos_DeTerran]

That's an interesting way of looking at it, but not a practical one. Her coming on the trip means she has abandoned her significant stake in the company for the sole reason that you can't hold a seat on a board of directors for very long, when you're gone for four+ years and will be asleep for most of it. By leaving, both her and her father will have lost whatever power they had in the company, and will be lucky if even a superficial investment remains. Even if the company was filled with the most benevolent businessmen the galaxy has ever known, power gaps must be filled and vacancies simply can't exist for periods of years.

I could almost buy that she went out of some filial sense of duty rather than pragmatism, but that's clearly not the case since, like David, she apparently wanted her father to die.

As for security: Blondie has one scene with a flamethrower, not sure how that indicates an emphasis on security. I guess she also has that scene when she's telling the scientists to shut the hell up and stop asking questions. Even putting these together, it's a large stretch to say that she gave a rat's ass about security. She didn't want creepy alien virus on the ship and she didn't want people to know that her father was on board, but she couldn't be bothered to have set any locks or make sure the crew was trained for quarantine proceedures. Being paranoid and being concerned with security are not the same thing(though they do compliment each other nicely). Blondie was clearly paranoid, but in the best case scenario she just wasn't smart enough to give half a fart about security.


At this point in time we don't know how wide-spread the technology is that David used to peer into people's minds while they were in stasis, or what other uses it might have. It's possible that Vickers and Weyland both were able to transmit their thoughts back to Earth while they were in stasis and thus manage their positions...however this is highly unlikely considering Vickers' statement that she'd be stuck arguing in a boardroom everyday while Weyland was gone. If Weyland could still communicate with his company then that line makes little to no sense. More importantly, I don't think the Aliens-verse has cross-system communications. So...possible but highly, highly, highly unlikely.

What's far more likely is that she gave control of her stake in the company to someone that she trusted to act in her stead until she returned and probably hoped they'd find something profitable on their trip that the revelation of which would allow her to assume command of the company. Weyland? Weyland just didn't give a damn. He was planning on becoming immortal, remember? He can make a new company with that new lease on time. 'sides, the trip was only meant to be 4 years give or take the time to explore the Engineers.

On Security: She flamethrow'd Halloway when he was infected, ordered the ship locked up tight when the silicon storm was coming (despite the fact people were still outside, she wasn't risking the ship), flat out told the scientists that they were under her command (and not to ask questions), and was the only person seen and mentioned to constantly check on the two lost scientists throughout the night...until the captain waylaid her anyway. There's also the fact that someone ordered Shaw put into stasis when her proto-face-hugger child was discovered until it could be safely handled back on earth...this could have been David, but I doubt he cared enough about Shaw to order it to happen and the people sent were in hazmat suits. And I didn't say she was good at security...she's an executive after all, I just said she cared and tried.

[Psyren]

Can we just spoil the thread? I feel like the majority of folks in here have either watched the movie, or opened our spoiler boxes and no longer care to.


At this point in time we don't know how wide-spread the technology is that David used to peer into people's minds while they were in stasis, or what other uses it might have. It's possible that Vickers and Weyland both were able to transmit their thoughts back to Earth while they were in stasis and thus manage their positions...however this is highly unlikely considering Vickers' statement that she'd be stuck arguing in a boardroom everyday while Weyland was gone. If Weyland could still communicate with his company then that line makes little to no sense. More importantly, I don't think the Aliens-verse has cross-system communications. So...possible but highly, highly, highly unlikely.

What's far more likely is that she gave control of her stake in the company to someone that she trusted to act in her stead until she returned and probably hoped they'd find something profitable on their trip that the revelation of which would allow her to assume command of the company. Weyland? Weyland just didn't give a damn. He was planning on becoming immortal, remember? He can make a new company with that new lease on time. 'sides, the trip was only meant to be 4 years give or take the time to explore the Engineers.

On Security: She flamethrow'd Halloway when he was infected, ordered the ship locked up tight when the silicon storm was coming (despite the fact people were still outside, she wasn't risking the ship), flat out told the scientists that they were under her command (and not to ask questions), and was the only person seen and mentioned to constantly check on the two lost scientists throughout the night...until the captain waylaid her anyway. There's also the fact that someone ordered Shaw put into stasis when her proto-face-hugger child was discovered until it could be safely handled back on earth...this could have been David, but I doubt he cared enough about Shaw to order it to happen and the people sent were in hazmat suits. And I didn't say she was good at security...she's an executive after all, I just said she cared and tried.

I definitely agree with this. Charlize aka Vickers was easily the most genre-savvy human on that ship. Certainly the least idiotic.

Though pulling your captain away from his post for a very out-of-character romp in the sheets during a crisis is pretty dumb in itself. At least put someone else watching the screens while you get your jollies, woman.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Can we just spoil the thread? I feel like the majority of folks in here have either watched the movie, or opened our spoiler boxes and no longer care to.



I definitely agree with this. Charlize aka Vickers was easily the most genre-savvy human on that ship. Certainly the least idiotic.

Though pulling your captain away from his post for a very out-of-character romp in the sheets during a crisis is pretty dumb in itself. At least put someone else watching the screens while you get your jollies, woman.

But he asked if she was a robot! Such a question couldn't be allowed to linger in the captain's mind obviously...Although...

She did tell him to meet her in her quarters in ten minutes, it could be that she thought he would get someone else to watch the screens, what with him being the captain and all and the ten minute period was time for him to find his stand-in.

[Chen]

She did tell him to meet her in her quarters in ten minutes, it could be that she thought he would get someone else to watch the screens, what with him being the captain and all and the ten minute period was time for him to find his stand-in.

Well they later said that they lost contact during the night, so presumably SOMEONE was keeping track. Its not like the guys in the dome were calling back to the ship before they played with the killer alien thing anyway. Of course the ship couldn't have sent someone to help anyway.

[Psyren]

She did tell him to meet her in her quarters in ten minutes, it could be that she thought he would get someone else to watch the screens, what with him being the captain and all and the ten minute period was time for him to find his stand-in.

It's ultimately her responsibility though, even if it is really his job. He reports to her, and nobody watching the screens means the entire ship is at risk.

And yeah, I really don't get how his one-liner was such an aphrodisiac - though I suppose she technically hadn't gotten any in 2 years...

[TSGames]

And I didn't say she was good at security..

I'm glad we could agree.

[Jerthanis]

I mostly hated how the black goop basically did whatever it needed to to further the plot. Sometimes it made humanity (or all life on earth, or something), sometimes it made worms into arm-breaking snakes, sometimes it made people rage-zombies, sometimes it made them get magic alien-semen, sometimes it didn't do anything.

Also, you'd think with a trillion dollar investment into the mission they could've afforded some team-building exercises beforehand. Nope, instead they've got to meet for the first time 3 quadrillion miles from earth and they have no backup specialists in any field in case any of them died in cryostasis or suffered some accident that prevented them from doing their work.

Also, if anyone's had surgery, you know a 1-2 inch incision and minimal internal disruption will give you weeks of downtime and soreness. An abdominal incision running the length of the muscular wall wouldn't just be sore, it'd literally stop her from being able to sit up, much less jump around, sprint, roll, duck, struggle, rappel... So after that point I was pretty much just saying, "I'm watching a cartoon, not a real thing" every time she was on screen.

So the whole thing seemed like a contrived, derivitive, unrealistic, generic sci-fi horror movie with a cast of unlikable characters and nothing at stake. It pulled the, "Save the entire earth" angle, which is code for desperate writing to introduce some sort of stakes at the climax. We've never been to Earth in this story, all we know are these characters, and the fact that they pulled that out says to me that they knew we sure as heck weren't going to care about these characters enough.

[Psyren]

Were we supposed to care about them, though? Since we know that nobody actually knew about the xenomorphs when they finally showed up later (in Alien), we know that nobody on this mission survived to get the word out.

In other words, it's a sort of Start of Darkness. Which means Good is cannon fodder.

[revolver kobold]

The Company did know about the xenomorphs in Alien, or at least knew of some life form in that region of space.

Ash was a last minute change to the Nostromo's crew, replacing the original science officer, and Ripley discovers the order for Ash to return the lifeform, crew expendable.

[Philistine]

Yeessss... but mostly no. It's true that The Company was aware that there was something out there, but that was because they'd received a signal from the crashed Space Jockey ship - the one that Mother initially reported to the crew as a distress signal, prompting them to land and investigate, but which Ripley later discovered had been decoded as a warning before they ever left Earth.

[Avilan the Grey]

Yeessss... but mostly no. It's true that The Company was aware that there was something out there, but that was because they'd received a signal from the crashed Space Jockey ship - the one that Mother initially reported to the crew as a distress signal, prompting them to land and investigate, but which Ripley later discovered had been decoded as a warning before they ever left Earth.

...And that's where (now, many years later) I find Alien less plausible than I did when I saw it; I can only take "Ultimate Company Of Evil" for so long before I start rolling my eyes and go "fine, whatever the plot demands".

Even the greediest company in the world would not be as dumb as this company. Heck even the idiots in Avatar weren't THIS dumb.

[darksolitaire]

The Company did know about the xenomorphs in Alien, or at least knew of some life form in that region of space.

Ash was a last minute change to the Nostromo's crew, replacing the original science officer, and Ripley discovers the order for Ash to return the lifeform, crew expendable.

This dialogue from Alien makes me think that the company knows about the nature of the xenomorph.

Ripley: Ash, can you hear me? Ash?
Ash: [speaking in an electronic, distorted voice] Yes, I can hear you.
Ripley: What was your special order?
Ash: You read it. I thought it was clear.
Ripley: What was it?
Ash: Bring back life form. Priority One. All other priorities rescinded.
Parker: The damn company. What about our lives, you son of a bitch?
Ash: I repeat, all other priorities are rescinded.
Ripley: How do we kill it Ash? There's gotta be a way of killing it. How? How do we do it?
Ash: You can't.
Parker: That's bull****.
Ash: You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility.
Lambert: You admire it.
Ash: I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.
Parker: Look, I am... I've heard enough of this, and I'm asking you to pull the plug.
Ash: [Ripley goes to disconnect Ash, who interrupts] Last word.
Ripley: What?
Ash: I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies

[The Succubus]

I really don't see the company's actions as stupid. The alien is the ultimate weapon - fast, strong, adaptable and capable of rapid reproduction, which in itself is a form of attack.

And you only need one alien to start the process as well. If you could genetically engineer a "kill-switch" such as some form of alien-targetting virus, you have a weapon that makes nukes look like a pretty fireworks display.

Send in facehugger eggs at strategic locations, then let the aliens do their thing. Then once the territory is secure, activate the virus kill switch and the continent or world is yours.

I admire their thinking but the company's morals are a little questionable.

[Yora]

Animals als pest control or helpers to modify an area for agricultural use have been used throughout all the world in the last hundreds of years.
It was always regreted. It never works as intended when you introduce an animal that is not native to the environment.

Viruses to kill them off sound good, but there has never been a virus with 100% efficiency. And you can't guarantee that an airborne agent reaches every single alien and egg. And you only need one queen egg burried by clay for as long as it takes the virus to die after all the aliens are dead.

[Avilan the Grey]

I admire their thinking but the company's morals are a little questionable.

That is... an understatement.


I really don't see the company's actions as stupid. The alien is the ultimate weapon - fast, strong, adaptable and capable of rapid reproduction, which in itself is a form of attack.

But it is not. Nukes, maybe. Planet busters, maybe. This? A woman in a cargo lifter killed their queen. Of course I might have become sensitive for these kind of stupid decisions after playing too much Mass Effect; Cerberus does that to you. And this is just Cerberus all over again (or would that be the other way around)? Thorian Creepers, Husks, Rachnii.... Xenomorphs.

No way of controlling it. Sacrificing people for profit in a way that is beyond immoral (only a single whistleblower is needed for the company to go utterly bankrupt). Only looking at quick profits over the wellbeing of the company. Etc.

[Emmerask]

I really don't see the company's actions as stupid. The alien is the ultimate weapon - fast, strong, adaptable and capable of rapid reproduction, which in itself is a form of attack.

And you only need one alien to start the process as well. If you could genetically engineer a "kill-switch" such as some form of alien-targetting virus, you have a weapon that makes nukes look like a pretty fireworks display.

Send in facehugger eggs at strategic locations, then let the aliens do their thing. Then once the territory is secure, activate the virus kill switch and the continent or world is yours.

I admire their thinking but the company's morals are a little questionable.

Not really, its still a very very slow process (in comparison to other weapons) and the eggs or facehuggers or aliens could potentially all be destroyed.

The same thing with much much faster and more reliable results could be achieved with an airborn virus or even better nanobots (less chance of mutation/change of programming).

As a shock and awe weapon maybe...

Oh and of course the company is stupid, they send these persons (with an IQ barely above room temperature) without any failsafes in place... no denying it company is stupid :smallbiggrin:

[Megaduck]

I really don't see the company's actions as stupid. The alien is the ultimate weapon - fast, strong, adaptable and capable of rapid reproduction, which in itself is a form of attack.


And uncontrollable.

A weapon that's as dangerous to you as it is to your enemy isn't valuable. (The Umbrella corporation had the exact same problem.)

There is a reason that all major militarys don't use biological weapons. They're just not worth the cost.

[ThePhantasm]

Also, if anyone's had surgery, you know a 1-2 inch incision and minimal internal disruption will give you weeks of downtime and soreness. An abdominal incision running the length of the muscular wall wouldn't just be sore, it'd literally stop her from being able to sit up, much less jump around, sprint, roll, duck, struggle, rappel... So after that point I was pretty much just saying, "I'm watching a cartoon, not a real thing" every time she was on screen.

Yes, but she was also injecting herself with something ... she did it two or three times from what I recall. Futuristic super pain killer?

[Dragosai]

Yeessss... but mostly no. It's true that The Company was aware that there was something out there, but that was because they'd received a signal from the crashed Space Jockey ship - the one that Mother initially reported to the crew as a distress signal, prompting them to land and investigate, but which Ripley later discovered had been decoded as a warning before they ever left Earth.

So anyone thinking that the company knows or does not know about the events in Prometheus is missing one piece of the puzzle;

Who says that the planet Prometheus takes place on is the same planet from Alien?

That planet had a crashed ship with the space jockey in it but that could have been any planet anywhere unrelated to the events in Prometheus.

So the company I am sure at the least has records of the Prometheus and where it went, but we have no way of knowing if Shaw lived/died or had any contact with any humans/company people at all.

It seems unlikely to me that they would send a crew to investigate a signal from a planet where the last crew never came back from, at least sending an crew totally ignorant of that fact I can't buy into.

Anyway I think this was supposed to be a reboot-ish as I am not sure what other reason there was to have Guy Pearce play Weyland in old man makeup unless they were going to do some prequels.

Overall for me I first enjoyed the movie simply for it's uber sci fi scope, but now that I have thought about it for a few days I have changed my mind. This was a pretty awful movie. The character are all just so stupid in every little thing they do, with the one exception maybe being David, that I just can't forgive this movie anymore.

[hamlet]

That is... an understatement.



But it is not. Nukes, maybe. Planet busters, maybe. This? A woman in a cargo lifter killed their queen. Of course I might have become sensitive for these kind of stupid decisions after playing too much Mass Effect; Cerberus does that to you. And this is just Cerberus all over again (or would that be the other way around)? Thorian Creepers, Husks, Rachnii.... Xenomorphs.

No way of controlling it. Sacrificing people for profit in a way that is beyond immoral (only a single whistleblower is needed for the company to go utterly bankrupt). Only looking at quick profits over the wellbeing of the company. Etc.

But, in a way, that's really the point of the movie. The xenomorph in and of itself is kind of ancillary and what you're really supposed to be getting on some level is just how evil the corporation is in the first place. It's a major thing for Scott. Corporations = pure unadulterated evil, and it's something that Cameron gleefully latched on to and has since become a major theme in the series as a whole.

Interesting that it wasn't really a strong presence in Prometheus when you get right down to it.

[ThePhantasm]

Who says that the planet Prometheus takes place on is the same planet from Alien?


It isn't. They are two different planets. The planet in Alien is stated to be LV-426. The one in Prometheus is LV-223.

[hamlet]

So anyone thinking that the company knows or does not know about the events in Prometheus is missing one piece of the puzzle;

Who says that the planet Prometheus takes place on is the same planet from Alien?

That planet had a crashed ship with the space jockey in it but that could have been any planet anywhere unrelated to the events in Prometheus.

So the company I am sure at the least has records of the Prometheus and where it went, but we have no way of knowing if Shaw lived/died or had any contact with any humans/company people at all.

It seems unlikely to me that they would send a crew to investigate a signal from a planet where the last crew never came back from, at least sending an crew totally ignorant of that fact I can't buy into.

Anyway I think this was supposed to be a reboot-ish as I am not sure what other reason there was to have Guy Pearce play Weyland in old man makeup unless they were going to do some prequels.

Overall for me I first enjoyed the movie simply for it's uber sci fi scope, but now that I have thought about it for a few days I have changed my mind. This was a pretty awful movie. The character are all just so stupid in every little thing they do, with the one exception maybe being David, that I just can't forgive this movie anymore.

It's explicitely not the same planet. That, and by simple appearance on screen, these things are not your "standard" xenomorph.

If I had to guess, I'd say that it's the same type of thing (an engineered bio-weapon), but of a different line/make/model. Probably for a different type of application than yer typical xenomorph hive type thing. Maybe the black goo stuff is intended for less urban/concentrated populations, which would have been earth back in those days, since the standard xenomorph process would be somewhat less effective at more distributed populations.

[Dexam]

So anyone thinking that the company knows or does not know about the events in Prometheus is missing one piece of the puzzle;

Who says that the planet Prometheus takes place on is the same planet from Alien?

That planet had a crashed ship with the space jockey in it but that could have been any planet anywhere unrelated to the events in Prometheus.


The planet in Prometheus and the planet in Alien/Aliens are distinctly not the same planet: the planet in Prometheus has the designation LV-223; the planet in Alien/Aliens is LV-426.

One theory raised by an acquaintance I saw the movie with: the space jockey seen in Alien is Shaw in an Engineers flight suit, infected by a stage-one xeno (facehugger or equivalent) that stowed away aboard her ship.

Edit: Double-Ninja'd while I was double-checking the names, dangit! :smallannoyed:

[Tiki Snakes]

The planet in Prometheus and the planet in Alien/Aliens are distinctly not the same planet: the planet in Prometheus has the designation LV-223; the planet in Alien/Aliens is LV-426.

They do, however, seem to be in the same system, as I understand.

[hamlet]

They do, however, seem to be in the same system, as I understand.

Based on what evidence?

It's stated outright in the film that there's only one planetoid in the system other than the gas giant.

[Tiki Snakes]

Based on what evidence?

It's stated outright in the film that there's only one planetoid in the system other than the gas giant.

I thought I saw somewhere that it was the same star system, apparently might have been confused. But might not be.

Uh. So, yeah, when people can even agree what all the planets and systems are possibly called, we've got LV 426 and LV 223. Some quotes and so on give Ridley Scott mentioning that prometheus takes place on a planet in the Zeta Reticuli system, albeit in slightly confusing terms. In Alien they mention very specifically Zeta Reticuli, though also in possibly confusing terms.

So, it's entirely possible that both the locations are moons orbiting the same Gas-Giant. It certainly looks pretty similar, though there's some confusion whether the planet in Prometheus has enough moons.

[hamlet]

I thought I saw somewhere that it was the same star system, apparently might have been confused. But might not be.

Uh. So, yeah, when people can even agree what all the planets and systems are possibly called, we've got LV 426 and LV 223. Some quotes and so on give Ridley Scott mentioning that prometheus takes place on a planet in the Zeta Reticuli system, albeit in slightly confusing terms. In Alien they mention very specifically Zeta Reticuli, though also in possibly confusing terms.

So, it's entirely possible that both the locations are moons orbiting the same Gas-Giant. It certainly looks pretty similar, though there's some confusion whether the planet in Prometheus has enough moons.

LV-426 actually has a name. It's Acheron. Mentioned in script and novelization.

And I've not seen anything from Scott that says Prometheus takes place in the Zeta Reticuli system. Wouldn't put it past the jerk given the fact that he's a fallen creator, but . . . yeah. Probably safer to assume it's a different location entirely.

[Tiki Snakes]

LV-426 actually has a name. It's Acheron. Mentioned in script and novelization.

And I've not seen anything from Scott that says Prometheus takes place in the Zeta Reticuli system. Wouldn't put it past the jerk given the fact that he's a fallen creator, but . . . yeah. Probably safer to assume it's a different location entirely.

There's a trailery thing where he says it takes place on a planet called zeta 2 reticuli, which is to say a confusing indication that he might mean it takes place in the Zeta Reticuli system or something similar unless he doesn't. So yeah, it's probably safer to assume that but I think there's enough of a suggestion there that I'm not ruling it out, especially with the first-glance similarity of the whole gas-giant and moons set-up.

[hamlet]

There's a trailery thing where he says it takes place on a planet called zeta 2 reticuli, which is to say a confusing indication that he might mean it takes place in the Zeta Reticuli system or something similar unless he doesn't. So yeah, it's probably safer to assume that but I think there's enough of a suggestion there that I'm not ruling it out, especially with the first-glance similarity of the whole gas-giant and moons set-up.

Zeta Recituli and Zeta 2 Reticuli are the same thing. It's an actual star system in the real universe.

If you have a link to where he says that, it'd be very interesting to see.

[Tiki Snakes]

I do, infact.
(http://silverscreensaucers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/prometheus-headed-for-zeta-reticuli.html) That's where I found it, anyway.
Alternatively, direct link to video. (http://youtu.be/yK2RQWumpQ4)

[hamlet]

I do, infact.
(http://silverscreensaucers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/prometheus-headed-for-zeta-reticuli.html) That's where I found it, anyway.
Alternatively, direct link to video. (http://youtu.be/yK2RQWumpQ4)

Interesting. Then it would seem that Prometheus and Alien(s) are in the same system if not the same planetoid.

Which raises some rather . . . infuriating possibilities.

[ThePhantasm]

Be infuriated by actualities, not possibilities. :smalltongue:

[hamlet]

Be infuriated by actualities, not possibilities. :smalltongue:

Oh, trust me, I'm infuriated by actualities. Just that there's so many of them nowadays to be furious about that I've started ignoring reality and gone on to focusing on other things.

[Agent 451]

One theory raised by an acquaintance I saw the movie with: the space jockey seen in Alien is Shaw in an Engineers flight suit, infected by a stage-one xeno (facehugger or equivalent) that stowed away aboard her ship.

Except for the fact that David is the only one that understands the language, or how to use any of the technology. Pretty sure he mentions that he will (or can) fly the ship as well.

[Bhu]

relevant, spoilers, etc (http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html#cutid1).



Not bad but he misses two things:

The argument over whether Vickers is an android.

Noomi Rapace's character is Pandora.

[Agent 451]

Noomi Rapace's character is Pandora.

I must have missed the part where she was being mined for unobtanium.. :smallconfused: .. :smallannoyed: .. :smalleek: .. :smalltongue: ..so that's how that squid baby got so ginormous!

Yeah, I knew what you actually meant :P

[Bhu]

I must have missed the part where she was being mined for unobtanium.... :smallconfused: ....so that's how that squid baby got so ginormous!

Yeah, I knew what you actually meant :P

In the earliest versions of the Prometheus myths Prometheus creates mankind. Accent on mankind. There are no women. After his betrayal of the Gods for the sake of mankind Zeus decide to punish man as well creating the first woman Pandora intending for her beauty to destroy men. He also gives her a jar containing all the evils of the world including death knowing the 'feminine nature' he has given her will prompt her to one day open it from curiosity. The jar is often mistranslated as 'box' which not so coincidentally is also a slang term for female genitalia. The black slime comes from vases which is what many greek jars would look like to us, and the primordial facehugger comes from Shaw's womb. The Engineers and the black oil are only encountered because of her curiosity and need to have her questions answered.


In short Noomi's character represents a misogynistic view of how the world would have been better off before women introduced death and misery into it, an idea somewhat similar to the idea of Eve and original sin. I'm surprising more people don't catch on to it as it's kind of condescending of the movie to say.

[Gnoman]

In the earliest versions of the Prometheus myths Prometheus creates mankind. Accent on mankind. There are no women. After his betrayal of the Gods for the sake of mankind Zeus decide to punish man as well creating the first woman Pandora intending for her beauty to destroy men. He also gives her a jar containing all the evils of the world including death knowing the 'feminine nature' he has given her will prompt her to one day open it from curiosity. The jar is often mistranslated as 'box' which not so coincidentally is also a slang term for female genitalia. The black slime comes from vases which is what many greek jars would look like to us, and the primordial facehugger comes from Shaw's womb. The Engineers and the black oil are only encountered because of her curiosity and need to have her questions answered.


In short Noomi's character represents a misogynistic view of how the world would have been better off before women introduced death and misery into it, an idea somewhat similar to the idea of Eve and original sin. I'm surprising more people don't catch on to it as it's kind of condescending of the movie to say.

That interpretation would be less unlikely if


The real driving force behind the mission hadn't been a man' quest for immortality, and the theory behind the mission hadn't been formulated as much by a man as by a woman.

[Agent 451]

And the fact that the ampule was actually opened/utilized by a masculine android...

[TSGames]

Not bad but he misses two things:

The argument over whether Vickers is an android.


There's no room for argument, but I guess that won't stop some people.

David is called, by the CEO, "The son I never had". If the CEO wanted a son, he would have just made Vickars a guy in the first place and there woud have been no reason to create David.


Also, that article: lol
To be a philosophy major with too much time on my hands...but then again I'm being redundant.

[Bhu]

There's no room for argument, but I guess that won't stop some people.

David is called, by the CEO, "The son I never had". If the CEO wanted a son, he would have just made Vickars a guy in the first place and there woud have been no reason to create David.


Also, that article: lol
To be a philosophy major with too much time on my hands...but then again I'm being redundant.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1446714/faq#.2.1.21


That interpretation would be less unlikely if
Quote:
The real driving force behind the mission hadn't been a man' quest for immortality, and the theory behind the mission hadn't been formulated as much by a man as by a woman.

There's allusions to a second Prometheus, i.e. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Weyland is Dr. Frankenstein, and his android is the monster. Except here Weyland has also realized he is a monster from a successful species that was a flawed design in his eyes. He can die. The Engineers are what he views as his Dr. Frankenstein, and he hopes they can fix their imperfections when in reality much like the original tale they're mostly interested in destroying their own creation. The writers tried to tie too many themes together, and didn't quite succeed for two reasons. One: They openly admit they didnt explain everything because of the possibility of a sequel in which they could do that.

Two: They cut the film by a half hour or more for release so likely the dvd will be expanded.



And the fact that the ampule was actually opened/utilized by a masculine android...

Misdirection. Remember earlier i said box was also a slang term for the female anatomy, which in this film is where the facehugger comes from. The jar in question arent the containers, it's Shaw's womb. She gives birth to the evil that will plague mankind, and by flying a ship full of the Engineers bioweapons off planet she has effectively 'opened the box' letting death escape. Scott and company tried mixing Greek and Christian metaphor and muddled it somewhere along the way as the two aren't entirely compatible.

[Agent 451]

Sorry, but I don't buy it. You see Engineers with burst chests when Tweedledee-geologist and Tweedledum-biologist are running around trying to get back to the ship. Not only that but the black goo goes and makes angry worms for the biologist to poke at and get infested by, and the goo somehow turns the geologist into a human xeno-mbie (recall his crouched xenomorph-like body positioning waiting to enter the cargo area). Seems to me that many others have "opened the box" before Shaw does.

...ew.

[Bhu]

Yes but they don't transport it off planet ;)

[Dexam]

Except for the fact that David is the only one that understands the language, or how to use any of the technology. Pretty sure he mentions that he will (or can) fly the ship as well.

As I recall it, David says that he will instruct Shaw in how to fly the ship, seeing as he's currently somewhat limited in the mobility department. :smalltongue:

[Bhu]

As I recall it, David says that he will instruct Shaw in how to fly the ship, seeing as he's currently somewhat limited in the mobility department. :smalltongue:

He's still Frankensteins monster hoping to destroy his creator (in this case possibly by using Shaws religious beliefs to let him unleash the bioweapons).

Also I throw a muffin at you :smalltongue:

[Dexam]

He's still Frankensteins monster hoping to destroy his creator (in this case possibly by using Shaws religious beliefs to let him unleash the bioweapons).

I totally agree - what better way to get the Engineers to resume their extermination program than to convince Shaw to drive a shipload of their own black goo bioweapon to their home planet?

Hmmm... do we have a possible Biblical creation mythology comparison here? David (as the serpent) tempting Shaw (mother to the Xenos?) with the offer of Knowledge, potentially leading to the downfall of humanity at the hands of their creators? :smallamused:

(Potentially straying into real-world religion here, so I'll leave it at that.)


Also I throw a muffin at you :smalltongue:

*om nom nom!*

[Bhu]

Is he helping her? Or is he scheming to get into position to win her trust before turning the ship around to earth (remember there's an intended sequel, and he has demonstrated evil tendencies).

[Dexam]

I don't think he's helping her at all.

Whichever way you look at it, it's a potential win-win scenario for David:
Either he tricks her and gets her to drive a cargo-hold full of xenomorph mutagen into Earth's biosphere (at which point fun and games ensue, because what could possibly go wrong :smallwink:);
or, he's serious about taking her to meet the Engineers, at which point he tells them "Hey guys, your unruly creations have found your bioweapons stockpile and your homeworld! This crazy lady is the first of many insane suicidal attackers come to unleash black goo nano-bioengineered chest-bursty goodness on your species, so how about dusting off that 'cleanse the Earth' plan you put on hold 2000 years ago?".

[TSGames]

Misdirection. Remember earlier i said box was also a slang term for the female anatomy, which in this film is where the facehugger comes from. The jar in question arent the containers, it's Shaw's womb. She gives birth to the evil that will plague mankind, and by flying a ship full of the Engineers bioweapons off planet she has effectively 'opened the box' letting death escape. Scott and company tried mixing Greek and Christian metaphor and muddled it somewhere along the way as the two aren't entirely compatible.

The creature was put in her womb by a man who is in no way an allegory/representation/metaphor for the gods. The man himself was corrupted by the man-bot David.

[Bhu]

The creature was put in her womb by a man who is in no way an allegory/representation/metaphor for the gods. The man himself was corrupted by the man-bot David.

Part of the original Pandora myth is that she was intended to punish mankind by being beautiful so that they would want her. The Pandora myth is part of the Prometheus myth, and the Greek theodicy (explanation for evils existence) in much the way the story of Eve is the same. She is intended to destroy men through marriage but consider the following quote from Hesiod about men who try to avoid this fate by avoiding women:

'He reaches deadly old age without anyone to tend his years,
and though he at least has no lack of livelihood while he lives,
yet, when he is dead, his kinsfolk divide his possessions amongst them.'

With the exception of no one to tend him that sure as hell sounds like Weyland, especially if the guess about Vickers being an android is true. The writers admit they were going for a mix of christianity, frankenstein, and the original Prometheus myth. Pandora plays such a large part in that they wouldn't have left her out. But enough of the other writing was bad there's nothing to say the didn't goof up her intro either.

[TSGames]

So she has to be Pandora because the Pandora Myth is tied to the Prometheus myth. That sounds like sound logic.

[Philistine]

And because the word "box" is used in both the (English translation of the) Pandora myth and as a euphemism for the vagina (again, in English usage). A claim has been made that this isn't a coincidence, but as yet I've seen no evidence to support that. Did the ancient Greek word used in the original myth also have a similar euphemistic usage?

[HeadlessMermaid]

And because the word "box" is used in both the (English translation of the) Pandora myth and as a euphemism for the vagina (again, in English usage). A claim has been made that this isn't a coincidence, but as yet I've seen no evidence to support that. Did the ancient Greek word used in the original myth also have a similar euphemistic usage?
Nope.

Damn word limit. OK, sources for the curious:
The word (for jar) is πίθος (Hesiod's "Works and Days", line 94 (http://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%88%CF%81%CE%B3%CE%B1_%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9_%CE%B7 %CE%BC%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%B9)). According to the Liddell/Scott (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dp i%2Fqos), which is a very reliable dictionary, it doesn't mean anything naughty. I also looked up all the instances of the word (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/searchresults?all_words=pi%2Fqos&all_words_expand=yes&la=greek) in the plays of Aristophanes (if anyone had preserved such a metaphorical use for the word, it'd have been him), and none of them seems to be ambiguous. Finally, have you seen such a jar? It looks nothing like female genitalia.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6104/pithos23148191.jpg

So no, it just means large jar.

[Yora]

But a gun and a knife always means a penis! A penis of destruction!

[hamlet]

I give you an alternate interpretation that is, while still a bit tenuous and far reaching, is a bit stronger supported.

Needless to say, spoilers ahoy!

I give to you, the meaning of Prometheus (http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html)!

[Jerthanis]

Yes, but she was also injecting herself with something ... she did it two or three times from what I recall. Futuristic super pain killer?

The incision ran the length of the abdomen and would have had to penetrate the muscle entirely to access the abdominal cavity. If she had tried to sit up after that, she would have failed because the muscles would have been physically incapable of it.

It doesn't matter how many painkillers you are on, your body has limits and that surgical procedure was beyond any reasonable limits to the human body.

Seriously, her getting up after was the equivalent of a victim of a chestburster getting up and saying, "Ow, that really hurt" getting 15 seconds of first aid and going on with their normal routine. Taking enough painkillers to knock out a team of mules doesn't excuse the impossibility of what they showed happening.

The movie had pretty much already lost me at that point with all the illogical, idiotic stuff that had all happened to allow the plot to exist, but that surgical scene was where the movie turned into an absolute farce for me. I would have been laughing at it if it hadn't made me so angry.

[JustSomeGuy]

A box looks nowt like a vagina either!

How far back into history was it referred to as pandora's box, and how far back did people start using box as a euphymism? Approximate those two, and it'd sort this out i'da thought.

[Bhu]

So she has to be Pandora because the Pandora Myth is tied to the Prometheus myth. That sounds like sound logic.

There are only two women in the film, and the writers admit to basing it off the original Prometheus myth which was largely a way of introducing Pandora as a way to explain the creation of death, disease, and evil. If it isn't Shaw, that leaves Vickers, whom many people assume is another android. Although since the original Pandora was made of clay you could say she was automaton so maybe Vickers is a possible fit.



And because the word "box" is used in both the (English translation of the) Pandora myth and as a euphemism for the vagina (again, in English usage). A claim has been made that this isn't a coincidence, but as yet I've seen no evidence to support that. Did the ancient Greek word used in the original myth also have a similar euphemistic usage?


It does not, but the writers are modern men not ancient greeks, and they mix ancient greece along with modern christianity and sexuality. The original word in greek is 'storage jar', it's later mistranslated as box. Whether used for storing food, wine, oil, or funerary ashes. The mistranslation has endured in pop culture. Box as a slang term for vagina came later but the writers are likely well aware of that. The original Alien was about rape, and it's always been admitted as such. The monster and virtually everything else about the film is a metaphor for rape. Noomi Rapace who plays Shaw became famous for playing in films where rape is also a central theme. Given that sexuality of some form is a strong theme in both films the parallel between Pandora's box and box as a euphemism for womb is a somewhat logical conclusion to make especially since archaeological evidence also suggests that Pandora was also a minor fertility goddess in addition to being the Greek scapegoat for evil. She went from being the giver of life, to the cause of all evil, to being a very foolish woman meant as a warning by a patronistic society.


also Shaw has a fight with an Engineer after the surgery? wtf? V

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/ridley-scott-says-there-will-be-an-extended-cut-of-prometheus-on-dvd-blu-ray-that-runs-20-minutes-longer-20120611



A box looks nowt like a vagina either!

How far back into history was it referred to as pandora's box, and how far back did people start using box as a euphymism? Approximate those two, and it'd sort this out i'da thought.

Wiki lists the confusion beginning in the 16th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box
The first use of box as a euphemism supposedly began around the time of Shakespeare. It was still in use commonly when i was a kid and I'm 40 now.

Edit: We are allowed to discuss this right? Or is getting this close to talking about sex taboo?

[HeadlessMermaid]

IMHO, all these efforts to shoehorn the script of Prometheus in a coherent allegory of some sort are a complete waste of time.

We're not talking about an otherwise coherent story, where everything makes sense, and all the pieces of the puzzle fit perfectly in the end. We're talking about Damon Lindelof, mmkay?

I enjoyed Prometheus immensely, because it was breathtakingly beautiful, and it had spaceships and planets and alien monsters and chases and stuff. Also, it had a very intriguing android. It was stupendously directed, but the script was a mess. If you gave this script to a lesser director (with a lesser budget), you'd have trash. If you gave this director a brilliant script instead, you'd have a masterpiece. We got neither.

...

I'm not opposed to inserting mythical elements and symbolism in a story, not even in a science fiction story. However, your story won't automatically become "deep" if you randomly dump references to 3000-years-old myths. You gotta know what you're doing. You gotta have something to say in the first place - even if that something is another question and not an answer.

In short, the entire purpose of a symbol is to, well, symbolize: to hint at something else. It's a means to an end.

The tale of Prometheus has been used through the years (from Hesiod to Aeschylus and from Anatole France to Erich Fromm), to symbolize a whole lot of things. For some authors, it was foolish insubordination, followed by rightly deserved retribution - despite the good intentions. For others, it was a heroic rebellion against the supreme leader, a valiant act of defiance. For some it was self-sacrifice, for some it was wisdom, for some it was creation, for some it was destruction. Depending on what you want to say, Prometheus can be anything, from a reckless fool to a wise creator to Robin freaking Hood.

...And I ask you. What THE HECK did Lindelof want to say with the tale of Prometheus? I'll tell you. He had no idea. He was just throwing mythical and religious elements in the mix, hoping some of the material's original depth (or dread, or general sense of wonder) will somehow rub off into his script. Or at least, hoping that people will be so impressed by the highbrow references, that they'll say "ooooh, that's deep, man!"

Well, it isn't. Sheesh. :smalltongue:

[Bhu]

What she said +1.

In Lindelof's admittedly pointless defense he does say in interviews they wanted to leave open the possibility of a sequel so they deliberately didn't explain everything and they cut the film 20 minutes for time. It's doing okay box office wise so he may get his sequel wishes. But if they do a sequel they intend to move it further away from Alien, so likely it will somehow follow Shaw's quest for God.

[The Glyphstone]

...And I ask you. What THE HECK did Lindelof want to say with the tale of Prometheus? I'll tell you. He had no idea. He was just throwing mythical and religious elements in the mix, hoping some of the material's original depth (or dread, or general sense of wonder) will somehow rub off into his script. Or at least, hoping that people will be so impressed by the highbrow references, that they'll say "ooooh, that's deep, man!"

Well, it isn't. Sheesh. :smalltongue:

So, they took the Evangelion approach to symbolism?

[Eldan]

So, they took the Evangelion approach to symbolism?

Woah. You referenced Evangelion. Your post is, like, so deep, man.:smalltongue:

[Closet_Skeleton]

My summary of the message of the film:

"You had god inside of you all along!"

[The Succubus]

My summary of the message of the film:

"You had god inside of you all along!"

The message I got was "Don't have space-nookie when an evil android has access to suspicious black chemicals."

I feel my version is an important fact to remember in day to day life.




Like it or loathe it, this film has really been making people talk and think. It's been quite a while since a film has done that.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The message I got was "Don't have space-nookie when an evil android has access to suspicious black chemicals."

I feel my version is an important fact to remember in day to day life.

That or 'in space, androids can watch you dream'.

[HeadlessMermaid]

Like it or loathe it, this film has really been making people talk and think. It's been quite a while since a film has done that.
What, a science fiction film? With aliens and/or spaceships? Probably, but only because of the hype. District 9, Sunshine, even Attack The Block were a hundred times more thought-provoking on their own right.

I'm reminded of Beatlemania, when everyone was desperate to find a hidden deep and symbolic meaning in all the Beatles lyrics and artwork. Until Lennon and McCartney got fed up with the whole thing, and wrote "I am the warlus" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnpil_pRUiw), thinking "mwahahah, let's see how you folks are gonna find a deep meaning in THAT". And they did! The fans were absolutely determined to extrapolate great things, so they came up with elaborate allegories for a song explicitly written to mean nothing at all.

[Bhu]

They kind of muddled their message. I'm not sure whether it's pro or anti faith. It seems to say that science should take a back seat and sometimes things you can't explain should just be accepted on faith, but then it also deliberately sets out to prove that faith is usually misplaced and leads to your own destruction. It seems like evolutions vs creationism, but then they toss that out by openly saying we were made by aliens so it seems to support the idea of Intelligent Design, except instead of a deity you have space men. Honestly it came across as fairly condescending to both the religious and atheists. And if the Pandora idea is correct it's more than a little condescending to women as it once again blames them for all of societies ills.

[Emmerask]

Like it or loathe it, this film has really been making people talk and think. It's been quite a while since a film has done that.

Well most of the discussion is focused about the inconsistencies, stupidity of the characters and of course if one of the most anticipated movies this summer is just bad or if it achieves to be an avg scifi flick :smallbiggrin:

[Tiki Snakes]

And if the Pandora idea is correct it's more than a little condescending to women as it once again blames them for all of societies ills.

Except that is all supposition after the fact as at no point in the film is there any real suggestion of such a theme, given that men* are partially or entirely responsible for everything bad that happens in the film.

*Real or Synthetic ones, natch.

[Bhu]

It's not entirely supposition. Read some of teh interviews with the writers or the director. They've promised a fairly in-depth commentary with the dvd so we'll see I'm right then I guess.

Also kudos on the hilarious avvie. :smallcool:

[ThePhantasm]

They kind of muddled their message. I'm not sure whether it's pro or anti faith. It seems to say that science should take a back seat and sometimes things you can't explain should just be accepted on faith, but then it also deliberately sets out to prove that faith is usually misplaced and leads to your own destruction. It seems like evolutions vs creationism, but then they toss that out by openly saying we were made by aliens so it seems to support the idea of Intelligent Design, except instead of a deity you have space men. Honestly it came across as fairly condescending to both the religious and atheists. And if the Pandora idea is correct it's more than a little condescending to women as it once again blames them for all of societies ills.

I thought it was intentionally muddled. You have a little of each in there. From the DNA / cells in the water at the beginning of the film "evolves" life. But there is also intelligent (alien) design to it. But there are also a lot of unanswered questions. Ridley Scott is an agnostic supposedly so I understood the point of the film to be the horror of the unknown. That horror would be negated if they gave all the answers in the film.

There was a lot of religious vagueness to the film, just like with LOST. It is a hodgepodge of imagery from various religions (not surprising to see it in Prometheus given Lindelof's involvement).

The main theme of the film, as far as I can tell, is the "horror of the unknown." Ellie's faith, David's science, etc. are all means of dealing with that horror and facing it (except I guess David doesn't feel horror but still).

We'd better be careful with this tack of discussion though as I suspect we'll soon be venturing too far into a real-world religion discussion.

[hamlet]

I thought it was intentionally muddled. You have a little of each in there. From the DNA / cells in the water at the beginning of the film "evolves" life. But there is also intelligent (alien) design to it. But there are also a lot of unanswered questions. Ridley Scott is an agnostic supposedly so I understood the point of the film to be the horror of the unknown. That horror would be negated if they gave all the answers in the film.

There was a lot of religious vagueness to the film, just like with LOST. It is a hodgepodge of imagery from various religions (not surprising to see it in Prometheus given Lindelof's involvement).

The main theme of the film, as far as I can tell, is the "horror of the unknown." Ellie's faith, David's science, etc. are all means of dealing with that horror and facing it (except I guess David doesn't feel horror but still).

We'd better be careful with this tack of discussion though as I suspect we'll soon be venturing too far into a real-world religion discussion.

There's a major problem with this, though. Maybe Scott's agnosticism means he can't come up with concrete answers . . . but it seems that the movie can't actually coherently pose the questions even.

Hell with the "meaning of it all," there's a huge argument essentially boiling down to what the hell the movie was about in the first place, and that's just bad film making.

[ThePhantasm]

But it seems that the movie can't actually coherently pose the questions even.

Well, like I said, I don't think they necessarily meant to. It is supposed to be a psychological / philosophical horror film. That was my understanding of it. The reason that so many diverse philosophical questions are vaguely asked throughout the film is that there isn't a central message or theme or point, other than sheer uncertainty and the horror of it. Some characters ask "Where did we come from?" Others "Why were we made?" Others "Are our makers angry with us?" Others question the notion of makers at all.

There isn't one single "question" being posed in the film. It is supposed to reflect the variety of questions that anyone in the audience might have, just like the variety of religious backgrounds that anyone might have. The vagueness is to draw you in, to invest yourself in the story with your own questions and doubts. The movie is "about" whatever you bring to the table.

That was my interpretation. It is the uncertainty of the vast blackness of space. It is supposed to be philosophically and psychologically unsettling... to tap into a fear deeper than monsters and aliens.

[Jerthanis]

There isn't one single "question" being posed in the film. It is supposed to reflect the variety of questions that anyone in the audience might have, just like the variety of religious backgrounds that anyone might have. The vagueness is to draw you in, to invest yourself in the story with your own questions and doubts. The movie is "about" whatever you bring to the table.


The trouble with this is that the reason these things would invest us is because we have done some thinking about it ourselves and are intrigued to see where the movie is going with it. The movie then goes nowhere with it. It didn't think about these issues, they just brought them up and had nothing to say.

The fact that it has nothing to say MIGHT have been the whole point, but the true nihilistic idea of "There is no purpose to life because our creators didn't have a reason for our creation" doesn't really come through because the idea is suggested offhand 1/3rd of the way through and is never mentioned again, and is in fact undercut by the ideas put forth later of the Engineers wanting to destroy us and of Shaw's enduring faith.

If the Engineers want to destroy us, that implies there was a purpose in our creation. By caring about us being destroyed it either means we failed to fulfill that purpose and we're being punished, we already have fulfilled that purpose and the waste is being taken care of, or our purpose will be a byproduct of our destruction. It may not be clear why we were created, but it is very difficult to think there was no purpose ("we did it just because we could") if then they want so badly to kill us.

Second, Shaw's enduring faith sets that akilter because we experience the movie mostly through her eyes. Her faith in spite of everything she sees implies she's either an idiot or even all this doesn't shake her faith in a higher purpose. Either we're supposed to not empathize with the only person we can reasonably empathize with at this point, at which point I find there's nothing to be invested in and cannot be a part of the movie and it can't scare me, or we're supposed to feel that everything seen so far should not be enough to shake the worldview we entered the movie with. This emotional stability on her part makes it difficult for me to conclude that the point of the movie was to undercut our basic understandings of our place in the universe.

So I find it hard to believe the movie is supposed to be nihilistic and about the pointlessness of human existance. Since it's not really clearly about anything else either, I think it IS guilty of bringing stuff up about which it has nothing to say. When these questions are as deep and oft-discussed as our origins, the purpose of life, or our place in the universe, not saying ANYTHING about them requires real effort towards pointlessness.

[VanBuren]

Having not yet seen the movie, what if a movie doesn't answer questions, but rather gets the viewer to consider asking new ones?

[TSGames]

Having not yet seen the movie, what if a movie doesn't answer questions, but rather gets the viewer to consider asking new ones?

Then it wouldn't be this movie.

[Scowling Dragon]

Pretty much:

Its REALY not hard to ask questions and throw around symbolism. But is it a good story on its own?

[hamlet]

Well, like I said, I don't think they necessarily meant to. It is supposed to be a psychological / philosophical horror film. That was my understanding of it. The reason that so many diverse philosophical questions are vaguely asked throughout the film is that there isn't a central message or theme or point, other than sheer uncertainty and the horror of it. Some characters ask "Where did we come from?" Others "Why were we made?" Others "Are our makers angry with us?" Others question the notion of makers at all.

There isn't one single "question" being posed in the film. It is supposed to reflect the variety of questions that anyone in the audience might have, just like the variety of religious backgrounds that anyone might have. The vagueness is to draw you in, to invest yourself in the story with your own questions and doubts. The movie is "about" whatever you bring to the table.

That was my interpretation. It is the uncertainty of the vast blackness of space. It is supposed to be philosophically and psychologically unsettling... to tap into a fear deeper than monsters and aliens.

I think you're missing it, though.

In order to create a thoughtful movie, you don't have to answer any questions, but you do actually have to pose them. You have to bring up coherent questions.

The only really coherent question that gets posed is then immediately answered. "Are the "Engineers" our creators?" The answer is "Yes" and it's answered in a way that is so anti-climactic that it implies that it was never a question that we were supposed to be considering in the first place. Of course they are our creators, there are other things you're supposed to be thinking about here.

But what the hell are those things? The movie doesn't actually present enough to present a coherent thought directive. It's just a badly jumbled sophomoric mash of confused symbology that is about as coherent as if somebody took a copy of Bullfinch's Mythology and dropped it into an industrial shredder. There's no coherent anything here to latch onto in order to even begin discussion of the movie. It's wholly incoherent as well as shallow and tepid.

It's a bad movie.

[ThePhantasm]

It's just a badly jumbled sophomoric mash of confused symbology that is about as coherent as if somebody took a copy of Bullfinch's Mythology and dropped it into an industrial shredder.

My friend, you just also described LOST. Lindelof was also a lead writer there, just as he co-wrote the script for Prometheus. LOST was a constant mishmash of religious imagery from a hodgepodge of faiths. Here I have no doubt they were trying to do the same thing with the bizarre mixture of various faiths, mythologies, science theories, etc. Of course they weren't going to settle on one answer or theme. LOST never had that one answer or theme either, instead it was about being LOST in the midst of a mysterious world, and finding comfort despite that in various ways (faith, love for others, etc.)

Your statement that "to create a thoughtful movie, you don't have to answer any questions, but you do have to pose them" is of course your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Heck, I love those kinds of movies too, and I'm probably inclined to agree. But I don't think Lindelof or even Ridley Scott necessarily do. Their film is too far postmodern to be so straightforward. Rather than asking the questions, it embraces the fact that not everyone asks the questions in the same way.

One final thought: I don't think the vague question(s) of the film were ever meant to be centered solely on human origins. That question was answered in the very first scene. It was their initial motivation for seeking out their "Makers," sure, but I don't think it was that per se that was supposed to get the audience thinking. The questions aren't of origin but teleology. And yes they are vague.

I'm not saying the movie is not open to critique on these grounds. I'm just trying to interpret the movie as I saw it. If you guys are going to critique the movie, don't do it on the basis of its perceived failure to do what it wasn't even trying to do in the first place (how about that for an awkward sentence!). I'm fine with a critique of the symbolic vagueness, the lack of straightfoward questions, etc.... I had many of those critiques about LOST. I'm just trying to flesh out why the movie is the way it is to begin with.

[hamlet]

My friend, you just also described LOST. Lindelof was also a lead writer there, just as he co-wrote the script for Prometheus. LOST was a constant mishmash of religious imagery from a hodgepodge of faiths. Here I have no doubt they were trying to do the same thing with the bizarre mixture of various faiths, mythologies, science theories, etc. Of course they weren't going to settle on one answer or theme. LOST never had that one answer or theme either, instead it was about being LOST in the midst of a mysterious world, and finding comfort despite that in various ways (faith, love for others, etc.)

Your statement that "to create a thoughtful movie, you don't have to answer any questions, but you do have to pose them" is of course your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Heck, I love those kinds of movies too, and I'm probably inclined to agree. But I don't think Lindelof or even Ridley Scott necessarily do. Their film is too far postmodern to be so straightforward. Rather than asking the questions, it embraces the fact that not everyone asks the questions in the same way.

One final thought: I don't think the vague question(s) of the film were ever meant to be centered solely on human origins. That question was answered in the very first scene. It was their initial motivation for seeking out their "Makers," sure, but I don't think it was that per se that was supposed to get the audience thinking. The questions aren't of origin but teleology. And yes they are vague.

I'm not saying the movie is not open to critique on these grounds. I'm just trying to interpret the movie as I saw it. If you guys are going to critique the movie, don't do it on the basis of its perceived failure to do what it wasn't even trying to do in the first place (how about that for an awkward sentence!). I'm fine with a critique of the symbolic vagueness, the lack of straightfoward questions, etc.... I had many of those critiques about LOST. I'm just trying to flesh out why the movie is the way it is to begin with.

Lost was a pile of crap that nobody was brave enough to flush.

[ThePhantasm]

Lost was a pile of crap that nobody was brave enough to flush.

Well, there you have it. :smalltongue:

(I understand the critique completely, though I have to say I enjoyed LOST for the fun ride that it was, despite the lackluster ending. :smallwink: Actually, same with Prometheus. Once I knew what they were going for I lowered my expectations to the appropriate level and just enjoyed the ride.)

[darksolitaire]

Well, there you have it. :smalltongue:

(I understand the critique completely, though I have to say I enjoyed LOST for the fun ride that it was, despite the lackluster ending. :smallwink:

I stopped watching Lost after two seasons when I became sceptical that makers will explain all the weirdness and are just happy to pile mysteries and stuff. So...did it all make sense in the end? :smalltongue:

[ThePhantasm]

So...did it all make sense in the end? :smalltongue:

Yes and no. :smalltongue:

LOST's ending was both disappointing and also not as bad as some made it out to be. It really depended on what you were expecting going into it. I'd give you a longer more spoilery analysis but I'd rather not get into a lengthy discursus on LOST (which I doubt I could treat fully and satisfactorily here anyways). I'll just say certain aspects of LOST were genius and certain aspects were stupid.

It was not as vague as the ending to Prometheus. There's quite a few videos on Youtube about mysteries that LOST never answered, and those videos aren't totally accurate. The show implicitly answered quite a few things for viewers who were paying attention. A few other things were intentionally left mysterious. The show was never really about answering mysteries in-depth though, but was a postmodern show in which the Island stood for the universe in microcosm, and....

There I go, if I get started it'll be awhile before I stop, so I'll just say: the show is worth watching to the end. I don't regret watching it. At the same time, the show isn't for everyone. Its best to watch it through without having it spoiled though.

[Yora]

I stopped watching Lost after two seasons when I became sceptical that makers will explain all the weirdness and are just happy to pile mysteries and stuff. So...did it all make sense in the end? :smalltongue:
I've never seen it, but I once read an interview with the writers, who admited they had no clue at all where they would be going with the plot and just made it up as they went.

[Bhu]

Preety much. Despite his name being attached Abrams was only there first season and maybe some of the second. After that they just made it up as they went along to keep the cash cow going and when being told to wrap it up eventually due to declining ratings basically went 'aigh!'.

[ThePhantasm]

I've never seen it, but I once read an interview with the writers, who admited they had no clue at all where they would be going with the plot and just made it up as they went.

That's partially correct. They didn't really know where they were going with it until about midway through Season 3, which was when they plotted the rest of the series in broad strokes. It was at that point that they were able to figure out how many seasons it would take to finish the story.

[Philistine]

Well, there you have it. :smalltongue:

(I understand the critique completely, though I have to say I enjoyed LOST for the fun ride that it was, despite the lackluster ending. :smallwink: Actually, same with Prometheus. Once I knew what they were going for I lowered my expectations to the appropriate level and just enjoyed the ride.)

Media that is actually good and insightful doesn't require you to lower your expectations in order to appreciate it. If anything, it should raise your expectations for what can be done within the medium.

[ThePhantasm]

Media that is actually good and insightful doesn't require you to lower your expectations in order to appreciate it. If anything, it should raise your expectations for what can be done within the medium.

By "lowered expectations" I meant in terms of my subjective film criteria, not in terms of some objective criteria for good media. Basically I meant that I focused on the elements in the film that I could appreciate and enjoy, and didn't angst over how I would have made it differently in terms of philosophical content. I tend to be a "cup is half full" type in that regard.

[D+1]

There isn't one single "question" being posed in the film. It is supposed to reflect the variety of questions that anyone in the audience might have, just like the variety of religious backgrounds that anyone might have. The vagueness is to draw you in, to invest yourself in the story with your own questions and doubts. The movie is "about" whatever you bring to the table.Which makes it astrology, not philosophy. Just make the whole thing so vague that anyone can dream up stuff that can be made to fit into it and give it the ILLUSION of meaning something.

The more I consider this movie the more it comes off as atrocious writing, plotting and general filmmaking. It meant nothing. It managed to SAY or ASK nothing of particular interest or importance. All the ex post facto allusions and allegory that can be artfully hung on it don't change the fact that the film as presented was a pretentious mess that failed on nearly every level.

YMMV

[Agent 451]

So this, basically:

http://gifstumblr.com/images/what-the-author-meant-vs-what-your-english-teacher-thinks-the-author-meant_218.gif

I can get behind that.

[ThePhantasm]

Which makes it astrology, not philosophy. Just make the whole thing so vague that anyone can dream up stuff that can be made to fit into it and give it the ILLUSION of meaning something.

Um... how does that make it astrology? I'm suggesting it is operating from a form of postmodern epistemology / a philosophy of mystery, a la LOST. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs about the alignment of the stars (aside from the cave paintings, heh heh).

I think you guys are really trying to over-complicate the message of the movie. The movie is simply about creating an atmosphere of fear about uncertainty, one that goes deeper than the darkness and dread of Alien by taking that fear to a philosophical level. You don't maintain that atmosphere by shining a lot of light on philosophical questions or their answers. The movie is first and foremost a sci-fi horror film, and I appreciate what they were doing on that level.

And come on, "atrocious" general filmaking? The special effects and cinematography were gorgeous. I loved how most of their effects were practical and not CGI. You might not like the script and "plotting," by that's a different matter than the execution, which was visually amazing. I don't think the script was as bad as people are making it out to be either, but I've only seen it once so far (thinking of going again tomorrow).

One thing is for certain, this film is polarizing. Some people I talk to love it, others hate it. I like certain aspects of it. Maybe my standards just aren't high enough but I was entertained, and it gave me some stuff to muse over afterwards. I wouldn't call it a five star film, maybe 3.5-4. More enjoyable than the eternal cat-searching scenes of Alien, a bit less entertaining than Aliens.


So this, basically:

http://gifstumblr.com/images/what-the-author-meant-vs-what-your-english-teacher-thinks-the-author-meant_218.gif

I can get behind that.

Absolutely. Literary theory has had an understanding for some time now that the effect of a story is not merely contingent upon what ideas are expressed through the story, but what the reader (or viewer) brings to it. It is a give-and-take. Which is why stories spend so much time getting readers invested in them and trying to stimulate the reader's own creativity and thinking, getting them involved. The reader becomes more active than passive.

[Bhu]

I think you guys are really trying to over-complicate the message of the movie. The movie is simply about creating an atmosphere of fear about uncertainty, one that goes deeper than the darkness and dread of Alien by taking that fear to a philosophical level. You don't maintain that atmosphere by shining a lot of light on philosophical questions or their answers. The movie is first and foremost a sci-fi horror film, and I appreciate what they were doing on that level.

See thats it's main problem. It's supposed to generate fear and uncertainty. But it doesn't. They telegraph everything way in advance. There's no suspense, there's no dread, there's just long stretches of meh punctuated by pointless action scenes stuck in to keep audiences from falling asleep. When I saw it people were laughing their ass off during the cesarean scene because it came across as cartoonish, and a lot of them walked out long before then. If you're making a straight horror film and the overall reaction is boredom or unintentional hilarity, you have failed spectacularly.


And come on, "atrocious" general filmaking? The special effects and cinematography were gorgeous. I loved how most of their effects were practical and not CGI. You might not like the script and "plotting," by that's a different matter than the execution, which was visually amazing. I don't think the script was as bad as people are making it out to be either, but I've only seen it once so far (thinking of going again tomorrow).



Editing and scriptwriting are large parts of the film making process. The cinematography was beautiful and the effects were good, but if you're editor and writers are fundamentally flawed that doesn't mean much. You've essentially made a really pretty rock. It's nice to look at but there's nothing there but that surface beauty. Prometheus is a pretty rock. It felt okay for the setup but once it got moving in the second act my general impression was "I'm not going to see anything I haven't seen done in films a thousand times before. Even the repeated stuff, isn't going to be done well enough to sustain interest." I had the same impression by the end. It's box office is ... kind of bad for the money they spent for it. I'm already seeing some people blame it for the Ninja Turtles remake being placed on hold indefinitely.

[Scowling Dragon]

Or maybe, just maybe-Michael bay got some common sense.

[nihil8r]

here's a good criticism of the movie from the youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0

:smallsmile:

[nihil8r]

IMHO, all these efforts to shoehorn the script of Prometheus in a coherent allegory of some sort are a complete waste of time.

We're not talking about an otherwise coherent story, where everything makes sense, and all the pieces of the puzzle fit perfectly in the end. We're talking about Damon Lindelof, mmkay?

I enjoyed Prometheus immensely, because it was breathtakingly beautiful, and it had spaceships and planets and alien monsters and chases and stuff. Also, it had a very intriguing android. It was stupendously directed, but the script was a mess. If you gave this script to a lesser director (with a lesser budget), you'd have trash. If you gave this director a brilliant script instead, you'd have a masterpiece. We got neither.

...

I'm not opposed to inserting mythical elements and symbolism in a story, not even in a science fiction story. However, your story won't automatically become "deep" if you randomly dump references to 3000-years-old myths. You gotta know what you're doing. You gotta have something to say in the first place - even if that something is another question and not an answer.

In short, the entire purpose of a symbol is to, well, symbolize: to hint at something else. It's a means to an end.

The tale of Prometheus has been used through the years (from Hesiod to Aeschylus and from Anatole France to Erich Fromm), to symbolize a whole lot of things. For some authors, it was foolish insubordination, followed by rightly deserved retribution - despite the good intentions. For others, it was a heroic rebellion against the supreme leader, a valiant act of defiance. For some it was self-sacrifice, for some it was wisdom, for some it was creation, for some it was destruction. Depending on what you want to say, Prometheus can be anything, from a reckless fool to a wise creator to Robin freaking Hood.

...And I ask you. What THE HECK did Lindelof want to say with the tale of Prometheus? I'll tell you. He had no idea. He was just throwing mythical and religious elements in the mix, hoping some of the material's original depth (or dread, or general sense of wonder) will somehow rub off into his script. Or at least, hoping that people will be so impressed by the highbrow references, that they'll say "ooooh, that's deep, man!"

Well, it isn't. Sheesh. :smalltongue:

i agree, and i hope you find your head soon. :smallsmile:

[Velaryon]

I'm already seeing some people blame it for the Ninja Turtles remake being placed on hold indefinitely.

If that's true then my opinion of this film has just improved substantially.

I saw the film opening weekend, and my initial impression was that it was exceedingly mediocre. It doesn't help that I've never seen any of the Alien films, and I admit that I missed much of the symbolism in Prometheus. I've been following this thread which has sparked my thoughts and led me to reanalyze what I saw. I haven't gone to see it again since having all this in mind, but when it comes out on Netflix I may give it another viewing to see if it looks better with all the additional context.

I appreciate the symbolism to an extent, but I do think that when it forces the characters to act in stupid, unbelievable ways in order to fit in with all the references to mythology and so on, the film loses a bit. And it's still true that most of the characters brought little or nothing to the film other than more gruesome ways to see someone die. I can't even remember the names of most of them. For that matter, did all of them even have names?

[Bhu]

\ For that matter, did all of them even have names?

Nope. Peek at the credits in imdb

[Giegue]

I just saw this a few days ago and I didn't think it was crap. Sure, it tried and failed at being philosophical, but in all honesty who was there to see a deep philosophical dialogue between the characters? Deep down, we all know that most people went into the theaters looking for visuals, death scenes, creatures and because the film was related to Alien, and in those regards the film delivers. Sure, the writing was not the best, sure, the characters where bleh but the film delivered in the visual department and FINALLY showed us the Space Jockys, which was admittedly the main reason I wanted to see the film.

Also...while this may make me sound a tad disturbed I thought the beta xenomorph/"Proto Alien" at the end was absolutely adorable. Seriously. I wanted to cuddle and hug that adorable little monster like it was a puppy as soon as it crawled on screen. Then again I find snakes and spiders to be adorable...so I have an odd idea of "cute"...

[Agent 451]

Haha! When we saw it opening night my partner had the same reaction: "Awwww, it's so cute!"

[hamlet]

I just saw this a few days ago and I didn't think it was crap. Sure, it tried and failed at being philosophical, but in all honesty who was there to see a deep philosophical dialogue between the characters? Deep down, we all know that most people went into the theaters looking for visuals, death scenes, creatures and because the film was related to Alien, and in those regards the film delivers. Sure, the writing was not the best, sure, the characters where bleh but the film delivered in the visual department and FINALLY showed us the Space Jockys, which was admittedly the main reason I wanted to see the film.

Also...while this may make me sound a tad disturbed I thought the beta xenomorph/"Proto Alien" at the end was absolutely adorable. Seriously. I wanted to cuddle and hug that adorable little monster like it was a puppy as soon as it crawled on screen. Then again I find snakes and spiders to be adorable...so I have an odd idea of "cute"...

Actually, this is largely my opinion of the movie. Yeah, it was fairly enjoyable.

My problem is twofold.

1. The characters were so phenomenally stupid it was painful. But that's a fault of lazy script writing.

2. As pointed out, it tried to be philosophical, but failed so miserably that it hurt. If it had just resigned itself to being an action blockbuster, it would have been a better movie for it. It tried very hard to recapture the feel of the first Alien movie, and failed to do so. Spectacularly.


And the final proto/beta Alien at the end was conspicuously CGI. It would have been better, really, if they went back to putting a tall thin guy into a suit for it. That alien was scarier than any of the computer generated things that followed.

[Tyndmyr]

I liked how after bludgeoning her way to the surgery room and staggering out covered in blood and staples, nobody does a damned thing about it.

Hell, the two guards she bludgeoned go with her on the next expedition to the caves. No mention of "hey, about that alien baby" or "Why did you beat me savagely about the head and neck?". Nope, they all just had a massive case of forgetting everything.

[hamlet]

I liked how after bludgeoning her way to the surgery room and staggering out covered in blood and staples, nobody does a damned thing about it.

Hell, the two guards she bludgeoned go with her on the next expedition to the caves. No mention of "hey, about that alien baby" or "Why did you beat me savagely about the head and neck?". Nope, they all just had a massive case of forgetting everything.

Yeah, I kind of chuckled at that, too, but figured by that point nobody writing that script was paying any attention to such petty things as logic anymore.

[Dumbledore lives]

Well I saw it, and pretty much every criticism, especially Spoony's was right on. I'm not as angry at it as some geeks seem to be, because for me I had no expectations, in fact I was expecting it to be disappointing and a bit crap, and that's kind of what I got. It was a profoundly stupid movie, wrapped up in something that aspired to be grander, but really wasn't. Plus the sequel hook just felt cheap.

[Bhu]

Yeah, I kind of chuckled at that, too, but figured by that point nobody writing that script was paying any attention to such petty things as logic anymore.

Wait'll you see the cut scene where she fights an Engineer afterwards...

[Ramza00]

I liked how after bludgeoning her way to the surgery room and staggering out covered in blood and staples, nobody does a damned thing about it.

Hell, the two guards she bludgeoned go with her on the next expedition to the caves. No mention of "hey, about that alien baby" or "Why did you beat me savagely about the head and neck?". Nope, they all just had a massive case of forgetting everything.

The reason that all changed was that Weyland was woken up. Weyland was trying several things to stave off the grimreaper and his instrustment was David. Weyland had two big gambits/plans.
1) Either meet the Engineers and hope the Engineers being benevolent gods and teach him how to live forever/heal him.
2) If he can't meat the Engineers (for example they are all dead) then find about their technology and their genetics. Shaw prior to the leaving Earth fro the moon had a hypothesus that the Engineers genes were similar to human genes (a fact that was later proven to be true.)


In the beginning of the movie they were having no good luck with tactic 1.
David read the dreams of Weyland who told him to try harder.
David thinks up the idea of infecting Holloway with the black ooze.
David ask would Holloway do anything to meet his maker. Holloway says yes not realizing what he just agreed to (be careful what you wish for).
Holloway infected with black ooze gets Shaw pregnant.


Then the second trip happened
In the second trip David discovers the Engineer in status so they can go back to plan 1) with trying to save Weyland
Holloway gets sick and is burnt to a crisp
Shaw is discovered to be pregnant with an alien. Even though David is trying to plan 1 Shaw's alien baby is now a backup option thus David tries to get her to go into status just in case they need to study the Alien baby in case plan 1 fails
Shaw escapes and performs the Cesarian, in theory killing the baby alien.
Weyland wakes up, David no longer cares about the second plan for this was the backup plan and plan 1 is still looking likely.

[Tyndmyr]

Why is Shaw's baby a plan at all? There is absolutely no reason to expect that outcome, or for the baby to be at all helpful.

To recap, the black ooze does the following:
Creates all life on earth.
Makes aliens(who are genetically "the exact same" as us somehow) explode.
Makes geologists into zombies.
Makes grubs(who have been chilling for 2000 years there) into arm-breaking worms with an oral fixation.
Makes your sperm into magical-alien-impregnating stuff. Note that the following alien will grow from a tiny baby to a one ton monster in an afternoon, in a sealed room without food.
And sometimes, nothing at all.

It's kind of a giant plot device that is never explained at all, and David has absolutely no reason to suspect that infecting his fellow passengers is going to be at all helpful.

But regardless of David's plan, shouldn't someone at least be like "hey, uh, why the surgery and the clubbing me?". It's not like any of the other crewmen are privy to david's secrets.

Not that I cared at all about Shaw and co. She was this giant ball of unsupported assumptions and "Faith!", but pretty much no actual characterization. Most of the other chars were no better, they apparently didn't even bother to name most of them.

[Yora]

What is the vlack stuff? It's "we don't know either how to make a plot out of this, we just wanted to shot these scenes and play around with the footage in post-production". :smallamused:

[Bhu]

According to the writers it's a bio weapon the Engineers were developing to wipe us out, or got out of control when it came into contact with humans, or something else. They appear to have not made their minds up entirely pending whether or not they get sequel permission. At least not publicly.

As I understand it it has yet to make back it's money. The Budget was 120-130 mill (or at least thats the closest guess anyone has) and the marketing has to be at least that much meaning it needs to to about 240-260 mil to break even. It's at 222 now and slowing down fast, so a sequel seems unlikely unless it's low budget without ridley scott.

[Saph]

OK, just saw it, and I'm curious about something.

Right at the end, when Shaw tells decapitated-David that she wants to take a ship back to where the Engineers came from, the reason she gives is that she wants to ask them "why".

But the first reason I thought of was something along the lines of "They tried to wipe us out with a genocidal bioweapon, let's see how those ****ers like it".

Does anyone else think that would have been a much cooler ending? :smallbiggrin:

[TSGames]

OK, just saw it, and I'm curious about something.

Right at the end, when Shaw tells decapitated-David that she wants to take a ship back to where the Engineers came from, the reason she gives is that she wants to ask them "why".

But the first reason I thought of was something along the lines of "They tried to wipe us out with a genocidal bioweapon, let's see how those ****ers like it".

Does anyone else think that would have been a much cooler ending? :smallbiggrin:

1000 x yes

[Kyberwulf]

Anyone else get the feeling, the movie was made... and The people making the game relized... This is gonna be a crappy movie. They must have said to themselves/// "I know, lets make this an prequel to Aliens. That will sell tickets."...first.. lets change the name of the Evil Corp into Wayland/Yutani.... then..um OH yeah .. lets change the name of the Evil alien overlords to THE Engineers!...and then their space suits make some slight alterations that that... change the planet name tooooo LV- random numbers. Finally,.. we will put some Alien ... looking thing at the end.


Yea.... that will sell tickets nicely...


-_-'

My biggest beef.. is that alien at the end looked NOTHING like the Aliens that we are used too. I KNOW they change a little depending on the host.. but that thing was like... a mutated CONEHEAD....

[Philistine]

The other way around. Prometheus was originally supposed to be a straight-up prequel for Alien, but was changed at some point during the process to "an exploration of the fictional universe of the Alien franchise, but not tied directly to the earlier films in any way" instead.

[ThePhantasm]

...first.. lets change the name of the Evil Corp into Wayland/Yutani....

That wasn't a change. The Evil Corp has had that name in the franchise since Aliens. And it is Weyland, not Wayland.

[Tyndmyr]

OK, just saw it, and I'm curious about something.

Right at the end, when Shaw tells decapitated-David that she wants to take a ship back to where the Engineers came from, the reason she gives is that she wants to ask them "why".

But the first reason I thought of was something along the lines of "They tried to wipe us out with a genocidal bioweapon, let's see how those ****ers like it".

Does anyone else think that would have been a much cooler ending? :smallbiggrin:

Yes. God, yes. Prometheus just couldn't frigging stop asking questions without answering them.

Also, yes, the alien at the end just looked wrong.

[Kyberwulf]

Thank you!..

All my friends who saw the movie where like.. YEAH ... That looked like an Alien.... >.< ... i think they just said that to mess with me.

[ThePhantasm]

It wasn't supposed to look exactly like the aliens from the main franchise. It hasn't evolved there yet.

Furthermore, we've never before seen an alien that came from an Engineer. As we know, the aliens seem to take certain attributes from their host (i.e. the cow alien from Alien 3).

[Tyndmyr]

It wasn't supposed to look exactly like the aliens from the main franchise. It hasn't evolved there yet.

That's...kind of odd. It doesn't seem that ridiculously far off tech/timeline wise.


Furthermore, we've never before seen an alien that came from an Engineer. As we know, the aliens seem to take certain attributes from their host (i.e. the cow alien from Alien 3).

Problem, engineers are genetically identical to people. The movie takes pains to explicitly repeat this.

Ugh.

[Kyberwulf]

THis movie takes place something like 30 years before Alien i thought?

[Dumbledore lives]

THis movie takes place something like 30 years before Alien i thought?

I think it's actually something like 150-200, but I could be wrong.

[ThePhantasm]

Problem, engineers are genetically identical to people. The movie takes pains to explicitly repeat this.

Who said genetics was the key factor here? They are genetically identical to humans, but they are clearly very different from Earth-humans in size, pigmentation, and other features.

Similarly the creature that spawned from the Engineer could be "genetically identical" to the xenomorphs without having the exact same appearance.

[king.com]

Who said genetics was the key factor here? They are genetically identical to humans, but they are clearly very different from Earth-humans in size, pigmentation, and other features.

Similarly the creature that spawned from the Engineer could be "genetically identical" to the xenomorphs without having the exact same appearance.

They put the stuff in the Computamotron 9000 and it told them it was a perfect genetic match. Hence the....that doesnt make any sense. They should have upgraded to the Computamotron 10,000 but it doesnt do Females so they didnt want to take that risk I guess.

The real question is..why show it at all? It adds nothing, serves no purpose and only works to make people frustrated that it doesnt match up with what its supposed to be a prequel of. They could have had the same effect with the Engineer running to the ship and jumping in the cockpit and a chest burster popping out. Done, everything can be acceptable with zero impact on whats going on. Instead you have a 100 questions about why nothing makes any sense and why theres no explanation of whats going on.

Hell that single scene is a microcosm of the movie. Something happens for unexplained reasons, the characters proceeded to make a poor and irrational decision. Apply pseudo-philosophy and SYMBOLISM. Never explain what anything is or why.

[Yora]

That's what happend when you write a plot that is so convoluted that when you start cutting parts, you lose track of what other scenes rely on information from the removed scenes.

[VanBuren]

That wasn't a change. The Evil Corp has had that name in the franchise since Aliens. And it is Weyland, not Wayland.

Other way around, I think. He's not accusing them of retconning Alien, but of changing the name of the company in Prometheus to ham-fistedly force it into being a prequel.

[Kyberwulf]

That last scene.. i hate it for so many reasons..... heres what i think happens after that...

The Alien seeing the dead body of his host.. gets so.. um..teary eye'd, at is sacrifice for it. It Lovingly carries the dead body up to the Pilots chair. As it stands up while holding the body, it clumsily hits its head on the small cealing thereby smacking the bulley shape out of its new born baby head.. (think of how Stewie griffion got his head shaped).

It then Places the Engineer lovingly on the Pilot's Chair, and the Machinie automagically puts the scary breating thing on the dead body.

Then Vowing vengence... it swears to Destroy all humans.


I got nothing for the Teeth or the Extra mouth. That is Hard to explain away?
someone help me to make that make sense.

[Philistine]

That last scene.. i hate it for so many reasons..... heres what i think happens after that...

The Alien seeing the dead body of his host.. gets so.. um..teary eye'd, at is sacrifice for it. It Lovingly carries the dead body up to the Pilots chair. As it stands up while holding the body, it clumsily hits its head on the small cealing thereby smacking the bulley shape out of its new born baby head.. (think of how Stewie griffion got his head shaped).

It then Places the Engineer lovingly on the Pilot's Chair, and the Machinie automagically puts the scary breating thing on the dead body.

Then Vowing vengence... it swears to Destroy all humans.


I got nothing for the Teeth or the Extra mouth. That is Hard to explain away?
someone help me to make that make sense.

As it happens, it's very easy to make sense of all of this: you just have to remember that Prometheus is not a prequel to Alien. The ending situation of this movie doesn't lead to the starting situation of the other, at all - the first and most obvious clue is that they're set on completely different planets (LV-223 vs "Acheron" or LV-426), so there's no reason why this Engineer ship and Space Jockey are the same ones from the other movie. And it's not necessary for these Xenomorphs to look like those; they aren't the same, and if we don't know why they differ, well, we'll add it to the rather long list of unanswered questions from the movie.

[ThePhantasm]

Other way around, I think. He's not accusing them of retconning Alien, but of changing the name of the company in Prometheus to ham-fistedly force it into being a prequel.

I don't see what you mean. Prometheus was always meant to be an Alien prequel. It wasn't some other sci-fi film that they decided at the last minute to force into being an Alien prequel.

[TSGames]

unanswered questions

Add an "in space" to the end, and I think we have better movie title. Or at least a more descriptive one....

[Philistine]

I don't see what you mean. Prometheus was always meant to be an Alien prequel. It wasn't some other sci-fi film that they decided at the last minute to force into being an Alien prequel.

But that's not universally known, because that is what Krome was speculating about just a couple of posts earlier. Just as it's not yet universally known that Scott and Lindeloff backed off of the direct prequel idea.

[Bhu]

That's...kind of odd. It doesn't seem that ridiculously far off tech/timeline wise.



Problem, engineers are genetically identical to people. The movie takes pains to explicitly repeat this.

Ugh.


It's about 150 years before alien which is odd that the film displays tech not common in the other films (and that seems more advanced). It's assumed that being on different planets the xenomorphs from Alien are just a different strain of the same bioweapon.


But if half of what i remember from biology isn't wrong the Engineers can't be an exact genetic match for us.

1: According to the writers they're supposed to be immortal or damn close to it. Biological immortality is not possible in humans that we know o.

2: At 15 ' tall they'd be arthritic cripples with bent spines by the time they were in their 50's, assuming their heart didn't explode before then. Also their body temp would be a nice 110 degrees. Which most humans couldn't survive. Edit: apparently they're only 7' tall.

3: They all look like perfect clones of each other. I realize like in most spfx films this is to save money so i can forgive that.



Edit : http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer oo nifty

[TSGames]

They all look like perfect clones of each other.

Woah.... Space discrimination is not cool, man.

[ThePhantasm]

You can read about the Proto-Xenomorph here too: http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Proto-Xenomorph

[Kyberwulf]

150 years before?

Prometheus- Takes place in 2089
Alien- takes place in 2122

>.>

I still don't buy the premise that this was suppose to be a Alien Prequel.
It just feels like they wrote a script then did some name-dropping, and put an psuedo-"Alien" at the end.

It likes the Movie, "Doom." If no one told you you where watching the Movie version of Doom, you would never have guessed the Title. It's the same with this movie.

Even if you harken back to the original Alien, it just didn't capture that same sense of suspence.

[ThePhantasm]

I still don't buy the premise that this was suppose to be a Alien Prequel.
It just feels like they wrote a script then did some name-dropping, and put an psuedo-"Alien" at the end.

It was going to be a prequel directed by James Cameron. After the Aliens vs. Predator stuff came out Cameron felt the franchise had been trashed so he didn't want a part of it anymore. The concept stayed in development hell until Ridley Scott came along. The script went through a number of iterations, first starting as a more direct prequel and then going off on a bit more of a tangent into a more unique story.

So yes, it was originally supposed to be an Alien prequel.

[Kyberwulf]

Was suppose to be, but that's not what it turned out to be. Which is my point. I mean you could say John Carter is an Alien Prequel. All you have to do is change the Planet from Mars into... LV-252... Instead of the Martians just call them Engineers, and then call the Green-skin ones, Aliens.. i mean they hatched from "eggs" right.

[Bhu]

150 years before?

Prometheus- Takes place in 2089
Alien- takes place in 2122

>.>


My bad, was looking at one of the older stories on it.

Scott said he wanted it to be more about the Space Jockey than the xenomorphs. In that respect he did what he wanted, although I was a little disappointed as the Space Jockey went from mysterious alien being to Men in Suits predicated on tired old themes that have been overused for the lst 40 years or so.

[Scowling Dragon]

CR (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/cr/crspecials/35703-crs-thought-on-prometheus) made an excellent review. Not only on its flaws, but commenting on what it could have been

[Agent 451]

Was suppose to be, but that's not what it turned out to be. Which is my point. I mean you could say John Carter is an Alien Prequel. All you have to do is change the Planet from Mars into... LV-252... Instead of the Martians just call them Engineers, and then call the Green-skin ones, Aliens.. i mean they hatched from "eggs" right.

It's a prequel. Is it a direct prequel? No, probably not. Think of it as Alien -2 (since there is an opening for at least one prequel sequel :smallbiggrin:).

Edit: Bhu, they aren't 7 feet tall. The entry says they are 7'+, meaning we have no idea other than they are bigger than we are :smallwink: Hmm, never mind, text trumps chart :smalltongue:

[Rake21]

So, jusst saw it last night. And it wasn't very good. I think my complaints will fall in line with everybody elses. The majority of the charecters idiots and/or jackasses, and I could care less that they die horribly. The science was rather ****ty (How did that thing gain 400 lbs in a locked room with no food?).

So, yeah nothing new on the complaint front. However, I will give film credit for one scene.That surgery scene? That was frigging brilliant. Tense, scary, and very original. I was on the edge of my seat for that entire 5 minute sequence. Really, really well done.

[soir8]

So, jusst saw it last night. And it wasn't very good. I think my complaints will fall in line with everybody elses. The majority of the charecters idiots and/or jackasses, and I could care less that they die horribly. The science was rather ****ty (How did that thing gain 400 lbs in a locked room with no food?).

So, yeah nothing new on the complaint front. However, I will give film credit for one scene.That surgery scene? That was frigging brilliant. Tense, scary, and very original. I was on the edge of my seat for that entire 5 minute sequence. Really, really well done.

The surgery scene I didn't find creepy or tense at all. In fact, it was the one scene that actually made me laugh out loud. I just couldn't help but imagine a crowd of little green 3-eyed aliens huddled in her open uterus, looking up in wonder and saying in unison "OOOOOOOOO, THE CLAAAAAAAAAAW!!!"

[Bhu]

The surgery scene I didn't find creepy or tense at all. In fact, it was the one scene that actually made me laugh out loud. I just couldn't help but imagine a crowd of little green 3-eyed aliens huddled in her open uterus, looking up in wonder and saying in unison "OOOOOOOOO, THE CLAAAAAAAAAAW!!!"


Now that was damn funny. Kudos to you sir.

[Rake21]

The surgery scene I didn't find creepy or tense at all. In fact, it was the one scene that actually made me laugh out loud. I just couldn't help but imagine a crowd of little green 3-eyed aliens huddled in her open uterus, looking up in wonder and saying in unison "OOOOOOOOO, THE CLAAAAAAAAAAW!!!"

... And that would have made the thing worthy of an Oscar:smalltongue:


I don't know. Maybe I was so starved for something good in the movie, I made the scene better by proxy. Then again, when it's competition includes the world's worst biologist deciding to poke what looks like an angry penis, it's not hard to be the better scene.