Tarrasque idea... too much? how to change if necessary

[inuyasha]

I am making a friend of mine make a party of 4 20th level characters using basically any rescources he could (spell compendium, defenders of faith, tome and blood, etc.) to go up against a titan and his pet... THE TARRASQUE. he has been playing a lot longer than I have :eek: . If you could please point out titan/tarrasque weaknesses and how to counter them that would be great or if you think I need to change something. (not too minor or major though, I just wanna stick with titan/tarrasque)
P.S. the titan has many magic items to protect himself such as: 2 rings of protection one +4 and one +5, +4 amulet of natural armor, +7 bracers of armor, a cloak of displacement (50% miss chance), and his weapon instead of a gargantuan warhammer is a gargantuan hammer of thunderbolts
:smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

Tarrasque dies to Allips or flying wizards who drop Shrink Item'd stuff because it has no way to defend itself against these things. At level 20, nobody should spend any time on the ground, that's for chumps.

Also, the Cloak of Displacement is only 20% miss chance. Its 50% cousin, the Greater Cloak of Displacement, requires a standard action to activate, and thus sucks.

[Fouredged Sword]

Alips and shadows should solve everything. Dread necromancer 20 should do it nicely. Shadows also work well. Have a few hundred of them and you are golden. Have them come up from under the titan and drain it to zero strength.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

wearing two rings of protection won't work, because bonuses of the same type don't stack

also, for your information:

a very optimized combat character can dish out thousands of damage on multiple targets per round, hitting 50+ AC

Nevertheless, casters are stronger (more dangerous) than that, in the hands of an experienced player.

Your titan+tarrasque are pretty much dead

[Feralventas]

wearing two rings of protection won't work, because bonuses of the same type don't stack

also, for your information:

a very optimized combat character can dish out thousands of damage on multiple targets per round, hitting 50+ AC

Nevertheless, casters are stronger (more dangerous) than that, in the hands of an experienced player.

Your titan+tarrasque are pretty much dead

If the plan is to use the normal MM1 stat-blocks for each of these, I would agree; the fight is over before it's begun.

However, if the DM using them is willing to put in the time, a fully optimized Tarrasque and Titan could be likewise potent to their PC counterparts.

For example, if the DM tosses on the Fey Heritage line of feats, granting the Tarrasque a 1/day Dimension Door to pick up the wizard out of a cloud and bring it down for a snack (presuming of course that the wizard decided that simple flight would suffice) or Martial Stance/Study, or feats to grant and boost Scent to absurd distances and accuracy.

Not to mention that the Tarrasque, being CR 20, would presumably also have enough magical gear for a level 20 character as well, so things like Jack of All Trades for UMD could grant it spells and psionics, as well as Iaijutsu to use in combination with Sapphire Nightmare Blade.

[*.*.*.*]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87000

This thread has some amazing ideas.

[Malachei]

You can make this more interesting by:

Customizing both Tarrasque and Titan Having the encounter take place in a crowded environment (cave) with low ceiling Having a timing factor (deadline) -- a cultist is calling a powerful extraplanar entity with a wicked ritual. His focus is the Tarrasque and the ritual is already set in motion. Unless the characters defeat the Tarrasque in a specific time-frame, they lose.


Putting the standard Tarrasque on open ground in a standard wilderness encounter setting is giving the players a quick win scenario and at the same time disenchanting one of the iconic monsters of D&D.

[BladeofObliviom]

Psh, regular Tarrasques are chumps. If you want a real threat, apply the Ghost template and have fun. :smallamused:

The Ghost template is legal, so you don't get complaints for cheating, it makes the Tarrasque no longer subject to damage (since Regeneration turns all lethal to nonlethal, and undead ignore nonlethal), and now it can Fly. :smalleek:

[Little Brother]

THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8698138&postcount=31) is the Tarrasque.No other Tarrasque exists, at least in any game I ever plan on playing.

Wait, I take that back. Tarrasques are decent mooks, for a BBEG to have in massive numbers. Toned-down, but still Emerald Legion-style.

Blade: No con score=no regen. Doesn't work.

[JeminiZero]

The Ghost template is legal, so you don't get complaints for cheating, it makes the Tarrasque no longer subject to damage (since Regeneration turns all lethal to nonlethal, and undead ignore nonlethal), and now it can Fly. :smalleek:

That doesn't quite work. Ghost as an undead template removes the Tarrasque's Con score. And since a creature must have a con score to have Regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration), this also removes their Regen.

For a Tarrasque, perhaps the most important thing is some means of Flight (or equivalent effect like Martial Stance Balance in the Sky). One way is to take a flaw (like Shakey), and then take both Dragontouched [Dragon Magic pg 18] and Dragon Wings [Races of Dragon pg 100] on 1st level. Then Improved Dragon Wings on L6.

If you can somehow squeeze in immunity to Ability Drain without losing the Con score, that would be great as well, but is significantly harder to accomplish. (IIRC only Voidmind template grants it, but that is limited to huge size).

[Prime32]

Have the tarrasque take Steadfast Determination (PHB2) for a massive boost to Will saves, and it can no longer fail Fort saves on a natural 1 (meaning you can't kite it with death spells until it fails a save).

Give it the Shape Soulmeld (strongheart vest) and Bonus Essentia feats from Magic of Incarnum, and one other feat that grants essentia. Now it can't be killed by allips.

There's an item which lets you cast a spell into it, then counter that spell when cast against you once. Give the tarrasque one and have someone cast wish.

Give it flight with a fixed speed, like that solar wings item (BoED I think).

[Larkas]

I would stack some templates on the Tarrasque. I'd say give it Savage Species' Winged Creature template, but unfortunately it can't be applied to Magical Beasts.

- Draconic Creature, from Draconomicon, enables what JeminiZero suggested without flaws and with only a 1 point increase in CR, but the flight speed is somewhat slow (as it would be, anyways).

- Half-dragon will give it 40ft. flight speed with average maneuverability without the use of feats, and also gives it the dragon type, so it's eligible for Draconomicon's Improved Speed feat, which will increase it to 60ft. (and it's land speed to 30ft.). If you want it to look really badass, make it a half-fang dragon, though I'd give it something along the lines of an increase to its natural weapons' damage dice and a scalable DC to its Constitution draining bite (DC 10 + 1/2 half-dragon’s racial HD + half-dragon’s Con modifier).

- Air Element, from Manual of the Planes, will give it a 100ft. flight speed with perfect maneuverability, a few immunities (poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, critical hits), damage reduction 10/magic (which the Tarrasque's 15/epic pretty much supersedes, but at least is something), free Flyby Attack, +6 Dex and a few other things.

- Shadow Creature, still from MP, will increase its land speed to 30 ft., give it cold resistance, Shadow Blend, Mirror Image 1/day, Plane Shift 1/day, Evasion and some other things.

- Monster of Legend, from MM2. It isn't a Tarrasque if it doesn't have Monster of Legend slapped onto it. Really, take a look, it gives it lots of nice things.

As always, some, if not all, of these templates can be stacked on top of each other. And don't forget to give it some way to charge. Necklace of Natural Weapons is a given too: Valorous for double damage on a charge for giggles, Ghost Touch if you have to punish ethereal casters shenanigans... Anyways, be creative! The Tarrasque can be a lot more challenging if built creatively. :smallwink:

[ericgrau]

Kiting only works if fighting the Tarrasque in a vacuum. Even allied party members can sometimes prevent that, if not some part of the plot. So include some such thing that T will go after.

Beyond that, T is meant to defend against most things in core. Once new attacks become available, defenses automatically become weaker. If some attack beyond core is available, then make T immune/resistant to that as well. Since you made all books available you have a big task in front of you. Basically as people point out tricks that actually hurt T (not merely avoid, see kiting above), then add them to your list and figure out what to give to T.

For the Titan you should also include utility things such as a flight magic item, something to see invisibility, etc. Fortunately titans already come with invisibility purge. Also note the invisibility rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility) for noticing invisible foes; it's as low as a DC 0 listen if your foes are careless. Higher otherwise, but a titan has +32. Even without spending a turn on invisibility purge it is often a DC 20 and then with his blind fight feat he has a 25% chance of missing. Like T consider what unusual attacks the player might use and have something ready. Some source of ability damage/drain immunity would be nice, for example, if you allow abuse like mass allips or shivering touch. EDIT: Apparently for T as well.

Maze is really good for taking out a dumb foe without a save. Quicken spell like ability is great for any of his many spell like abilities. If the player knows he will be fighting a titan, you might want to swap chain lightning for a different quickened spell in case he comes with electricity resistance.

[Flickerdart]

Allips don't inflict ability damage, they do ability drain, against which the tarrasque is utterly powerless.