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View Full Version : The Orc to my half-orc fix, PEACH



Empedocles
2012-06-03, 09:36 PM
My single best received piece of homebrew, besides maybe the voldur, was my half-orc fix. This is the orc to go alongside it, but the two are not related crunch wise.


The Orc

http://i.imgur.com/a1Jfkl.jpg


"Take your battle. I shall bring you war."

Orcs are anathema to civilization, seen as a corrupt and brutal parody of it, yet still a product of it. They descended from the ogres and giants, born in the slave pits of massive coliseums to do battle for entertainment, and then later, for armies. But the orcs surpassed their masters, rising to become one of the universe's dominant species. As demons are to angels, so to are orcs to humans.

Personality: Orcs are savage and terrible, regarding violence as the end-all-be-all solution to the world's woes. Despite this, they are far from stupid, possessing an uncanny sort of predator's cunning. This, combined with their deadly brute strength, has made them a true threat to civilization.

Physical Description: Orcs are massive, standing well over six and a half feet, every inch of it covered in rippling muscle. Their skin is a sort of grayish-green, and they possess tusks of varying size. They favor light but protective clothing, and will wear jewelry they take from a slain foe, although that's the only time they deign to decorate themselves.

Relations: Elves hunt them. Humans and halflings fear them. Gnomes are intrigued by them, but avoid them nontheless. Orcs hate them all. They get along better with a few monstrous species like ogres, goblins, and gnolls.

Orc Lands: Orcs dwell in the most inhospitable environments, usually in small, isolated tribes. Occasionally, an orc will unite them, and when that happens, all who stand in their path trembles. Luckily for the world, it's a rare occasion that one orc climbs the corpses to the top.

Religion: Orcs worship primordial gods of strength, and the most powerful of their ancestors.

Orc Racial Traits
+4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma. Orcs are incredibly strong, but lack any sort of grace or charm.
Medium. As medium creatures, orcs have no special bonuses or penalties related to size.
Base land speed of 30 feet.
Weapon Proficiencies: An orc is automatically proficient with one martial weapon of his choice, and orc double axes are treated as being martial weapons for all orcs.
Smash: An orc's unarmed attacks are always treated as being lethal. Any item an orc attempts to sunder, including weapons, is treated as having a hardness 5 points lower then its actual hardness (cannot be lower then 0).
Ferocity: An orc remains conscious and can continue fighting even if his hit point total is below 0. He is is still staggered and loses 1 hit point each round. A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.
Orcs suffer a -6 penalty on attack rolls in which they attempt to deal nonlethal damage, as opposed to the normal -4.
+2 racial bonus on all Survival checks.
+2 racial bonus on all Intimidate checks.
We Are Predators: An orc gains the ranger's favored enemy ability for one race of his choice.
Automatic Languages: Orc. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Barbarian.

Kazyan
2012-06-04, 04:21 PM
Something about the way you've written this really solidifies what orcs are. They are Not Nice and not a PC's fodder.

The race is no longer locked out of roles that aren't Thog, too. That's how races should be.

Smash is a very nice toy. I'm concerned about being able to break pretty much anything you want at ECL 1, but then again, this is an Orc. We Are Hunters rounds out the race well, and the name says it all. Ominous.

Empedocles
2012-06-04, 05:27 PM
Something about the way you've written this really solidifies what orcs are. They are Not Nice and not a PC's fodder.

The race is no longer locked out of roles that aren't Thog, too. That's how races should be.

Smash is a very nice toy. I'm concerned about being able to break pretty much anything you want at ECL 1, but then again, this is an Orc. We Are Hunters rounds out the race well, and the name says it all. Ominous.

Thanks :smallsmile: That's pretty much what I was going for.

Larkas
2012-06-04, 11:08 PM
Hah! Great work again, Vilpich! Subscribed!

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 10:59 AM
Hah! Great work again, Vilpich! Subscribed!

Thanks! I think I should stick to orcs from now on..........

Sneaky Weasel
2012-06-05, 05:43 PM
In one word: Amazing. I don't know how, but you've made orcs seem cool.

Now I'm thinking I'll have to run a campaign based entirely on your orcs and half-orcs, and their interactions with humans. I just can't wait to use them, period.

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 05:45 PM
In one word: Amazing. I don't know how, but you've made orcs seem cool.

Now I'm thinking I'll have to run a campaign based entirely on your orcs and half-orcs, and their interactions with humans. I just can't wait to use them, period.

Thankyou so much! I really appreciate it :biggrin:

Dark Elf Bard
2012-06-05, 05:48 PM
I love it. You've taken the classic orc and somehow made it as awesome as a drow.

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 05:49 PM
I love it. You've taken the classic orc and somehow made it as awesome as a drow.

What stuck out to me here is that your name is Dark Elf Bard...but you're an orc in the playground :smalltongue:

Thanks for the compliments though! Definitely keeps me motivated.

Any criticisms/suggestions?

Dark Elf Bard
2012-06-05, 05:51 PM
I don't quite understand why the orcs have -2 Dex. They're the classic 'brutish warrior', but I still think that knowing how to hold a weapon is as important as smashing it. Maybe instead of Dex... I'm not sure. Thoughts?

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 05:54 PM
I don't quite understand why the orcs have -2 Dex. They're the classic 'brutish warrior', but I still think that knowing how to hold a weapon is as important as smashing it. Maybe instead of Dex... I'm not sure. Thoughts?

I struggled with this too, but it made the most sense. Wisdom penalty, and you lose the predatory cunning. Intelligence penalty and we're back to square one (ME SMASH). Constitution penalty, and, well...........:smallannoyed:

Shadow Lord
2012-06-05, 05:55 PM
The only real problem I have with this is that it makes an Orc a better Wizard then a Sorcerer.

But, otherwise, it's very neat, and certainly feels like an Orc.

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 05:57 PM
The only real problem I have with this is that it makes an Orc a better Wizard then a Sorcerer.

But, otherwise, it's very neat, and certainly feels like an Orc.

I'm alright with that. Orc's really do need the charisma penalty I think. It makes by far the most sense for them. As to sorcerer vs. wizard, I might do some racial substitution levels that let you base spontaneous casting on intelligence, or possibly wisdom.

Dark Elf Bard
2012-06-05, 05:57 PM
I struggled with this too, but it made the most sense. Wisdom penalty, and you lose the predatory cunning. Intelligence penalty and we're back to square one (ME SMASH). Constitution penalty, and, well...........:smallannoyed:

Yes... I still think Int makes the most sense, along with the whole wizard-to-sorcerer thing. But either could work.

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 05:58 PM
Yes... I still think Int makes the most sense, along with the whole wizard-to-sorcerer thing. But either could work.

I loathe intelligence penalties, to be honest. They automatically make a race inferior, I think. No one can take the stupid hulk all that seriously.

Morph Bark
2012-06-05, 06:08 PM
Vilpich...

I just want to say, you're the orc. :smallcool:

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 06:23 PM
Vilpich...

I just want to say, you're the orc. :smallcool:

Feeling pretty legit right now :smallcool:

*cue epic theme music*

Dark Elf Bard
2012-06-05, 06:25 PM
Wait! You have to talk like this.

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 06:27 PM
Wait! You have to talk like this.

Like this? Obviously.

elvenranger14
2012-06-05, 06:42 PM
While I was browsing through the homebrew section i cam across your half elf-orc hybrid. I have to say that out of all your work I have seen, this is only beat by the voldur. (hope I spelt that right.) I may have to show this to my group.

Dark Elf Bard
2012-06-05, 06:47 PM
Like this? Obviously.

Rar! Gruumsh win war!

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 06:53 PM
While I was browsing through the homebrew section i cam across your half elf-orc hybrid. I have to say that out of all your work I have seen, this is only beat by the voldur. (hope I spelt that right.) I may have to show this to my group.

Hmmm. I personally like my half-orc fix more then the voldur, but I appreciate the love for it :smallsmile:

And you should definitely show this to your group :smallamused:

GnomeGninjas
2012-06-05, 06:55 PM
I like it. Its short,simple, and really brutal. It fits the orc perfectly.

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 07:03 PM
I like it. Its short,simple, and really brutal. It fits the orc perfectly.

Thanks. :smallsmile: I can be short and simple too! BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! In all seriousness thankyou for the compliments. Every time I do an orc homebrew it's like an ego-booster.

Virdish
2012-06-05, 07:05 PM
I have to add my voice to the love this orc bandwagon. It makes them playable and not retards while holing the idea of orcs being big bad and in your face.

Empedocles
2012-06-05, 10:37 PM
I have to add my voice to the love this orc bandwagon. It makes them playable and not retards while holing the idea of orcs being big bad and in your face.

Appreciated, as always.

As a side note, the half-narzul is coming along rather gradually. PM me some suggestions for favored class :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-06-06, 02:36 PM
BUMPING :smallyuk:

EdroGrimshell
2012-06-06, 02:58 PM
I like it, your half-orc is still my favorite, but i like this one too. Hm, I think we should work together on races sometime, we're both pretty good with them, though i will say you are better with mechanics than i am.

Empedocles
2012-06-06, 05:48 PM
I like it, your half-orc is still my favorite, but i like this one too. Hm, I think we should work together on races sometime, we're both pretty good with them, though i will say you are better with mechanics than i am.

Yeah but you (being honest here, promise) definitely have much more inspired concepts. I could never hope to think of something like the zshar you did. PM me about a collaboration on races? :smallredface:

Also, glad you like it, and I'm not surprised you prefer the half-orc. I really only built on the old orc concept, as opposed to rebuilding from the ground up like I did with the orc.

LordErebus12
2012-06-06, 09:42 PM
I enjoy this. it makes them stronger. i will use this now as my standard orcs.

my complaint is a lack of a rage or toughness feature, such as Ferocity or even a racial bonus feat of toughness or diehard.

Ferocity (Ex) A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered and loses 1 hit point each round. A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.

i feel this still should be included, what say you, Vilpich?

Empedocles
2012-06-06, 09:44 PM
I enjoy this. it makes them stronger. i will use this now as my standard orcs.

my complaint is a lack of a rage or toughness feature, such as Ferocity or even a racial bonus feat of toughness or diehard.

Ferocity (Ex) A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered and loses 1 hit point each round. A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.

i feel this still should be included, what say you, Vilpich?

Alright, looks good. This might unbalance it though. At the very least, I'll remove some skill bonuses...

LordErebus12
2012-06-06, 09:52 PM
Alright, looks good. This might unbalance it though. At the very least, I'll remove some skill bonuses...

id lose the +2 bonus on strength based. seems strange, idk

you covered survivability and intimidation. perfect for orcs.

Empedocles
2012-06-06, 10:11 PM
id lose the +2 bonus on strength based. seems strange, idk

you covered survivability and intimidation. perfect for orcs.

Part of me just wants to make this a racial feat though. Not every orc has the sort of berserker dedication this ability entails.

LordErebus12
2012-06-06, 10:41 PM
Part of me just wants to make this a racial feat though. Not every orc has the sort of berserker dedication this ability entails.

its not really a rage or beserker thing, despite the name, it means simply that they can remain standing well past the point normal. i suggest changing the name and fluff of the ability.

racially, orcs remain alive to the very point of death, fighting with every ounce of power they have. This makes them differ to those "Weaker" races, who crumble to the stresses of injury. this racial hardiness was bred in the arena, the strongest of each generation surviving horrible injuries only to pass their experiences to their offspring.

its the one functioning ability of standard orcs that give them a flavour of toughness, i feel strange ditching the ability like that. its like saying orcs no longer are difficult to put down. like any human or halfling.

Empedocles
2012-06-08, 08:11 AM
Ferocity added, bonus to strength based skills removed since he has +4 strength anyways (which amounts to a +2 on all strength based skills anyways).

LordErebus12
2012-06-08, 02:50 PM
We Are Predators: An orc gains the ranger's favored enemy ability for one race of his choice.
Automatic Languages: Orc. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Barbarian.



my final concern (to my new favored race :smallsmile: )

does the We Are Predators ability stack with the standard ability? This allows the maximum of a +12 bonus vs. one foe at 20th level (if so chosen to specialize in one such foe), rather than +10, as is usual.

I understand the +10 isnt the actual cap, just the end of the class, so to speak.


below is just the description of the standard ability, for your viewing convenience.


Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger selects a creature type from the ranger favored enemies table. He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. A ranger may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures.

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2.

If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table below. (Note that there are other types of humanoid to choose from—those called out specifically on the table below are merely the most common.) If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.


P.S. I was thinking about it and the lethal natural attacks should be moved with smash; like so:

Smash: An orc's unarmed attacks are always treated as being lethal. Any item an orc attempts to sunder, including weapons, is treated as having a hardness 5 points lower then its actual hardness (cannot be lower then 0).

LordErebus12
2012-06-08, 03:17 PM
now if only we could share some love with the kobolds...

Empedocles
2012-06-15, 07:42 PM
now if only we could share some love with the kobolds...

Should I? I'm not entirely sure where to start though...

As a side note, I am still alive, but internet was unexpectedly lost for 6 days :smallfrown:

Virdish
2012-06-15, 07:54 PM
Welcome back. I would love to see your re imagination of a kobold.

Empedocles
2012-06-15, 10:41 PM
Made the suggested change with lethal unarmed attacks, and added a -6 penalty on attacks to deal nonlethal damage (instead of -4. Hope i got that right).

willpell
2012-06-21, 01:55 AM
now if only we could share some love with the kobolds...

Kobolds have an entire section in Races of the Dragon dedicated to them; whether or not it's powerful, it at least means they've gotten more love than the three Goblinoid races, all of which I would be interested in seeing Vilpich work on.

Neek
2012-06-21, 08:32 AM
I struggled with this too, but it made the most sense. Wisdom penalty, and you lose the predatory cunning. Intelligence penalty and we're back to square one (ME SMASH). Constitution penalty, and, well...........:smallannoyed:

Then perhaps balancing the class shouldn't have to do with base statistics? You've presented a tough, cunning creature--which goes hand-in-hand. The best predators in the mammal world, at least, are both cunningly intelligent and physically tough (comparatively, humans are a lot of the above: We have a lower body endurance unmatched in the wild and the best vision of mammals; we also possess cognitive capacities to think like another creature. These three coupled together, we can hunt more effectively than any other creature by wearing it out physically and mentally. It's how we used to hunt, at least, separating a kill from the herd and tracking by simply predicting its behavior for 8 or 10 hours or so until it literally dies from stress.)

Having said that, there should be some in-game balancing act. The strength/dex/cha modifiers make sense. They're tough, not friendly (even to each other), and their hand-eye coordination could use some work. A creature built on using its hand for force, not finesse.

So where's the drawing line? How do we make an orc not so much an attractive choice to players? Level adjustments are a no-go. Shadow Lord noted that Wizards work well with this class (well, not entirely, they don't get any synergy with anything Wizards do. But very few races do)--why not start there? Balance their stats across something else--perhaps have them work poorly with magic? I don't know. But I feel some sort of racial penalty in some form or factor that doesn't involve reducing Int/Wis would be preferable.

Empedocles
2012-06-21, 12:28 PM
Then perhaps balancing the class shouldn't have to do with base statistics? You've presented a tough, cunning creature--which goes hand-in-hand. The best predators in the mammal world, at least, are both cunningly intelligent and physically tough (comparatively, humans are a lot of the above: We have a lower body endurance unmatched in the wild and the best vision of mammals; we also possess cognitive capacities to think like another creature. These three coupled together, we can hunt more effectively than any other creature by wearing it out physically and mentally. It's how we used to hunt, at least, separating a kill from the herd and tracking by simply predicting its behavior for 8 or 10 hours or so until it literally dies from stress.)

Having said that, there should be some in-game balancing act. The strength/dex/cha modifiers make sense. They're tough, not friendly (even to each other), and their hand-eye coordination could use some work. A creature built on using its hand for force, not finesse.

So where's the drawing line? How do we make an orc not so much an attractive choice to players? Level adjustments are a no-go. Shadow Lord noted that Wizards work well with this class (well, not entirely, they don't get any synergy with anything Wizards do. But very few races do)--why not start there? Balance their stats across something else--perhaps have them work poorly with magic? I don't know. But I feel some sort of racial penalty in some form or factor that doesn't involve reducing Int/Wis would be preferable.

Great point here, and I totally agree :smallamused: However, I'd rather not do something where they work poorly with magic. That's too broad, and kind of unrealistic (that sounds silly in the context of D&D, but I'll elaborate): in the world of D&D, any race that couldn't handle magic would pretty much be extinct when forced to compete with races that could use magic.

So any ideas? I'l be brainstorming myself...

LordErebus12
2012-06-21, 04:07 PM
Shadow Lord noted that Wizards work well with this class (well, not entirely, they don't get any synergy with anything Wizards do. But very few races do)--

When you said class at the top, im guessing you meant race. Orcs make good blaster wizards, id imagine, channeling their fury into blasts of arcane destruction.

why not start there? Balance their stats across something else--perhaps have them work poorly with magic?

besides going down the obvious route of making them naturally superstitious, what racial penalty of any kind would you consider adding to it? I would leave it at its current balancing.


I don't know. But I feel some sort of racial penalty in some form or factor that doesn't involve reducing Int/Wis would be preferable.



I feel the -6 to dealing nonlethal is less important, since if i ever built a character that did such, it was a monk or took the appropriate feats to ignore such penalties. I feel like its almost a redundant penalty.

I'd give it a racial unrest and temper; orcs have little patience with sitting idle, learning and studying for long hours, remain quiet and still. they should receive an additional -2 penalty to charisma based skill checks when dealing with others for each hour of repetitive, tedious or boring activities they are performing.

imagine the implications. they are easily short tempered, and become impatient with long waits. imagine the amount of the chairs and desks being thrown/smashed in orc schools. Education in orc communities is short and abrupt, Education can be a troublesome and debates can equal trips to the infirmary.

quiet monastic or cloistered life would be difficult, and the attention to detail and patience required for arcane studying (at least the wizardly pursuits) might be difficult to attain.

LordErebus12
2012-06-21, 04:16 PM
Call it Hot-Blooded. As the pressure upon the orc rises so does the orcs temper!!!! perhaps when it all becomes too much, he can smash something to lower the penalty back to null. for a time.

maybe this is from the time kept in shackles, in wait between fights in the pits. the downtime in cells must have been maddening, with nothing but the sounds of death to keep your mind still. the need to move, escape, kill; bred a racial need to adapt, evade, kill and survive. idk.

Neek
2012-06-22, 09:06 AM
Great point here, and I totally agree :smallamused: However, I'd rather not do something where they work poorly with magic. That's too broad, and kind of unrealistic (that sounds silly in the context of D&D, but I'll elaborate): in the world of D&D, any race that couldn't handle magic would pretty much be extinct when forced to compete with races that could use magic.

To be fair, D&D is synchronic--it dismisses all logical historical bases for socioeconomics and industry once the game starts. It's as though you can completely ignore reality and get it to work. "Working poorly with magic" isn't to say they have a weakness, but perhaps a knock against practicing it as well? Or as LordErebus12 put out, Hot-Blooded. A penalty against dedication against sitting around and doing nothing (or at least, in their own eyes.)

Of course, such a concept means that becoming a monk or wizard is off limits; priest-varieties still are in good supply (which would make sense; an atheistic race would be more at a disadvantage than a race possessing an occupational disability against magic.)

@LordErebus12

Excuse the typo. Orcs would make excellent blaster-casters. That's for sure, but at the same time, they have a disadvantage with a -2 Cha penalty. As a Warlock, though, for sure. Superstition is just fluff--when designing fluff, if you make it too limiting and not flavorful enough, players will ignore it if not right out rebel against it. This hardly seems fair. Of course, I'd make Hot-Blooded more of a hindrance.

A -2 penalty to Cha based checks isn't as much of a hindrance, especially if you play the sort of character that if you're doing the talking, the party is ****ed competely and utterly. I'd steep it up a bit, make it a completely show-stopper with a -1 penalty to all combat-related checks as well--it doesn't just mess up their social activity, but pretty much stirs them up to the point that they aren't at 100%.

The majority of core races are all built mechanically, with fluff justifying the mechanics (not mechanics justifying the fluff). Players are free to strip the fluff out of a race, as I stated prior--as a result, the mechanics are justified through fluff, making it all the harder and keeping it in the same line of reasoning as the design mechanics of the core design principles.