When you can consider 160,432,128 light there is nothing you can't carry.

[dantiesilva]

Well as the name states my carrying cappicty at the moment is 160,432,128 and I was wondering saying it is so high even though I am only a large creature could i carry say a colossal weapon with no penalty, or any bigger weapon for that matter? After all it would be kind of silly to see someone with muscles the size of boulders walking around with what appears to be a toothpick in his hands.

[S_Grey]

Since he's still just a large size creature, he'd still take the penalties for using an improperly sized weapon. It isn't just the weight of the weapon that is the problem, it's also how cumbersome it is.

[Jeraa]

The effort needed to wield a weapon has absolutely nothing to do with your strength score or carrying capacity. Its solely based on your size category. A Large creature can not wield a Colossal weapon.

(Unless you can find a way to be treated as Huge size. A Huge creature can wield a Colossal light weapon. A Colossal light weapon is a one-handed weapon for a Gargantuan creature, or a 2 handed weapon for a Huge creature.)

[RaggedAngel]

Out of curiosity, how did you manage that number? I know it's more than doable, but many of the ways to increase carrying capacity interact with methods to use a larger weapon.

Either way, you have to recognize that the game isn't balanced to give you something for nothing; at the very least, you may have to spend an Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

[dantiesilva]

Started with an 18 str score
Added 20 from war troll
Half black dragon +8
Feral +4
Loth touched +6
Level 36+9
So that so far is
65str score
Mighty rage+8
Drink like a demon +6( 3 levels)
CC book the mythic something +2 and another +4 for 10 rounds
Primeval +9
Frenzy +10

Thats a total of 104 so far
Bear warrior +8
Primeval ability 3 +14
4 levels of Warhulk +8

Thats 134 str and i dont even think i have done all the math yet from everything. So yea. Thats how I did it so theatrically my light load is larger

[dantiesilva]

So what is the largest two handed weapon I can wield then and what is its damage dice?

[Kazyan]

So what is the largest two handed weapon I can wield then and what is its damage dice?

The Suglinn(?) from Frostburn and the Fullblade from A&EG deal 2d8 damage for a medium creature. In practice, you would have to ask your DM to allow the A&EG, but you clearly don't have a DM, because no one plays at ECL 40+ with creatures immune to damage. Anyway, both are exotic weapons, and attacking with the Suglinn is a full-round action. If you don't want to burn a feat (even though you have 13), the greatsword is still your best bet.

[dantiesilva]

One I'm large, Two I am the DM and three of course thats the best part that hes immune to damage. Saying my players have killed everything else throw something they can't kill at them make them think on there feet.

[legomaster00156]

That's a very large DM vs. players mindset you have going there. You seem to misunderstand the role of the DM.

[Kazyan]

A large fullblade is 3d8, then. It's basically a Buster Sword.

[satorian]

It always worries me when DMs refer to their NPCs as "I".

[dantiesilva]

They are on rode to divinty. To become gods they must complete a quest. They stopped the end of the world ( Wizard/ factorum/ malkonvoker/) level 40 gestalt
They redeamed someone that the rest of the world thought was beyound redemption( Rogue 19/Shadowbane inquister10/Blackguard10/Dreadnecromancer/ Dread witch)

Now they must for the final test stop a creature who is indestructible. Without Destroying anything in the world.

If they succed on the final test they become gods. It actually really easy, Imprisonment. Force cage, and Demiplane. They make a Demiplane, Put a force cage around it, and then for safty measures they Imprison him in there, throw a maze in to if you want. Its the fact all they do is blow it up and hope it dies, if it doesn't try to make it join you. This makes it a no win sceranio which judges there character. If they attack him something is destroyed. If they say something he doesn't like he goes into a rage. So you go over both.

[ericgrau]

He can carry such a thing he just can't wield it as a weapon with 100% effectiveness.

[Randomguy]

Most builds with this high strength take levels of hulking hurler and then just throw the moon in lieu of wielding a weapon for a huge pile of damage, using the complete warrior rules for improvised weapons.

[ThiagoMartell]

That's a very large DM vs. players mindset you have going there. You seem to misunderstand the role of the DM.

It always worries me when DMs refer to their NPCs as "I".

These men speak words of widsom.

[animewatcha]

If it helps any..

Going by srd multiplication thinger for carrying capacity.

24 str 233 light
34 932
44 3728
54 14912
64 59648
74 238592
84 954368
94 3817472
104 12569888
114 61079552
124 244318208
134 977272832

[Jeraa]

Animewatcha, you forgot one little thing - the creature being talked about is large size. That doubles all your numbers.

[Flickerdart]

Imagine a cinder block that weighs, say, 30 pounds. If you had a backpack, you could carry such a block easily. But if you had to use it as a weapon, you would find that it's far too heavy for the job.

[dantiesilva]

I have the war hulk if that helps...Keeps on adding to strength can throw things and hits three targets with one swing YAY Warhulk

[Hiro Protagonest]

He can carry such a thing he just can't wield it as a weapon with 100% effectiveness.

He can't wield it with any effectiveness. And I'd prefer if our friend here didn't spring some houserule on the party that he made in the middle of the campaign just so he could have an NPC deal a few points more damage.

I'd also like to know how he's immune to damage. And what else he's immune to. And how the party is supposed to beat him.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

I'd also like to know how he's immune to damage. And what else he's immune to. And how the party is supposed to beat him.

Could he be referring to how regeneration converts damage to non lethal damage and put on some immunities so all it can not die from energy damage.

str 134 large is 1,954,545,664 lbs or about 814 kilo tons (used long ton), you can carry 8.6 fully loaded enterprise class aircraft carriers as a light load.

[Gandariel]

I have the war hulk if that helps...Keeps on adding to strength can throw things and hits three targets with one swing YAY Warhulk

They're talking about the Hulking Hurler, whose abilities explicitly allow you to throw any item to enemies and deal damage depending on its weight.
With a score like that, you can easily throw enormous rocks for enormous damage.
Somebody had calculated the score required to throw the Moon (you might be there actually)

[Spuddles]

Give him the titan bloodline so he can wield colossal weapons. Or just arbitrarily give him a bigger weapon. What's a few more d6?

[Killer Angel]

It always worries me when DMs refer to their NPCs as "I".

Yep. I doubt this can be cited as an example of "good DMPC"... :smallamused:

[Occasional Sage]

Yep. I doubt this can be cited as an example of "good DMPC"... :smallamused:

You can't cite what doesn't exist.

[dantiesilva]

@Jade Dragon

1. I am not house ruling anything that is why I was here asking if it was possible to do.

2. Wartroll gives Regeneration 9
Then he also has fast healing 5 ( I believe from Feral template)
Because of crusader damage pool of 5
Weakness to acid which is counteracted and made immune from half black dragon
DR10/magic DR5/---

So there alone that is 24 damage stopped.
When he enters a rage he gains hp due to new con modifier which is somewhere around +20 And rages and frenzys last for 23 rounds a piece.

So now that is 44 damage. Now evey time they so much as attack him he gets a free AoO and hits three foes, if he kills any he does it again. Now a nonmagical large full blade deals 3d8 damage, wielded in two hands it adds around 134 damage. Thats without magic.

Breath 5d6 60ft. line acid
Claws 2d6+134 damage+ rend if grapple is successful
Bite 1d8 ( not very special)


That means if they do normal routine they die because they always cast antimagic field around BEGG, how they stopped the end of the world.

And for all those who have comments please tell me how you would make them take the test to gain passage to divinity at level 40? O wait thats right 99% of DMs don't go past levels 20 so please if you are only going to complain don't post, I'm asking for help not your opinion on how my games should run, I know my players and if they can just walk right over it they don't like it. They want to be challenged, and what better way.

[Gurgeh]

Ideally not a way that can be negated by a seventh-level wizard casting Solid Fog.

[killianh]

Standard rules state that your effectiveness with a weapon is dependent on your size and proficiency. Has nothing to do with strength. Personally though I've always believed that when you get into those kinds of number (Which has happened in quite a few epic level campaigns I've run) that its usually safe to rule that for every 50 you can go up a size. That said though you said you weren't going to house rule anything so you're stuck giving him a gold or platinum weapon to increase size damage and pulling out other oversized weapon tricks to keep with RAW

[Kazyan]

You should apply some form of immunity to nonlethal damage. Otherwise, your protogod players will steamroll the ubertroll into the negatives with nonlethal, then throw it down a well or something. I doubt any of your players will be concerned about losing 24 damage on their attacks at this level.

There are many ways to kill or disable a creature whose only immunity is to damage. For example, what do you have to stop a Maximized Shivering Touch, or Flesh to Stone spam? I suggest taking a look at the Emerald Legion and borrowing some of the tricks there.

[Tyndmyr]

Started with an 18 str score
Added 20 from war troll
Half black dragon +8
Feral +4
Loth touched +6
Level 36+9
So that so far is
65str score
Mighty rage+8
Drink like a demon +6( 3 levels)
CC book the mythic something +2 and another +4 for 10 rounds
Primeval +9
Frenzy +10

Thats a total of 104 so far
Bear warrior +8
Primeval ability 3 +14
4 levels of Warhulk +8

Thats 134 str and i dont even think i have done all the math yet from everything. So yea. Thats how I did it so theatrically my light load is larger

Carrying capacity has nothing to do with weapons usable. That said, what weapon you use is basically irrelevant when you have that much bonus damage from strength.

Also, if you care about maxing carrying capacity, belt of the wide earth inexpensively doubles it.

We could, perhaps, give better advice about this encounter if you gave more complete info about what you hope for it to achieve.

[Bahamut Omega]

Although I'm loathe to recommend this, at this level of play, it shouldn't be hard to take some custom feat that lets him use a colossal weapon. Really everything at epic level comes down to the DM making most of it up as he goes along anyways.

[Gandariel]

2. Wartroll gives Regeneration 9
Then he also has fast healing 5 ( I believe from Feral template)
Because of crusader damage pool of 5
Weakness to acid which is counteracted and made immune from half black dragon
DR10/magic DR5/---

So there alone that is 24 damage stopped.
When he enters a rage he gains hp due to new con modifier which is somewhere around +20 And rages and frenzys last for 23 rounds a piece.

So now that is 44 damage.

DR/magic is useless after level.. five?
Crusader isn't "stopping"
rage gives you 2xLevel Hp, so 80 maybe, but it works only once.
You're not stopping that much damage, and even then by level 40 44 damage should be ridiculously low.

Anyway, take Hulking Hurler levels and throw thousands of d6s of damage!

[Suddo]

So how is this guy immune to damage? Seriously he's not immune to non-lethal from what I can tell so he'll just pass out after he's hit to hard and continually regnerate. I could post a build that is immune to damage at level 20 (I think it was 16) if you want.

[Downysole]

With 134 strength, just take the minus for using an improvised weapon...not gonna be too horrible with all that plus to hit from the str.

[dantiesilva]

@killianh

Thank you for the gold/ platinum idea, I was not aware of it. I would use platinum but it goes against to much of his fluff. After all he is a follower of tiamat and as such would not wield a weapon made of platinum, though can different metals be combined in one weapon?

Example Mithral cold iron longsword

@Kazyan

The character in question has a shaman to do that kind of stuff in that scenario. Saying though that there is no wizard per say in the group flesh to stone will not be a problem. Paladin/marshal build and a Ki master/monk build neither of which have great magical abilities, the ki master does the most damage do to spells, but without the paladin the DCs would almost never hit. He also has the Occult slayer prestige class and the feats to go with it. As for other types of damage immunity I am always open to, saying he is suppose to be a test after all, an extremely hard one, but a test none the less. After all if anyone could do it everyone would be a god.

@Tyndmyr

I hope for this to get them out of the idea that if we blast it enough it will die. His whole purpose is test the PCs abilities to stop total destruction without violence. You know the quote " Violence only breeds more violence" Well in this case violence only brings on crazy wild trolls to killing frenzy. As for the carrying capacity its not on my priorities, but it cool when you can carry a castle on your back. Or be Atlas and have the world on your back XD.

@Bahamut Omega

I personally do not like house ruling feats and such because well if I did first thing I would do is use str for AC. After all when your that powerful it does become a defense.

@Gandariel

After looking at hulking hurler it really doesn't give me anything I don't already have unless I take it the full 3 levels and take meteor throw. The war hulk grants me mighty rock throwing which allows me to throw big rocks. Sure not big weapons but the moon is a rock.

@Suddo

Go to the beginning of the post someone said it would be immune to damage, I merely repeated what they said. If I was mistaken no big deal.

@Downysole

So I can grab a dragon by the tail and use it as a club. Sweet. Duel great wyrm red dragon wielding barbarian thing.


@ everyone

The build so far
20 Barbarian/1 bear warrior/3 drunken master/ 10 frenzied berserker/2 occult slayer/4 fighter//3 crusader//10 ME//10Primeeval//5 frostrager//4 warhulk

[Jeraa]

@killianh

Thank you for the gold/ platinum idea, I was not aware of it. I would use platinum but it goes against to much of his fluff. After all he is a follower of tiamat and as such would not wield a weapon made of platinum, though can different metals be combined in one weapon?

Example Mithral cold iron longsword

Yes and no. You can make an item out of multiple materials, but you only get the benefits of the most prevalent material. In your example weapon, it would be treated either as a mithral longsword, or a cold iron longsword, but never both.


If you make a suit of armor or weapon out of more than one special material, you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material. However, you can build a double weapon with each head made of a different special material.

[dantiesilva]

Thank you jeraa though not what I wanted to hear helps alot.

[Fyermind]

improvised weapons take a -4 to attack rolls. boo hoo, you have a +62 strength modifier.

Complete warrior talks about how heavy an improvised weapon you can wield. Use something dense, hard, and sharp for maximum damage. Natural heavyweight will double carrying capacity for a single feat, which is probably worth it. You should be able to deal more d6 in damage than you will care to roll.

Still, this monster has a few glaring weaknesses. Consider granting a boss the ability to cast in AMF, a feat from forgotten realms I believe. That will let it pull all the nasty tricks spell casters can. as a level 21 caster with access to epic magic you still have 19 levels to gain immunity to everything with. That should be doable.

[Suddo]

I'm pretty sure you can kill your dude the same way you kill Tarrasque (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm). You beat it until it "dead" and then cast Wish.

[dantiesilva]

But magic doesn't work " AT ALL" in an AMF so as I take it you cast a fireball, it hits AMF it goes poof and early detonates outside, no magic can pierce it, thus making it an unfair advantage against anyone relying on magic. Thus you summon a monster, it steps into zone one of two things happens, it gets dismissed, or it gets set free to do what it wants now, thus kill you for bothering it. If a demon has the choice of kill the squishy that can't use magic or kill the thing that is can carry a castle in one hand and a dragons hoard in another I think for some reason come sense says kill the fleshy. May be wrong though on AMF

[Jeraa]

AMF doesn't work against all magic. Instantaneous conjurations (like the various Orb spells) aren't affected if cast from outside the field. Likewise, it won't stop telekinesis from throwing items into the field.

Also, epic spells are not automatically supressed. (A dispel check must be made, 1d20+20. DC is 11+ the epic spells caster level. Success suppresses the spell, failure means the spell operates normally.)

[dantiesilva]

@Suddo So tell me how you are going to beat it to death? You swing weapon, it gets AoO. Deals with a large full blade 3d8+134damage to three people on your turn. Then it goes, makes a full attack for four or five of those hits in one turn. Tell me how you survive?

Just from the strength bonus you get 670 damage. Miss chance, no such thing with ghost touch or brilliant energy. 40d12= max of 480hp. I don't care how good your con is, unless it starts of at 20 from level one or higher you ain't surviving three rounds against him, hit for hit.

[Boci]

Miss chance, no such thing with ghost touch or brilliant energy.

Nope. Miss chance allows you to hit incorporeal targets without a chance of failure and BE ignores armour. Neither ignore miss chance.

[Occasional Sage]

Nope. Ghost touch allows you to hit incorporeal targets without a chance of failure and BE ignores armour. Neither ignore miss chance.

Corrected that for you.

[dantiesilva]

Most miss chances are do to concealment, or incorporeal. Ghost touch eliminate incorporeal, BE eliminates concealment because not only does it shine it pass right through objects or at least that's how I understood it. And for what that doesn't take care of I have Mage slayer, Blind fight, Pierce magical concealment, and Pierce magical protection. Add in the Occult slayer dealing double damage to all spellcasters and adding a d6 to damage against them.

There may be other ways but saying I had around 13 feats floating around thought they would be put to good use. Any spell cast on him gets turned back on opponent, its harder to attach spells to him, gets bonuses to will saves against spells. Basically to hit him with a spell it takes a lot of investment.

[Gurgeh]

I'll repeat for the benefit of the audience: Solid Fog.

A Brilliant Energy weapon doesn't affect concealment at all; if you can't see the thing you're trying to attack, then there's no guarantee that you'll be able to hit it. It doesn't matter that your blade goes straight through stone, because you're still just flailing blindly.

[Azoth]

Strongarm bracers in the MIC cheaply give you powerful build, so he could weild a huge weapon.

You could search to try and find a version of enlarge person that affects giants to become huge then you could weild gargantuan weapons with strong arm braces. Aside that you could make him a were-whatever that is huge sized so in hybrid form again he is huge and can weild gargantuant weapons.

Though personally on bruiser monsters with massive strength I like falchions. Something in the visual reminds me of Zodd the Immortal...which actually...I can't remember the book but there is an immortal template. Gives a metric ton of immunities and resistances. Also, maybe use creature of legend in place of some of the templates.

A titanic werebear wartroll immortal monster of legend is about cr25, comes with a metric F-ton of immunities, is gargantuan size, and has a racial str mod of over +78...yeeehaw is that a fun smackdown monster. Might bust it out myself one day. Plus it is warhulk ready off the bat, so cr35 racial str mod of +98, plus HD increases, gear, ect. He will squash anything really.

For fun send him into frenzy berserker, give him a spike chain, knockdown, and the mage slayer line...watch people squirm as they realize they can't get within 40ft of him or they are in pain.

[TuggyNE]

Most miss chances are do to concealment, or incorporeal. Ghost touch eliminate incorporeal, BE eliminates concealment because not only does it shine it pass right through objects or at least that's how I understood it. And for what that doesn't take care of I have Mage slayer, Blind fight, Pierce magical concealment, and Pierce magical protection. Add in the Occult slayer dealing double damage to all spellcasters and adding a d6 to damage against them.

Fair enough, but the character's ability to bypass concealment is not due to brilliant energy at all, but PMC/PMP. Just wanted to finish clarifying that.

(Interesting thought experiment: character vs. lich, or spell-casting construct. Let that roll around for a bit.)

[Gurgeh]

Haha, you should totally pit this guy against a Green Star Adept who's researching the necessary components to persist a Time Stop spell.

[dantiesilva]

@Gurgeh

You seem to be stuck up on only one of the things I posted yes solid fog stops one of them. Does it stop blind fight? PMC? PMA? No it does not.

@Azoth

Yea lately I'm lacking on magic item stuff, I pay so much attention to everything else that I glance over some very important ones. It seems like I'm going to have to sit down one of these days and read every magic item again. Adding more templates would not really help any, well besides the boost in str and size...yea that just made me sound really stupid. Let me clarify. I Can already transform into a black bear or a dire lion(in my mind the only things needed to transform into).

As for monster of legend very tempting, switch it out for loth touched, and take immunity(electricity, polymorph) size and regrow limbs.

(granting it immunity to acid electricty, poison, polymorph, sleep, enchantments, mind effecting spells. Looking good to me)

@tuggyne

If your saying my PCs they have done the lich. If your talking about the wartroll, that would be very fun to see a lich lobbing spells at it only for them to lob off. Summon a grappler, he does it better. XD

@Gurgeh

Not sure I quite follow your last comment

[dantiesilva]

@Gurgeh

You seem to be stuck up on only one of the things I posted yes solid fog stops one of them. Does it stop blind fight? PMC? PMA? No it does not.

@Azoth

Yea lately I'm lacking on magic item stuff, I pay so much attention to everything else that I glance over some very important ones. It seems like I'm going to have to sit down one of these days and read every magic item again. Adding more templates would not really help any, well besides the boost in str and size...yea that just made me sound really stupid. Let me clarify. I Can already transform into a black bear or a dire lion(in my mind the only things needed to transform into).

As for monster of legend very tempting, switch it out for loth touched, and take immunity(electricity, polymorph) size and regrow limbs.

(granting it immunity to acid electricty, poison, polymorph, sleep, enchantments, mind effecting spells. Looking good to me)

@tuggyne

If your saying my PCs they have done the lich. If your talking about the wartroll, that would be very fun to see a lich lobbing spells at it only for them to lob off. Summon a grappler, he does it better. XD

@Gurgeh

Not sure I quite follow your last comment

[Tyndmyr]

Still, this monster has a few glaring weaknesses. Consider granting a boss the ability to cast in AMF, a feat from forgotten realms I believe. That will let it pull all the nasty tricks spell casters can. as a level 21 caster with access to epic magic you still have 19 levels to gain immunity to everything with. That should be doable.

It's Initiate of Mystra. Requires Cleric 3.

Additionally, *all* D&D problems can be solved by beating them into the ground. You just need sufficiently better methods of beatdown(ie, more damage, avoiding counterattacks, and ways of ignoring immunities). Be aware that escalation alone probably won't result in people changing playstyle.

Personally, I'd just orb it to death. My current level eight wizard could crush this thing. Jaunt out of the attacks(also contingency), and searing spell orbs = death. AMF does not change this equation at all.

Additionally, escalating to ridiculous damage levels means that, as they get hit...they probably just die. That doesn't change playstyle of a char...it ends the char.

So, long story short. They'll try to kill it. They'll either get turned into bloodly splotches in about a round, or they'll gut it, take it's gear as loot, and dance on the giant body, then make it into a sexy hat. Neither of these will accomplish the outcome you desire.

[Flickerdart]

Solid Fog stops PMC quite handily, because you can't reach anything to pierce its concealment.

[animewatcha]

I looked up random feats and noticed things like dragonfire channeling that deals sacred damage bypassing nearly any damage reduction / regen. Just a thought.

Also..

Boy do I WISH that he didn't gain divinity oh so long ago. ( Think there was drag mag article or one of the books talked about time-based magic and adventures ).

[Spuddles]

OP wants his players to engage this thing in combat, because if they do, PCs lose by plot even if they manage to kill the monster.

Solid Fog doesn't do anything useful.

[TuggyNE]

If your saying my PCs they have done the lich. If your talking about the wartroll, that would be very fun to see a lich lobbing spells at it only for them to lob off. Summon a grappler, he does it better. XD

Actually I was specifically amused at the thought of this war troll futilely swinging a brilliant energy weapon at a lich. (Also: trap the soul.)

[137beth]

If you can't use platinum, depleted uranium is almost as dense. I'm not sure if it would be available in a medieval world, though.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

If you can't use platinum, depleted uranium is almost as dense. I'm not sure if it would be available in a medieval world, though.

Since this is epic level, it wont be to had to find a world that does.

[dantiesilva]

sorry everyone took so long to reply baby duties.

@Tyndmyr

More damage then one combat round k.o.? Immunities is a small problem because yet again no wizard so they only have what there armor grants and there races.

Saying one took VoP he has no armor. And his race has very few immunities.

The half celestial paladin could be a problem though.

And how do you get around casting in an AMF? outside it yes, once inside it? He is under effects of haste for 10 rounds, is almost guaranteed initiative, and can move 60ft.round( not great but faults), plus he has a fly speed.

@Flickerdart

the fog is the concealment

@Spuddles

I want my PCs to not attack it. If they attack they are bound to die. If they say talk to it, they win. Diplomacy is a quite common ability that is under used.

@tuggyne

confused care to explain.

[Gurgeh]

It doesn't really matter if you can ignore the concealment from the fog if it's going to slow your movement to 5ft a round. Someone tosses that at a melee bruiser and said bruiser is basically helpless.

[Flickerdart]

Who uses Solid Fog for the concealment? The concealment doesn't matter. Without the concealment it would still be a triple-A+, five star, would learn again spell.

[dantiesilva]

One problem, AMF. Might not automatically deny it, but it would make the time it lasts less. Solid fog would work better being used by a character on themselves. Wizard cast spells safely knowing for someone to get to it it will take a very long time. Use gust of wind to take out a sight for you to aim your spells and have a ball.And I don't know about you, but if I knew I could only move 5ft. per round, I would dig a hole. That way when spell ends and wizard is out of things to blast you with its dead meat. And every single turn I would dig until one of two things happened.

1. I get under the wizard, in which case it can't cast magic.
2. Dig until I was out of the spells grasp.

[Augmental]

One problem, AMF. Might not automatically deny it, but it would make the time it lasts less. Solid fog would work better being used by a character on themselves. Wizard cast spells safely knowing for someone to get to it it will take a very long time. Use gust of wind to take out a sight for you to aim your spells and have a ball.And I don't know about you, but if I knew I could only move 5ft. per round, I would dig a hole. That way when spell ends and wizard is out of things to blast you with its dead meat. And every single turn I would dig until one of two things happened.

1. I get under the wizard, in which case it can't cast magic.
2. Dig until I was out of the spells grasp.

Godtroll used Dig!
Godtroll dug a hole!
Wizard used Earthquake!
It's super effective!

[Gurgeh]

Solid fog has a duration in minutes per caster level, so if you decide to sit tight then the caster is going to have effectively unlimited time to buff, blast, and summon. Nice action economy there.

[dantiesilva]

@Augmental

Wizard does not know troll use dig thus wasting a spell would be useless I would have to agree on the buffing.

You summon stuff what does it tell you? Nothing it can't see in solid fog and for all you know they are constantly moving thus never seeing each other. Blasty though better, ineffective if you do not see what you are hitting so in the end wizard waste all spells now defenseless. If wizard has wand of blasty, better chances. Spend all 40 minutes buffing, then fog ends and you blast. O wait in 40 minutes troll dig under your feet pull you underground and you now 50/50 shot of dropping wand. Hope you have mindsight and telepathy.

Now going by 40 minutes lets see

Wizards cast all buff spells. They all disappear because of AMF.
Wizard summons. All creatures become free to do what they want when they pass through AMF.
Wizard uses blasty...Well if he hits dead troll. If not wont take long for troll to dig close enough to have AMF make all spells useless including blasty because you can't cast any now because you are inside the AMF not outside it.

[Boci]

O wait in 40 minutes troll dig under your feet pull you underground and you now 50/50 shot of dropping wand. Hope you have mindsight and telepathy.

Thew wizard wouldn't be flying?

[dantiesilva]

Good point, wizard uses fly, it can't see where he is still, though more versatile yes. Troll fly better. He was born with wings. And shots acid 60ft. Same amounts as his AMF how about that.

[Kazyan]

I think the hypothetical spell selection and typical OP rules we're imagining aren't going to apply in this game. There doesn't even seem to be a bard, let alone Batman. dantiesilva, just make sure your ubertroll has out-of-left-field immunities and it should serve the purpose you're designing it for. Just to make sure, what exactly is the party composition, and which (if any) high-level spells/powers do they usually tote around?

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't bank on the nonexistent wizard having prepared Earthquake that morning, becuase the handbooks for Tier 1 are constantly telling you not to blast...

[Gurgeh]

I don't see how an AMF is particularly relevant; an Epic party at the ECL we're talking about would be able to throw Disjunctions around like they're going out of style, even if they don't have an arcanist in the party (because at ECL 40 even a straight-classed fighter would have enough skill points to UMD their way into using scrolls).

[Augmental]

Also, why are you just now trying to get the party to use tactics besides "hit it until it dies"? Did you ever offer the players a nonviolent solution to a problem which would have turned out better than the violent option, and they took the violent option instead? If killing things has always worked for your players in the past, then they might have decided "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[TuggyNE]

@tuggyne

confused care to explain.

Effect description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#brilliantEnergy): "A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects."

[crazyhedgewizrd]

Also, why are you just now trying to get the party to use tactics besides "hit it until it dies"? Did you ever offer the players a nonviolent solution to a problem which would have turned out better than the violent option, and they took the violent option instead? If killing things has always worked for your players in the past, then they might have decided "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

The last boss encounter described, was one were talking was the most used tactic.

[Randomguy]

Good point, wizard uses fly, it can't see where he is still, though more versatile yes. Troll fly better. He was born with wings. And shots acid 60ft. Same amounts as his AMF how about that.

You can't use supernatural abilities like breath weapons in an antimagic field.

Sure the troll can fly, with URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm"]average maneuverability[/URL]. You need to move half your speed forwards at least to stay up in the air. So unless you have a fly speed of 10ft, you start to fall when you're in a solid fog. A good wizard could persist Swift Fly, or quicken a regular fly, or use elemental body(air) for perfect maneuverability, or just not put himself in the area of the spell with his overland flight, and would be able to fly normally.


And I don't know about you, but if I knew I could only move 5ft. per round, I would dig a hole. That way when spell ends and wizard is out of things to blast you with its dead meat. And every single turn I would dig until one of two things happened.

1. I get under the wizard, in which case it can't cast magic.
2. Dig until I was out of the spells grasp.

Firstly: Antimagic field doesn't pass through objects. When you get under the wizard, it won't be affected. And the wizard could just cast celerity or greater celerity and then teleport out of the way when the ground starts caving in.

Secondly: How many ranks do you have in Profession (miner)? Using the rules in races of the Dragon, if you get a 60 on your check somehow, you'd be able to get 10 5ft cubes of dirt out of the way in 8 hours. That's about 1 cube and a little bit in one hour of digging. Have fun with that.

Lastly: It's called sound. Not being able to see doesn't = deaf, and digging makes a lot of noise. As soon as you start digging, you're basically giving yourself away. Even if a wizard doesn't have any ranks in listen and can't determine the direction, it can summon something that can, and tell it to avoid the AMF. Or use a moment of persience and cast another one.

Oh, and by the way:
Summoned creatures of any type and
incorporeal undead wink out if they enter
an antimagic field. They reappear in the
same spot once the field goes away. Time
spent winked out counts normally against
the duration of the conjuration that is
maintaining the creature. If you cast
antimagic field in an area occupied by a
summoned creature that has spell resist-
ance, you must make a caster level check
(1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s
spell resistance to make it wink out.

Summoned creatures don't become free when in an AMF. They might disappear. How's the CL of the effect you're using to create it?

[dantiesilva]

A level 20 ki master/40 monk/20 Fighter
Level 20 fighter/20 marshal/ paladin10/ranger 10/Rogue 20

The best spell they have is a spirit bomb.

@ Augmental

Its a test for divinity, if it was something they were used to it wouldn't be a test now would it.

@tuggyne

So it doesn't go straight through...Still hits more then likely, less dangerous though by a lot.

@crazyhedgewizrd

You are correct, he had whole nations under his influence, and well had so much diplomacy it was not even funny. Undead army and all.

@Randomguy

Half dragon.Fly speed of 40.

[Hiro Protagonest]

@tuggyne

So it doesn't go straight through...Still hits more then likely, less dangerous though by a lot.

I... don't understand. By all the fluff, it goes straight through nonliving material. It doesn't have any effect. Period.

[Augmental]

The last boss encounter described, was one were talking was the most used tactic.

Would you mind quoting where this boss battle is mentioned?

[dantiesilva]

early on i told everyone what they had faced prier and destroyed and redeemed. Now it is the option to face a foe who is unbeatable( supposedly) to finish ascending to divine rank 0. They are given the information that angering the creature is not the way to go, nor is open conflict. Its basically the blaster and the leader put into one person. Though my original question has nothing to do with any of this really and it is so off topic it ain't even funny.

So let me ask it again with the knowledge I now have.

What is the largest weapon I can wield two handed with slim to no penalty. Already taking exotic weapon proficency gold fullblade) to maximize damage output. Monkey grip is a feat I'm willing to take. Are there any other feats/spells that will help me hold larger weapons, without increasing my size permanently.

[LordDrakulzen]

If you want to be immune to damage, take the Gheden Template from Dragon #313.
Unaffected by non lethal damage.
if you have Trollblooded as a feat, or since you have actual Troll character, all but acid and fire becomes non-lethal. with half black dragon, that makes fire the only issue. there are feats/spells/tricks that are way beyond my knowledge to become immune to fire as well.

Then you are truely immune to harm.

[BlueEyes]

if you have Trollblooded as a feat, or since you have actual Troll character, all but acid and fire becomes non-lethal. with half black dragon, that makes fire the only issue. there are feats/spells/tricks that are way beyond my knowledge to become immune to fire as well.
He's not a troll, he's a war troll. Which means he's vulnerable to acid only.


Monkey grip is a feat I'm willing to take. Are there any other feats/spells that will help me hold larger weapons, without increasing my size permanently.
Wield Oversized Weapon (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Wield_Oversized_Weapon).

[dantiesilva]

Thank you blue eyes, and i do not have a single Dragon mag..

[Kazyan]

A level 20 ki master/40 monk/20 Fighter
Level 20 fighter/20 marshal/ paladin10/ranger 10/Rogue 20

Hey, look. Basically no spells. Ignore the "wizard happens to have the right spell, therefore you lose" posts.

Google the King of Smack and poke around for a while; you might find something helpful. While your ubertroll won't be able to hit with 32d6 claw damage, you'll probably find some feats, equipment, etc. that can apply to the troll.

[Boci]

Hey, look. Basically no spells. Ignore the "wizard happens to have the right spell, therefore you lose" posts.

Solid fog maybe, but fly speed should still be taken into account.

[Gurgeh]

They're ECL 80. They don't need to be wizards to be slinging every spell under the sun; they have enough wealth to buy a hojillion scrolls, or even level 20 wizard hirelings if they so desire.

[Kazyan]

They're ECL 80. They don't need to be wizards to be slinging every spell under the sun; they have enough wealth to buy a hojillion scrolls, or even level 20 wizard hirelings if they so desire.

They're ECL 80...and cannot cast 4th level spells and have taken to solving problems the same way ECL 1 martial characters do, from what dantiesilva has implied. Why on earth would characters who have not a single level of a Tier 1-3 class decide to come to this one battle with a squishy wizard buddy, or scrolls for higher level spells that they have to have the system mastery to pick out and the UMD ranks to make them work? The players will think of spells like Prismatic Sphere as a wizard's utility, and they've gotten over their nervousness about strolling through one about 30 levels ago.

[Tyndmyr]

@Tyndmyr

More damage then one combat round k.o.? Immunities is a small problem because yet again no wizard so they only have what there armor grants and there races.

Saying one took VoP he has no armor. And his race has very few immunities.

The half celestial paladin could be a problem though.

And how do you get around casting in an AMF? outside it yes, once inside it? He is under effects of haste for 10 rounds, is almost guaranteed initiative, and can move 60ft.round( not great but faults), plus he has a fly speed.

As mentioned in my last post, Initiate of Mystra simply ignores AMFs. Invoke Magic would also do the trick.

The problem is not this, however. It's that your players, if they love to fight things, will likely try to fight it. They will either be prepared to take it, in which case, it dies horribly...or they're unprepared, took no precautions for escape and can't reasonably run away, and get owned by it.

Also, you could seriously reduce headaches by just not playing at ECL 80.

LordDrakul, Searing Spell will still leave that a smoking ruin. Searing spell doesn't care about immunities.

[dantiesilva]

Again no one pays attention to me OP. Gestalt ECL 40

[Kazyan]

Again no one pays attention to me OP. Gestalt ECL 40

Oh, right then. :smallredface: But it's still unlikely that they will up and decide to buy a Wizard, and it probably would spend its time on Disintegrate instead of Forcecage, considering the, no seriously, 40 levels of Monk. That is not the expected "you forgot about the loophole in your sixth immunity, so you die in the surprise round" level for most theoretical casters and you probably don't even have to grab Freedom of Movement.

[Tyndmyr]

Again no one pays attention to me OP. Gestalt ECL 40

Whichever. Once you get deep into epic, the numbers are all ridiculous regardless. Gestalt ECL 40, ECL 80...its crazy either way.

Building a monstrosity that hurls worlds at them or whatever is fun and games if you're playing high op stuff, or will plaster someone at low op...but it doesn't actually incentivize diplomacy.

If you want them to talk, making talking attractive. The carrot works far better than the stick.

[Kazyan]

This is late and probably will not make much difference, but have you checked out the Ferocity (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) barbarian variant? Take that variant for the barbarian levels, then a level of druid with the Druidic Avenger variant to get Rage back. You can now stack Ferocity, Rage and Frenzy. More strength. The troll can now carry slightly larger planetoids.