{PF} Other players are 3 Barbarians and Witch... how do I balance that?

[Entelechy]

So, I am joining a first level pathfinder game that is going to be combat heavy. We are playing inhabitants of the barbarian north as they overflow their boundaries and go looting and pillaging civilized lands. It seems that most of my fellow players has taken the "barbarian" part literally. Right now there are 3 or four barbarians, a witch, and I am undecided.

We have been told that healing will be readily available between fights, and we will not need a healer. I am thinking of maybe grabbing an Oracle to add a bit of divine spellcasting anyway (druids are not allowed).

I am also thinking of maybe going a knife master rogue, since I figure with all the big barbarians charging into the middle of the fight, I will have plenty of opportunity to flank people, and also will not likely draw much attention.

Lastly, I am thinking of a switch-hitter ranger, since right now everyone (except the witch, obviously) is melee.

I do not have my heart set on any of these. I would like some suggestions as to what might compliment this group.

Banned classes include Alchemist, anti-paladin, cavalier, druid, paladin, monk, wizard, gunslinger, summoner, inquisitor, ninja, sammurai. These classes can, ultimately, still be taken, but you would need a really damn good excuse as to why they are part of a barbarian hoard.

[Axier]

Rogue. Talking, traps, ect. Really what you could use.

Or if you like another class that happens to be banned, just go with a standard captured and gone wild secenario. Say you are an alchemist, you save the barbarians from a disease with your alchemy after your capture by them while traveling around the world looking for a botanical cure. Or a wandering gunslinger who turns the tides of a barbarian war because one tribe was brutalizing women and children, and you proved yourself usefu.

[Feralventas]

If you're looking to synergize well with the party, you're going to want to look at "What do they do, and what are their play-styles" and then key yourself to fit in among that. To do so effectively, you'll probably going to want to ask what sort of specific builds/ideas they're working off of. For example, one barb might go for a high-mobility, unstoppable (but not invincible) hit-and-run style, while another goes for a Vital Strike/Cleave build to wade through the thick of his foes, and the last is almost a demi-'caster using supernatural Rage Power options.

The Oracle for Divine 'casting is a good idea, though your Mystery and Spell selections will determine how well or poorly you synergize with the other players. You could pick up Divine Power, Cat's Grace, and Gravity Bow while taking ranged-combat control feats (ranged slowing, stopping, and debuffing abilities) so that you can keep your allies from being overwhelmed, but if you do so and the party is constantly moving (witch via Overland Flight) then you'd be straining to keep up And provide effective cover. You could also go for a debuffing/target removal build; I have a player running a Cleric like this by debuffing a target's saves and then offensively casting Planeshift on them (Cleric of a Travel deity who sends people traveling).

Anyhow, what I'm saying is that while you can build a character to work well with others, the only way to do so Without specifically building a support/buff character would be to have a bit more detail as to how the party/partners will normally operate.

That said, some simple buffs go a long way, and with an Oracle being pretty much T2 last I checked, you should have plenty of options to do this; I'm probably over-exagerating the importance of knowing everything.

And a little in-combat healing will go a long way in situations where you need it. As do crafting feats if you have down-time.

Always bring rope.

[deuxhero]

Oracle is a good choice for your party. Melee heavy likes buffs. Cleric could also work if you wanted to do it.

Cavalier into Battle Herald or some such works nice.

[Entelechy]

If I went oracle, what mystery would you recommend? I tend to have terrible taste when it comes to picking domains, mysteries, etc.

[Karoht]

Bard? But then you're a buff bot and a party face. Still, they made Bards a bit more user friendly in PF VS 3.5, you might have a lot of fun with one. And they would totally have Bards to immortalize legends into song in a Barbarian Horde.
Also, they way they changed Bardic Knowlege, you basically are THE Knowledge monkey. It's actually pretty awesome.

And a Bard smashing enemies in the head with a Guitar while yelling "singing" at the top of his lungs...
"And the Trogdor comes in the...
NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!"
...sounds like it will go with a party of Barbarians just fine.

[Feralventas]

I've only played one Oracle so far, but the Mystery of Time is all kinds of fun so far, and I combined it by recently taking Sands of Time (and other time-fluff-able spells along with it; healing spells are accelerated time, buffs are temporal insights, haste when I can pick it up, and with the Seer archetype, I Know Everything (sometimes).

But really, it depends on what you want to do.
Mystery of Battle is a given if you want to pretend to be a fighter.
Nature if you want druidic fluff without the druid features.
Life for healing and rejuvinating, but that may be superfluous for you.
Spellscar looks something like a demi-warlock build.
Dark Tapestry if you want to be that creepy person in the back who knows more than they should and isn't worried enough about their own health.

[Giegue]

It honestly depends on how you want your oracle to play. If you are looking for a oracle who wades into the front line with all the barbarians to keep them healed and buffed while providing some melee of your own Battle and Metal are your best bets. If you want to stand back and be a powerful healer while providing buffs, Life is your go-to mystery. Want to be a necromancer, standing back and debuffing while your shambling minions charge in with the rest of the team? Juju or Bones are probably what you want. An Oracle's mystery choice depends highly on what kind of character you want to play. Like a wizard or cleric, an Oracle can fill many rolls. Unlike a wizard or cleric, an oracle individually can really only fill one of those rolls, and the roll that you want your Oracle to fill will determine their mystery, since each mystery is tailored to a specific roll.

[Larpus]

Well, while traps might be relevant, you'll only need trapfinding (the Rogue and couple others' ability) if there will be many magic traps in the campaign, that'll depend on DM style, but more often than not, you don't need it, just have a decent DEX character have maxed Disable Device and you're covered for regular traps, while magical ones are visible with Detect Magic.

Still, yeah, the party will most probably need a face, which either the Oracle or the Cleric can provide, though the Oracle does seem to fit the suit a bit better here due to extra skill points and being based on Cha.

You can also go Rage Prophet if you choose to, never looked at exactly how good the PrC is, but it always seemed pretty interesting and in this case, fitting.

Other than that, another class that would definitely be of big help in such a group would be a Bard, with so many melees your bard music buff will be quite a boon and you'll have the skillpoints to be a very effective face and max Use Magic Device (to cover the divine deficiency of the party).

[doko239]

There are some Sorcerer bloodlines that fit Barbarian themes nicely:

Fey/Sylvan: Nature magic, druid-esque. Sylvan gets you an animal companion.

Orcish: Large boost to Str, increased damage on all spells

Primal: Elemental spells deal more damage, cast certain spells with your element's energy type instead of the normal type.

[Invader]

I'm not usually a big fan of bards but I'd agree that a bard would compliment this group nicely. I'd try to go with some kind of ranged bard build that focuses on buffing and skill monkying.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I suggest Bard or Ranger. In either case, built for ranged combat with a bow. Note that certain aspects of the bard's buffing are morale still and won't stack with Rage, Superstition rage power, etc...

Don't be a rogue. If you want to melee sneak attack, try to get Vivvisectionist Beastmorph Alchemist allowed. You have no bombs at all, and all poison-related stuff is also gone. Furthermore, with feral mutagen and the beastmorph stuff, you'll fit right in as a different sort of "battle rager."

[Arbane]

I'm not usually a big fan of bards but I'd agree that a bard would compliment this group nicely. I'd try to go with some kind of ranged bard build that focuses on buffing and skill monkying.

The Savage Skald (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/savage-skald) archetype might be worth looking at, with this crew.

[JellyPooga]

You should totally go for the Rogue idea.

Really ham it up as being the lank-haired, skinny, runt-of-the-litter, black sheep of the tribe. With the other big burly barbarians in the party, you have a real opportunity to play the one who can make some of the "dishonourable" choices that the 'noble warriors' of the tribe would never make, but are really the best choices in the given situation. Being the 'brains behind the brawn' of the group, coming up with cunning plans that most of the others barely grasp the point of, let alone the subtlety that makes it a brilliant plan. Being the only guy able to sneak up front, clearing the way like a literal knife-in-the-dark, disarming the traps that would cripple the others should they blunder into them.

[hoverfrog]

No wizard? How about a sorcerer instead?

[Belril Duskwalk]

I've only played one Oracle so far, but the Mystery of Time is all kinds of fun so far, and I combined it by recently taking Sands of Time (and other time-fluff-able spells along with it; healing spells are accelerated time, buffs are temporal insights, haste when I can pick it up, and with the Seer archetype, I Know Everything (sometimes).

But really, it depends on what you want to do.
Mystery of Battle is a given if you want to pretend to be a fighter.
Nature if you want druidic fluff without the druid features.
Life for healing and rejuvinating, but that may be superfluous for you.
Spellscar looks something like a demi-warlock build.
Dark Tapestry if you want to be that creepy person in the back who knows more than they should and isn't worried enough about their own health.

Mystery of Metal is almost as good as Battle for going front-line combat with your Oracle.
Mystery of Ancestors seems wildly appropriate for a Barbarian society and allows you a number of fun revelations that draw on the power of ancestral spirits to increase combat efficacy.
Mystery of Flame allows for an almost disturbing amount of fire-based blasting, which always seems like great fun to me even if it isn't terribly effective (given a 3-barbarian party, efficacy is pretty well out the window anyway though).

[grarrrg]

First off. In a group as Barb heavy as this, most of you should be Half-Orcs (if not Full-Orcs).
The Feat Sympathetic Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sympathetic-rage-combat) can GREATLY extend your collective daily Rounds of Rage, add in the Amplified Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/amplified-rage-teamwork) Teamwork feat will increase ANY Rage Str/Con bonuses by _+4_.
If the other Barbarians are currently NOT Orc-ish, show them these feats and convince them otherwise.


If I went oracle, what mystery would you recommend? I tend to have terrible taste when it comes to picking domains, mysteries, etc.

Good/Flavorful Mysteries
Battle/Metal, are the best 'combat' mysteries, Battle has better flavor for "horde of Barbarians" though.
Ancestor, 3rd best 'combat' mystery, good flavor match.
Juju fits flavor-wise.
Flame/Nature/Stone all fit for being 'Barbarian Elementals'


As for all the people suggesting Rogue, I counter-suggest Seeker Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/seeker-oracle). You get Trapfinding as if a Rogue.


You can also go Rage Prophet if you choose to, never looked at exactly how good the PrC is, but it always seemed pretty interesting and in this case, fitting.

Rage Prophet is...sub-par.
It's decent, but you'll "probably" be better off as either a single class Barbarian OR Oracle.
That being said, if you do decide on Rage Prophet...

For a Melee-Focused build (Barb 5/Oracle 1/Prophet X+), take the Nature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/nature) Mystery and grab the Nature's Whispers Revelation. It uses CHA for AC instead of DEX, so you can focus your stats more on STR/CON/CHA and not be spread so thin.

For a Caster-Focused build (Barb 2/Oracle 4/Prophet X+), you should DEFINITELY go Half-Orc and take Sympathetic Rage. The reasons are two-fold. First, you'll be down (at least) 3 caster levels, so you'll have fewer/weaker spells, so you'll probably find yourself in Melee more often. Secondly, you'll only have 2 Barb levels worth of Rage (until Prophet level 6 anyway), Sympathetic can REALLY extend your Daily Raging (lesser bonuses, but still bonuses).

[Larpus]

Don't be a rogue. If you want to melee sneak attack, try to get Vivvisectionist Beastmorph Alchemist allowed. You have no bombs at all, and all poison-related stuff is also gone. Furthermore, with feral mutagen and the beastmorph stuff, you'll fit right in as a different sort of "battle rager."
I agree on this if you're going for effectiveness, as Vivisectionist is pretty much Rogue + buffs (even with some 'unique' buffs for your teammates, by 'unique' I mean Range: Personal stuff).

As for reasoning, Alchemists are, by fluff, rogue magicians that dwell with shady and potentially prohibited stuff, so going chest open to a tribe of Barbarians so you can study how they rage and get powers from spirits is right up your alley.

All that said, the group is already pretty melee-y, so I guess a ranged control-based Alchemist would be better to help the Witch.


Rage Prophet is...sub-par.
It's decent, but you'll "probably" be better off as either a single class Barbarian OR Oracle.
That being said, if you do decide on Rage Prophet...

For a Melee-Focused build (Barb 5/Oracle 1/Prophet X+), take the Nature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/nature) Mystery and grab the Nature's Whispers Revelation. It uses CHA for AC instead of DEX, so you can focus your stats more on STR/CON/CHA and not be spread so thin.

For a Caster-Focused build (Barb 2/Oracle 4/Prophet X+), you should DEFINITELY go Half-Orc and take Sympathetic Rage. The reasons are two-fold. First, you'll be down (at least) 3 caster levels, so you'll have fewer/weaker spells, so you'll probably find yourself in Melee more often. Secondly, you'll only have 2 Barb levels worth of Rage (until Prophet level 6 anyway), Sympathetic can REALLY extend your Daily Raging (lesser bonuses, but still bonuses).
Nice info, the PrC always picked my interest as I'm a big Barbarian fan, but I'm scared as a little girl from divine casters and spontaneous casters, so I never came even half-close to making one.

[SSGoW]

If you have a heavy rager then you might want them to look at human. They can replace one of their racial traits with an ability to ignore fatigue 1/day.

It can come in pretty handy :p

[Little Brother]

You need a good excuse for a Wizard? Do you mind being at least a little south of good in the alignment? If so, here' the best excuse:
Wizard is booted from the college/Wizard society/thingy/banished from some kingdom in the path of the barbarian horde/ect for something or other. Forbidden experiments, digging into some conspiracy, or what have you. So, he figures manipulating the horde, or just helping them if their going in that direction, is the best way to get vengeance. Summoner could work for that as well, but, since you have healing, a Wizard for buffs and such seems like a good idea.

Is 3.5 material allowed? A Rage Mages are fun to play.

What level are you starting at?

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you do make a Bard, it'd be almost criminal for you to not have the Invigorate spell given the group composition... :smallsmile:

[hoverfrog]

What kind of barbarians are they? Conan, Thor, Fafhrd, Thrud, Hercules, the Warriors Three? Typical half orc barbarian maybe. What races are you limited to?