Thanos Optimization Challenge

[Man on Fire]

I come to you with new optimization challenge. Making D&D build that allows you to play this gentleman:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NeERrkDjHR4/T5ojKNNl7kI/AAAAAAAAlZ0/s61BCL1frnE/s1600/Thanos_Avengers-2012+(4).jpg

Thanos, the Mad Titan from Marvel Comics, one of their most iconic vilians.
Thanos is master manipulator and schemer, has shown to have numerous nadnatural abilities, like telepathy, telekinesis, energy projection and absorbtion, is also extremely strong (stronger than Hulk) and has acess to many powerful technologies. He is also in love with Death herself.

Now, optimized build should:
* Have some sort of connection to Death
* Reflect both his intelligence and vast knowledge.
* Vast magic/psionic abilities with emphasis on strong offensive power
* Strength and Constitution to take any opponent, without use of weapons (Thanos have been rarerly seen using a weapons, usually relying on his fists, technology (seen using protective fields for example) and powers in combat)
* Doesn't have to be very fast, Thanos is quite slow in combat.
* Optional Bonus: Thanos haven't been seen in armor too much either, so additional challenge - make him not wear one.

[ThiagoMartell]

Wizard 20.
Alternatively, Artificer 20. Most of his power comes from devices, anyway.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Wizard 20.
Alternatively, Artificer 20. Most of his power comes from devices, anyway.

While this is true, I can't help but feel that Wizard 20 is kind of a cop-out. I mean, the Hulk can be built with Wizard 20 with Shapechange into Unkillable Green Badass, but doesn't Human Expert 2/Stoneblessed (Goliath) 3/Barbarian 1 (Goliath sub level with Spirit Bear Totem)/War Hulk 10/Frenzied Berserker 4 with Troll-Blooded, Reckless Rage, and a trigger-activated Ring of Enlarge Person and Prestidigatation (triggers when character becomes Large-sized for Large -> Huge and green color), and possibly some other shenanigans that allow you to continuously gain STR and/or CON by taking damage while raging (effectively extending his rage rounds as long as he continues taking damage; the closest I can think of is the spell Masochism, but I know someone who is better at this than me will figure it out) fit the bill a little more exactly?

That said, I don't have the time at the moment to try to begin to build Thanos, but seeing as I (and many others) have built most of the Avengers at some point (although my Hawkeye and Black Widow are kind of... Underwhelming, which I guess is also true of the characters relative to Iron Man, Thor, and the freakin' Hulk) I could perhaps give it a try later on (if somebody who isn't better at this than me doesn't do it first).

[Riev]

What about something like Ranger1/StP Erudite6/Slayer10. Phrenic Goliath works as a race, big grey psychic bloke.

Feat ideas;
1-Magic in the blood
R-Track
3-Legendary Artisan
6- Craft Psionic Arms and Armour
9- Craft Universal Item
12-Craft Psionic Construct
15- Exceptional Artisan

[Arcanist]

What about something like Ranger1/StP Erudite6/Slayer10. Phrenic Goliath works as a race, big grey psychic bloke.

Feat ideas;
1-Magic in the blood
R-Track
3-Legendary Artisan
6- Craft Psionic Arms and Armour
9- Craft Universal Item
12-Craft Psionic Construct
15- Exceptional Artisan

If memory serves Thanos can be stated out as a Psion or an Erudite with great ease :smallconfused: (Goliath of course) However an Erudite/Wizard Cerebremancer +4 Psionic progression (Or another Theurge class that progresses Psionics and Arcane would be awesome) looks like it would accomplish everything you would need... Feats however? Eh... a little to complicated for my taste...

But Thanos could be stated out as a Psi/Arc Theruge

[ThiagoMartell]

Ranger? :smallconfused:
Phrenic Goliath is a good choice for race, well thought out.
I'd go with Phrenic Goliath Artificer 20.

[Zonugal]

Alright, let's take a look at the "Mad Titan."

For abilities he has:
* Super-Strength
-- Highly skilled combatant
* Super-Intelligence
* Super-Dexterity
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed
* Extreme-Endurance
* Super-Durability
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation
* Immortality
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor
* Psionics
-- Telepathy
-- Psionic Resistance
-- Offensive Psionic Projections

So there are two ways we can go about this. The first is giving Thanos a divine rank or two. This will grant him considerable power and get us really close to where he is power-wise. I mean this is a dude who destroys planets, he's powerful...

The second is merely playing around with some templates & seeing what we could get us at the cusp of epic. I'll choose to pursue this one.

So first we need to set the stage, race.

Thanos is an immortal, cosmically-powerful Titan, he deserves something appropriate. Now I like the previously mentioned idea of Phrenic Goliath as a base, it adds some nice features. Psi-like abilities, power resistance (hit-die + 10), powerful build, mountain movement and stat bonuses (+4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, int +2, wis +2, cha +4).

But this is still lacking. So lets apply the heavy hitter, the Paragon template.

Now we're looking at max hp (+12 hp per hit-die), triple movement speed, high AC-bonuses, high attack & damage bonuses, fire & cold resistance 10, damage reduction 10/epic, spell resistance (CR +25), fast healing 20), improved saves & skills, and +15 to every stat.

So already, without any classes locked in, Thanos is looking at a CR of +18. Assuming we're not being bound to any type of point-buy system we'll provide starting stats such as these:
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 14

After the racial & template bonuses he'll have:
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 35, Wis 31, Cha 33

And after level-adjusted boosts (4th, 8th, 12th, 16th & 20th):
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 40, Wis 31, Cha 33

So, I think with everything above we're off to a good foundation for Thanos. Moving forward, character build/classes.

Now someone suggested combining Erudite with an arcane class which I felt was pretty good but feels like it has too much overlap. Erudite is an amazing class and power-wise fits not only the level that Thanos is playing at but also provides him the flexibility & versatility a character in his station might adopt. Also with the Spell-to-Power ACF, because he has it (no debate), he has his pick of psionic powers & arcane spells. Now the only way to improve upon this is not through more arcane spells but through divine ones. Thanos, in addition to being a power-mad warlord, is a devout worshiper of Death. He draws power from his faith, admiration and principally love of Death. And while this may all seem to culminate in the addition of Cleric, we can still do better. We want to combine these gifts and sadly Cleric isn't going to reach 9th-level spells in contest with Erudite. So we shift our goals & flavor. Thanos doesn't just worship Death, he wants it to be the only god. He wants to elevate Death to higher-levels and show everyone that only Death is a worthy patron. So we bend some flavor and come upon Ur-Priest prestige class and through the use of the Psychic Theurge prestige class we can combine their talents and end with a build looking something like this.

Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9. We'll end up with a BaB of +9 (which will be substituted by Divine Power), 9th-level powers (8th-level arcane powers via spell-to-power conversion) & 9th-level divine spells.

So far this is a powerful character who is nearly hitting triple nines for arcane, divine & psionic access. But let's focus on attaining Thanos' powers.

As posted before, but now with comparative aligning:
* Super-Strength: At a natural state he has a strength of 40 which is stronger than a Balor, a Pit Fiend & a Solar, and puts him in direct competition with a couple of Great Wyrms. So in the world of D&D he's strong. But through divine spells like Divine Power (+6) you can continue to up his might.
-- Highly skilled combatant: While his base BaB of +9 is nothing amazing he'll have access to Divine Power which immediately puts him in a nice spot. With that & the Paragon template you can easily be looking at +62 to his attacks. So with that and your powers/spells he'll be fine here.
* Super-Intelligence: With an Int of 40 he's out-smarting a great deal of creatures including heavy hitters like Balors, Pit Fiends and Solars. With a single skill point in any knowledge skill he can immediately answer hard questions (and higher when rolling).
* Super-Dexterity: His Dex score of 31 isn't crazy high but is still very good for some one as large as him.
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed: Reflexes-wise he'll have around a +27 bonus which should cover his bases (although spells/powers/items can always assist). His speed is 90 ft. per round, so at fifteen feet a second he is quick by any standard. Agility-wise his Dex of 31 is nice support and a casting of Divine Agility only improves upon it.
* Extreme-Endurance: He should be looking at an average of 596 hit points and through spells/powers he can have enough buffs to make himself shrug through any encounter.
* Super-Durability: With an average of 596 hit points and access to some of the best buff spells/powers he will simply be untouchable (as is typical for a high-level caster).
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation: If room is open at 1st-level, and I don't imagine why it wouldn't be, picking up Spellfire Wielder from Magic of Faerun is a great feat that does a great job of mimicking this ability. Spells are cast at you and only fuel your ability to heal or hurt.
* Immortality: This is easily covered with spells (like Steal Life from BoVD), or taking Webbed to History as a 1st-level feat.
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor: While this build doesn't have any active regeneration ability it does possess Fast Healing 20, which is pretty impressive. Anything beyond that can be covered through spells/powers.
* Psionics: He's an 18th-level Erudite, he's got this covered.
-- Telepathy: He doesn't have this is a straight-up ability he can mimic it through different psionic powers.
-- Psionic Resistance: He has Power Resistance of 30 and Spell Resistance of 63, he should be good here.
-- Offensive Psionic Projections: A lot of different powers can cover all of his psionic tricks/talents.

So what do you think?

[Arcanist]

Alright, let's take a look at the "Mad Titan."

For abilities he has:
* Super-Strength
-- Highly skilled combatant
* Super-Intelligence
* Super-Dexterity
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed
* Extreme-Endurance
* Super-Durability
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation
* Immortality
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor
* Psionics
-- Telepathy
-- Psionic Resistance
-- Offensive Psionic Projections

So there are two ways we can go about this. The first is giving Thanos a divine rank or two. This will grant him considerable power and get us really close to where he is power-wise. I mean this is a dude who destroys planets, he's powerful...

The second is merely playing around with some templates & seeing what we could get us at the cusp of epic. I'll choose to pursue this one.

So first we need to set the stage, race.

Thanos is an immortal, cosmically-powerful Titan, he deserves something appropriate. Now I like the previously mentioned idea of Phrenic Goliath as a base, it adds some nice features. Psi-like abilities, power resistance (hit-die + 10), powerful build, mountain movement and stat bonuses (+4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, int +2, wis +2, cha +4).

But this is still lacking. So lets apply the heavy hitter, the Paragon template.

Now we're looking at max hp (+12 hp per hit-die), triple movement speed, high AC-bonuses, high attack & damage bonuses, fire & cold resistance 10, damage reduction 10/epic, spell resistance (CR +25), fast healing 20), improved saves & skills, and +15 to every stat.

So already, without any classes locked in, Thanos is looking at a CR of +18. Assuming we're not being bound to any type of point-buy system we'll provide starting stats such as these:
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 14

After the racial & template bonuses he'll have:
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 35, Wis 31, Cha 33

And after level-adjusted boosts (4th, 8th, 12th, 16th & 20th):
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 40, Wis 31, Cha 33

So, I think with everything above we're off to a good foundation for Thanos. Moving forward, character build/classes.

Now someone suggested combining Erudite with an arcane class which I felt was pretty good but feels like it has too much overlap. Erudite is an amazing class and power-wise fits not only the level that Thanos is playing at but also provides him the flexibility & versatility a character in his station might adopt. Also with the Spell-to-Power ACF, because he has it (no debate), he has his pick of psionic powers & arcane spells. Now the only way to improve upon this is not through more arcane spells but through divine ones. Thanos, in addition to being a power-mad warlord, is a devout worshiper of Death. He draws power from his faith, admiration and principally love of Death. And while this may all seem to culminate in the addition of Cleric, we can still do better. We want to combine these gifts and sadly Cleric isn't going to reach 9th-level spells in contest with Erudite. So we shift our goals & flavor. Thanos doesn't just worship Death, he wants it to be the only god. He wants to elevate Death to higher-levels and show everyone that only Death is a worthy patron. So we bend some flavor and come upon Ur-Priest prestige class and through the use of the Psychic Theurge prestige class we can combine their talents and end with a build looking something like this.

Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9. We'll end up with a BaB of +9 (which will be substituted by Divine Power), 9th-level powers (8th-level arcane powers via spell-to-power conversion) & 9th-level divine spells.

So far this is a powerful character who is nearly hitting triple nines for arcane, divine & psionic access. But let's focus on attaining Thanos' powers.

As posted before, but now with comparative aligning:
* Super-Strength: At a natural state he has a strength of 40 which is stronger than a Balor, a Pit Fiend & a Solar, and puts him in direct competition with a couple of Great Wyrms. So in the world of D&D he's strong. But through divine spells like Divine Power (+6) you can continue to up his might.
-- Highly skilled combatant: While his base BaB of +9 is nothing amazing he'll have access to Divine Power which immediately puts him in a nice spot. With that & the Paragon template you can easily be looking at +62 to his attacks. So with that and your powers/spells he'll be fine here.
* Super-Intelligence: With an Int of 40 he's out-smarting a great deal of creatures including heavy hitters like Balors, Pit Fiends and Solars. With a single skill point in any knowledge skill he can immediately answer hard questions (and higher when rolling).
* Super-Dexterity: His Dex score of 31 isn't crazy high but is still very good for some one as large as him.
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed: Reflexes-wise he'll have around a +27 bonus which should cover his bases (although spells/powers/items can always assist). His speed is 90 ft. per round, so at fifteen feet a second he is quick by any standard. Agility-wise his Dex of 31 is nice support and a casting of Divine Agility only improves upon it.
* Extreme-Endurance: He should be looking at an average of 596 hit points and through spells/powers he can have enough buffs to make himself shrug through any encounter.
* Super-Durability: With an average of 596 hit points and access to some of the best buff spells/powers he will simply be untouchable (as is typical for a high-level caster).
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation: If room is open at 1st-level, and I don't imagine why it wouldn't be, picking up Spellfire Wielder from Magic of Faerun is a great feat that does a great job of mimicking this ability. Spells are cast at you and only fuel your ability to heal or hurt.
* Immortality: This is easily covered with spells (like Steal Life from BoVD), or taking Webbed to History as a 1st-level feat.
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor: While this build doesn't have any active regeneration ability it does possess Fast Healing 20, which is pretty impressive. Anything beyond that can be covered through spells/powers.
* Psionics: He's an 18th-level Erudite, he's got this covered.
-- Telepathy: He doesn't have this is a straight-up ability he can mimic it through different psionic powers.
-- Psionic Resistance: He has Power Resistance of 30 and Spell Resistance of 63, he should be good here.
-- Offensive Psionic Projections: A lot of different powers can cover all of his psionic tricks/talents.

So what do you think?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyuszdCAeN1r708tk.jpg

Alright so we have the build and shape of the character now all we need is the fluff feats :smallamused:

EDIT: are we using WBL? :smallconfused: because if we can then Thanos is effectively killing the world... with the greatest of ease...

[ThiagoMartell]

A divine rank is a bit too much for Thanos. He is on, say, Adam Warlock's level, which is still below the Silver Surfer (the Surfer might have divine rank 0, though).
I don't think the Paragon template is adequate. Thanos is strong, but if you consider all Marvel characters in a D&D environement, you'll end up giving that template to most of them. I'd avoid it.



are we using WBL? :smallconfused: because if we can then Thanos is effectively killing the world... with the greatest of ease...
That's usually what he does, isn't it? He seems to have nearly unlimited resources, even.

[Arcanist]

A divine rank is a bit too much for Thanos. He is on, say, Adam Warlock's level, which is still below the Silver Surfer (the Surfer might have divine rank 0, though).
I don't think the Paragon template is adequate. Thanos is strong, but if you consider all Marvel characters in a D&D environement, you'll end up giving that template to most of them. I'd avoid it.

I actually saw a stating out of the Heralds of Galactus (and Galactus himself) Galactus was an Overdeity and his Heralds were Lesser deities. I can't remember the forum i found it on (It was way back when i restarted D&D) but If i do (or anyone else does) feel free to post it, I remember it being pretty cool looking :smallamused:


That's usually what he does, isn't it? He seems to have nearly unlimited resources, even.

Actually, if memory serves Thanos would rather conquer the universe to watch it die then just destroy it all instantly... He wants the universe to die slowly, not in a single flash, He wants everyone to experience the glory of death slowly...

[ThiagoMartell]

I actually saw a stating out of the Heralds of Galactus (and Galactus himself) Galactus was an Overdeity and his Heralds were Lesser deities. I can't remember the forum i found it on (It was way back when i restarted D&D) but If i do (or anyone else does) feel free to post it, I remember it being pretty cool looking :smallamused:

From all I've seen, Thanos has a lot less personal power than a herald.
In his own minisseries, Thanos needed to pull shenanigans to hurt a weakened Galactus. Soon after, during Annihilation, the Surfer is chosen by Galactus himself to aid him in fighting a pair of his equals.
Power levels in Marvel comics fluctuate a lot, but I think Surfer > Thanos is a quite consistent portrayal. Of course, Thanos can (and does) get more powerful than Surfer with his inventions/gadgets/shenanigans.

[Arcanist]

From all I've seen, Thanos has a lot less personal power than a herald.
In his own minisseries, Thanos needed to pull shenanigans to hurt a weakened Galactus. Soon after, during Annihilation, the Surfer is chosen by Galactus himself to aid him in fighting a pair of his equals.
Power levels in Marvel comics fluctuate a lot, but I think Surfer > Thanos is a quite consistent portrayal. Of course, Thanos can (and does) get more powerful than Surfer with his inventions/gadgets/shenanigans.

I'm familiar with the pecking order in Marvel and I know damn well that Reed Richards > Everyone. Does this mean he has a Divine Rank? No, it just means he knows what hes doing! :smallamused: (Effectively he is better then Batman... less famous but certainly capable of beating Batman at his own game)

Anywho! Galactus and his Heralds are (if i'm not forgetting anyone) the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe (and in the Amalgam universe) without question, only able to be killed by rare artifacts and epic shenanigans

I'm actually semi-curious how the Optimizers on the playground would handle the Sentry (Robert Reynolds) :smallamused:

[Little Brother]

Slightly off-topic - I object to saying Thanos could beat the Hulk. He did, but that was "Professor" Hulk, and . The merged Hulk is weak compared to most of the other Hulks(I believe his strength was comparable to "Joe Fixit," that one grey Hulk, though I may be misremembering). He's still got the pushover elements of Banner's personality. Mindless Hulk injured Onslaught, and probably could have beaten him if he'd lasted a little longer. Green Scar could totally beat Thanos. Remember, the Hulk's strength and healing factor are limitless. He can JUMP faster than light as Green Scar.
/hulkfan

Thanos is only really super dangerous when he has the Gauntlet. Anyone is. I could get the Gauntlet and rule the universe.

Professor X could kill Thanos easily. Wipe his brain like he did Magneto's. Or remake Onslaught if worst came to worst./Thanoshater

On topic,
lright, let's take a look at the "Mad Titan."

For abilities he has:
* Super-Strength
-- Highly skilled combatant
* Super-Intelligence
* Super-Dexterity
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed
* Extreme-Endurance
* Super-Durability
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation
* Immortality
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor
* Psionics
-- Telepathy
-- Psionic Resistance
-- Offensive Psionic Projections

So there are two ways we can go about this. The first is giving Thanos a divine rank or two. This will grant him considerable power and get us really close to where he is power-wise. I mean this is a dude who destroys planets, he's powerful...

The second is merely playing around with some templates & seeing what we could get us at the cusp of epic. I'll choose to pursue this one.

So first we need to set the stage, race.

Thanos is an immortal, cosmically-powerful Titan, he deserves something appropriate. Now I like the previously mentioned idea of Phrenic Goliath as a base, it adds some nice features. Psi-like abilities, power resistance (hit-die + 10), powerful build, mountain movement and stat bonuses (+4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, int +2, wis +2, cha +4).

But this is still lacking. So lets apply the heavy hitter, the Paragon template.

Now we're looking at max hp (+12 hp per hit-die), triple movement speed, high AC-bonuses, high attack & damage bonuses, fire & cold resistance 10, damage reduction 10/epic, spell resistance (CR +25), fast healing 20), improved saves & skills, and +15 to every stat.

So already, without any classes locked in, Thanos is looking at a CR of +18. Assuming we're not being bound to any type of point-buy system we'll provide starting stats such as these:
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 14

After the racial & template bonuses he'll have:
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 35, Wis 31, Cha 33

And after level-adjusted boosts (4th, 8th, 12th, 16th & 20th):
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 40, Wis 31, Cha 33

So, I think with everything above we're off to a good foundation for Thanos. Moving forward, character build/classes.

Now someone suggested combining Erudite with an arcane class which I felt was pretty good but feels like it has too much overlap. Erudite is an amazing class and power-wise fits not only the level that Thanos is playing at but also provides him the flexibility & versatility a character in his station might adopt. Also with the Spell-to-Power ACF, because he has it (no debate), he has his pick of psionic powers & arcane spells. Now the only way to improve upon this is not through more arcane spells but through divine ones. Thanos, in addition to being a power-mad warlord, is a devout worshiper of Death. He draws power from his faith, admiration and principally love of Death. And while this may all seem to culminate in the addition of Cleric, we can still do better. We want to combine these gifts and sadly Cleric isn't going to reach 9th-level spells in contest with Erudite. So we shift our goals & flavor. Thanos doesn't just worship Death, he wants it to be the only god. He wants to elevate Death to higher-levels and show everyone that only Death is a worthy patron. So we bend some flavor and come upon Ur-Priest prestige class and through the use of the Psychic Theurge prestige class we can combine their talents and end with a build looking something like this.

Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9. We'll end up with a BaB of +9 (which will be substituted by Divine Power), 9th-level powers (8th-level arcane powers via spell-to-power conversion) & 9th-level divine spells.

So far this is a powerful character who is nearly hitting triple nines for arcane, divine & psionic access. But let's focus on attaining Thanos' powers.

As posted before, but now with comparative aligning:
* Super-Strength: At a natural state he has a strength of 40 which is stronger than a Balor, a Pit Fiend & a Solar, and puts him in direct competition with a couple of Great Wyrms. So in the world of D&D he's strong. But through divine spells like Divine Power (+6) you can continue to up his might.
-- Highly skilled combatant: While his base BaB of +9 is nothing amazing he'll have access to Divine Power which immediately puts him in a nice spot. With that & the Paragon template you can easily be looking at +62 to his attacks. So with that and your powers/spells he'll be fine here.
* Super-Intelligence: With an Int of 40 he's out-smarting a great deal of creatures including heavy hitters like Balors, Pit Fiends and Solars. With a single skill point in any knowledge skill he can immediately answer hard questions (and higher when rolling).
* Super-Dexterity: His Dex score of 31 isn't crazy high but is still very good for some one as large as him.
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed: Reflexes-wise he'll have around a +27 bonus which should cover his bases (although spells/powers/items can always assist). His speed is 90 ft. per round, so at fifteen feet a second he is quick by any standard. Agility-wise his Dex of 31 is nice support and a casting of Divine Agility only improves upon it.
* Extreme-Endurance: He should be looking at an average of 596 hit points and through spells/powers he can have enough buffs to make himself shrug through any encounter.
* Super-Durability: With an average of 596 hit points and access to some of the best buff spells/powers he will simply be untouchable (as is typical for a high-level caster).
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation: If room is open at 1st-level, and I don't imagine why it wouldn't be, picking up Spellfire Wielder from Magic of Faerun is a great feat that does a great job of mimicking this ability. Spells are cast at you and only fuel your ability to heal or hurt.
* Immortality: This is easily covered with spells (like Steal Life from BoVD), or taking Webbed to History as a 1st-level feat.
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor: While this build doesn't have any active regeneration ability it does possess Fast Healing 20, which is pretty impressive. Anything beyond that can be covered through spells/powers.
* Psionics: He's an 18th-level Erudite, he's got this covered.
-- Telepathy: He doesn't have this is a straight-up ability he can mimic it through different psionic powers.
-- Psionic Resistance: He has Power Resistance of 30 and Spell Resistance of 63, he should be good here.
-- Offensive Psionic Projections: A lot of different powers can cover all of his psionic tricks/talents.

So what do you think?I like it a lot.

I would like to point out that, given how ridiculous a lot of Marvel characters are, a lot of them probably have at least comparable statlines.

Now, a more important question: How would the Infinity Gauntlet work in 3.5?

[lorddrake]

Now, a more important question: How would the Infinity Gauntlet work in 3.5?

You have, you win.

In a more serious note. I just DM'd an avengers game IRL and it was about Thanos trying to seize the infinity gems and the players (The Hulk, Wolverine and Dr. Strange) trying to stop him.

They ended up fighting Mephisto, Dracula, Human Torch, Iceman, Super Adaptoid and Thanos himself. It was fun.

Since it was homebrew-heavy his build would mean nothing on this thread.

[Little Brother]

You have, you win.That seems about accurate.

To be fair, though, a Ring of Three Wishes is the same. So are a lot of things.

In a more serious note. I just DM'd an avengers game IRL and it was about Thanos trying to seize the infinity gems and the players (The Hulk, Wolverine and Dr. Strange) trying to stop him.Doctor Strange and the Hulk? Plus Wolverine(Even though he really shouldn't matter in comparison)? That SHOULD be able to stomp anything in a heartbeat. The Hulk has literally limitless(potential) strength, and Doctor Strange might as well be named Doctor Plot Device. He is the strongest being in that universe that isn't a cosmic force, like Galactus/Death/etc. He could probably whoop all the gods from all the Marvel pantheons at once.

I mean, really, he basically is a level 20 or Epic wizard with some SERIOUS loot.

They ended up fighting Mephisto, Dracula, Human Torch, Iceman, Super Adaptoid and Thanos himself. It was fun.Iceman? He could, theoretically, end the game right there, if it wasn't for the broken healing factors. Just throw them into absolute zero, since his power is basically limitless, problem solved unless Doctor Plot Device prepped Cold Immunity. The rest of them, beyond Thanos, are weak enough not to matter, and Thanos would only be dangerous if he got the Gauntlet. Otherwise, he's basically a mid-level wizard with high strength(And some serious WBL).

[Krazzman]

To be a bit picky but Batman compared to Marvel Heroes... he can beat everyone of them... yes even the Marvel-Supermanthing that ripped Ares in half.

Bruce Wayne can beat spiderman to a bloody pulp. Why? Because DC heroes are stronger according to their rulesets. You can't really compare them because the standart Human is stronger in DC than he is in Marvel.

That said: another +1 to Zonugal.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm going to say that the best you can do is make a Thanos inspired build, not Thanos himself.

Thanos himself is far too powerful to realistically and easily recreate in Dungeons and Dragons (without overshooting his actual ability through some PunPun build) because of his massively varied and high scale power set:

Through sheer physical strength he's capable of destroying planets as collateral damage. He is strong enough to stalemate/beat Classic Drax the Destroyer, manhandle Thor and The Thing in a 2 v 1 and visibly stun Drax and Professor Hulk with a single back hand.
Through pure durability he can survive and resist the pull of a Black hole.
Even before being rendered truly immortal he had complete control of his molecular structure and could only be killed by the dispersion of most of his molecular structure.
He is a mage on par with a non-jobbering, non-classic Doctor Strange
He is a scientist who makes Reed Richards and Doctor Doom look like slack jawed morons. His personal force fields alone can withstand slightly exertive blasts from Galactus and his clones/duplicates are so perfect even the Watcher can't tell.
He has energy and matter manipulation feats on par if not sometimes better than the Silver Surfer.
He is a psychic comparable to Moondragon with the Mind Gem (I think, might be her without it, been a while since I read any Moondragon) who makes a near global psychic like Professor Xavier look like a joke.
He is one of the most competent Martial Artists in Marvel. He personally trained Gamora himself to be the Galaxy's deadliest assassin and she is one of Marvel's best fighters herself.


Edit:

@Krazz: No. Without Batgod and and incredible amounts of PIS and the right dosage of CIS, Shang-Chi would take Bruce in a fight. Spider-man would win if he wanted to and Godmode Sue Sentry would smear him on the floor.

Yes, DC's hierarchy scales in power a lot higher and a lot faster than Marvel does, but Batman is only awesome sauce if the writer makes him so. On paper, he loses candidly to Captain America.


@Thiago: Thanos has won or visibly dominated the good bulk of his fights with the Silver Surfer and I wouldn't talk about Adam Warlock like he was weak, especially since he tends to have the Soul Gem in his possession. :smallconfused:

And let's not forget that for a time, Thanos had Galactus' First Herald as his personal whipping boy before Tenebrous and Aegis killed The Fallen One.


@Little: Ok, that post is full of things that are wrong and things that are insulting:

First off, Professor Hulk's base stats were greater than any incarnation of the Hulk till that point, even Savage Hulk. What made Professor Hulk weaker in the long run was the fact he didn't possess the Rage Factor.

Second off, Thanos would murder Green Scar. His power set is far too massive and varied to be beaten by someone who's a Brick with a Healing Factor. He could just sit comfortably behind his force field and do a multi-pronged assault on the Hulk's mind and body while draining off his Gamma energy.

Now, Green Scar would do the best against Thanos of any Hulk incarnartion (aside from the overhyped "Gamma Father" Hulk) but he'd still get beat soundly.

[Man on Fire]

Alright, let's take a look at the "Mad Titan."

For abilities he has:
* Super-Strength
-- Highly skilled combatant
* Super-Intelligence
* Super-Dexterity
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed
* Extreme-Endurance
* Super-Durability
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation
* Immortality
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor
* Psionics
-- Telepathy
-- Psionic Resistance
-- Offensive Psionic Projections

So there are two ways we can go about this. The first is giving Thanos a divine rank or two. This will grant him considerable power and get us really close to where he is power-wise. I mean this is a dude who destroys planets, he's powerful...

The second is merely playing around with some templates & seeing what we could get us at the cusp of epic. I'll choose to pursue this one.

So first we need to set the stage, race.

Thanos is an immortal, cosmically-powerful Titan, he deserves something appropriate. Now I like the previously mentioned idea of Phrenic Goliath as a base, it adds some nice features. Psi-like abilities, power resistance (hit-die + 10), powerful build, mountain movement and stat bonuses (+4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, int +2, wis +2, cha +4).

But this is still lacking. So lets apply the heavy hitter, the Paragon template.

Now we're looking at max hp (+12 hp per hit-die), triple movement speed, high AC-bonuses, high attack & damage bonuses, fire & cold resistance 10, damage reduction 10/epic, spell resistance (CR +25), fast healing 20), improved saves & skills, and +15 to every stat.

So already, without any classes locked in, Thanos is looking at a CR of +18. Assuming we're not being bound to any type of point-buy system we'll provide starting stats such as these:
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 14

After the racial & template bonuses he'll have:
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 35, Wis 31, Cha 33

And after level-adjusted boosts (4th, 8th, 12th, 16th & 20th):
Str 40, Dex 31, Con 35, Int 40, Wis 31, Cha 33

So, I think with everything above we're off to a good foundation for Thanos. Moving forward, character build/classes.

Now someone suggested combining Erudite with an arcane class which I felt was pretty good but feels like it has too much overlap. Erudite is an amazing class and power-wise fits not only the level that Thanos is playing at but also provides him the flexibility & versatility a character in his station might adopt. Also with the Spell-to-Power ACF, because he has it (no debate), he has his pick of psionic powers & arcane spells. Now the only way to improve upon this is not through more arcane spells but through divine ones. Thanos, in addition to being a power-mad warlord, is a devout worshiper of Death. He draws power from his faith, admiration and principally love of Death. And while this may all seem to culminate in the addition of Cleric, we can still do better. We want to combine these gifts and sadly Cleric isn't going to reach 9th-level spells in contest with Erudite. So we shift our goals & flavor. Thanos doesn't just worship Death, he wants it to be the only god. He wants to elevate Death to higher-levels and show everyone that only Death is a worthy patron. So we bend some flavor and come upon Ur-Priest prestige class and through the use of the Psychic Theurge prestige class we can combine their talents and end with a build looking something like this.

Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9. We'll end up with a BaB of +9 (which will be substituted by Divine Power), 9th-level powers (8th-level arcane powers via spell-to-power conversion) & 9th-level divine spells.

So far this is a powerful character who is nearly hitting triple nines for arcane, divine & psionic access. But let's focus on attaining Thanos' powers.

As posted before, but now with comparative aligning:
* Super-Strength: At a natural state he has a strength of 40 which is stronger than a Balor, a Pit Fiend & a Solar, and puts him in direct competition with a couple of Great Wyrms. So in the world of D&D he's strong. But through divine spells like Divine Power (+6) you can continue to up his might.
-- Highly skilled combatant: While his base BaB of +9 is nothing amazing he'll have access to Divine Power which immediately puts him in a nice spot. With that & the Paragon template you can easily be looking at +62 to his attacks. So with that and your powers/spells he'll be fine here.
* Super-Intelligence: With an Int of 40 he's out-smarting a great deal of creatures including heavy hitters like Balors, Pit Fiends and Solars. With a single skill point in any knowledge skill he can immediately answer hard questions (and higher when rolling).
* Super-Dexterity: His Dex score of 31 isn't crazy high but is still very good for some one as large as him.
-- Super Agility, Reflexes & Speed: Reflexes-wise he'll have around a +27 bonus which should cover his bases (although spells/powers/items can always assist). His speed is 90 ft. per round, so at fifteen feet a second he is quick by any standard. Agility-wise his Dex of 31 is nice support and a casting of Divine Agility only improves upon it.
* Extreme-Endurance: He should be looking at an average of 596 hit points and through spells/powers he can have enough buffs to make himself shrug through any encounter.
* Super-Durability: With an average of 596 hit points and access to some of the best buff spells/powers he will simply be untouchable (as is typical for a high-level caster).
* Energy Absorption/Manipulation: If room is open at 1st-level, and I don't imagine why it wouldn't be, picking up Spellfire Wielder from Magic of Faerun is a great feat that does a great job of mimicking this ability. Spells are cast at you and only fuel your ability to heal or hurt.
* Immortality: This is easily covered with spells (like Steal Life from BoVD), or taking Webbed to History as a 1st-level feat.
-- Regenerative/Accelerated Healing Factor: While this build doesn't have any active regeneration ability it does possess Fast Healing 20, which is pretty impressive. Anything beyond that can be covered through spells/powers.
* Psionics: He's an 18th-level Erudite, he's got this covered.
-- Telepathy: He doesn't have this is a straight-up ability he can mimic it through different psionic powers.
-- Psionic Resistance: He has Power Resistance of 30 and Spell Resistance of 63, he should be good here.
-- Offensive Psionic Projections: A lot of different powers can cover all of his psionic tricks/talents.

So what do you think?



It's....beautiful.

[lorddrake]

I mean, really, he basically is a level 20 or Epic wizard with some SERIOUS loot.

In my game he was a sorcerer (sorcerer supreme?) 20 - and some SERIOUS loot, as you've said.


Iceman? He could, theoretically, end the game right there, if it wasn't for the broken healing factors. Just throw them into absolute zero, since his power is basically limitless, problem solved unless Doctor Plot Device prepped Cold Immunity.

Yes, I didn't absolute-zero'd them for dying no-save is no-fun. :smalltongue:


The rest of them, beyond Thanos, are weak enough not to matter, and Thanos would only be dangerous if he got the Gauntlet. Otherwise, he's basically a mid-level wizard with high strength(And some serious WBL).

He didn't have the gauntlet, but had three gems.

[Little Brother]

I'm going to say that the best you can do is make a Thanos inspired build, not Thanos himself.

Thanos himself is far too powerful to realistically and easily recreate in Dungeons and Dragons (without overshooting his actual ability through some PunPun build) because of his massively varied and high scale power set:

Through sheer physical strength he's capable of destroying planets as collateral damage. He is strong enough to stalemate/beat Classic Drax the Destroyer, manhandle Thor and The Thing in a 2 v 1 and visibly stun Drax and Professor Hulk with a single back hand.To quote Adam Savage, "Well there's your problem." Professor Hulk is honestly pretty weak as Marvel supers go. Green Scar or Savage would be impressive, but Professor really isn't that impressive

He is a mage on par with a non-jobbering, non-classic Doctor StrangeAdmittedly, I haven't read the whole Thanos arc in ages, but source? Doctor Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme which, by definition, means he's the strongest sorcerer in this particular universe, does it not?

He is a psychic comparable to Moondragon with the Mind Gem (I think, might be her without it, been a while since I read any Moondragon) who makes a near global psychic like Professor Xavier look like a joke.What Professor X? I mean, Professor X is pretty inconsistent in power levels throughout the comics. At one point he can shut down people's brains, spawn Onslaught, and could probably brainwash the whole world if he cared to.

@Little: Ok, that post is full of things that are wrong and things that are insulting:

First off, Professor Hulk's base stats were greater than any incarnation of the Hulk till that point, even Savage Hulk. What made Professor Hulk weaker in the long run was the fact he didn't possess the Rage Factor.I apologize. May I inquire what was insulting? It was not my intent to insult anyone.
Either way, theExactly my point. A sufficiently pissed off Hulk can kill anything. Professor doesm't gets sufficiently pissed off.

Second off, Thanos would murder Green Scar. His power set is far too massive and varied to be beaten by someone who's a Brick with a Healing Factor. He could just sit comfortably behind his force field and do a multi-pronged assault on the Hulk's mind and body while draining off his Gamma energy.The Hulk has(Depending on the Writer, which really does screw up discussions involving long-running characters, doesn't it?), resistance to mind-controlly-stuffs, and, worst comes to worst, he can punch through time.

Remember that level 1000 monk versus level 20 wizard thread? I don't think Thanos is a really high-level wizard. He doesn't do enough different things. A sorcerer, maybe, but not a wizard. The only way the wizard could consistently win was through a couple of rather situational spells that a sorcerer probably wouldn't learn.

Now, Green Scar would do the best against Thanos of any Hulk incarnartion (aside from the overhyped "Gamma Father" Hulk) but he'd still get beat soundly.If someone is strong enough to JUMP faster than light/Punch through time/otherwise take Physic's lunch money then give it a swirly(Or whatever that thingy with the toilet is called) through sheer brute strength, I don't think shields are going to do much good. I mean, non-Green Scar held up a 150,000,000,000 ton mountain by himself, with no assistance, was the only thing to break Onslaught's armor, the first thing to really injure it. Under most circumstances, I'd wholly agree that a brick can't beat something like Thanos, but when said brick has stats that high, I think it might even be able to beat Squirrel Girl. And there is no way Thanos could beat Squirrel Girl :smalltongue:.

EDIT:
In my game he was a sorcerer (sorcerer supreme?) 20 - and some SERIOUS loot, as you've said.He should be Wizard. Despite the name Sorcerer Supreme, he functions more like a Wizard. Strange, huh?:smalltongue:

Yes, I didn't absolute-zero'd them for dying no-save is no-fun. :smalltongue:Well, immunity to cold should save them...

He didn't have the gauntlet, but had three gems.Meh. Close enough. Half of the reality-breaking artifact is still half of the reality-breaking artifact. The gear is what I'd be worried about.

[Tanuki Tales]

To quote Adam Savage, "Well there's your problem." Professor Hulk is honestly pretty weak as Marvel supers go. Green Scar or Savage would be impressive, but Professor really isn't that impressive

Erm, yes he is. Aside from the Hulk from Hulk: The End and Maestro, Professor Hulk has the best Healing Factor feats amongst all of the Hulk incarnations and some of the best strength feats (like destroying secondary adamantium with more ease than most Hulks in Future Imperfect. You're seriously selling Professor Hulk short just because he can't ramp up through the fight as easily as other Hulks can.


Admittedly, I haven't read the whole Thanos arc in ages, but source? Doctor Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme which, by definition, means he's the strongest sorcerer in this particular universe, does it not?

Let me go digging and I'll find you some scans. The first thing I'll point out though is that through genetic engineering Thanos made a clone of himself who was a pure mage who was stronger than Strange by word but not by feat. And since you can't genetic engineer magic to that degree you would have to infer that Thanos is a competent caster alone to create such a clone.

But Doctor Strange is really tricky grounds, as is the Sorcerer Supreme. Apparently, while the title holder is supposed to be the defender for his entire dimension, the candidates are generally exclusively people from Earth and of a certain disposition. There have been plenty of characters over the years who were flat out more powerful magic users than Strange (non-classic), like Doctor Doom, but were passed over for the title or weren't eligible to begin with.

And these days, Strange is pretty useless anyways.


What Professor X? I mean, Professor X is pretty inconsistent in power levels throughout the comics. At one point he can shut down people's brains, spawn Onslaught, and could probably brainwash the whole world if he cared to.

Professor X's average power, without jobbering or PIS, is supposed to be on that Global Level. Moondragon is a more powerful psychic and Thanos has beaten her handily in mental combat before. I know it's a little ABC logic, but it is what it is.


I apologize. May I inquire what was insulting? It was not my intent to insult anyone.

I meant insulting as a fan, not a personal insult. And the insult was you saying Green Scar would easily win, the Professor X would curbstomp, and that Thanos is only a threat with a plot device. I'm a serious Hulk fan and was an X-fan at one time, but that just honestly stinks of fan bias or misinformation. It's like when people say DBZ characters could speedblitz Post-Crisis Superman.



Either way, theExactly my point. A sufficiently pissed off Hulk can kill anything. Professor doesm't gets sufficiently pissed off.

There's a difference between "Most incarnations of the Hulk will eventually outstrip Professor Hulk in Strength and Durability" and "Professor Hulk is the most useless incarnation".

And there are a plethora of characters Hulk would lose to. Anyone Skyfather or higher kick his ass without breaking a sweat. Just look at the beatdown Zeus gave him.


The Hulk has(Depending on the Writer, which really does screw up discussions involving long-running characters, doesn't it?), resistance to mind-controlly-stuffs, and, worst comes to worst, he can punch through time.

Yes, I'm fully aware of Hulk's long standing career of awesome. But that's still nothing compared to anything a Herald level being is routinely capable of. I'm not selling Hulk short, I think you're just selling him far too high.


Remember that level 1000 monk versus level 20 wizard thread? I don't think Thanos is a really high-level wizard. He doesn't do enough different things. A sorcerer, maybe, but not a wizard. The only way the wizard could consistently win was through a couple of rather situational spells that a sorcerer probably wouldn't learn.

Thanos powerset, along with his standard tech, more then would allow him to defeat practically any incarnation of The Hulk. Please tell me what any Hulk is capable of that Champion and Warrior Madness Thor, both with the Power Gem, can not do?


If someone is strong enough to JUMP faster than light
He can't. At all. I would like to see you provide a source for this.


/Punch through time
A high end feat that Hulk has never replicated. And a feat no Hulk debaters have ever used in my experience because of that fact.


/otherwise take Physic's lunch money then give it a swirly

And those are either like the time feat or had context not in a normal fight.


through sheer brute strength, I don't think shields are going to do much good.

Shields that have withstood Galactus blasts and blows from Champion with the Power Gem. Both things Hulk can't even match or beat unless he's been angry for a good amount of time.


I mean, non-Green Scar held up a 150,000,000,000 ton mountain by himself, with no assistance,

That's not true. While yes, it was a Banner Hulk (who is usually one of his weaker incarnations) he did hold it by leverage and did require further aggravation to keep this up. And even then, he couldn't hold it indefinitely. A good feat none the less, but not as you tote it.


was the only thing to break Onslaught's armor

While impressive, there was context to this. He did have every emotion but rage shut off and funneled into his brain by some of Marvel's most powerful psychics on scene. .


Under most circumstances, I'd wholly agree that a brick can't beat something like Thanos, but when said brick has stats that high, I think it might even be able to beat Squirrel Girl. And there is no way Thanos could beat Squirrel Girl :smalltongue:.

See, you lose for even jokingly saying that. :smalltongue:

Besides, that was a clone.

[Little Brother]

Erm, yes he is. Aside from the Hulk from Hulk: The End and Maestro, Professor Hulk has the best Healing Factor feats amongst all of the Hulk incarnations and some of the best strength feats (like destroying secondary adamantium with more ease than most Hulks in Future Imperfect. You're seriously selling Professor Hulk short just because he can't ramp up through the fight as easily as other Hulks can.I don't think I'm selling him short, I just think that, when we're talking at this level, being able to ramp up like that is really that important.

Let me go digging and I'll find you some scans. The first thing I'll point out though is that through genetic engineering Thanos made a clone of himself who was a pure mage who was stronger than Strange by word but not by feat. And since you can't genetic engineer magic to that degree you would have to infer that Thanos is a competent caster alone to create such a clone. I can follow that he's a competent caster, and do not argue that. Anywhere near the level of Strange? Not buying it.

But Doctor Strange is really tricky grounds, as is the Sorcerer Supreme. Apparently, while the title holder is supposed to be the defender for his entire dimension, the candidates are generally exclusively people from Earth and of a certain disposition. There have been plenty of characters over the years who were flat out more powerful magic users than Strange (non-classic), like Doctor Doom, but were passed over for the title or weren't eligible to begin with.

And these days, Strange is pretty useless anyways.I apologize, I'm not used to talking about comics on the internet. Can you define jobbering, PIS, and non-classic.

Doctor Doom was more powerful than Strange? I don't think so.

Professor X's average power, without jobbering or PIS, is supposed to be on that Global Level. Moondragon is a more powerful psychic and Thanos has beaten her handily in mental combat before. I know it's a little ABC logic, but it is what it is.Again, I am afraid I am unfamiliar with the word "Jobbering."

Fair enough ABC. I would like to point out, though, for the record, Professor X made Onslaught, and there is NO way Onslaught is not vastly more powerful than Thanos(And looks way cooler).

I meant insulting as a fan, not a personal insult. And the insult was you saying Green Scar would easily win, the Professor X would curbstomp, and that Thanos is only a threat with a plot device. I'm a serious Hulk fan and was an X-fan at one time, but that just honestly stinks of fan bias or misinformation. It's like when people say DBZ characters could speedblitz Post-Crisis Superman.Oh. I misstated my position, sorry. Green Scar wouldn't EASILY win. He'd win, without a doubt IMO. Also, unconscious=no save, does Thanos sleep? If so, X could kill him then with the brain-wipe thingy.

And, come on, any GT-era DBZ character could crush Superman. I mean, they could probably go toe-to-toe with Tengen Toppa Guren Lagann.

There's a difference between "Most incarnations of the Hulk will eventually outstrip Professor Hulk in Strength and Durability" and "Professor Hulk is the most useless incarnation". Agreed. Base strength is useful, in most cases. At this level, potential is more powerful. Who can get higher. Sorta almost like the Blue Lanterns.

And there are a plethora of characters Hulk would lose to. Anyone Skyfather or higher kick his ass without breaking a sweat. Just look at the beatdown Zeus gave him.Oh, crap. Forgot about that. In his defense, none of the others could do it, IIRC. AFCB right now, though

Yes, I'm fully aware of Hulk's long standing career of awesome. But that's still nothing compared to anything a Herald level being is routinely capable of. I'm not selling Hulk short, I think you're just selling him far too high.In my defense, I really cannot stop thinking about punching through time.

Thanos powerset, along with his standard tech, more then would allow him to defeat practically any incarnation of The Hulk. Please tell me what any Hulk is capable of that Champion and Warrior Madness Thor, both with the Power Gem, can not do?Uh... Beyond the bizarre, one-off bad physics moments?

He can't. At all. I would like to see you provide a source for this.Simple. Red Hulk did when fighting Thor. Hulk beat Red Hulk. Therefore, Hulk is stronger than Rulk. Therefore, hulk can do it just as well or better.

A high end feat that Hulk has never replicated. And a feat no Hulk debaters have ever used in my experience because of that fact.

And those are either like the time feat or had context not in a normal fight.Yes, but they are so bizarre they are worth mentioning.

Shields that have withstood Galactus blasts and blows from Champion with the Power Gem. Both things Hulk can't even match or beat unless he's been angry for a good amount of time.So? All the good guys need to do is give the hulk a VERY bad day, then throw him at Thanos. Problem solved.

We're looking at this from different perspectives, from what I can see. The Hulk's strength has been specifically stated as limitless. Therefore, the Hulk is totally capable of being strong enough to crush Thanos.

That's not true. While yes, it was a Banner Hulk (who is usually one of his weaker incarnations) he did hold it by leverage and did require further aggravation to keep this up. And even then, he couldn't hold it indefinitely. A good feat none the less, but not as you tote it.Wow, I really do need to go back and reread those. I've just been so busy with a bunch of new X-Men comics and a Song of Ice and Fire. I cannot believe I'm being this derpy.

While impressive, there was context to this. He did have every emotion but rage shut off and funneled into his brain by some of Marvel's most powerful psychics on scene. .And? Onslaught is probably the single most powerful thing to show up in the Marvel universe(s). And the maimed him.

I think you're selling the the Hulk short.

[Tanuki Tales]

I don't think I'm selling him short, I just think that, when we're talking at this level, being able to ramp up like that is really that important.

Yes, it is important when going up against someone of equal or superior strength. But the point is that Professor Hulk's base stats are significantly higher than any other Hulk aside from Green Scar so you shouldn't write off Thanos outmuscling him.


I can follow that he's a competent caster, and do not argue that. Anywhere near the level of Strange? Not buying it.

I'll find some scans.


I apologize, I'm not used to talking about comics on the internet. Can you define jobbering, PIS, and non-classic.

Jobbering = The act of a comic character losing to someone they shouldn't for the sake of the story or the sake of making the other character look good. Something like the Worf Effect trope.

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity. This is when a character acts out of character or is weaker than they normally should be just for the sake of the story's plot. PIS feats and events are ignored in actual comic debates or discussions as rule of thumb. A good example of PIS is the Deathstroke/JLA fight from Identity Crisis.

CIS = Character Induced Stupidity. This is when a character is weaker than they actually are because of their personality and active choices. Such as Superman or Spider-man always holding back, Batman not killing, etc. This is valid and assumed on during discussions unless mentioned otherwise.

Classic = This term usually refers to a character during their first appearance or their initial tenure as a character. In Doctor Strange's case, this was back when he was insanely powerful and probably could solo Earth's Pantheons.


Doctor Doom was more powerful than Strange? I don't think so.

He is. Doctor Doom has shown on a few occasions that he is Strange's equal and potentially his superior in magic, especially since he tends to combine science with it as well.


Again, I am afraid I am unfamiliar with the word "Jobbering."

Fair enough ABC. I would like to point out, though, for the record, Professor X made Onslaught, and there is NO way Onslaught is not vastly more powerful than Thanos(And looks way cooler).

Let me refresh myself on Onslaught. But in the mean time, only Onslaught with Franklin Richards and Nate Grey would be more powerful than Thanos (and even then, Thanos puts Reed Richards to shame when it comes to prep time dickery). Base Onslaught, who only had the combined powers of Xavier and Magneto would lose.


Oh. I misstated my position, sorry. Green Scar wouldn't EASILY win. He'd win, without a doubt IMO. Also, unconscious=no save, does Thanos sleep? If so, X could kill him then with the brain-wipe thingy.

Thanos is an incredibly more powerful telepath than Xavier. It's not like Thanos is The Juggernaut sans Helmet. As for needing to sleep, I don't believe he does.


And, come on, any GT-era DBZ character could crush Superman. I mean, they could probably go toe-to-toe with Tengen Toppa Guren Lagann.

1. GT is officially non-canon since the release of DBO.

2. SSJ4 Gogeta, the supposed most powerful character in GT, had trouble lifting a skyscraper.

That's all I'll say.



Agreed. Base strength is useful, in most cases. At this level, potential is more powerful. Who can get higher. Sorta almost like the Blue Lanterns.

Addressed this bit already.


Oh, crap. Forgot about that. In his defense, none of the others could do it, IIRC. AFCB right now, though

Anyone of Skyfather or higher could replicate the beat down Zeus gave Hulk. Thanos on the other hand fared MUCH better when Odin gave him a similar energy beat down. He tanked it and refused to go down.


In my defense, I really cannot stop thinking about punching through time.

Noted. :smalltongue:


Uh... Beyond the bizarre, one-off bad physics moments?

Yes, beyond things that could be written off or could be replicated with the Power Gem if the writer really wanted to give crazy feats like those.


Simple. Red Hulk did when fighting Thor. Hulk beat Red Hulk. Therefore, Hulk is stronger than Rulk. Therefore, hulk can do it just as well or better.

Ok. Full stop.

Red Hulk's power set and the fact Jeph Loeb wrote that puts a ton of context into all of that. Red Hulk has base physical scores (except durability, his durability is terrible) comparable to somewhere between Savage and Green Scar base stats. He doesn't get stronger the angrier he gets, no, but he does absorb energy to boost his physical ability (a trick Silver Surfer and Thanos can do better). Red Hulk was riding on both his own power, power drained from Hulk and some drained from Uatua the Watcher when he fought Thor. Then add in anything he drained from Thor's own power and the Odin Force.

The next time Red Hulk fought Hulk he didn't have any of that going for him and did overheat.

Red Hulk is a weird character who has yet to be written right (Loeb overblew him massively and since then he's been written pretty useless for a Hulk character).

None of that proves your lightspeed comment though.


Yes, but they are so bizarre they are worth mentioning.

Not as credible evidence to support the Hulk in a fight. Chances are high they'd either be written off as a one-time thing or PIS. Average showings define a character.


So? All the good guys need to do is give the hulk a VERY bad day, then throw him at Thanos. Problem solved.

So you're affording Hulk significant prep-time and outside help against a Thanos with his pants down? Alright, you can if you want. Thanos still survived a black hole relatively undamaged when his pants were down and he definitely has the durability to either turn the fight around or lead to a stalemate/pyrrhic victory.

Thanos would lose if you continually stack the deck in Hulk's favor to the degree that Thanos can't win in a random encounter for him.


We're looking at this from different perspectives, from what I can see. The Hulk's strength has been specifically stated as limitless. Therefore, the Hulk is totally capable of being strong enough to crush Thanos.

I never stated otherwise. What you're failing to account is that it takes time and motivation for Hulk to reach those levels. Thanos is never going to give him that luxury.

It's a similar argument to: "Well, Goku would just use the Spirit Bomb and win!"


Wow, I really do need to go back and reread those. I've just been so busy with a bunch of new X-Men comics and a Song of Ice and Fire. I cannot believe I'm being this derpy.

It's cool. With how huge and unmanaged Marvel's continuity is (unlike DC's) it's easy to forget things.


And? Onslaught is probably the single most powerful thing to show up in the Marvel universe(s). And the maimed him.

No and No.

Onslaught, at his peak, had the combined power of Charles Xavier, Max Eisenhardt, Nathan Grey Summers and Franklin Richards. Franklin is the biggest gun of the bunch and he's explicitly only comparable to a Celestial in terms of power and that's only if he's at his full grown potential. There are many characters more powerful than that.

And you've forgotten where the whole thing was just a ploy. Onslaught knew the heroes would eventually shatter his physical shell, he didn't build it to be invulnerable. He built it to distract them long enough to allow his incorporeal psionic form to fully evolve and Reed Richards even points this out on panel.


I think you're selling the the Hulk short.

No, I'm selling the Hulk realistically based upon the average showing of his power.

Current Hulk has shown he can damage or destroy a planet through sheer physical force with his World Breaker mode. But the fact is that Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Thanos, Drax, etc. have been doing that stuff for years.



Edit:

We should probably stop this here before derailing the thread more and discuss over PMs how we're going to go about making a thread for this in the media subforum.

[Karoht]

Now, a more important question: How would the Infinity Gauntlet work in 3.5?
Infinity Gauntlet = Pun Pun's Gauntlet of Happy Happy Fun Times. Except all of his abilities now have a range of 'the universe'

Just guessing mind you.

[Bharg]

Love how you are defending Thanos' honor, Troll Brau.

Seems like most people are seriously overrestimating what a level 20 character can actually do.

[ThiagoMartell]

Slightly off-topic - I object to saying Thanos could beat the Hulk. He did, but that was "Professor" Hulk, and . The merged Hulk is weak compared to most of the other Hulks(I believe his strength was comparable to "Joe Fixit," that one grey Hulk, though I may be misremembering). He's still got the pushover elements of Banner's personality. Mindless Hulk injured Onslaught, and probably could have beaten him if he'd lasted a little longer. Green Scar could totally beat Thanos. Remember, the Hulk's strength and healing factor are limitless. He can JUMP faster than light as Green Scar.
/hulkfan
I'm a Hulk fan as well, but the Hulk is nowhere NEAR Thanos' league.
Professor Hulk is officially stated to be as strong as the Savage Hulk before anger boosts.
Green Scar took down a skrull Black Bolt and exhausted everything he had to beat The Sentry. That's the most impressive feats he has under his belt.
Thanos defeated freaking Galactus.


Thanos is only really super dangerous when he has the Gauntlet. Anyone is. I could get the Gauntlet and rule the universe.
Annihilation and Thanos Imperative says hi.


Professor X could kill Thanos easily. Wipe his brain like he did Magneto's. Or remake Onslaught if worst came to worst./Thanoshater
Thanos > Onslaught.
Thanos has telepathic defenses. He fights Moondragon regularly. She is a cosmic level telepath.


And, come on, any GT-era DBZ character could crush Superman. I mean, they could probably go toe-to-toe with Tengen Toppa Guren Lagann.
You know nothing, Jon Snow Little Brother.
Pre-Crisis Superman destroyed a galaxy with a sneeze.



Love how you are defending Thanos' honor, Troll Brau.

Seems like most people are seriously overrestimating what a level 20 character can actually do.
Well, I think you're seriously underestimating what an Artificer 20 can do (which is: whatever he wants). :smalltongue:

[Tanuki Tales]

Love how you are defending Thanos' honor, Troll Brau.

Seems like most people are seriously overrestimating what a level 20 character can actually do.

Thanks.


But seriously guys, let's take this somewhere else. This thread is turning more into "Hulk vs. Thanos" and less "How do we make a Thanos inspired DnD character?"

And yes, aim for inspired, you can't easily make Herald+ tier characters in DnD stats.

[ThiagoMartell]

And yes, aim for inspired, you can't easily make Herald+ tier characters in DnD stats.

Agree completely.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I just want to add, since we are now moving away from that discussion, that on top of Zonugal's pants-wettingly awesome Thanos build, I found the feats I was talking about with my Hulk: Pain Mastery and Involuntary Rage.

I found them both on Zonugal's E6 Hulk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13203367&postcount=11).

So Zonugal wins the thread, twice.

[Little Brother]

Troll:Okay, fair enough. We can move this. Do you want the honors of starting it, or should I?

I just want to add, since we are now moving away from that discussion, that on top of Zonugal's pants-wettingly awesome Thanos build, I found the feats I was talking about with my Hulk: Pain Mastery and Involuntary Rage.

I found them both on Zonugal's E6 Hulk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13203367&postcount=11).

So Zonugal wins the thread, twice.Oh gods, yes. That is brilliant.

[Zonugal]

Dear lord, my ears are burning. Thanks Arcanist, Little Brother, Krazzman, Man on Fire, & Lonely Tylenol.

Now, let's continue...


Alright so we have the build and shape of the character now all we need is the fluff feats :smallamused:

Well I think, if we are still using Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9 as a build, that perhaps this might be okay?

Spellfire Wielder [1st], Spell Focus (Evil) [Flaw], Craft Universal Item [3rd], Iron Will [6th], Extend Spell [9th], Persistent Spell [12th], Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) [15th] and Craft Wondrous Item [18th].

It's a bit mushed but it picks up all the required feats for the build to function in addition to providing the abilities for Thanos to persist a few divine spells (He should have around 14 turn attempts per day) and to build any magic/psionic item he may need in the future (he's limited to wondrous & universal items but those are the most versatile so...?).


Now, a more important question: How would the Infinity Gauntlet work in 3.5?

The Infinity Gauntlet, without a doubt, is an artifact item. It is an epic artifact among other artifacts, so beware because this next section is pure home-brew...

So not only is the Infinity Gauntlet an artifact but so is each individual infinity gem placed within the gauntlet. Each has its own powers and when combined create an amazing effect.

* Soul: At its base form it grants the user every benefit of the undead subtype without actually possessing it as well as being able to use any spell/power that is part of the healing or necromancy school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Life & Death salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#lifeAndDeath)
* Time: At its base form it grants its user immortality and the ability to use Mass Time Hop, Teleport Through Time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b), Temporal Acceleration, Time Hop, Time Regression or Time Stop as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Divine Recall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineRecall) and Know Death divine salient abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowDeath).
* Space: At its base form it grants the user the ability to use any spell/power that is part of the calling, creating, metacreativity, psychoportation, summoning or teleporting school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Call Creatures (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#callCreatures) & Create Object salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineCreation).
* Mind: At its base form it grants its user unlimited-distance telepathy (planar & beyond) and the ability to use Hypercognition or Metafaculty as a free action once per turn as a PLA (ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Know Secrets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowSecrets) & True Knowledge salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#trueKnowledge).
* Reality: At its base form it allows its user to use Genesis, Miracle, Reality Revision, or Wish as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Alter Reality salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterReality).
* Power: At its base form it provides an upgrade to every ability the user may possess. Caster levels and manifester levels are immediately increased by fifteen levels and the DC for any special ability is increased by +20.

When combined they perform such an act...

The Infinity Gauntlet (with all gems): When in possession of all the Infinity Gems this mystical & all powerful gauntlet transforms its user into raw divinity. The wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet immediately receives 16 divine ranks and everything else that comes with an immediate ascendance.

[Arcanist]

Dear lord, my ears are burning. Thanks Arcanist, Little Brother, Krazzman, Man on Fire, & Lonely Tylenol.

Now, let's continue...



Well I think, if we are still using Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9 as a build, that perhaps this might be okay?

Spellfire Wielder [1st], Spell Focus (Evil) [Flaw], Craft Universal Item [3rd], Iron Will [6th], Extend Spell [9th], Persistent Spell [12th], Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) [15th] and Craft Wondrous Item [18th].

It's a bit mushed but it picks up all the required feats for the build to function in addition to providing the abilities for Thanos to persist a few divine spells (He should have around 14 turn attempts per day) and to build any magic/psionic item he may need in the future (he's limited to wondrous & universal items but those are the most versatile so...?).



The Infinity Gauntlet, without a doubt, is an artifact item. It is an epic artifact among other artifacts, so beware because this next section is pure home-brew...

So not only is the Infinity Gauntlet an artifact but so is each individual infinity gem placed within the gauntlet. Each has its own powers and when combined create an amazing effect.

* Soul: At its base form it grants the user every benefit of the undead subtype without actually possessing it as well as being able to use any spell/power that is part of the healing or necromancy school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Life & Death salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#lifeAndDeath)
* Time: At its base form it grants its user immortality and the ability to use Mass Time Hop, Teleport Through Time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b), Temporal Acceleration, Time Hop, Time Regression or Time Stop as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Divine Recall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineRecall) and Know Death divine salient abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowDeath).
* Space: At its base form it grants the user the ability to use any spell/power that is part of the calling, creating, metacreativity, ssychoportation, summoning or teleporting school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Call Creatures (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#callCreatures) & Create Object salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineCreation).
* Mind: At its base form it grants its user unlimited-distance telepathy (planar & beyond) and the ability to use Hypercognition or Metafaculty as a free action once per turn as a PLA (ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Know Secrets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowSecrets) & True Knowledge salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#trueKnowledge).
* Reality: At its base form it allows its user to use Genesis, Miracle Reality Revision, or Wish as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Alter Reality salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterReality).
* Power: At its base form it provides an upgrade to every ability the user may possess. Caster levels and manifester levels are immediately increased by fifteen levels and the DC for any special ability is increased by +20.

When combined they perform such an act...

The Infinity Gauntlet (with all gems): When in possession of all the Infinity Gems this mystical & all powerful gauntlet transforms its user into raw divinity. The wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet immediately receives 16 divine ranks and everything else that comes with an immediate ascendance.

...Wow... The Infinity Gauntlet is... How you kill a god :smallamused:

[Little Brother]

Dear lord, my ears are burning. Thanks Arcanist, Little Brother, Krazzman, Man on Fire, & Lonely Tylenol.

Now, let's continue...



Well I think, if we are still using Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9 as a build, that perhaps this might be okay?

Spellfire Wielder [1st], Spell Focus (Evil) [Flaw], Craft Universal Item [3rd], Iron Will [6th], Extend Spell [9th], Persistent Spell [12th], Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) [15th] and Craft Wondrous Item [18th].

It's a bit mushed but it picks up all the required feats for the build to function in addition to providing the abilities for Thanos to persist a few divine spells (He should have around 14 turn attempts per day) and to build any magic/psionic item he may need in the future (he's limited to wondrous & universal items but those are the most versatile so...?).



The Infinity Gauntlet, without a doubt, is an artifact item. It is an epic artifact among other artifacts, so beware because this next section is pure home-brew...

So not only is the Infinity Gauntlet an artifact but so is each individual infinity gem placed within the gauntlet. Each has its own powers and when combined create an amazing effect.

* Soul: At its base form it grants the user every benefit of the undead subtype without actually possessing it as well as being able to use any spell/power that is part of the healing or necromancy school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Life & Death salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#lifeAndDeath)
* Time: At its base form it grants its user immortality and the ability to use Mass Time Hop, Teleport Through Time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b), Temporal Acceleration, Time Hop, Time Regression or Time Stop as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Divine Recall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineRecall) and Know Death divine salient abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowDeath).
* Space: At its base form it grants the user the ability to use any spell/power that is part of the calling, creating, metacreativity, psychoportation, summoning or teleporting school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Call Creatures (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#callCreatures) & Create Object salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineCreation).
* Mind: At its base form it grants its user unlimited-distance telepathy (planar & beyond) and the ability to use Hypercognition or Metafaculty as a free action once per turn as a PLA (ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Know Secrets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowSecrets) & True Knowledge salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#trueKnowledge).
* Reality: At its base form it allows its user to use Genesis, Miracle, Reality Revision, or Wish as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Alter Reality salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterReality).
* Power: At its base form it provides an upgrade to every ability the user may possess. Caster levels and manifester levels are immediately increased by fifteen levels and the DC for any special ability is increased by +20.

When combined they perform such an act...

The Infinity Gauntlet (with all gems): When in possession of all the Infinity Gems this mystical & all powerful gauntlet transforms its user into raw divinity. The wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet immediately receives 16 divine ranks and everything else that comes with an immediate ascendance.That looks about perfect.

I hereby vote to give Zonugal 50 interwebz for his feats of epic D&D-fu and sheer wininess. Any seconds?

[Bharg]

I thought the Infinity Gauntlet would bascially turn you into something like Ao or something even more powerful seeing how small the D&D worlds usually are.

Also is there a reason you avoid using epic levels. Thanos is pretty famous after all.

[ThiagoMartell]

Wow, Zonugal, awesome run of the gems, congrats.
I only think the Power Gem should also give a big bonus to ability scores. Recently, Red Hulk got the power gem... and it was awesome. :smallwink:

[Man on Fire]

Dear lord, my ears are burning. Thanks Arcanist, Little Brother, Krazzman, Man on Fire, & Lonely Tylenol.

Now, let's continue...



Well I think, if we are still using Paragon, Phrenic Goliath Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 9 as a build, that perhaps this might be okay?

Spellfire Wielder [1st], Spell Focus (Evil) [Flaw], Craft Universal Item [3rd], Iron Will [6th], Extend Spell [9th], Persistent Spell [12th], Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) [15th] and Craft Wondrous Item [18th].

It's a bit mushed but it picks up all the required feats for the build to function in addition to providing the abilities for Thanos to persist a few divine spells (He should have around 14 turn attempts per day) and to build any magic/psionic item he may need in the future (he's limited to wondrous & universal items but those are the most versatile so...?).



The Infinity Gauntlet, without a doubt, is an artifact item. It is an epic artifact among other artifacts, so beware because this next section is pure home-brew...

So not only is the Infinity Gauntlet an artifact but so is each individual infinity gem placed within the gauntlet. Each has its own powers and when combined create an amazing effect.

* Soul: At its base form it grants the user every benefit of the undead subtype without actually possessing it as well as being able to use any spell/power that is part of the healing or necromancy school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Life & Death salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#lifeAndDeath)
* Time: At its base form it grants its user immortality and the ability to use Mass Time Hop, Teleport Through Time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b), Temporal Acceleration, Time Hop, Time Regression or Time Stop as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Divine Recall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineRecall) and Know Death divine salient abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowDeath).
* Space: At its base form it grants the user the ability to use any spell/power that is part of the calling, creating, metacreativity, psychoportation, summoning or teleporting school (or subschool) (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Call Creatures (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#callCreatures) & Create Object salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineCreation).
* Mind: At its base form it grants its user unlimited-distance telepathy (planar & beyond) and the ability to use Hypercognition or Metafaculty as a free action once per turn as a PLA (ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Know Secrets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knowSecrets) & True Knowledge salient divine abilities (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#trueKnowledge).
* Reality: At its base form it allows its user to use Genesis, Miracle, Reality Revision, or Wish as a full-action once per turn as a SLA/PLA (CL 20/ML 20). When used in connection to the Power gem it grants its user the Alter Reality salient divine ability (Divine Rank 10) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterReality).
* Power: At its base form it provides an upgrade to every ability the user may possess. Caster levels and manifester levels are immediately increased by fifteen levels and the DC for any special ability is increased by +20.

When combined they perform such an act...

The Infinity Gauntlet (with all gems): When in possession of all the Infinity Gems this mystical & all powerful gauntlet transforms its user into raw divinity. The wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet immediately receives 16 divine ranks and everything else that comes with an immediate ascendance.

Another excellent creation. I have, however, two questions. First, I don't know well any of abilities you gave Time Gem, does any of them allows to age somebody? Because I remember that Thanos got the Sace Gem by using Time Gem to turn it's owner into an old man. Second, I think that Power Gem should also increase in some way simple battle abilities, Chamption, guy Thanos stole it from, and other brawlers were using it to basically gain insane strength, constitution and dexterity (of course there is always Marvel Adventures version of that gem, which probably should give you manuvers, considering it did this (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ku4527k1Ba1qz5y5go1_500.jpg)).

[Zonugal]

I thought the Infinity Gauntlet would bascially turn you into something like Ao or something even more powerful seeing how small the D&D worlds usually are.

Also is there a reason you avoid using epic levels. Thanos is pretty famous after all.

I decided to have the Infinity Gauntlet bump up an individual to a greater deity (16 ranks+) as I felt, at least in comics, there is always a bigger fish per say. While he could have more divine ranks you need to leave room for a greater entity to knock him down.

Regarding not making Thanos epic? I just wanted to see what could be performed in non-epic levels. You'll hear no disagreement from me, he's certainly an epic character.


Wow, Zonugal, awesome run of the gems, congrats.
I only think the Power Gem should also give a big bonus to ability scores. Recently, Red Hulk got the power gem... and it was awesome. :smallwink:

What about an edit like this?

* Power: At its base form it provides an upgrade to every ability the user may possess. Caster levels and manifester levels are immediately increased by fifteen levels and the DC for any special ability is increased by +20. In addition it improves one ability score by ten points and grants its user the ability to use every maneuver & stance of one school from Tome of Battle (with a recovery style/system of a 20th-level Warblade). When used in connection with another gem the user is able to improve another ability score and learns the maneuvers/stances of another school (thus with all the gems together having a +10 bonus to every ability score and six out of the nine martial schools).




Another excellent creation. I have, however, two questions. First, I don't know well any of abilities you gave Time Gem, does any of them allows to age somebody? Because I remember that Thanos got the Sace Gem by using Time Gem to turn it's owner into an old man.

I don't know of any spell that robs an individual of their age/mortality, I'd be open if one could be presented.

As it is the Time gem allows one to teleport backwards in time (up to a thousand years or even more), teleport twenty hours ahead into the future, and stop time for a brief moment.


Second, I think that Power Gem should also increase in some way simple battle abilities, Chamption, guy Thanos stole it from, and other brawlers were using it to basically gain insane strength, constitution and dexterity (of course there is always Marvel Adventures version of that gem, which probably should give you manuvers, considering it did this (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ku4527k1Ba1qz5y5go1_500.jpg)).

Great points, I included them in the above edit/revision.

[Waker]

I don't know of any spell that robs an individual of their age/mortality, I'd be open if one could be presented.
Well, it isn't a spell per se but you could draw inspiration from the Time Dragon (Dragon 359). It had an aging breath attack that read "Creatures and objects within the cone age 1 year per age category (no save); creatures take 1 point of constitution damage and objects lose one point of hardness per age category (fortitude half)."

[Little Brother]

Spell from Dr354: Kissed by the Ages. Someone else has to cast it on you, you need a pretty ring, and you take some penalties if you lose said ring, but you don't age.

[Lapak]

I decided to have the Infinity Gauntlet bump up an individual to a greater deity (16 ranks+) as I felt, at least in comics, there is always a bigger fish per say. While he could have more divine ranks you need to leave room for a greater entity to knock him down. Yeah. On the one hand, Thanos didn't have any particular trouble taking down the anthropomorphic avatar of the Universe itself; on the other hand, it's very strongly suggested via the Living Tribunal that there *is* an Overgod type figure in the Marvel Universe that would have no particular difficulty in putting down a Gauntlet-empowered deity.

[Man on Fire]

Yeah. On the one hand, Thanos didn't have any particular trouble taking down the anthropomorphic avatar of the Universe itself; on the other hand, it's very strongly suggested via the Living Tribunal that there *is* an Overgod type figure in the Marvel Universe that would have no particular difficulty in putting down a Gauntlet-empowered deity.

Tribunal himself wouldn't have a problem, it required even stronger artifact to take him down.