Cleric question

[killianh]

Most times i see a cleric build that focuses on the casting side of things I always see the cloistered cleric variant used. I read it and the bonus spells and everything else it grants doesn't seem so useful as to make it into a prime choice for clerics.

Is there something about it I'm missing?

[Golden Ladybug]

An extra domain, skill points and Lore make up for losing Armor, because...well, who cares about Armor? :smalltongue:

[Telonius]

Here are the ways it's worse than the regular Cleric:
- d6 hitpoints, instead of d8.
- Poor BAB, instead of Medium.
- No Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Shield proficiency.


After the Cleric can cast Divine Power, BAB doesn't matter. The hitpoint loss isn't too bad; it's an average of 20hp difference at level 20. Armor is the only sticky point, but it's usually not enough of a bad point to offset all of the bonuses you get. (Skill points, lore, extra domain, new spells on your list).

[Downysole]

I've never gone the cloistered route, but it definitely makes a difference in terms of what you can do as a traditional battle cleric. And by that, I mean that you can't wear heavy armor, you have to get Mithril Medium armor, your shield has to be animated, and you make sure your persisted divine power won't be dispelled.

Avoiding that, it's pretty much the same but with extra know-how and spells plus the additional domain. And since an additional domain could mean more turns, which can be used to fuel DMM, well, just makes it easier to hit your build at high levels and get all your prerequisites for that Prestige Class you always wanted.

[Piggy Knowles]

Even if you're not planning on persisting Divine Power, one way to think of it is this:

Cloistered clerics essentially get Knowledge Devotion for free, if they don't plan to use the Knowledge domain. Knowledge Devotion is, at a bare minimum, worth at least +1 attack and +1 damage.

So, that means that, taking Knowledge Devotion into account with the minimum bonus, you have...

{table=head]Level|AB of regular cleric|AB of cloistered + Knowledge Devotion

1|+0|+1

2|+1|+2

3|+2|+2

4|+3|+3

5|+3|+3
[/table]

So, without even taking into account the bonus on damage, or the fact that you can get a higher bonus than the minimum, a cloistered cleric will always an equal or better attack bonus than a regular cleric, if you take Knowledge Devotion into account.

Of course, this starts fading as levels progress, but who takes more than five levels in cleric anyhow?

Armor proficiencies is, IMO, the much bigger loss... but those are easy to pick up with a prestige class, or you can just wear armor you aren't proficient in.

[Telonius]

Three PrCs that will give you armor at no loss of caster level: Radiant Servant of Pelor, Seeker of the Misty Isle, Prestige Paladin.

[TuggyNE]

your shield has to be animated

Er? Animated specifically doesn't change any penalties associated with wearing a shield.
A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency.

(It's still a good choice usually if you're gonna attacking with a weapon, because it allows two-handing or bow use.)

[Aegis013]

Them skill points are great for getting into Prestige Classes. I know when I make Clerics I usually have to carefully consider my skill point allocation since I will have so few of them. Less so for Cloistered.