The best 2-hander for medium size? (3.5)

[Ketiara]

Whats the best 2-hander out there for a medium sized person?

And with this I also mean with exotic weapons feat and without.

And if possible what's the best 2-hander hammer out there?

A friend of mine that's new to D&D just made a barbarian with a big maul or hammer thing (he is imagining it something like Thors hammer but with a long shaft).

[Rhaegar14]

Spiked Chain is far and away the best two-hander in 3.5 D&D. However, this is not a hammer. For that, I'd probably just go with a Warhammer (wielded two-handed) or Maul.

[Spiryt]

In 3.5 without some obscure sources, refflufing Heavy Flail would probably be easiest way to go for classic fantasy Hammer.

Or Bec de Corbin/Lucerne hammer borrowed from Pathfinder.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer, MMIV page 101. It deals 1d12 medium damage, and its natural threat/crit is 19-20/x4. It is an exotic weapon, but if you get the Impact property on it (Keen for bludgeoning weapons) or Improved Crit it goes up to 17-20/x4. Get your friendly party wizard to cast Greater Mighty Wallop on it (from Races of the Dragon) and its damage increases as though its size were increased, which can go up to colossal for 8d6 base weapon damage.

[Curmudgeon]

Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer, MMIV page 101. It deals 1d12 medium damage, and its natural threat/crit is 19-20/x4.
Actually, probably not. The problem is that weapon information is in a table with a single entry, and disagrees with the information in the Greathorn Minotaur stat block on the previous page.

Two lines from the Primary Sources Errata Rule:
One example of a primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry. ... A monster’s statistics block supersedes the descriptive text. The weapon in the stat block is just x4, not 19-20/x4.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Actually, probably not. The problem is that weapon information is in a table with a single entry, and disagrees with the information in the Greathorn Minotaur stat block on the previous page.

Two lines from the Primary Sources Errata Rule: The weapon in the stat block is just x4, not 19-20/x4.

The weapon's stats are in a completely separate section from the monster entry itself under the header, "For Player Characters," and should be counted as separate. From what I can tell, that hammer when wielded by a greathorn minotaur uses the stats given in the monster's stat block, but when wielded by a PC it uses the stats given in that section.

[Curmudgeon]

From what I can tell, that hammer when wielded by a greathorn minotaur uses the stats given in the monster's stat block, but when wielded by a PC it uses the stats given in that section.
A PC can be a Greathorn Minotaur; the race has a level adjustment. That means your statement contradicts itself.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A PC can be a Greathorn Minotaur; the race has a level adjustment. That means your statement contradicts itself.

The stats given for a typical greathorn minotuar appears to be lacking EWP. It doesn't look like it takes any nonproficiency penalties to hit, but apparently it doesn't get to benefit from the weapon's full threat range unless it spends a feat to become fully proficient with it.

[Garagos]

Whether its 19-20/x4 or just x4, that Greathammer is probably still the best hammer in the game that I can think of, so I'd recommend that as well. If he doesn't wanna burn a feat on EWP, go with Maul. I think that weapon is something like 1d10 x3, but i'm AFB so can't be sure.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm partial to the Jovar, myself (it's a greatsword with a natural threat range of 18-20, from Planar Handbook). Keen or Improved Critical make it a 15-20 threat weapon, and you can just keep adding critical chances from there. As to whether or not I would actually get Exotic Weapon Proficiency for it...

I can't speak to the heart of the truth with the dispute above, though. To be honest, I don't explore exotic weapons often.


Whether its 19-20/x4 or just x4, that Greathammer is probably still the best hammer in the game that I can think of, so I'd recommend that as well. If he doesn't wanna burn a feat on EWP, go with Maul. I think that weapon is something like 1d10 x3, but i'm AFB so can't be sure.

You know what... This is making me think: has anybody out there EVER compiled a complete list of all the bog-standard non-magical weapons and armor out there?

[Garagos]

I'm partial to the Jovar, myself

I thought about suggesting this too Lonely, because I think that weapon is pretty tasty even if it does cost a feat, but the guy seems to wanna smash things with a big mallet.

[JellyPooga]

I'm going to throw in my 2p with the humble Quarterstaff.

Sure, it's not fancy, it doesn't have the best damage, crit range or even any special rules except being double-ended. It does have the major advantage of being exceedingly cheap, easy to get hold of and is often allowed to be carried in circumstances that you'd otherwise have to give up your weapons ("you wouldn't force an old man to give up his walking stick, would you?").

Frankly, the weapon you use is largely irrelevant, except for style points, because your main damage returns come from things like Str, Power Attacks, etc. A dude who can kill a man with a big stonkin' sword gets less style points than the dude who does it with what's essentially just a stick!

[Asgardian]

Doesn't a large Goliath GreatHammer (RoS) do 3d6 crit 20/4 with a +2 to sunder?

[Lonely Tylenol]

Doesn't a large Goliath GreatHammer (RoS) do 3d6 crit 20/4 with a +2 to sunder?

Yes, but the former is true of every weapon that does 1d12 or 2d6 as a Medium-sized weapon, so the next step from there is to find the best weapon therein.

Goliath Greathammer is a solid option, though.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you want the best two handed weapon for medium characters... any particular reason you are trying to limit yourself to a hammer...?

My favorite way of doing the strongman/mythic (if you are a big buff guy) trope of 'wielding a big exotic weapon' is this:

*Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kaorti Resin Jovar (Kaorti Resin is online, also described in some Eberron Books. Jovar is in Planar Handbook. Kaorti Resin will need DM intervention to figure out the cost of it)
*Buy a set of Strongarm Bracers (Magic Item Compendium)
*Buy or obtain a Large Kaorti Resin Jovar (or another weapon that uses identical stats to that which you describe as ridiculously big.)
*Eventually get it to +1 Keen, at the very least
*Wield you really big exotic weapon that, with Keen, does 3d6 with a 15-20/x4 crit range, and slice things to pieces!
*If you want, stack a few other size increases from Person Man's list of ways to increase effective weapon size (remember, Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Strongarm Bracers doesn't stack with Powerful Build, so you need things that do stack)

[Vegan Zombie]

For a great hammer I use the same stats as a great axe. 1d12 damage, crit x3.
Or you could always use a great sword or full blade.

[Gavinfoxx]

For hammers using actual D&D rules...

the best non reach bludgeoning simple weapon for two handed fighting is:
Heavy Mace or Morningstar (perhaps refluffed? wield them two handed, of course.)

the best non reach bludgeoning martial weapon for two handed fighting is:
Executioner's Mace (from Dungeon 135 I think) or Heavy Flail (refluffed) or Maul (Complete Warrior) or Warmace (Complete Warrior)

The best non reach bludgeoning exotic weapon for two handed fighting is:
Flindbar (Monster Manual III, perhaps refluiffed) or Dragonchain (Red Hand of Darkness I think) or Goliath Greathammer (Races of Stone and Monster Manual IV, remember to check recent printings for corrected stats).

[Venusaur]

Take the Titan bloodline, and wield a gargantuan maul at no penalty.

[Little Brother]

Best weapons in the game are the Spiked Chain and the Greatsword. without a doubt..

Best bludgeoning weapon in the game? Rod of the Wyrm :smalltongue:. Seriously, though, I'd go with the maul or greathammer.

[Lans]

Suglins that deal-2d8 I believe

[Ketiara]

If you want the best two handed weapon for medium characters... any particular reason you are trying to limit yourself to a hammer...?

My favorite way of doing the strongman/mythic (if you are a big buff guy) trope of 'wielding a big exotic weapon' is this:

*Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kaorti Resin Jovar (Kaorti Resin is online, also described in some Eberron Books. Jovar is in Planar Handbook. Kaorti Resin will need DM intervention to figure out the cost of it)
*Buy a set of Strongarm Bracers (Magic Item Compendium)
*Buy or obtain a Large Kaorti Resin Jovar (or another weapon that uses identical stats to that which you describe as ridiculously big.)
*Eventually get it to +1 Keen, at the very least
*Wield you really big exotic weapon that, with Keen, does 3d6 with a 15-20/x4 crit range, and slice things to pieces!
*If you want, stack a few other size increases from Person Man's list of ways to increase effective weapon size (remember, Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Strongarm Bracers doesn't stack with Powerful Build, so you need things that do stack)

The weapon is for a new guy to our groupe, he is a really strong ugly barbarian, that loves his great big hammer... Its kinda a perverted love relationship... But the first session he showed up with a 2h club (cos he didnt know any better weapon to discribe what he wanted). So I thought that id learn whats out there, and what it would take to get it. And if there werent any good (or even decent) hammers I would suggest somthing to replace it, and hope he could fall in love with at :D

[Gavinfoxx]

Well I also listed the best non-reach bludgeoning weapons at each proficiency set, and their sources. Go check them out.

[Hirax]

I'll throw a shoutout to the falchion. If you'll be playing in a campaign where you're fighting lots of goblins and other humanoids that aren't immune to crits, it's a great option.

[Azernak0]

Large Morningstar/Heavy Mace is a 2-handed weapon that is considered simple and deals 2d6. That is pretty good. Minotaur Hammer, even if it is 1-20 X4, is just not completely amazing and I doubt it is even worth the feat expenditure. "Congratulations, if you crit you automatically kill it! That's not too different from normal."

However, Spiked Chain wins. Reach, able to hit adjacent enemies (I believe this is the only weapon that can do it other than Reach + Armor spikes), Trip, Weapon Finesse, 2:1 Power Attack, and a Disarm bonus? It is just awesome on toast.

[Tytalus]

I'll throw a shoutout to the falchion. If you'll be playing in a campaign where you're fighting lots of goblins and other humanoids that aren't immune to crits, it's a great option.

While crits are fun, he's better off with a greatsword - unless he has massive damage bonus (strength, etc.). The break-even point ist surprisingly high; the switch to the falchion is only worth it with a damage bonus of over 39 points.

[BerronBrightaxe]

I'll throw a shoutout to the falchion. If you'll be playing in a campaign where you're fighting lots of goblins and other humanoids that aren't immune to crits, it's a great option.

Same here so, seconded...

at low lvl a high threatrange (18-20) is nice due to the fact that you have crits more often.

at higher lvls damage isn't about the dices (greatsword: 2d6 vs falchion: 2d4) but about the power attack and extra bonusses. extra critical hits mean more damage. Going with a threatrange from (keen falchion +1: 15-20) is a nice way of getting them.

And lets be honest... in the end, moar dicerolls = moar fun :smallbiggrin:

[Bloodgruve]

The stats given for a typical greathorn minotuar appears to be lacking EWP. It doesn't look like it takes any nonproficiency penalties to hit, but apparently it doesn't get to benefit from the weapon's full threat range unless it spends a feat to become fully proficient with it.

IIRC there is something in one of the Completes that lets Elves use 'Elvish' weapons and Gnomes use 'Gnomish' weapons with out needing EWP. Could that extend to the Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer for a Greathorn Minotaur?

Falchion, Greatsword and Spiked Chain are my favorites.

Blood~

[Keld Denar]

While crits are fun, he's better off with a greatsword - unless he has massive damage bonus (strength, etc.). The break-even point ist surprisingly high; the switch to the falchion is only worth it with a damage bonus of over 39 points.

How do you get that number? A falchion is a 2d4 weapon, great sword is 2d6. Average difference is 2 (5 vs 7 both are bell curves). Weapon Spec also only adds 2 damage, and most people think out sucks. 5% more crits, 10% with keen, seems to be worth 2 damage from a fairly low point.

That's kinda why I never understood the Jovar love. It's spending a feat for 2 more damage than a falchion. Weapon Spec is bad, but EWP Jovar is good? Huh? Sure, if you get a couple of size attacks on there, it goes up a bit faster, which might be worth it (or just use a great sword), but otherwise not worth the praise.

And good luck actually getting Kaorti resin in a game. Even if it exists in the game world, an you have to find a demon that basically hates all life and loves cruelty to mortals above all else, and then convince it to make you one, and THEN it only lasts for a year before it crumbles unless you can convince it or another one to reinforce it every so often.


Yea...good luck with that. I foresee many years down that path. If one of my players asked for one, I'd totally mess them around for however long they focus on it, warn them that helping the demon will probably cause more harm than good, and then have them inadvertently establish a Kaorti cyst in the middle of whatever goodly city they are affiliated with and laugh a the Kaorti dice up all of their friends and loved ones, and then the creature would still betray them out of spite so that they or the creature dies, denying then from the material anyway. That would amuse me. Dealing with fiends seldom results in happiness for anyone but the fiend. It's in the job description.

[Lonely Tylenol]

How do you get that number? A falchion is a 2d4 weapon, great sword is 2d6. Average difference is 2 (5 vs 7 both are bell curves). Weapon Spec also only adds 2 damage, and most people think out sucks. 5% more crits, 10% with keen, seems to be worth 2 damage from a fairly low point.

That's kinda why I never understood the Jovar love. It's spending a feat for 2 more damage than a falchion. Weapon Spec is bad, but EWP Jovar is good? Huh? Sure, if you get a couple of size attacks on there, it goes up a bit faster, which might be worth it (or just use a great sword), but otherwise not worth the praise.

Well, for what it's worth--bearing in mind that while I said I like the Jovar, I would not spend a feat on it--the Jovar's 2d6 also happens to be at the point where weapon damage starts to explode. A Falchion-user with Weapon Specialization (falchion) deals an average of 7 damage (2d4+2) with the weapon, the same as a Jovar-user with Weapon Proficiency (jovar) (2d6), but a Falchion-user with Weapon Specialization (falchion) who has been enlarged by means of Enlarge Person does less damage than a Jovar-user with Weapon Proficiency (jovar) under Enlarge Person (2d6+2, average 9, vs. 3d6, average 10.5), and had to burn an extra feat (Weapon Focus [falchion]) to do so. From there, the damage continues to explode; if you advance two more size categories by whatever means, the difference becomes 5, even after Weapon Specialization.

Worth noting that the same is true of a Greatsword vs. a Falchion, and the only difference is the threat range (which has a difference of one). So while there is a definite advantage to EWP (jovar) vs. WS (falchion), there really isn't much of one between EWP (jovar) vs. a greatsword.

[Keld Denar]

I addressed that. Its a marginal bonus at best, though, even with the sizing unless you are able to stack more than 2 size bonuses on (at which point you are using magic so awesome that it is questionable why you are still wielding a weapon). Everyone always looks down on Weapon Spec because +2 damage is not worth a feat. I agree. Getting +2 damage, or +3.5 damage under the influence of a spell...eh. Compared to Power Attack or other useful feats, none of them are worth it. Which is why I wonder why there is so much Jovar love. I'd rather use a falchion and save either feat for something that is good.

And really, unless you are up to your neck in uncritable critters, falchion > greatsword in nearly every applicable application.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Large Morningstar/Heavy Mace is a 2-handed weapon that is considered simple and deals 2d6. That is pretty good. Minotaur Hammer, even if it is 1-20 X4, is just not completely amazing and I doubt it is even worth the feat expenditure. "Congratulations, if you crit you automatically kill it! That's not too different from normal."
So taking a -2 on all attack rolls to deal a bit less damage and have a much worse crit in exchange for one feat is "better"?

IIRC there is something in one of the Completes that lets Elves use 'Elvish' weapons and Gnomes use 'Gnomish' weapons with out needing EWP. Could that extend to the Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer for a Greathorn Minotaur?

...That's a feat. It could certainly be a racial feature (unless they wrote up a statblock that doesn't include it), but otherwise? Nah. Of course, Wizards doesn't have any clue what they're doing a couple times each book, as showcased by the example PrC characters that occasionally don't meet the requirements for their PrC.

[Thurbane]

There are (at least) two ways to get proficiency with ALL exotic weapons without using feats: A dip into Master of Masks; and also, I believe, one of the on-line vestiges for Binders.