Creating a Beholder with the Multi-Headed Template...what happens?

[Masaioh]

Does it sprout additional faces? Does it get extra eyestalks? Do the eyestalks turn into mini-beholders?

I want to make one for a campaign because it would be evil, but what would it LOOK like?

[jaybird]

Something like this, I would imagine:

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/42/110Weezing.png

[Telonius]

I don't think beholder qualifies. Multiheaded can be added to "any corporeal creature with a discernable head." Since a Beholder basically is a head, it's not really discernable from the rest of its anatomy.

But, if a DM did allow it, I'd say that it just looks like two (or more) beholders "back" to "back."

[Snowbluff]

The same thing that happens when you use Graft Weapon on your Unarmed Strike.

[Masaioh]

I don't think beholder qualifies. Multiheaded can be added to "any corporeal creature with a discernable head." Since a Beholder basically is a head, it's not really discernable from the rest of its anatomy.

But, if a DM did allow it, I'd say that it just looks like two (or more) beholders "back" to "back."

I just looked up "discernible" in a dictionary, and I got "Perceptible, as by the faculty of vision or the intellect". If we can tell that it is a head, as opposed to another body part, then it has a discernible head. Plus, this is for a campaign I'm dming.

Also, I don't know what "Graft Weapon" is.

[Dr Bwaa]

I have no idea, but I'm inclined to go with jaybird on this one. Multiheaded doesn't seem to specify that the creature have a body besides its head, so...

I kind of think it would gain an extra head, and therefore probably an extra antimagic-cone-big-eye, but no new eyestalks--the new head floats separately, attached to the same eyes on its own stalks. Basically you've got something like this (with more small eyes obviously):

...../ :smallwink: \
:wink:- :smallwink: -:wink:
.....\ :smallwink: /

Which I think would (A) look hilarious, (B) Actually be hilarious, and (C) (hopefully) horrify your players. I say go for it.

[maysarahs]

Darn it. I clicked on this thread all ready to make a "it would look like your koffing evolved into a weezing" joke but I was beat to the punch! *shakes fist in the air. Storms out*

[Masaioh]

I'm also going to make it Lernaean, so it's essentially a Beholder-Hydra. I was going to use the Hive Mother as the base creature but it's CR would be too high for a non-epic game.

[ThiagoMartell]

I just looked up "discernible" in a dictionary, and I got "Perceptible, as by the faculty of vision or the intellect". If we can tell that it is a head, as opposed to another body part, then it has a discernible head. Plus, this is for a campaign I'm dming.
You don't say you "have a human" because you're a discernible human, do you?

[Arcanist]

I'm also going to make it Lernaean, so it's essentially a Beholder-Hydra. I was going to use the Hive Mother as the base creature but it's CR would be too high for a non-epic game.

How high optimized is it? :smallconfused: because if its High OP then CR is more of a recommendation :smallannoyed:

[Masaioh]

How high optimized is it? :smallconfused: because if its High OP then CR is more of a recommendation :smallannoyed:

I'm not sure how exactly optimization is measured, but the WBL will definitely be higher than normal and we use copious amounts of homebrew, so much, much higher than the typical game.

[Arcanist]

I'm not sure how exactly optimization is measured, but the WBL will definitely be higher than normal and we use copious amounts of homebrew, so much, much higher than the typical game.

Can your players get away with Codzilla, Batman Wizard, and other such shanigans without you needing smack them with the DMG? If so then its High OP if you combo smash them with the DMG because of such BS then its mid to low.

[Masaioh]

Can your players get away with Codzilla, Batman Wizard, and other such shanigans without you needing smack them with the DMG? If so then its High OP if you combo smash them with the DMG because of such BS then its mid to low.

CoDzilla, yes. Not quite sure what batman wizard means, but I expect them to play casters to their full potential in order to compete with other characters or they. will. die.

[jaybird]

Darn it. I clicked on this thread all ready to make a "it would look like your koffing evolved into a weezing" joke but I was beat to the punch! *shakes fist in the air. Storms out*

My pre-exam song is the Pokemon theme. Don't try, sonny, you're out of your league :smalltongue:

[Lateral]

You don't say you "have a human" because you're a discernible human, do you?

Oh, now you're arguing syntax. That's a linguistic quirk; just because a beholder's entire body is pretty much all a head doesn't mean it doesn't have a head.

[ZardozSpeaks]

I believe the Multiheaded template increases LA and CR based on any special abilities of the creatures head. I'm away from the book, but I believe the Eye Stalks and Antimagic Cone would each count, increasing the LA and CR.

[Stegyre]

It floats before you, a bulbous body with a central, unblinking eye, and a large maw filled with daggerlike teeth. . . .
==> Beholders have no head.

The "bulbous body" may look like a head, but it is the beholder's body. This is also consistent with the most relevant dictionary definition of "head": "the upper part of the body in humans . . . [or] the corresponding part of the body in other animals."

In context, "discernable head" (as required by the template) means a part of the body that may be distinguished from the rest of the body as a head. Masaioh is, with respect, using the wrong definition of "discernable." The correct sense is not whether one can perceive but whether one can distinguish (from the rest of the creature) the head.

Rule of Cool-wise, however, do whatever you want. I just don't think this fits within RAW.

[Arcanist]

CoDzilla, yes. Not quite sure what batman wizard means, but I expect them to play casters to their full potential in order to compete with other characters or they. will. die.

Yeah, then CR is just a recommendation :smallannoyed: Feel free to throw epic obstacles at them, If they TRULY know what they are doing then they will be able to easily overcome them anything... just don't toss waves at them

[Uncle Pine]

I'm not sure about the Lernaean part, but I would say that a two-headed beholder looks like two siamese beholder twins that share the same forehead. They'd have two antimagic cones, but probably not more eyestalks than normal beholders: ten extra rays deserve more than a simple +2 on the CR.

Also, two-headed beholder means two mouthpick weapons that you could use without penalty. I would recommend spiked chains. :smallcool:

[Masaioh]

I'm not sure about the Lernaean part, but I would say that a two-headed beholder looks like two siamese beholder twins that share the same forehead. They'd have two antimagic cones, but probably not more eyestalks than normal beholders: ten extra rays deserve more than a simple +2 on the CR.

Also, two-headed beholder means two mouthpick weapons that you could use without penalty. I would recommend spiked chains. :smallcool:

That settles it, I'm making a 4-headed Lernaean Hive Mother! I forgot about Beholder equipment completely...I'm going to have fun with this :smallbiggrin:. Keep in mind that this will probably be the final boss of the campaign, so I am going to pull out all the stops.

[Roguenewb]

You Blew It Up!

You Blew It All Up!

Damned Dirty Savage Species!!!!!

Also, hilarity ensues. That guy who drew the little picture of them sharing eyes is totally right, that's how I'd do it.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'd totally do the Weezing one. Just divide the eyestalks in between the two (or more!) heads.

[Masaioh]

I'd totally do the Weezing one. Just divide the eyestalks in between the two (or more!) heads.

The creature floating before you is a cluster of four chitinous spheres, connected by bizarre, membranous flesh. Each sphere has a cavernous mouth, filled with multiple rows of swordlike teeth, set beneath a huge eye. Ten whip-like tentacles thrash about randomly, each ending in a small eye recessed in a bony hood.

How does this sound?

[Lateral]

The "bulbous body" may look like a head, but it is the beholder's body. This is also consistent with the most relevant dictionary definition of "head": "the upper part of the body in humans . . . [or] the corresponding part of the body in other animals."

Nah, I wouldn't call that the most important part of it. Here's the full definition:

-the upper part of the body in humans, joined to the trunk by the neck, containing the brain, eyes, ears, nose, and mouth.
-the corresponding part of the body in other animals.
(Ignore the neck part, as that clearly isn't true- fish, for example, have heads but no neck.)

For all intents and purposes, it really is a head; it has the eyes, mouth, ears, nose, and brain in it. (Assuming beholders have noses and ears, or at least nasal and aural sensory organs.) That 'corresponding part' you're talking about doesn't make sense if it refers to 'the upper part of the body' alone, since there are various other things that can be considered 'the upper part of the body'.

[awa]

Darn it. I clicked on this thread all ready to make a "it would look like your koffing evolved into a weezing" joke but I was beat to the punch! *shakes fist in the air. Storms out*

i did the exact same thing except i was beaten twice

[Kuulvheysoon]

The creature floating before you is a cluster of four chitinous spheres, connected by bizarre, membranous flesh. Each sphere has a cavernous mouth, filled with multiple rows of swordlike teeth, set beneath a huge eye. Ten whip-like tentacles thrash about randomly, each ending in a small eye recessed in a bony hood.

How does this sound?

In a word?

EPIC.

Seriously, If I was a character and I heard this, I'd probably be needing a new pair of pants.

[doko239]

My concept would be thus:


A central, spherical body, larger in mass than a standard Beholder. Four trunklike tendrils extend from the sphere at roughly equal intervals, each ending in a smaller orb featuring a huge, fanged mouth and one enormous red eye. Randomly placed about the central sphere are ten smaller eyestalks, which twitch and pulsate as the larger eyes search for intruders.

Another idea would be to draw inspiration from a Gibbering Mouther; make it an amorphous mutant beholder, a single body with eyes and mouths of various sizes randomly placed around its mass.

As an aside, you could take the opportunity for a bit of humor and give each "head" a different, conflicting personality. This could even be taken advantage of by your players if they're clever enough to turn the heads against each other :smallbiggrin:

[Necroticplague]

As an aside, you could take the opportunity for a bit of humor and give each "head" a different, conflicting personality. This could even be taken advantage of by your players if they're clever enough to turn the heads against each other :smallbiggrin:

That wouldn't even take to much effort, it's outright stated that beholders pretty much hates every other beholder except for a few of their children. And even then, they eat some of those.

[Waker]

Also the Beholder's source of madness is the conflict between the rational and intuitive minds. Each head could embody one of the aspects.

[Boogastreehouse]

As an aside, you could take the opportunity for a bit of humor and give each "head" a different, conflicting personality. This could even be taken advantage of by your players if they're clever enough to turn the heads against each other :smallbiggrin:

I did this with an Ettin. It would focus its attacks on one unfortunate victim, until the players noticed it was grumbling to itself. Once the players got its heads arguing so it split its attack, they got a lot of relief.

Of course after they killed it, they resorted to their usual tactic of using "speak with dead" to try and learn where they needed to go to find the MacGuffin (I think these guys would sooner die than look for clues or use social skills to figure anything out).

I know this isn't how "speak with dead" works, but I really enjoyed having the heads give different answers to their questions.

[Runestar]

No one is mentioning the quintessons from transformers? :smallamused:

[Arcane_Secrets]

I like the idea of a multi-headed beholder that looks like the fractal giraffe, if you've ever seen that photoshopped picture. There would be a main head with the antimagic eye, with three smaller heads with smaller antimagic eyes, and then those three heads would have three heads atop them with smaller nonfunctional antimagic eyes, but their head tentacle eyes would work. So this isn't a TPK perhaps there's significant lag time on how many rays can be brought to bear on a single foe of a single type or something similar.

It's totally non-aerodynamic even for a creature that flies magically, but I don't think your players will have ever seen anything even remotely similar to it.

[Masaioh]

I like the idea of a multi-headed beholder that looks like the fractal giraffe, if you've ever seen that photoshopped picture. There would be a main head with the antimagic eye, with three smaller heads with smaller antimagic eyes, and then those three heads would have three heads atop them with smaller nonfunctional antimagic eyes, but their head tentacle eyes would work. So this isn't a TPK perhaps there's significant lag time on how many rays can be brought to bear on a single foe of a single type or something similar.

It's totally non-aerodynamic even for a creature that flies magically, but I don't think your players will have ever seen anything even remotely similar to it.

Just googled the image of the fractal giraffe and it looks hilarious. I've finished making the creature; it has three additional antimagic eyes and three additional bite attacks (that can each swallow whole), and thanks to the base Hive Mother's feats it has the ability to turn the cones into targeted anti-magic rays that can suppress casters or even disjoin magic items.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Just googled the image of the fractal giraffe and it looks hilarious. I've finished making the creature; it has three additional antimagic eyes and three additional bite attacks (that can each swallow whole), and thanks to the base Hive Mother's feats it has the ability to turn the cones into targeted anti-magic rays that can suppress casters or even disjoin magic items.

...

I need to spring this on players myself someday. I'm looking forward to hearing how it works out.

[marcielle]

Sorry, but were you going to make something that was ONLY head able to regrow heads?

[killianh]

By description in the book: No you can't apply it

By what it actually looks like: Yes, and it gets everything.

By being the DM and being allowed to play around with the rules to suit your game: Do as you please

[rweird]

Remember, a four headed beholder still can only fire 3 eye rays in a 90 degree arc, if you have four times the eye rays, you could fire all three of your Sleep rays at one creature, though you couldn't target anyone else in the arc, unless you add the Paragon Template, in which case you could fire 18. If you give it feats that allows the heads to act at different times however...

[Lord.Sorasen]

Something like this, I would imagine:

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/42/110Weezing.png

Aww man, I was so excited to post this!

[Necroticplague]

Dang, since everyone else has done the pokemon jokes...
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/nightelf_37/Plants%20vs%20%20Zombies%20-%20Plants/SplitPea.jpg
Something different, but related