but how do you poison a thing with no meaningful biology

[sreservoir]

Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf’s resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality.

the elf is immune; thus, the example more or less gives precedent for a creature with immunity to some type of magic to voluntarily forgo its immunity.

thus should include, among other things, the construct and undead immunities to poison and disease and mind-affecting.

consider: if you manage to make it voluntarily forgo its immunity, you can poison an animated object. hey, let's poison an animated ice cube! and then cast detect thoughts on it!

[ryu]

The answer to your question is stop killing catgirls! The snarky answer is very carefully.

[Blisstake]

"...willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with special resistance to magic..."

So feeding a willing construct poison wouldn't work. The poison spell? Maybe, but the second bolded part might conflict with that, since poison immunity isn't any special resistance to magic.

[sreservoir]

"...willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with special resistance to magic..."

So feeding a willing construct poison wouldn't work. The poison spell? Maybe, but the second bolded part might conflict with that, since poison immunity isn't any special resistance to magic.

the example is the elf sleep immunity, so it's pretty clear it doesn't just apply to magic in general.

I suppose mundane poison wouldn't necessarily work, but the poison spell still works, death effects can work just fine on undead and constructs, mind-affecting can work on mindless (if you can manage to get them to suppress that quality -- might be difficult).

[Blisstake]

The other explanation would be that the poison spell affects the creature, but the poison created by it doesn't. Basically, you cram it full of poison, but it doesn't do anything.

[ryu]

If a necromancer does that and combines it with the exploding minion thing do surrounding creatures risk taking it by inhalation? If so that would be so sweet...

[Necroticplague]

Depends on what stat it targets. If it targets a physical stats, it works by dissolving some part related a little, like a little bit of muscle for STR, or the joints for DEX. if it targets a mental score, it actually damages the "soul" (or animating force, if golem or undead), impacting its ability to think (there is already a precedence for this in BOVD with psychic poisons).

[phantomreader42]

the example is the elf sleep immunity, so it's pretty clear it doesn't just apply to magic in general.

I suppose mundane poison wouldn't necessarily work, but the poison spell still works, death effects can work just fine on undead and constructs, mind-affecting can work on mindless (if you can manage to get them to suppress that quality -- might be difficult).

I've seen the elf sleep immunity read as immune to magical sleep effects, but not mundane ones (such as poision that causes unconsciousness). Which makes sense, why would drow use poison that induces unconsciousness if their ancestral enemies are immune to it?

A somewhat-related question: does poison immunity render one immune to drunkenness (Since effects of alcohol mirror those of poison, requiring fortitude saves and causing WIS damage)? Can a druid get drunk? Can a vampire (presumably by drinking the blood of an alcoholic)?

[Necroticplague]

I've seen the elf sleep immunity read as immune to magical sleep effects, but not mundane ones (such as poision that causes unconsciousness). Which makes sense, why would drow use poison that induces unconsciousness if their ancestral enemies are immune to it?

A somewhat-related question: does poison immunity render one immune to drunkenness (Since effects of alcohol mirror those of poison, requiring fortitude saves and causing WIS damage)? Can a druid get drunk? Can a vampire (presumably by drinking the blood of an alcoholic)?

vampire, no (due to immunity to things that require FORT saves that don't effect objects), druid, yes (since alcohol is not a poison, but it merely uses similar mechanics).

[animewatcha]

Is there a way you can get a animated object to imbibe a potion? If so, combine with something like disintegrate and you 'poisoned' it with disintegrate.

Magic of faerun, master alchemist prestige class.

[ryu]

Wait what? How do you poison something with disintegrate and more importantly why do that instead of just casting the spell? If you want the anonymity and safety of poison why not use something that takes longer and is harder to detect?

[Flickerdart]

I've seen the elf sleep immunity read as immune to magical sleep effects, but not mundane ones (such as poision that causes unconsciousness). Which makes sense, why would drow use poison that induces unconsciousness if their ancestral enemies are immune to it?
Unconsciousness is not sleep. Elves are not immune to unconsciousness.

[Lord_Gareth]

Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

So (Ex) sleep abilities still work just fine.

[ThiagoMartell]

The answer to your question is stop killing catgirls! The snarky answer is very carefully.

/thread
ryu wins
PERFECT!

[maysarahs]

I think this clause was only included to allow a suitably epic/cinematic death or effect if the story calls for it. If the BBEG had a plan to flood the city with a poison and in the process made himself immune. This mechanic would allow the "good guys convince bad guy to have a change of heart. He sacrifices himself to save the city" trope to play out. Any other similar tropes can also be enacted. It just serves as a way to let people get negatively affected willingly even if the rules don't allow it.

I think this because such an action would most definitely cause the "any command that goes against the creatures basic programming breaks the effect" line to kick in for most domination effects. (I'm afb so if I misquoted forgive me). Thus the case where this works would most likely only come into play when the character wants to subject themselves to the effect

[ryu]

And suddenly I have a won threads count. Adding to signature.

[Lord_Gareth]

Guys, we still haven't covered the bit where the immunity to poison isn't an effect they can turn off; it's not a magical effect that they can voluntarily submit to. As far as the Poison spell, I submit this to you: Constructs have a Con of -, which is what gives them the poison immunity to begin with. The Poison spell deals Con damage. Since they don't have a con score, even if you somehow got them to submit to it, IT WOULD NOT DO ANYTHING.

[Spuddles]

That clause exists so liches can use polymorph effects on themselves, etc. Note that it isnt changing the legality of a target. Slay Living wouldnt work on a vampire because slay living targets a living creature. Likewise with charm person or enlarge person being cast on a goliath.

[Lord_Gareth]

That clause exists so liches can use polymorph effects on themselves, etc. Note that it isnt changing the legality of a target. Slay Living wouldnt work on a vampire because slay living targets a living creature. Likewise with charm person or enlarge person being cast on a goliath.

Wrong. The lich template has an actual built-in exception for polymorph effects.


Immunities (Ex)

Liches have immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph (though they can use polymorph effects on themselves), and mind-affecting attacks

[Spuddles]

Wrong. The lich template has an actual built-in exception for polymorph effects.

Et cetera:

Used at the end of a list to indicate that further, similar items are included.
Indicating that a list is too tedious or clichéd to give in full: "Dancer, Prancer, et cetera, et cetera".

[KillianHawkeye]

I've seen the elf sleep immunity read as immune to magical sleep effects, but not mundane ones (such as poision that causes unconsciousness). Which makes sense, why would drow use poison that induces unconsciousness if their ancestral enemies are immune to it?

Because the drow like taking prisoners and selling them as slaves? Not everything is about fighting the surface elves.

[TuggyNE]

Because the drow like taking prisoners and selling them as slaves? Not everything is about fighting the surface elves.

Note that the SRD specifically calls out drow sleep poison as working on drow and other elves:
An opponent hit by a drow’s poisoned weapon must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or fall unconscious. After 1 minute, the subject must succeed on another DC 13 Fortitude save or remain unconscious for 2d4 hours. A typical drow carries 1d4-1 doses of drow knockout poison. Drow typically coat arrows and crossbow bolts with this poison, but it can also be applied to a melee weapon. Note that drow have no special ability to apply poison without risking being poisoned themselves. Since this poison is not a magical effect, drow and other elves are susceptible to it.

The last sentence is particularly interesting as calling out non-magical sleep effects.

[Flickerdart]

Note that the SRD specifically calls out drow sleep poison as working on drow and other elves:

The last sentence is particularly interesting as calling out non-magical sleep effects.
That last sentence is redundant, as drow poison is not a sleep effect.

[Lord_Gareth]

That last sentence is redundant, as drow poison is not a sleep effect.

This ENTIRE ARGUMENT is redundant. Did no one else see the SRD quote I posted re: elves and sleep and how IT'S ONLY MAGICAL CRAP they're immune to?

[animewatcha]

Wait what? How do you poison something with disintegrate and more importantly why do that instead of just casting the spell? If you want the anonymity and safety of poison why not use something that takes longer and is harder to detect?

By adapting exactly what I posted. Slip a little of potion of something like disintegrate into like food or drink and wreck havoc. The prestige class I stated can make pots of up to 9th spell levels. Disintegrate was mearly an example of what to use since it was a 'chair'. However, why do that instead of just casting the spell? Cause then, it might be seen who casted the spell versus if you slip in via poisoning. Safety and anonymity are possibly better cause something like disintegrate 'isn't' a poison and wouldn't normally be thought of as being likened/delivered to one.

Potions of 3rd spell level and lower might be 'common' knowledge, but 4th and higher can be more 'underground' / BBEG / wizard-alchemist schools / etc.

[animewatcha]

Wait what? How do you poison something with disintegrate and more importantly why do that instead of just casting the spell? If you want the anonymity and safety of poison why not use something that takes longer and is harder to detect?

By adapting exactly what I posted. Slip a little of potion of something like disintegrate into like food or drink and wreck havoc. The prestige class I stated can make pots of up to 9th spell levels. Disintegrate was mearly an example of what to use since it was a 'chair'. However, why do that instead of just casting the spell? Cause then, it might be seen who casted the spell versus if you slip in via poisoning. Safety and anonymity are possibly better cause something like disintegrate 'isn't' a poison and wouldn't normally be thought of as being likened/delivered to one.

Potions of 3rd spell level and lower might be 'common' knowledge, but 4th and higher can be more 'underground' / BBEG / wizard-alchemist schools / etc.