Tiers for Generic Classses?

[killianh]

I noticed the generic classes from UA and was wondering what tier they would fall into?

[Oscredwin]

Spellcaster: Strong Tier2
Expert & Warrior: Tier 4?

[killianh]

I was thinking a bit higher actually. The Fighter is a tier 4 and I think the ability to gain Turn Undead, Evasion, Sneak attack, and everything else available is better than the fighter feat you get with a standard so I'd even go as far as to say its a tier 3. The spell caster definitely should be a tier 1 because it states that though you have to decide between Arcane and Divine magic, it has no effects on the spells you can learn, granting you access to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard\Sorcerer spell lists to learn from, meaning pick Divine, take Turn Undead as one of your bonus feats, and you DMM on Arcane spells. The Expert would probably be the same level as the Rogue.

[sonofzeal]

I was thinking a bit higher actually. The Fighter is a tier 4 and I think the ability to gain Turn Undead, Evasion, Sneak attack, and everything else available is better than the fighter feat you get with a standard so I'd even go as far as to say its a tier 3. The spell caster definitely should be a tier 1 because it states that though you have to decide between Arcane and Divine magic, it has no effects on the spells you can learn, granting you access to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard\Sorcerer spell lists to learn from, meaning pick Divine, take Turn Undead as one of your bonus feats, and you DMM on Arcane spells. The Expert would probably be the same level as the Rogue.
The caster is high-T2 because of the delayed progression and the Spells Known mechanic. The dividing line between T1 and T2 is generally the ability to learn or cast a huge variety of spells from day to day. While the Caster has an unparalleled list to cast from, in practice it can only pick up a set number of those. It's better than Sorc, definitely, but doesn't cross the line to T1.

[Oscredwin]

The spellcaster is a strong tier 2 because despite the fact that it has more tricks than any other tier 2, any given spellcaster will only have a few tricks. Tier 1 casters can pull out a different game breaking trick every day of the week.

The fighter is actually a strong tier 5 (variants are tier 4), and I knew the Warrior is stronger. But twinking him out with the things you mention only puts him at the level of the barbarian charger, not the warblade.

[sonofzeal]

The fighter is actually a strong tier 5 (variants are tier 4), and I knew the Warrior is stronger. But twinking him out with the things you mention only puts him at the level of the barbarian charger, not the warblade.
I dunno... I mean, doing what he says starts getting up into T4 territory, but then you add being able to grab all sorts of Binding and Incarnum feats, not to mention any other awesome feats in the game, and you start pushing High T4 territory. And adding UMD as a potential (who would pass it up?) Class Skill might push it over the edge.

[killianh]

That makes me start to wonder exactly how many different class abilities you could end up with with the warrior...I'm going to have to work on something like that later

[Rainbownaga]

Also remember that a caster can use any wand or staff at will with no need for UMD since he/she has every spell on his/her list.

The problem with the warrior is the 2+int skills/level. UMD hide and move silently will likely be the only feats you'll have.

I've been looking at the forums regarding the warrior and the expert, and it seems that the expert is consistantly ranked as a higher (or equivalent) tier, whereas the warrior is the 'more powerful option'. Goes to show that the tier system doesn't equate to raw power (except at the bottom tiers) but more about versatility.

[sonofzeal]

The problem with the warrior is the 2+int skills/level. UMD hide and move silently will likely be the only feats you'll have.
Why would the Warrior take Hide and Move Silently, if they get Heavy Armor proficiency and no benefit for going Steath?

They get six skills of their choice, so I'd be looking at UMD + Diplomacy, with just enough in Bluff, Spellcraft, Sense Motive, and Know: Nobility to get the synergy bonuses. Hey presto, six class skills translate into a lot of oomf!