Lichdom [The Ritual of the Endless Night and you!]

[Arcanist]

Alright so you've just accomplished by what most would consider the unthinkable... You have performed the dreaded Ritual and embraced the dark, cruel, pleasure of Undeath... You are a Lich of unthinkable power and Arcane Might... and then one question dawns upon you... "Where am I going to keep my Phylactery?"

As an Epic Wizard (40th level) you can hide your Phylactery anywhere in the Cosmos and it still wouldn't be safe from your enemies, What lengths would you go to, to making your phylactery safe? :smallamused:

EDIT: Due to ambiguity in Lich "resurrection" I'll be placing some... "ground rules"


You will spawn within 1,500ft of your phylactery
A dead body must be present for you to possess.
Placing your Phylactery in an Anti-Magic field will negate its effects until it is removed.
There is a 3 day timer on your "resurrection".

[Venusaur]

Inside the Tarrasque

[CTrees]

Phylactery? PAO->PAO->something intelligent, have it gain class levels and become my cohort. Give appropriate WBL, keep by my side so we can fight, together. Exact build is uncertain... at epic levels, anything is possible, really.

[Eonir]

In the deepest, darkest, scariest recesses of the Abyss. Trap the hell out of it. Then bury it.

[Lord_Gareth]

This question has already been comprehensively answered. I forget the precise name of the trick, but it basically goes like this: you build your phylactery into the composite armor of the Warforged, do the save-game trick on said Warforged, then drop it in a vat of Quintessence at the bottom of a trap-infested dungeon and pile all the loot in the vat around it. When whoever is trying to kill/rob you goes to get it out, the spell you cast activates and returns time to the point just after you cast the spell, with you (and only you) having any memories of the timestream that just got erased.

At that point you hunt down the bastards that made you lose your saved game.

[Namfuak]

Genesis a plane that mostly consists of black holes. Create a box of immovable rods around your phylactery, and put it in the middle. Immovable rods by RAW can only be moved by being pushed, so being pulled by the holes has no effect. As the plane expands and forms more black holes, it will become more and more impossible to actually access the phylactery.

[Arcanist]

This question has already been comprehensively answered. I forget the precise name of the trick, but it basically goes like this: you build your phylactery into the composite armor of the Warforged, do the save-game trick on said Warforged, then drop it in a vat of Quintessence at the bottom of a trap-infested dungeon and pile all the loot in the vat around it. When whoever is trying to kill/rob you goes to get it out, the spell you cast activates and returns time to the point just after you cast the spell, with you (and only you) having any memories of the timestream that just got erased.

At that point you hunt down the bastards that made you lose your saved game.

I should probably add that the laws of physics actually do apply otherwise end up with stuff like this:


Genesis a plane that mostly consists of black holes. Create a box of immovable rods around your phylactery, and put it in the middle. Immovable rods by RAW can only be moved by being pushed, so being pulled by the holes has no effect. As the plane expands and forms more black holes, it will become more and more impossible to actually access the phylactery.

and I'm a little bit confused on how the save game trick functions when placed in a state of timeless-ness... :smallconfused:

[Lord_Gareth]

I should probably add that the laws of physics actually do apply otherwise end up with stuff like this:



and I'm a little bit confused on how the save game trick functions when placed in a state of timeless-ness... :smallconfused:

Well, that's the thing - the Quintessence stops the spell from going off, suspending its duration. The reason the trick works AT ALL is once the Quintessence is gone (necessary to get at your phylactery), the spell completes as intended and you head backwards in time.

This is also great for freezing delayed blast fireballs and other things of that nature.

[Little Brother]

I think this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334) was generally accepted to be the best, or at least one of the best, methods.

[Lord_Gareth]

I think this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334) was generally accepted to be the best, or at least one of the best, methods.

Ah yes, one of the truly fun ones.

[Arcanist]

Well, that's the thing - the Quintessence stops the spell from going off, suspending its duration. The reason the trick works AT ALL is once the Quintessence is gone (necessary to get at your phylactery), the spell completes as intended and you head backwards in time.

This is also great for freezing delayed blast fireballs and other things of that nature.

I'm not seeing anything that prevents someone from casting a spell with an instantaneous duration into the Quintessence which would destroy the Phylactery and deny the activation of Time Hop...

I've never took the time to learn Psionics so pardon my lack of expertise :smalltongue:

[Lord_Gareth]

I'm not seeing anything that prevents someone from casting a spell with an instantaneous duration into the Quintessence which would destroy the Phylactery and deny the activation of Time Hop...

I've never took the time to learn Psionics so pardon my lack of expertise :smalltongue:

The spell gets suspended in the Quintessence.

[Lord_Gareth]

Did the forum eat my post?

[VGLordR2]

Champions of Ruin has a useful epic spell called Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery. It allows you to create additional Phylacteries equal to your casting stat modifier-1. It can also be cast multiple times for more Phylacteries. This won't help you hide anything, but it will make you dang hard to kill.

If you create six Phylacteries in this manner, it is not permissible to change your name to Lord Voldemort.

[Arcanist]

The spell gets suspended in the Quintessence.

Where the hell does it say that? :smallconfused:


Champions of Ruin has a useful epic spell called Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery. It allows you to create additional Phylacteries equal to your casting stat modifier-1. It can also be cast multiple times for more Phylacteries. This won't help you hide anything, but it will make you dang hard to kill.

If you create six Phylacteries in this manner, it is not permissible to change your name to Lord Voldemort.

Ah Epic Spellcasting :smalltongue: I'm surprised somebody doesn't just make like 10^∞ Phylacteries and an Epic Spell that hides each object against all divinations :smalltongue:

... Or just make your Phylactery sentient and have it be Vecna-Blooded.

[Lord_Gareth]

Quintessence suspends all spells, effects, objects etc that enter it. If your spell originates in the Quintessence, it doesn't go off until you smash the vat.

[Arcanist]

Quintessence suspends all spells, effects, objects etc that enter it. If your spell originates in the Quintessence, it doesn't go off until you smash the vat.




Metacreativity (Creation)
Level: Shaper 4
Display: Material; see text
Manifesting Time: 1 round
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: 1-inch-diameter dollop of quintessence; see text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 7
You collapse a bit of time from the continuum, forming a 1-ounce dollop of thick, gooey material called quintessence. This substance shimmers like a silver mirror when viewed from some angles but is transparent from other viewpoints. You can smooth a dollop of quintessence around any extremely small object.

Objects sealed within quintessence are protected from the effects of time; in practical terms, they enter a state of stasis. Living flesh with only partial contact with quintessence is also partially pulled out of the time stream (the manifester is immune to this effect). This disruption deals 1 point of damage per round beginning 10 rounds after partial contact occurs.

Quintessence can be manually scraped away from a protected object, freeing it to rejoin the time stream. When you do this, there is a 75% chance that the quintessence evaporates back into the continuum. Otherwise, it coalesces again into a 1-inch-diameter bead, available for later use.

Large quantities of quintessence could theoretically be gathered to preserve large items or structures (or even a complete living creature; if completely immersed, a living creature would not take the damage associated with partial contact). However, psionic characters and creatures are generally loath to do so because accumulations of quintessence weighing 1 pound or more hinder psionic activity within a 5-foot radius of the accumulation: Powers require twice as many power points to manifest, unless the manifester makes a successful DC 16 Will save each time he or she attempts to manifest a power. Also in these circumstances, manifesting a psi-like ability that is usable at will is a full-round action rather than a standard action.

I might be crazy but I'm just not seeing where it says that spells casted into Quintessence are suspended... I mean this might just be me (I recently broke my glasses) but I'm just not seeing where it says that :smallconfused:

Mines bolding where it says that it does that?

[VGLordR2]

I've got it. Make your Phylactery a Spellweaver (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_116.jpg)'s disk. According to Monster Manual II, the disk is indestructible. How do you destroy an indestructible Phylactery? You don't.

[Little Brother]

I've got it. Make your Phylactery a Spellweaver (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_116.jpg)'s disk. According to Monster Manual II, the disk is indestructible. How do you destroy and indestructible Phylactery? You don't.You place it in such a place that the lich dies immediately after popping out. Or you submerge it in quintessence. Or you throw it into a sphere of Annihilation.

Plenty of ways, all you need is a bit of creativity.

[JustPlayItLoud]

I'm a 40th level lich? Are you kidding me? My phylactery is a huge block of gold letters that say "PHYLACTERY" in a big, blocky typeface. I wear it around my neck and strut around, daring scrubby little level 30 punks to come at me.

[Eldan]

I've got it. Make your Phylactery a Spellweaver (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_116.jpg)'s disk. According to Monster Manual II, the disk is indestructible. How do you destroy an indestructible Phylactery? You don't.

Planeshift it to the Far Realm.

[VGLordR2]

You place it in such a place that the lich dies immediately after popping out. Or you submerge it in quintessence. Or you throw it into a sphere of Annihilation.

Plenty of ways, all you need is a bit of creativity.

None of those will destroy it. Not even the Sphere of Annihilation. As a matter of fact, the Sphere will make it easier to hide the Phylactery.

[Fable Wright]

None of those will destroy it. Not even the Sphere of Annihilation. As a matter of fact, the Sphere will make it easier to hide the Phylactery.

You can still get rid of the lich. Planeshift the phylactery to the Far Realms. The laws of reality no longer apply, and it can now (and likely will be) destroyed. If the lich reforms, he is now a small skeletal fish in the fast ocean that is the Far Realms. And he's unlikely to get back before he's destroyed for good.

[VGLordR2]

You can still get rid of the lich. Planeshift the phylactery to the Far Realms. The laws of reality no longer apply, and it can now (and likely will be) destroyed. If the lich reforms, he is now a small skeletal fish in the fast ocean that is the Far Realms. And he's unlikely to get back before he's destroyed for good.

Any way you slice it, it's still better than any other candidate for a Phylactery.

[Fable Wright]

Any way you slice it, it's still better than any other candidate for a Phylactery.

No, the Metal Dream may be much, much better, especially if you modify a few elements. First off, you need to get into the dream into the first place, which could be hard enough. Consider the logistics of trying to find and enter the collective Dreamscape of 108 Warforged that live within their own dream that are actively opposed to you achieving your goal, when the lich that spawned them has the ability to live outside of a stable time loop where each time the Doomsday Clock activates, the rest of the material world is reset while he lives in his metal dream world for the time being. He has had thousands of years of experience from the start of your quest to stop him, and even if you beat him your victory could well be undone by the Doomsday Clock that would allow the Lich to come back again.

[VGLordR2]

No, the Metal Dream may be much, much better, especially if you modify a few elements. First off, you need to get into the dream into the first place, which could be hard enough. Consider the logistics of trying to find and enter the collective Dreamscape of 108 Warforged that live within their own dream that are actively opposed to you achieving your goal, when the lich that spawned them has the ability to live outside of a stable time loop where each time the Doomsday Clock activates, the rest of the material world is reset while he lives in his metal dream world for the time being. He has had thousands of years of experience from the start of your quest to stop him, and even if you beat him your victory could well be undone by the Doomsday Clock that would allow the Lich to come back again.

That's what I get for saying something is "the best". There's always something to prove me wrong.

[Invader]

I'm a 40th level lich? Are you kidding me? My phylactery is a huge block of gold letters that say "PHYLACTERY" in a big, blocky typeface. I wear it around my neck and strut around, daring scrubby little level 30 punks to come at me.

This is what I was thinking lol.

[navar100]

Use it as one of the jeweled eyes in the statue of the beloved hero in the middle of the city.

[Fable Wright]

Huh... out of curiosity, why settle for just Lich at level 40 when you could be a Demilich? Magic Immunity is pretty sweet at high levels, and the other abilities aren't bad at all. At will Harm is pretty sweet, too.

Aside from that, if the Dream of Metal is off the table, the best place to store the Phylactery would probably be in the heart of an asteroid 2 solar systems away. Plane Shift can get you to another plane, and then back on the prime material plane again, letting you traverse those interstellar distances, but it would be hard for just about anyone else to get near your phylactery, ever.

[Arcanist]

Huh... out of curiosity, why settle for just Lich at level 40 when you could be a Demilich? Magic Immunity is pretty sweet at high levels, and the other abilities aren't bad at all. At will Harm is pretty sweet, too.

I find the idea behind Demiliches... a Little silly... I don't know how to imagine a Demilich either... :smallfrown: sure its a singular limb that has so much arcane power that it can completely... well blow your ass out of the planar water but it just feels so impractical... AND you look like Pirate Pete... :smalltongue:

I just enjoy having arms and legs to much to become a Demilich... :smallfrown: Its not a bad template its just... not me...

[Little Brother]

I, personally, like putting it in a bag of holding, walking into an AMF, putting said Bag of holding in another bag of holding. Then grab a Rod of Security, go into it, set up a tiny tub, fill it with quintessence, shrink a minion and the bag, forced dream and delay death him, throw him into it, throw the bag of holding in there, wrap it in lead and put it in, say, a pretty statue. Put another bajillion identical statues there. Then, jump out of the Rod and destroy it.

There. You cannot get to the place without Wish, and, if someone does get there, they can't find it without massive AOE, and if they do, then you have a good chance of having it undone through forced dream.

Not as good, but I do like it.

[kardar233]

Considering that real-world physics is in play, I've used a variation on the Dream of Metal myself.

Use the Warforged-in-Quintessence bit, but Shapechange him into a Dire Tortoise first. Instead of a slowly triggering clock I worded a Wish to destroy all the Quintessence when something I couldn't recover from happens or someone tries to stop it from going off (you'll want to take some care with this wording). Toss the block into a Riverine box and find something to put it in (I tossed it into the centre of the Earth as it was forming) and you're done this bit.

Then put the rest of the Warforged in a Microcosm, put them in another Riverine box that you've Spellblade enchanted for Disintegrate, and put a Reverse Gravity trap inside. Put an Antimagic Field trap outside the box.

Make a place inside the Microcosm to store your phylactery and get your Warforged to dream up the most powerful beings they can imagine to protect that.

Now you've pretty much proofed yourself against anything except a very determined Cheater with detailed knowledge of your defenses (try multiple high-CL Disjunction traps to deal with Cheaters, though very expensive). If they try to get the Warforged sustaining the Microcosm they'll run into an AMF that'll kill whatever they're using to survive while in the singularity. If they decide to go in through the Microcosm they'll encounter the nastiest beings a hundred or so Warforged can possibly dream up in billions of years and if they actually pull it off they'll have the fun of having time reset on them any way.

[Toliudar]

Don't most people assume that a destroyed lich reforms next to their phylactery? It would seem to me that putting it in an insanely inaccessble/dangerous/quintessenced place is just begging for the DM to mess with you.

The only time I've played an epic lich, I handed it to a campaign overdeity for safekeeping. Might as well make it explicit that the only way it's going to become an issue is through DM fiat.

[Eronai_Jantig]

This question has already been comprehensively answered. I forget the precise name of the trick, but it basically goes like this: you build your phylactery into the composite armor of the Warforged, do the save-game trick on said Warforged, then drop it in a vat of Quintessence at the bottom of a trap-infested dungeon and pile all the loot in the vat around it. When whoever is trying to kill/rob you goes to get it out, the spell you cast activates and returns time to the point just after you cast the spell, with you (and only you) having any memories of the timestream that just got erased.

At that point you hunt down the bastards that made you lose your saved game.

Thanks for helping me figure out my groundhogs day inspired session!

[Arcanist]

Don't most people assume that a destroyed lich reforms next to their phylactery? It would seem to me that putting it in an insanely inaccessble/dangerous/quintessenced place is just begging for the DM to mess with you.

Most people assume that they spawn next to the Phylactery but most people ignore it and just say that they spawn wherever the hell they want :smallannoyed: ...I'll set some ground rules for your "resurrection".