CoDzilla Vs The Tarresque!

[Vixsor Lumin]

I joined a challenge campaign recently. Were trying to kill the tarresque at Lvl 3. Needless to say I'm gonna need some help. I've decided to take on the role of cleric and (assuming we don't all die in one hit) keep everyone alive while doing my part to damage the beastie. We get free LA +5 and we can retrain up to 3 racial hit die into class levels, and a 42 point buy. One of our stats has to be at or below 8 after race and template considerations though.

I know about DMM and persist spell, but what are some nice tricks I can do to heal people, and what are some good templates I can use? Some advice on domains would be nice to. I think I'm going to have to be human to get DMM working by level 3 unless someone can find a way around that.

Please help me Optimizers of the Playground. Your my only hope.

[begooler]

Ghost template would be good, but there are many choices. You don't want to heal your teammates. You want them to not get damaged.

[demigodus]

Is this an optimized tarresque, or statted-as-written tarresque?

If your DM doesn't re-select its feats, it can't deal with flying. It can't hit incorporeal creatures. It has decent spot and listen (compared to the level 3 you guys are at), but invisibility could still be effective.

If you don't feel like going ghost as begooler suggested, and just laugh at how it can't hurt you, you could go a pixie. LA+4, you can fly, and greater invisibility at will. Calculate its max jump height, and stay out of range.

And don't bother healing your team mates. If you are attacked, you will likely die.

[NM020110]

See if you can take the dry lich template without going through walker in the waste. If I recall correctly, desiccation damage will bypass all of the tarrasque's defenses, though this is somewhat inefficient. It will also aid your surviveability greatly, and give you a dump stat in constitution, allowing you to focus more resources into other stats.

I will agree that ghost is probably the best way to go at it, though.

[Vixsor Lumin]

I'm going to go with ghost, since we already have a pixie and I'm not sure if I could get dry lich allowed. So, any advice on domains and ways to not let my teammates die in the first round? I don't think that not having a con score will satisfy the reqiurment of one score being under 8 though. But it let's me divide 42 points across 5 scores :smallsmile:

[demigodus]

The tarresque has a move speed of 20ft, so it can charge up to 40ft. It then has a reach of 20ft. The best way for your team to not die on round 1, is to make sure they start round one at least 65ft from the big T.

For a dump stat, int is an option, since you aren't likely to use many skills in this fight. Dex works too if you just accept that you aren't going first, and it doesn't matter since it can't hurt you.

[BladeofObliviom]

The tarresque has a move speed of 20ft, so it can charge up to 40ft. It then has a reach of 20ft. The best way for your team to not die on round 1, is to make sure they start round one at least 65ft from the big T.

Rush changes its speed to 150 ft. instead of 20 once per minute...

[Shadowknight12]

The problem here is that you can't permanently kill the Terrasque before the level where you can afford to purchase an NPC casting of Miracle (Wish has an XP cost, so it's more expensive). At level 3, you might be able to leave it unconscious, but it just won't stay dead.

So what I suggest is to take the Ghost template, take three levels of cleric, fill all your slots with Lesser Shivering Touch, calmly float up to the Terrasque and then touch it like you're a Terrasque molester.

Once you get it to Dex 0 (should take you anywhere from 3 to 16 castings, depending on how lucky you are with at d6; I recommend to buy a wand if you don't have enough spell slots), the creature regains ability damage at the normal rate, so you can keep it paralysed for quite a long time (until you can afford a casting of Miracle, at any rate).

Your only problem is Spell Resistance. You might want the wizard/sorcerer to help you out with Assay Spell Resistance or things that give you a substantial bonus to caster level checks to overcome SR.

[demigodus]

according to the srd, the tarrasque is immune to ability damage...


Rush changes its speed to 150 ft. instead of 20 once per minute...

Wasn't aware of that. Thank you

[Seerow]

Yeah even with 5 free LA, I don't think level 3 is high enough to make this feasible. (Unless you're getting WBL as 8th level characters since you are effectively 8 with your LA)

[Vixsor Lumin]

its immune to ability damage, not ability drain. draining touch is how i planned on handling the offensive side of htings. although shivering touch is a nice idea

[Shadowknight12]

according to the srd, the tarrasque is immune to ability damage...

I have this very bad habit of never reading a monster's stat block unless I'm actually running it or fighting it, instead reading only the text explanation of its abilities, so I definitely missed that.

Ah, well. You'll have to find an undead creature that's incorporeal and drains ability scores or levels (I recommend a spectre and allip combo) and rebuke it/control it.

[TheOOB]

It's completely impossible, killing the Tarresque requires wish or miracle, and short of a pun-pun style build thats not happening. That said, once you fly, it can do crap all to you, so it's easy to take out. The Tarresque is only dangerous to idiots who try to fight it in melee.

[NM020110]

Hmmm...I suppose that this would depend on how hard you're willing to try.

Were I to be going at it, my preferred set-up would be this:

1.) Disabler. The ghost, with its draining touch, is good for this. Being incorporeal, and thus able to attack freely, is a large bonus for this.

2.) Damager. A dry lich could bypass the tarrasque's defenses, but just about anything that can get big T into negatives will work.

3.) Wisher. A paladin with a high enough knowledge(the planes) check to know of Pazuzu is probably the best bet, here. Anyone that can get a wish or miracle through spell resistance should work, though.

Hopefully that will help. Going at the Tarrasque with a standard party is...unlikely to work, shall we say.

[Kazyan]

You're a healbot with +5 LA trying to not die to the Tarrasque?

Be a Vivacious creature.

[Vixsor Lumin]

well were not just doing it once, we are fighting one T at a time and then using that as a regular encounter and dividing exp up so were going to level a bit. the fluff is that we are immortal guardians and only wake up to fight the tarresque. the crunch of it is that we kill the tarresque, level up and fight a bigger and badder Big T each time. so any tricks we pull will be one time use. ghost has quite a bit of goodies and seems the best for long term play. i havent looked at vivacious yet, but i definitely will. so if anyone can help with spells readied, domains, and feats that would be great. for now im thinking Ghost Human Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge, Planning and Force domains. feats wise its:

1st:Extra Turning
Bonus:Extend Spell
Human:Persist Spell
3rd: DMM Persist

[7RED7]

It gets bigger and better? Better watch out for when it adapts spectral claws. :smallwink:

[Vixsor Lumin]

i have a feeling ill be seeing those in its second coming, because another player and i figured out how to take it out ourselves hahaha :smalltongue:

[NM020110]

You can probably get another iteration of disabling it with the ghost abilities by attacking from total cover, specifically the ground. It's slightly more risky, though.

Another trick that could probably put down the tarrasque once or twice would be to use the versatile spellcaster+elven generalist combination to cast gate. If you could persuade it to help, a solar should be more than a match for the tarrasque through at least one iteration...

[begooler]

I like the above method as the second trick once the bully starts being able to hit incorporeal folk.
You have to stay out of its reach at the end of your turn still. Even though the ground is going to give you 50% miss chance, that's still a 50% chance you die with every attack roll it makes.

You'll want something like spring attack, or a ranged attack that works through the ground. (The former seems easier to get to me.) At the end of your turn, you want as much solid ground between you and it as you can get.
If you are using some kind of missile, you'll want to be using an energy type that you're immune to, for when it comes back to hit you.

[Psyren]

Is 3 Cleric levels + 3 RHD retrained to cleric levels + 5 LA enough to get level 7 cleric casting?

If so, you can get Summon Undead IV, which IIRC gets you Allips, which means big T is catatonic and therefore not a threat.

[Tehnar]

Wasn't there a thread a while back that had 4 lvl 5 wizards armed with wands of extended acid arrow take out a Tarrasque?

[TheOOB]

Wasn't there a thread a while back that had 4 lvl 5 wizards armed with wands of extended acid arrow take out a Tarrasque?

except you know, they need wish. People keep missing this requirement. The Tarrasque is dangerous not because of how powerful it is, but because you typically need a CL 17+ full spellcaster to finish them off. Without that it's not that dangerous of a creature.

[Seerow]

except you know, they need wish. People keep missing this requirement. The Tarrasque is dangerous not because of how powerful it is, but because you typically need a CL 17+ full spellcaster to finish them off. Without that it's not that dangerous of a creature.

Yeah, even using WBL a scroll of wish costs 28,825 gp. For that to be less than half your WBL (usually rule of thumb for expensive items), you need to be level 11. If that's not an issue, you need to be level 9. If you're able to split the cost among a 4 man party, you can pull it off at level 5.

A part of level 3s can only scrounge up about 12 grand between them though. Not enough.

[Lord_Gareth]

Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu?

[DeusMortuusEst]

Don't see what the problem is, the party retreats, the ghost floats up and drains the Tarrasque of dex until it is defeated. Inform the village elders who proceed to use the living, immovable beast as a constant source of meat.

[Arranis Thelmos]

Don't see what the problem is, the party retreats, the ghost floats up and drains the Tarrasque of dex until it is defeated. Inform the village elders who proceed to use the living, immovable beast as a constant source of meat.

Tarrasques are like honey badgers, they just don't care. One little ghost isn't going to stop them. Tarrasques eat bowls of Chuck Norris for breakfast. :smallcool:

[7RED7]

What's the earliest possible level that you could shift into a honey badger?

[Kazyan]

What's the earliest possible level that you could shift into a honey badger?

A Bag of Tricks (Gray) is within a 3rd-level character's WBL. :smallamused:

[7RED7]

Well there you go. Now you're on even footing and you have a few extra party members to tip the balance. :smallbiggrin:

[Menteith]

Yeah, even using WBL a scroll of wish costs 28,825 gp. For that to be less than half your WBL (usually rule of thumb for expensive items), you need to be level 11. If that's not an issue, you need to be level 9. If you're able to split the cost among a 4 man party, you can pull it off at level 5.

A part of level 3s can only scrounge up about 12 grand between them though. Not enough.

Depending on how cheesy you want to go, that's enough for a Candle of Invocation. Which lets you win at D&D anyway.

[Man on Fire]

Can I ask semi-related question? Why are everybody treating Tarresque like some sort of ultimate ultra-badass? I ask seriously, I never had to deal with that thing, I know only it's giant Super T-Rex.

[Novawurmson]

Can I ask semi-related question? Why are everybody treating Tarresque like some sort of ultimate ultra-badass? I ask seriously, I never had to deal with that thing, I know only it's giant Super T-Rex.

See for yourself (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm).

It'd be pretty brutal against an under-optimized core-only party. It probably got its name from being one of the few CR 20 monsters in MM1 and some of its big numbers (+57 to attack isn't something most parties who only know how to stop attacks with AC can deal with).

[TheOOB]

Don't see what the problem is, the party retreats, the ghost floats up and drains the Tarrasque of dex until it is defeated. Inform the village elders who proceed to use the living, immovable beast as a constant source of meat.

Immune to ability damage.

The reputation of the Tarresque comes mainly from the lore, that it's an unstoppable eating machine that can destroy entire countries.

While it is powerful, it's actually a lot less dangerous than say a great wyrm on any color. Spells are better than attack rolls and all that. What makes it dangerous is a)it devotes itself entirely to destruction, and doesn't hold back, and b)it can only be killed by a wish or miracle spell.

A Great Red Wyrm can be dangerous, but given enough low and mid level people, say an army, they can be killed, and they will likely stop any rampage long before anyone raises an army agienst them. The Tarresque will continue on no matter the opposition, and even an army cannot kill it without a powerful spellcaster, which even a large kingdom may not have on call.

[Vixsor Lumin]

the ghost inflicts ability drain, which the tarresque isnt immune to, not ability damage. and the wich/miracle spell is whats making thins difficult now that ive got a way to kill it and not be killed by it. i dont know the Pazuzu trick, and a candle of invocation could work, but we need to get a bunch of money to get together first.

[DeusMortuusEst]

Why would you need to kill it? Once it's drained of dex it can't move, the challenge is over, you have defeated the beast. Encounter done.

[Arranis Thelmos]

Tarresque don't care. Tarresque doesn't give a ----. So what if it can't move? Tarresque doesn't care. Tarresque can do whatever they want, they're a big magical beastie. :smallcool:

But on a more serious note, part of the fear about killing it it that it involves a spell or item usually far beyond the reach of the party who is fighting it. Also, the next Tarresque that they fight in their game will probably be immune to whatever they do to the first one. And besides, if left there long enough won't it slowly regain it's dexterity? I think I remember reading that from somewhere, but I'm not sure...

[DeusMortuusEst]

But on a more serious note, part of the fear about killing it it that it involves a spell or item usually far beyond the reach of the party who is fighting it. Also, the next Tarresque that they fight in their game will probably be immune to whatever they do to the first one. And besides, if left there long enough won't it slowly regain it's dexterity? I think I remember reading that from somewhere, but I'm not sure...

Ability drain is permanent, so unless a Tarrasque-worshipping cleric passes by it won't move an inch for the rest of its life. If the ghost wants to it can drain it of str instead, that should cause it to suffocate, as it can't breathe any more.

[Traab]

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

So... is this thing intelligent? I mean, to have the intellect to grab its severed limb and hold onto it so itll reattach instead of just waiting a couple minutes for it to regrow. With an int score of 3, I would think it wouldnt have the intelligence to do that. It would be more likely to see a severed limb and think, "snack!" then eat its own arm rather than try to hold it to the stump so it sticks.

[sreservoir]

more efficient to use ghost savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a). four levels of it ought to be sufficient -- the fifth is pretty much dead; the extra +2 to things just isn't worth a LA.

instead, take evolved undead. this gets you a bit of fast healing just in case (although you'll probably be dead if you get hit even once), and a 1/day SLA. the SLA is ... quite limited, given that you'll have few HD, but eh, it's better than the last level of ghost. draconic isn't too bad, either. but the point here is to fill up with better templates. so.

[demigodus]

So... is this thing intelligent? I mean, to have the intellect to grab its severed limb and hold onto it so itll reattach instead of just waiting a couple minutes for it to regrow. With an int score of 3, I would think it wouldnt have the intelligence to do that. It would be more likely to see a severed limb and think, "snack!" then eat its own arm rather than try to hold it to the stump so it sticks.

int 3 puts it at smarter than any animal. Animals can be pretty clever...

[Vixsor Lumin]

still a normal intelligence score is around 10 right? i think i saw somewhere that you take the IQ and divide by 10, its been awhile but if thats accurate that would put me at about 10.9 (if im remembering right, its been a few years :smalltongue:) 3 is far below a 10 or 11

[TuggyNE]

still a normal intelligence score is around 10 right? i think i saw somewhere that you take the IQ and divide by 10, its been awhile but if thats accurate that would put me at about 10.9 (if im remembering right, its been a few years :smalltongue:) 3 is far below a 10 or 11

Well, let's put it this way: the dullest, stupidest person you can imagine being a PC is Int 3 (due to the requirement for PCs to be at least Int 3).

[Little Brother]

Naenhoon Illumian Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard 2

Earth Sense, earth Spell, and heighten.

Level 3 grab Extra Slot. Just use templates for high CHA, and problem solved, you have 9th level spells(Plus the domain spells at every level, due to Text v table). Grab the right domains, and laugh maniacally as you crush the tarrasque horribly and Miracle it dead with your standard 9th slot. Use your huge amounts of XP to get Extra Slot at 6th level, for the Wizard level, and then murder everything with your double 9s. Or just Embrace/Shun Scribe Scroll for double 9s at level 2.

Either way, screwed Tarrasque. Your Miracle(s, if you take Luck domain and/or have huge Wis) can replicate Extend Persist buffs, so you don't have to worry about that. I would recommend Extend Persist Pact of Return, keyed on being horribly butchered by the Tarrasque or its allies, just in case.

[Rubik]

Tarrasques eat bowels of Chuck Norris for breakfast. :smallcool:FTFY.

Srsly

[Vixsor Lumin]

Naenhoon Illumian Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard 2

Earth Sense, earth Spell, and heighten.

Level 3 grab Extra Slot. Just use templates for high CHA, and problem solved, you have 9th level spells(Plus the domain spells at every level, due to Text v table). Grab the right domains, and laugh maniacally as you crush the tarrasque horribly and Miracle it dead with your standard 9th slot. Use your huge amounts of XP to get Extra Slot at 6th level, for the Wizard level, and then murder everything with your double 9s. Or just Embrace/Shun Scribe Scroll for double 9s at level 2.

Either way, screwed Tarrasque. Your Miracle(s, if you take Luck domain and/or have huge Wis) can replicate Extend Persist buffs, so you don't have to worry about that. I would recommend Extend Persist Pact of Return, keyed on being horribly butchered by the Tarrasque or its allies, just in case.wait... can you explain this trick to me? I could maybe see how it works, but all I'm coming up with is is choosing a domain with wish or miracle and hightening a spell up to 9th, then using spontaneus domain to cast it. I didn't check spontaneus domains text before I posted this, so even that might not work.

Basically, I'm not a TO kinda guy but ^^^ that up there seems well worth knowing

[Menteith]

Naenhoon allows you to use Turn Attempts to power Metamagic, in this case Heighten Spell. Heighten Spell actually increases the level of the spell. Earth Spell lets Heighten a spell to a 10th level slot. This allows you to use Extra Slot to gain a 9th level spell slot. You need a high Cha to give you the Turn Undead attempts needed to power Naenhoon --> Heighten.

I could be wrong about it though. It's late and my brain not work think good now

[Little Brother]

wait... can you explain this trick to me? I could maybe see how it works, but all I'm coming up with is is choosing a domain with wish or miracle and hightening a spell up to 9th, then using spontaneus domain to cast it. I didn't check spontaneus domains text before I posted this, so even that might not work.

Basically, I'm not a TO kinda guy but ^^^ that up there seems well worth knowingOkay, basically Naenhoon Illumians get a sorta DMM as a racial trait, a limited number of times a day(And can be applied to arcane spells).

So, what you do is use that to be able to heighten a spell to 9th level, which Earth Spell bumps to 10, which means you can cast 10th level spells, which lets you take 9th level slot with Extra Slot.

Now, read the Domain casting rules of the Cleric. You get a slot for every level you can cast, and you know all Cleric spells. This means you can put any level of Cleric spell in your 9th level slot, so you can cast any level of spell, meaning you get a domain slot at every level, and one 9th level slot.

You then get a 9th level arcane slot, which isn't as useful, because it's only one slot, but still, a 9th level arcane slot. Don't tell me you can't abuse that.

EDIT: Swordsage'd due to stupid Error 503 garbage. These forums hate me.

But, yes, that is correct.

[Vixsor Lumin]

But doesn't heighten spell cap out at 9th level spells? this trick works to get an 8th level slot from what i can tell but the very first sentance of highten spell says


A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level).

[Little Brother]

But doesn't heighten spell cap out at 9th level spells? this trick works to get an 8th level slot from what i can tell but the very first sentance of highten spell saysEarth Spell, from Races of Stone solves this.

[Vixsor Lumin]

gotcha, so just to get the order of things right:

1. play a Naenhoon
2. take heighten spell, earth power, and earth spell
2.5. shout and have my hair turn blonde while i raise my power level
3. murderize the tarresque
4. with shiny levels take the extra slot feat witch gives me a shiny new 9th level slot
5. profit?

[Little Brother]

gotcha, so just to get the order of things right:

1. play a Naenhoon
2. take heighten spell, earth power, and earth spell
2.5. shout and have my hair turn blonde while i raise my power level
3. murderize the tarresque
4. with shiny levels take the extra slot feat witch gives me a shiny new 9th level slot
5. profit?Well, you said you start at level 3, so with flaws you can get Cleric 9s when you start.

You get the shiny arcane slot when the Tarrasque dies.

But, basically, yep. Once you have 9s, I'm pretty sure you can figure out how to kill the Big T. CL boosts would help, though(And, among other things, you do have Consumptive Field).

[Vixsor Lumin]

alright i now have two strategies for winning :smallbiggrin: too bad the DM backed out :smallfrown: