Leveling up in mmorpgs

[Togath]

So why do some people like leveling up alts from level one, in games where once you get to a certain point you can start alts higher?
And why do some people get angry in mmos if you try to use a 1 use item that grants xp(in mmos where such a thing exists, such as the stone of xp in ddo) to level them up?
edit; also I feel I should mention; I'm talking about cases where not only is there no disadvantage to starting higher, you also get gear appropriate to your level automatically.

[Starwulf]

So why do some people like leveling up alts from level one, in games where once you get to a certain point you can start alts higher?
And why do some people get angry in mmos if you try to use a 1 use item that grants xp(in mmos where such a thing exists, such as the stone of xp in ddo) to level them up?
edit; also I feel I should mention; I'm talking about cases where not only is there no disadvantage to starting higher, you also get gear appropriate to your level automatically.

I have to admit, I've never heard of any system like this. I mean, FFXI lets you carry over small advantages when you start a new "job" on the same character, from things called "merits", but you still have to fully level up the new "Job" from level 1 to 99. What game allows you to start a new character at an automatically higher level?

My take on it, is "half the fun, is in the leveling itself", so why would I deprive myself of the adventure and fun of leveling a new character from 1 to whatever by automatically starting at whatever higher level you could? Would eliminate part of the game.

[Ogremindes]

So why do some people like leveling up alts from level one, in games where once you get to a certain point you can start alts higher?

For me the levelling game -is- the game, so if I'm interested in playing a character I'm not inclined to skip ahead.

[Togath]

the game in question is ddo, and the main problem being that leveling up usually means repeating a small number of quests...over and over and over, but starting at level 4(gain once you reach 1000 favour points) you can start with themed dungeon chains, which are slightly more interesting, and starting at level 7(gained from 3000 favour points) you can start doing dungeon chains that have a bit more variety
edit; if ddo was like wow, and I could just go level up in a different area i wouldn't mind so much, but in ddo for the first 4 levels you pretty much have to do the same quests, and for the first 7 you may still need to repeat a few.

edit2: sorry about having posted this thread, i just got really frustrated that my guild changed it's plan from level up, and then start doing high to mid level stuff, to, level up to 5 or 8, then delete character and start over with same character, they've been doing so for the last week, in order to try to level up the guild, but, if they just went through a few quests on the alt, they would gain the same amount of guild xp if not more, at least from my experience.
And I'm playing on the smallest server, so there aren't many other places i could go without having to start from scratch myself.

edit3; also, i feel i should mention, I do like leveling up in some games, but it gets monotinous at low levels in games such as ddo.

[factotum]

Jumping in at a higher level gives you less opportunity to learn how to play your class, and I think the practice acquired a bad reputation from people in WoW who clearly paid someone to level a character for them and had no clue how to play the character properly. At least if someone's been there from level 1 upwards they ought to have a clue or two.

[Togath]

aye, that's probably where jumping in at a high(ish) level got a bad name from, though it is frustrating for it to have it even in game where it's supported by the mechanics(also ddo in particular has a problem in that, several classes are nearly impossible to solo with, at least until around level 4 or 5[out of twenty, and each "level" is split into 5 "mini" levels{each taking about the amount of time as a normal one in an mmo}], do to have either low hp or weak attacks).

[The Succubus]

In fairness, I ran Korgoth Island (the DDO starting area) so many times I felt like screaming when I had to start a new character. Bypassing that horrifically linear grind is definitely a step up.

[T.G. Oskar]

One thing is to have the option to get a few levels up if you don't particularly want to grind the new area (Korthos, by the way; it's not so bad, as it's probably the only place even casual gamers can pretty much memorize), but the Stone is quite ridiculous.

To explain further: the Stone of Experience is a 1-use item that allows you to instantly reach level 16, which is necessary for some of the quests relative to the new expansion pack. To use it, you (or a pal) must have bought one of the expansion bundles for Menace of the Underdark, then use it on a character that's level 8. To compare: an 8th level character is essentially a 40th level character in other MMOs (WoW, for example), whereas a level 16th character would be the equivalent of a 80th level character.

Herein lies the problem. Recently, the company that develops the game (Turbine) offered for sale an option that allows to create characters from 7th level (the called "Veteran Status" option, 2nd Tier; the first allows you to make 4th level characters and can be gained with enough favor, which allows you to unlock stuff in-game while playing "free"), which would be the equivalent of a 35th level character. A 4th level character is not so troubling (counts as a 20th level character, which most people can reach pretty easily, not to mention it makes re-leveling your character after making a True Reincarnation easier), but a 7th level is a tad too high.

Now, imagine: someone who does pretty fast leveling can reach level 16 in a matter of days; with this option, it can reach level 16 in a matter of minutes. You also get level-appropriate equipment, but if you do True Reincarnation (as creating a new character, but you get increases your starting stats, nets you a free bonus based on your earlier class and you keep all of the stuff from your earlier class, except you take more to level up), you get all the stuff from your earlier character, so you get equipment which ranges from decent (any item that has a minimum level of 16) to absurd (Greensteel items, which are customizable and have a minimum level of 14 or less).

Then, stack up the fact that you can get an item that allows you to gain MORE XP (a 30% bonus, actually) PERMANENTLY, and you might figure that there's no point at experiencing the game because you'll be straight up into the high-level adventures and close to end-game real, real fast.

Now, the biggest insult (at least for me) is that you get all of that through shelling money, in a game that's touted to be Free to Play. Sure, I don't oppose microtransactions, and since it's not THAT difficult to slowly unlock the game through grinding (every 100 favor, you get 25 points; stuff costs nearly 30-70 times that, but with some practice you can get favor faster, and unlocking stuff lets you earn even MORE favor), but it hints of "pay to win"; essentially, pay a lot of money, then get stuff that makes playing ridiculous. The Stone of Experience caters only to two people: those who have a huge wallet, and the Elite who'd find grinding one more class to get the coveted Completionist bonus (basically +2 to all stats and bragging rights) a veritable chore, let alone do that twice (one to get the bonus, another to get the build you want to get). Most mortals won't have the luck to get to have the Stone used on themselves, because levels 6-10 are pretty difficult (particularly if you're a F2P or Premium player), so being level 8 can be difficult, and because loyalties are more important than teaching newbies how to play.

In short: it doesn't work as intended, unless you shell a lot of money or are a hardcore gamer.

[Castaras]

If it's more fun to start at higher level and skip levels, then the game is doing it wrong.

When I was playing Anarchy Online, half of the people would go for leveling up as quick as possible. The other half (me included) spent ages leveling up from level 1 to enjoy the game, do interesting things, explore, etc. I like leveling alts, it gives me an alternative to doing high level and stuff, can try different routes for the game (WoW, for instance, did it quite well in that there were many areas for each level you could go to), and try new things. Or just useful for when you're getting angry at the rage and the pvp and the loot grinding to go back to square 1 on a new character and try everything again.

[Craft (Cheese)]

And why do some people get angry in mmos if you try to use a 1 use item that grants xp(in mmos where such a thing exists, such as the stone of xp in ddo) to level them up?

I think I can answer this question: Having a max-level character is important to many players because it represents their patience, strong work ethic, and diligence. Having a better character because you put more work into it *is* the game, and this is what a lot of players find fun about the game.

Now, the problem with xp-granting items is that they allow money to short-circuit this work ethic requirement. This makes players who pride themselves on their hamstering talent very upset, because it basically *negates* the impact of their superior work ethic on how the game plays out.

Imagine this: You play a competitive First Person Shooter, except there's a twist. The game developers sell hours of invincibility to players at $10 a pop. You pay $100, and your next 10 hours of play have you completely immune to harm.

This is a really really stupid game design because it makes the game totally meaningless. It doesn't matter how much better at shooters you are, you'll never, ever win against someone who's shelled out more money than you. Furthermore, even play between two players who've shelled out is meaningless since the game can't be resolved.


Note: This relies on the assumption of the MMO being primarily a competitive PvP game based around whoever has the higher-level character/better gear, with PvE content being solely included in the game as a place to farm. Now, this isn't the only appeal an MMO could possibly have, but it is the appeal of the people who hate loot resets and things like the Stone of Experience; However, loot resets and xp-boosters themselves are intended to cater to other groups who view the MMO as a single-player experience where loot doesn't matter and you can just hang out with your friends at the same time. The game design problem stems from trying to please multiple groups at once who have mutually exclusive desires.

[Togath]

Another thing to note about the specific example I'm talking about is that the xp granting item can only be used on one character per server per account, and the game in question is very gear dependent, and the item doesn't really boost your gear much(boosts it to the minimum you should have had at level 8[if your a cleric anyway, most other classes don't gain as much of a benefit from them, to the point you may have trouble with level 10 dungeons on normal difficulty], and boosts you to level 16[leaving 4 level before the current level cap, or 20 levels in most other mmos])
In addition the game also lacks any pvp at all, other then a small pit big enough to duel someone, and it lacks any rewards for pvp.
Another problem that I've encountered is that very few mmos decide to make themselves with world of warcraft style open worlds, and some don't even give you multiple zone for each level(at least until around mid levels).
the main attraction I have to the mmo that made me start this thread(dungeons and dragon online) is that it is entirely dungeons, at least until around level 10, where a few "wilderness" areas become available, outside of dungeons you're in a single city(it does have several districts, but it is sometimes crouded on higher population servers).
edit; also I do agree that a game should be interesting at low levels, both wow and eq are fairly good at that aspect, and guild wars 2 looks like it will be good at that as well(in addidtion to being open world), but ddo has some trouble with it.