[3.X] Weirdest entry reqs?

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

I was just wondering, what are some of the weirdest entry reqs you've seen for PrCs? Things like BAB, skill ranks, alignment, spellcasting, sub-par feats etc are all fairly normal, but there are a few genuinely bizarre ones.

I'll start with two of my perennial favourites:


Green Star Adept (CArc): must chow down on a bunch of pseudo magical metal *nom nom nom*
Eunuch Warlock (OA): must have *parts* removed

[Malimar]

Eunuch Warlock (OA): must have *parts* removed

Almost as interesting as the part where it requires parts to be removed: I've been told that Eunuch Warlock is, in fact, the only class in all of official 3.x that requires you to be a specific sex or gender at all. (I don't know whether that's actually accurate, but I don't recall having seen any others.)

Unfortunately, I can't think of (m)any other interesting ones offhand. Eye of Gruumsh requires you to poke an eye out?

Blessed of Tem-Et-Nu is a feat, not a prestige class, and the ridiculous thing is an ex-rule, not a prerequisite, but it does involve being bitten by a magic hippopotamus, which is excellent.

[Mithril Leaf]

Well, can you blame such stringent entry requirements? It's not every day you can unlock power such as that granted by Blessed of Tem-Et-Nu.

[Thurbane]

Almost as interesting as the part where it requires parts to be removed: I've been told that Eunuch Warlock is, in fact, the only class in all of official 3.x that requires you to be a specific sex or gender at all. (I don't know whether that's actually accurate, but I don't recall having seen any others.)
I can think of another off the top of my head: the Swanmay (BoED) requires you to be female.

Unfortunately, I can't think of (m)any other interesting ones offhand. Eye of Gruumsh requires you to poke an eye out?
That definitely qualifies as weird! :smallbiggrin:

[Aegis013]

Disciple of Mammon (Book of Vile Darkness)
Special: The character must go through a disgusting and humiliating sexual ritual and betray her closest friend to an evil end before she can properly serve her new master.

That's pretty weird. Certainly not something I would want any player to ask me if they could do to get that prestige class.

[Morithias]

I've been told that Eunuch Warlock is, in fact, the only class in all of official 3.x that requires you to be a specific sex or gender at all.

Thrall of Malachant, Swanmey, Maiden of Pain, Hathran, and I think theres also another male only class, thrall of the demon prince of giants, but I don't remember his name.

Probably the weirdest I've ever seen is...well...the thrall of malachant. Must betray and kill a loved one.

Best friend is one thing, but your lover?

Edit: found more of them, Yathrinshee, and Beloved of Valarian.

[Ravens_cry]

In Core, I would say the Dwarven Defender.
You are supposed to be a rock AND a hard place.
Movement works against you.
The very mountains themselves would sooner pass to the side than you.
And one of the entry requirements is . . . Dodge?:smallconfused:

[Ingus]

Disciple of Mammon (Book of Vile Darkness)
Special: The character must go through a disgusting and humiliating sexual ritual and betray her closest friend to an evil end before she can properly serve her new master.

It could be worst. Think it as simultaneous.


In Core, I would say the Dwarven Defender.
You are supposed to be a rock AND a hard place.
Movement works against you.
The very mountains themselves would sooner pass to the side than you.
And one of the entry requirements is . . . Dodge?:smallconfused:

:smallbiggrin:

If I remenber correctly, Acolyte of the Skin PrC requires you to make a peaceful contact with an outsider and then butcher her and wear her skin
Hey buddy, what's up to Baator. Is still Glasya b...ing around, that spoiled brat? Stab stab stab griiitch Oh thank you buddy, you wear really good on me

[sonofzeal]

If I remenber correctly, Acolyte of the Skin PrC requires you to make a peaceful contact with an outsider and then butcher her and wear her skin
Hey buddy, what's up to Baator. Is still Glasya b...ing around, that spoiled brat? Stab stab stab griiitch Oh thank you buddy, you wear really good on me
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/i-see-what-you-did-there.png

[The Glyphstone]

The Invisible Blade requiring Point Blank Shot and, I think, Far Shot, but that's a well-known relic of a late stage design error that was never fixed.

[sonofzeal]

The Invisible Blade requiring Point Blank Shot and, I think, Far Shot, but that's a well-known relic of a late stage design error that was never fixed.
It's also not even that bad. Those two feats are, at very least, better on a sneak-attacking dagger thrower than they are on a traditional archer. Doubling range increments means more when your increment is 10 than when it's 110, and since Sneak Attack is limited to 30' anyway, PBS is boosting you right in your ideal range. It'd be nice if the PrC actually gave something for dagger throwing, but most of what it does give you works equally well in melee as at range, so I'm not going to complain. It's hardly the worst feat tax I've seen.

[NeoSeraphi]

Incantatrix, from Player's Guide to Faerun. You must specialize in abjuration and ban another school other than divination entirely in order to get in, even if you are a sorcerer or a bard or a duskblade. :smallconfused:

Though that could be pretty easy, if you think about it. I don't believe you're actually required to be able to cast any abjuration spells (hence the weirdness), so you get in as a dread necromancer and ban illusions.

Oh, and blood magus, from Complete Arcane. In order to get into blood magus, you have to have died (when it's a PrC for mid-level full arcane casters). At that level, it's more than likely that a rez cost you a level. So it's an unfortunate (and weird) prerequisite.

Oh, and hey, what about Risen Martyr? A class you can only take while you're dead. Not "must have died". Must be dead. Crazy.

[Pilo]

Ruathar (RotW): require you to help an elf or elven community.

[Telonius]

Duelist: 3 ranks in Perform. If I were ever to actually make a duelist, I would put the ranks in Perform (Banjo).

Beloved of Valarian: must meditate at a druid’s grove and fast until she
saves the life of an animal in danger. Because if you're looking for a place where animals are going to be in danger, the first thing that pops into your head is, "Druid's grove!"

Blood Magus: must have been killed, then returned to life. (Probably one of the harshest prereqs I know of).

[Fitz10019]

Whisperknife (RotW) is all about throwing knives, all about RANGED abilities. One of it's prereqs is Weapon Finesse, which is only applicable in melee. Sorry, maybe that's more annoying than weird.

[Cespenar]

"Must be chosen by existing drunken masters and survive a night of revelry among them without being incarcerated, poisoned, or extraordinarily embarrassed."

[AntiTrust]

Dungeon Lord (Dungeonscape): Must be an aberration, dragon, fey, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, outsider, or undead. Alternatively,
humanoids of the goblinoid and kobold subtype can enter
this class.

Because no matter how much you love your dungeon BBEG human villain, you'll never know your dungeon better than a goblin knows his.

[Telonius]

Emissary of Barachiel: all about being a herald, requires 15 charisma, 15 intelligence, and Words of Creation ... and a Lawful Good alignment.
:elan: Aww. :smallfrown:

[Feytalist]

Dungeon Delver has: "Must survive a cave-in."

Stormlord (I think) has: "Must have been hit by lightning." Which is technically easy if you just ask your wizard buddy to hit you up with a lightning bolt.

[NeoSeraphi]

"Must be chosen by existing drunken masters and survive a night of revelry among them without being incarcerated, poisoned, or extraordinarily embarrassed."

Yeah, if by "weirdest" you mean "most awesome". :smallamused:

[Killer Angel]

Blood Magus: must have been killed, then returned to life. (Probably one of the harshest prereqs I know of).

Au contraire! it's very easy to qualify for it, when you're an adventurer... :smalltongue:

[Thurbane]

"Must be chosen by existing drunken masters and survive a night of revelry among them without being incarcerated, poisoned, or extraordinarily embarrassed."
On my regular Saturday night booze-ups, I can only guarantee any two of those three! :smallwink:

Ruathar (RotW): require you to help an elf or elven community.
I can see this leading to hilarious RP scenarios, rendering aid to random elves who neither require nor want your assistance. :smallamused:

Because no matter how much you love your dungeon BBEG human villain, you'll never know your dungeon better than a goblin knows his.
Hey, goblinoids get so little love from WotC, I'd let them have that one. :smallbiggrin:

[Essence_of_War]

The Ravager requires you to survive a gang-beating from 6-16 people for 3-10 rounds. Oh and they're shooting to kill.

Then you have to sacrifice a human to Erythnul, and get repulsive tattoos on your face.

And for all this, you get a bunch of marginal per day abilities. Where do I sign up?

Edit:

One weird one that I actually think is kind of cool, is the Hunter of the Dead's "Scar of Unlife". They have to have died, or have levels or abilities drained by negative energy. It's allowed to be offset later, but I think it's kind of neat. mediocre PrC, but kind of neat requirement :smallsmile:

[Little Brother]

Runescarred Berserker requires you to be scarred up with magic runes before you get the ability to scar yourself up with magic runes.

The Assassin, by one interpretation, requires you to go out and randomly butcher someone. This is the cold, calculating killer PrC... Yeah...

Cryokinetisist requires psionics. Psionics which have precisely nothing to do with the class.

Frost Mage requires you spend 24 hours stark naked out in the middle of a blizzard.

Not exactly a PrC, but the epic feat Morpheme Savant requires Baleful Utterance. Did I mention that Baleful Utterance kills you?

[Salanmander]

Ur-Priest is pretty weird: Must NOT be able to cast any divine spells.

Similarly strange is Survivor: if I recall correctly their highest base save must be +0.

(Strange just because they require a sufficiently incapable character, instead of a sufficiently capable one.)

[NeoSeraphi]

Not exactly a PrC, but the epic feat Morpheme Savant requires Baleful Utterance. Did I mention that Baleful Utterance kills you?

As a lover of theurges, I am surprised you feel that you would ever get epic-level spellcasting without having a contingent true resurrection placed on yourself at all times. :smallamused:

The Warshaper PrC requires you to be able to change your shape, though it does not allow Alternate Form to qualify, for some weird reason. If you're a changeling who just shifts form from albino mini-doppelganger to human, you're good! If you're a wizard who polymorphs into a wolf, you're also good! If you're a druid that wild shapes into a wolf, you're good! But if you're a vampire that changes your shape into a wolf, no. :smallconfused:

[The Glyphstone]

Ur-Priest is pretty weird: Must NOT be able to cast any divine spells.

Similarly strange is Survivor: if I recall correctly their highest base save must be +0.

(Strange just because they require a sufficiently incapable character, instead of a sufficiently capable one.)

Close. Your highest save has to be lower than your character level. If it was +0, only a Commoner could take it and only before level 3.

[Duke of URL]

No love for the Pale Master? Spend 3 days locked in with an undead creature, friendly or not.

[Little Brother]

As a lover of theurges, I am surprised you feel that you would ever get epic-level spellcasting without having a contingent true resurrection placed on yourself at all times. :smallamused:I don't. I just think it would be dumb to waste one on a warlock casting Shatter. I mean, some spells are worth dying for. Shatter? Not on the list.

Disciple of Ashardalon requires you to have your still beating heart cut up.

Dragon Ascendant needs both Lightning Reflexes(Really?), and to eat all of its treasure. Why? Just cuz, that's why.

Hexer: Lightning Bolt as a divine spell. Only divine class that gets it? Adept. And the easiest entry? Wizard. Yeah...

[NeoSeraphi]

Hexer: Lightning Bolt as a divine spell. Only divine class that gets it? Adept. And the easiest entry? Wizard. Yeah...

:smallconfused: You can't sit there and tell me there isn't a domain that grants lightning bolt. I think at least the Storm Domain does.

[Duke of URL]

:smallconfused: You can't sit there and tell me there isn't a domain that grants lightning bolt. I think at least the Storm Domain does.

Plus, if any divine class has it, it's an Archivist spell.

[Little Brother]

:smallconfused: You can't sit there and tell me there isn't a domain that grants lightning bolt. I think at least the Storm Domain does.Not in the Spell Compendium, and Complete Divine.

Storm Domain consists of Entropic Shield, Gust of Wind, Call Lightning, Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, Summon Monster 6, Control Weather, Whirlwind, and Storm of Vengeance

Weather Domain doesn't have it either, nor does the Windstorm domain. Call Lighting in all of them.

As far as I can tell, it's arcane-only, except the Adept.

[Essence_of_War]

You'd be incorrect :smallsmile:

Storm gets call lightning but not lightning bolt.

[sonofzeal]

:smallconfused: You can't sit there and tell me there isn't a domain that grants lightning bolt. I think at least the Storm Domain does.
Adept 3, Arcivist 3 (if they can find an Adept with it), Shujenga 4, Sor/Wiz 3, Warmage 3.

Not listed on any domains in the archive I use, which is usually pretty reliable.

[Answerer]

I don't. I just think it would be dumb to waste one on a warlock casting Shatter. I mean, some spells are worth dying for. Shatter? Not on the list.
At-will Shatter is pretty awesome.

Also, if by "Baleful Utterance kills you" you're referring to the thing about it being Dark Speech, the argument for that is ridiculously weak.

[Essence_of_War]

You'd be incorrect :smallsmile:

Storm gets call lightning but not lightning bolt.

[Amoren]

I like the Dragon Ascendent from Draconomicon, which requires a true dragon to consume its ENTIRE hoard of treasure totaling at least 100,000gp. Considering how ancient and powerful a dragon you have to be to qualify for this class, prepare to ascend to a god as a bloated, fat arse drake which chinks with the sound of gold upon gold whenever it walks. Or, ya know, dying from suffocation/eating too much.

[Azernak0]

Generally, any class that requires you to make peaceful contact with a summoned creature. Like the Blackguard.

"Who DARES summon the great Grath'jkar! I will crush your bones!"
"Hi, he summoned you. I want you to like me so I can be this thing that I don't really have a concept of."
"..."

There is also Animal Heart Adept. The entire point of the class is to get your own companions that never leave you. To get into the class? You need to spend a week alone in a dungeon.

I think Risen Martyr wins though:
The character must have suffered martyrdom and must not have been returned to life. As a special
feature of this prestige class, the character rises with the abilities
of a 0-level risen martyr added to the character’s previous abilities.
When the character earns enough experience points to
advance another level, he must become a 1st-level risen martyr.

So, in order to take this class, you have to be killed in a completely selfless manner, you can't be resurrected, and you needed to already meet the requirements? Ohhh boy!

[Little Brother]

Whoa, quintuple post by zeal, triple post by me. What's up with the forums today?

Storm Disciple requires Know:Religion. Wut?

[StreamOfTheSky]

For the divine lighting bolt...

There was a dragon mag feat, iirc (I saw it in crystalkeep) that let you reconfigure your domain spells to others of your choice, as long as they fit within that domain's themes/confines, which the feat provided. So you could use that to do it.

But that's reaching pretty hard just to make a PrC work...

[Little Brother]

At-will Shatter is pretty awesome.

Also, if by "Baleful Utterance kills you" you're referring to the thing about it being Dark Speech, the argument for that is ridiculously weak.It specifically states its Dark Speech. It does not specifically train you to survive Dark Speech. Pretty clear-cut.

[nedz]

Its debatable whether its legal, but Extra Spell [Lightning Bolt] might let you qualify.

Divine Bard into Sublime Chord

[Little Brother]

Its debatable whether its legal, but Extra Spell [Lightning Bolt] might let you qualify.Nope. Extra Spell keeps you stuck on the same list. That's why it sucks.

Divine Bard into Sublime ChordNope. Sublime Chord requires third level arcane spells.

Beyond Archivist and Adept, weaseling as wizard(Or other arcane caster, but really, wizard) is the only way to do it.

[Ingus]

Blood Magus: must have been killed, then returned to life. (Probably one of the harshest prereqs I know of).

I mean... must have been killed fullstop would be the prereq of the zombie Prc :p


"Must be chosen by existing drunken masters and survive a night of revelry among them without being incarcerated, poisoned, or extraordinarily embarrassed."

I actually entered that PrC in-game. Fun story


Dungeon Delver has: "Must survive a cave-in."

Stormlord (I think) has: "Must have been hit by lightning." Which is technically easy if you just ask your wizard buddy to hit you up with a lightning bolt.

If those go bad, you can still be an excellent blood magus :smallbiggrin:


No love for the Pale Master? Spend 3 days locked in with an undead creature, friendly or not.

Hey man, wanna play Scrabble?

Also, I love this thread

[NeoSeraphi]

Hey man, wanna play Scrabble?

Also, I love this thread

I've played Zombie ScrabbleTM before. Tons of fun. You get awesome words like RAIN and BARS and NABS. I don't know why, but the only letters that came in the box were A, B, I, R, N, and S. :smallamused:

[Urpriest]

The Lightning Bolt prereq is mostly doing what it's supposed to do, since it's intended as an Adept-only class. It is a rather weird choice though, given that nothing about the class has anything to do with lightning. You'd think that some other Adept-only spell would make a much more sensible choice.

Eunuch Warlock has already been mentioned, and is awesome. The 3.5 update actually makes it somewhat decent, too.

Most of the Savage Species PrCs have really really tough prereqs. If you interpret the "Always" line in alignments to actually mean always then there are almost no creatures that can qualify for Sybil, especially if you interpret "Neutral" to mean true neutral.

[Man on Fire]

Ruathar (RotW): require you to help an elf or elven community.

What a twisted, insane mind could have come up with such terrible, disgusting idea?!



Dungeon Lord (Dungeonscape): Must be an aberration, dragon, fey, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, outsider, or undead. Alternatively,
humanoids of the goblinoid and kobold subtype can enter
this class.

Because no matter how much you love your dungeon BBEG human villain, you'll never know your dungeon better than a goblin knows his.

That's because Goblins are the best race and shouldn't be ruled over by those pathetic, weak humans.

[togapika]

What about that initiate sensate whatever that had more requirements the higher you went in the PRC?

[NeoSeraphi]

What about that initiate sensate whatever that had more requirements the higher you went in the PRC?

I have never heard of this PrC, but it probably isn't any worse than the Green Star Adept, which actually requires you to spend gp each time you level up, unless you somehow manage to find this "rare precious metal" for free in the wild somewhere. (Even then, it's loot you could have otherwise sold).

[togapika]

Ardent Dilettante from the planar handbook is what it was called

It starts out requiring 1 skill at 8 ranks and any other 5 skills at 1 rank with a small rp requirement

And then 10th level requires: Perform 8 ranks, 1 Strength, dex, con, and int or wis based skill at 5 ranks each (1str, 1dex, 1con, 1int or wis)
Proficiency with at least four martial weapons
and one exotic weapon.
Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells and 1st-level
divine spells.
Also have to have visited 6 different planes and died and come back (Life or unlife)

[Answerer]

It specifically states its Dark Speech. It does not specifically train you to survive Dark Speech. Pretty clear-cut.
It states exactly what it does, and uses Dark Speech for fluff. It does not include any of the usual effects of Dark Speech as part of its effect, and thereby it does not have them and knowledge of the invocation must include knowledge of how to use it safely.

[sonofzeal]

Whoa, quintuple post by zeal, triple post by me. What's up with the forums today?
Pentuple, actually. Sad thing was, I was checking the thread every couple of attempts to see if it went through or not, and nothing was showing up even after I refreshed. Gah!

[Eldan]

No love for the Pale Master? Spend 3 days locked in with an undead creature, friendly or not.

Get Lich-loved.

Problem solved!

[Jack_Simth]

Beloved of Valarian: must meditate at a druid’s grove and fast until she
saves the life of an animal in danger. Because if you're looking for a place where animals are going to be in danger, the first thing that pops into your head is, "Druid's grove!"Actually, yes, it's pretty easy. Set a rabbit down in front of you, keep it there, wait for a wolf to come by. Lots of Druids have wolves accompany them.

[Venger]

Ur-Priest is pretty weird: Must NOT be able to cast any divine spells.

Similarly strange is Survivor: if I recall correctly their highest base save must be +0.

(Strange just because they require a sufficiently incapable character, instead of a sufficiently capable one.)

survivor actually requires your highest base save to be lower than your character level, actually. it's awfully difficult to qualify for.

[Little Brother]

survivor actually requires your highest base save to be lower than your character level, actually. it's incredibly easy to qualify for.Every single mono-classed character(And multiclassed without overlap on high saves) at level 5 or higher qualifies.

EDIT:
EDIT 2: DERP . This whole typing thing is really not coming very easily too me. Too many paint chips as a child? Suckage at life, I am having.

[Venger]

Every single mono-classed character(And multiclassed without overlap on high saves) at level 5 or higher qualifies.

EDIT:
EDIT 2: DERP . This whole typing thing is really not coming very easily too me. Too many paint chips as a child? Suckage at life, I am having.

hm. perhaps I could have phrased it better. you are indeed mathematically correct. you can enter survivor at 6 with any particular class. however, why exactly would you want to? what character would benefit from survivor at 6 and 7 instead of, say, rogue or monk? evasion's about the only worthwhile thing it has to offer, and it makes you suck at skills (being the only class that doesn't give you new skills for entering. even war hulk gives 3 class skills) and the bare minimum of points per level along with 0 base attack, a peculiarity it shares with war hulk.

has anyone ever actually used survivor before?

spellsword isn't really "weird", more interesting. I like that you have to have beat one enemy without resorting to spells, that's kind of nice.

dungeon delve's zillion prereqs are crazy. it requires like 50 skill points, a bunch of feats, but the real kicker is that you have to solo an adventure that provides 50% of the xp you need to level up. wow.

[demigodus]

What book is the martyr prc in? This thread made me think about wanting to play it. :smallsmile:

[VGLordR2]

What book is the martyr prc in? This thread made me think about wanting to play it. :smallsmile:

Book of Exalted Deeds, page 68.

[Thurbane]

You could do the entry reqs for Beast Heart Adept, Pale Master and Dungeon Delver all in one go, if you're trapped in a cave-in inside a dungeon with an undead for a week. :smallbiggrin:

Beyond Archivist and Adept, weaseling as wizard(Or other arcane caster, but really, wizard) is the only way to do it.
There are another couple of ways...I once started a whole thread on it, with the hope of getting a Favored Soul into Hexer.

Divine Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204476)

[sonofzeal]

You could do the entry reqs for Beast Heart Adept, Pale Master and Dungeon Delver all in one go, if you're trapped in a cave-in inside a dungeon with an undead for a week. :smallbiggrin:

There are another couple of ways...I once started a whole thread on it, with the hope of getting a Favored Soul into Hexer.

Divine Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204476)
I'm not seeing anything there, but is there one of those ways that can be tweaked to get Beguiler in? I've always wanted to go that route, but never figured out how to make it RAW-legal.

[TypoNinja]

I like the Dragon Ascendent from Draconomicon, which requires a true dragon to consume its ENTIRE hoard of treasure totaling at least 100,000gp. Considering how ancient and powerful a dragon you have to be to qualify for this class, prepare to ascend to a god as a bloated, fat arse drake which chinks with the sound of gold upon gold whenever it walks. Or, ya know, dying from suffocation/eating too much.

Eh, dragons can eat half their body weight per day, so eating that much isnt an issue

But the true fun is the BAB +30 entry requirement. You can't meet it. Ever.

Remember your BAB never increases after 20th level. You get an epic bonus to all attack rolls every odd numbered level after 20 instead.

I suspect several epic PRC's suffer from this issue.

[kardar233]

Eh, dragons can eat half their body weight per day, so eating that much isnt an issue

But the true fun is the BAB +30 entry requirement. You can't meet it. Ever.

Remember your BAB never increases after 20th level. You get an epic bonus to all attack rolls every odd numbered level after 20 instead.

I suspect several epic PRC's suffer from this issue.

Monster HD work the same way they always do even after 20th. The PrCs in Draconomicon are made for dragons who are pretty damn old already. It's impossible to enter most of those PrCs without being a straight-up old dragon. Though someone actually managed to pull together a build that could start and finish Hidecarved Dragon pre-Epic.

[nedz]

How about these ?

Spell Domain - Limited Wish - Duplicate Lightningbolt ?

Miracle - Duplicate Lightningbolt ?

[Palthera]

Pyrokinetist - Must set a building on fire just to watch it burn. (Expanded Psionics). Not with your psionic powers, just in general...

Assassin - Evil and must kill someone just so you can become an assassin. I still maintain a neutral person could easily be an assassin, I reckon a good person could be if they favoured taking out enemies quickly, easily and with minimum of mess...

[Telonius]

Actually, yes, it's pretty easy. Set a rabbit down in front of you, keep it there, wait for a wolf to come by. Lots of Druids have wolves accompany them.

I suppose you could also wait for a hungry wolf to come by and feed it a rabbit. (Hey, that carnivore was in danger of starving!)

[Doxkid]

It states exactly what it does, and uses Dark Speech for fluff. It does not include any of the usual effects of Dark Speech as part of its effect, and thereby it does not have them and knowledge of the invocation must include knowledge of how to use it safely.


It specifically states its Dark Speech. It does not specifically train you to survive Dark Speech. Pretty clear-cut.


Least Invocation; 2nd
You speak a single syllable of the Dark Speech (described in Book of Vile Darkness), affecting an object or area as if by a shatter spell. If a creature is holding or wearing the target of the spell and the target is destroyed, the creature must make a Fortitude save or be dazed for 1 round and deafened for 1 minute by your terrible word. This is a sonic effect.


VS

The character learns a smattering of the language of truly dark power.
Prerequisite
INT 15, Base Will save bonus +5, Cha 15,
Benefit
The character can use the Dark Speech to bring loathing and fear to others, to help cast evil spells and create evil magic items, and to weaken physical objects (see Dark Speech in Chapter 2).
Special
The character gains a +4 circumstance bonus on saving throws made when someone uses the Dark Speech against him or her.
Normal
Attempting to utter a word of the Dark Speech always ends in immediate death for a speaker who is not trained in its dark power. Fortunately, it is impossible to make someone use the Dark Speech if he or she is unwilling, because the language's pronunciation is so exacting.
So...ya. It kind of DOES kill you.

[Answerer]

And knowing the invocation involves training.

[The Glyphstone]

Sounds legit to me. You have to deliberately speak Dark Speech, so the invocation must involve being trained how to speak it (and thus how to survive speaking it). Baleful Utterance is only a single syllable, the full Dark Speech feat is 'a smattering' at minimum, so they're not incompatible

As for 'it doesn't specifically say it trains you to survive it...neither does Dark Speech, so either the training is implicit to both or taking the Dark Speech feat kills your character.

[Fineous Orlon]

Nope. Extra Spell keeps you stuck on the same list. That's why it sucks.


I do not find this anywhere in the text of the feat Extra Spell in Complete Arcane, nor in the official errata for Complete Arcane.

I am inclined to think 'stuck on the same list' is not correct, but am willing to be shown the error of my ways.

[Occasional Sage]

Beloved of Valarian: must meditate at a druid’s grove and fast until she
saves the life of an animal in danger. Because if you're looking for a place where animals are going to be in danger, the first thing that pops into your head is, "Druid's grove!"



Actually, yes, it's pretty easy. Set a rabbit down in front of you, keep it there, wait for a wolf to come by. Lots of Druids have wolves accompany them.

Heck, if you meditate long enough to get hungry you qualify just by letting the rabbit go!

[dspeyer]

Adept 3, Arcivist 3 (if they can find an Adept with it), Shujenga 4, Sor/Wiz 3, Warmage 3.

Not listed on any domains in the archive I use, which is usually pretty reliable.

Perhaps Geomancer, to turn the spell divine?

[Thurbane]

I do not find this anywhere in the text of the feat Extra Spell in Complete Arcane, nor in the official errata for Complete Arcane.

I am inclined to think 'stuck on the same list' is not correct, but am willing to be shown the error of my ways.
It is spelled out in the Official FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) document - which some people hold as RAW, while others do not.

Can you take spells from spell lists other than your own with the Extra Spell feat (CAr 79)?
The Extra Spell feat allows you to choose a new spell, but it does not remove the restrictions of how you would normally pick your spells—so they must be picked from your own spell list.

[Draz74]

But the true fun is the BAB +30 entry requirement. You can't meet it. Ever.

Remember your BAB never increases after 20th level. You get an epic bonus to all attack rolls every odd numbered level after 20 instead.

I suspect several epic PRC's suffer from this issue.

It's actually not an issue: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm#epicAttackBonus)


Any time a feat, prestige class, or other rule refers to your base attack bonus (except for gaining additional attacks), use the sum of your base attack bonus and epic attack bonus.

Also,

Normal
Attempting to utter a word of the Dark Speech always ends in immediate death for a speaker who is not trained in its dark power.

One syllable < one word (in general). Therefore, using Baleful Utterance does not technically qualify as attempting to utter "a word" of the Dark Speech, and therefore is not lethal.

[Agent 451]

Here's one: Frostrager requires you to have been brought below 0 hp by magical cold. Or by failing either a knowledge (nature), or Intelligence check when stepping off of a plane in Edmonton without an Arctic rated parka during the months of September through May.....


.....or if you want to go by RAW, you need to be brought low by damage due to exposure to extremely cold environments.

[Duke of URL]

Or by failing either a knowledge (nature), or Intelligence check when stepping off of a plane in Edmonton without an Arctic rated parka during the months of September through May.....

That sounds like a house rule. :smallbiggrin:

[Fineous Orlon]

It is spelled out in the Official FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) document - which some people hold as RAW, while others do not.

By RAW, the FAQ is not RAW, although it can be very useful and appreciated.

[demigodus]

Least Invocation; 2nd
You speak a single syllable of the Dark Speech (described in Book of Vile Darkness), affecting an object or area as if by a shatter spell. If a creature is holding or wearing the target of the spell and the target is destroyed, the creature must make a Fortitude save or be dazed for 1 round and deafened for 1 minute by your terrible word. This is a sonic effect.
VS

Attempting to utter a word of the Dark Speech always ends in immediate death for a speaker who is not trained in its dark power. Fortunately, it is impossible to make someone use the Dark Speech if he or she is unwilling, because the language's pronunciation is so exacting.
So...ya. It kind of DOES kill you.

1 syllable != 1 word, generally. If it does, pick a different syllable.

By RAW then, you are fine. I'm pretty sure you are fine by RAI as well.

[Amphetryon]

Three pages with no mention yet of Ardent Dilettante? Initial entry may not be that difficult, but these are the pre-reqs that just keep on giving. . . .

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ardent Dilettante from the planar handbook is what it was called

It starts out requiring 1 skill at 8 ranks and any other 5 skills at 1 rank with a small rp requirement

And then 10th level requires: Perform 8 ranks, 1 Strength, dex, con, and int or wis based skill at 5 ranks each (1str, 1dex, 1con, 1int or wis)
Proficiency with at least four martial weapons
and one exotic weapon.
Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells and 1st-level
divine spells.
Also have to have visited 6 different planes and died and come back (Life or unlife)


Three pages with no mention yet of Ardent Dilettante? Initial entry may not be that difficult, but these are the pre-reqs that just keep on giving. . . .

You were saying? :smalltongue:

[Amphetryon]

You were saying? :smalltongue:

Anyone find my Spot check? :smallsigh:

[Thurbane]

I find the easiest entry for Ardent Dilletante is probably the Savant from Dungeon Compendium - the only thing you need outside of class abilities and skills is an Exotic Weapon Proficiency, which will cost you a feat (or if you can find a race who is proficient with an exotic weapon, not even that).

Well, outside of the planehopping and dying business, that is...