When are you ready to DM (PbP)?

[danzibr]

Pretty much what the title is. Soon I want to run a mini-campaign on the forums here, probably going 3-6 (giving a test run for the first part of a much larger campaign). I want to know how ready I ought to be to run a campaign with professional* players.

For my playing experience... minimal. I've made several characters and read up on rules a lot, but I honestly haven't played much.

I have much more experience as a DM, but all of it is in person. Fortunately, PbP gives you time to think and research rather than make decisions on the spot.

Really, I'm curious as to how much of the campaign should I have planned out. I already have most of the town (they're only going to one town) planned out, including descriptions of people and generic responses and how things would seem to naturally progress, and I have the first encounter and the entire first dungeon planned. And by that I mean bad dudes statted up, gear, CR, exp, etc. And their return trip to the town. But they probably ought to destroy a bridge after that, and defend the town before it gets steamrolled.

*by professional I mean people who know the rules very well and put a lot of time and effort into making good (powerful in combat or otherwise) characters.

[Invader]

I've tried DM'ing a bunch of times due most to my desire to play and everyone else's desire to not be a DM and every time I've never really got the campaign flying that well. That being said, the only advice I'd give is don't plan on having the whole campaign finished and set in stone because invariably one of your players will do something that messes it all up lol.

[Saintheart]

PbP requires a lot less upfront preparation, since as you rightly point out, you have unlimited time to think. You can get by a lot more on the fly since, as you say, you don't have to come up with an answer on the spot. Personally, owing to a lack of nearby "living" players, I don't do anything but PbP DMing and I actually like it because I can get it to fit around my life rather than take out a big chunk of my weekend and away from my family.

On the other hand, just bear in mind PbP also gives the players unlimited time to think as well. Don't know if it's a general experience, but I suspect players are much better at utilising optimisation strategies and stacking-damage options since they don't have to come up with them under time pressure.

But otherwise, that level of preparation is plenty. You can make the rest of it up as you go.

[dspeyer]

There are challenges to PbP that don't occur in person. Keeping the energy flowing. Making sure everyone understands things. Dealing with people vanishing for a few days.... I don't have any helpful advice, since I'm terrible at it. Nor can I guarantee that preparation will help. Just be aware.

[Theroc]

Well, when you say professional, you seem to refer to optimizers.

Many optimizers are not unforgiving of a new DM and are willing to tone things down so the DM doesn't suffer brain explosions due to the crazy antics.

One thing you should be prepared for is, (this is my opinion and is in no way fact), it seems at least GITP seems to run a good deal of games intended to scratch itches that the face to face games lack. Example: A local group avoids fiends like the plague, then the player comes to GITP and plays a half-fiend.

So, unless you explicitly ban or state preference of avoiding certain things, you may wind up with crazy combinations(Especially if you say "ALL SOURCES!")

[Madcrafter]

So, unless you explicitly ban or state preference of avoiding certain things, you may wind up with crazy combinations(Especially if you say "ALL SOURCES!")

Case in point, I got talked into DMing a game here a few weeks ago, lv5 Eberron, all sources allowed. One of the applicants came up with this (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=402943) monstrosity. The rest tended to stay at a high medium amount of optimization, and actually stuck to a few main books for the most part.

Definitely you can use the extra time to prepare to your advantage. As the DM the game only moves as fast as you allow it to (though you should make sure it isn't going too slowly), so if you need some extra time to think things through that is fine. I don't think you'll encounter too much of crazy levels of optimization, especially if you mention you are looking for a particular power level in your opening post. And even then, you always have the option of refusing them, which is something that is probably easier on the internet than in person.

[danzibr]

Yeah, that character's... pretty crazy.

I should've mentioned the mini-campaign will be of a set race but everything else (official) goes. No dandwiki, in particular.

Anyways, thanks for the responses, all. I'll probably make a post this weekend on the recruiting, yay.

EDIT: Oh right, no CN and below.

[Morph Bark]

The only thing you really need for PbP, is willingness to keep it going for a long time and players willing to put up with that and put effort into it as well.

[Ernir]

Hmm. Stuff you should know before DMing a PbP:

Everything takes a long-ass time. Resolving a combat round? Takes days in a mature PbP. Splitting loot? Days. Deciding the next course of action? Oh gods. Don't expect instant gratification on anything. Due to item 1, PbP campaigns are long affairs. Where do you see yourself in a few years? Because that's when you'll be wrapping up the campaign. Players drop out. A lot. Some lose interest, some were never that interested to begin with, and some go through whole life changes that make them unable to post. In any case, you must be aware of this, and more importantly, be prepared to handle it.
At times, you will want to drop out. You've had a busy day, are tired, and dealing with a friggin' PbP backlog doesn't sound nearly as appealing as falling asleep in front of the TV. Make sure this is something you want to do badly enough to not lose interest at the first bump in the road. The DM is the real driving force behind any PbP. When a player has to be prodded about something (usually inaction), you're usually the one who has to do it. Lots of games fail on this point - the DM somehow expecting things to happen on their own. You know how you have "unlimited time to think"? That also means you spend a long time thinking. You have more flexibility in deciding when you prepare your material, but you still have to do it. I spend just as much, if not more, time on "DM stuff" for PbP games as for RL games.

Totally worth it, though. :smalltongue:

[Jarian]

Players drop out. A lot. Some lose interest, some were never that interested to begin with, and some go through whole life changes that make them unable to post. In any case, you must be aware of this, and more importantly, be prepared to handle it.

Speaking of, hi Ernir! I think this went unsaid but was generally understood, but just in case, I never lost interest in your game, only the ability to post with any semblance of reliability.

We good, even if you probably consider me the most unreliable person on GitP? :smallsmile:

[Duke of URL]

I'm going to probably make steak out of a sacred cow or two here...

When you think you are ready for a PbP game, I suggest that you don't play it at GitP, but rather at a site designed specifically for PbP games, such as RPoL (http://rpol.net/). For three main reasons:

1) While GitP supports PbP games by providing specific forums, a dice roller, etc., a dedicated site offers far more in the way of tools to run a PbP game. For example, RPoL has an easier-to use dice roller, support for private lines and languages, the ability to run multiple "groups" in the same game without exposing what they're doing to each other, all threads for a single game grouped in one place, etc.

2) Despite the money and effort that's gone into improving the GitP forums, they simply are not all that reliable, and difficulties in posting can disrupt any flow you manage to get going. (Edit: in a fit of proving my point, I get four consecutive "the server is too busy" errors after I made this post.)

3) As much as I hate to say it, the player base. The community here is very much on the high-op end of the spectrum, and no matter what you list for allowed sources, you're going to get a half dozen or so applicants asking for sources outside the list, and especially homebrew that might work very well on its own, but becomes utterly broken when used in some specific combination, which is exactly what the player is after. Plus (and this may be strongly related to #1 and #2), I see a much higher drop-out rate at GitP than at RPoL. (And admit to being a guilty party in that respect.)

[Rejakor]

When you're ready to put the effort in.

It takes a lot of effort as a GM to keep player interest.

Similarly, you have to have knowledge of pacing, and the willingness to NPC people to keep the game moving. If interest drops, people will check the site less/be less likely to post if they check the site. If they post less, their interest will drop. It's a vicious cycle that claims 99% of all PbP games.

If you don't stint on the game ad (information presented, interesting idea, formatting, spelling, grammar, writing skills) you'll have a nice pool of people to choose from. If you don't stint on checking up on their posting histories, you'll be able to know which have been around, which styles of writing they use, which are likely to disappear, etc etc and then you can build a party that works and is good.

Basically just be willing to put the effort in.

As for planning preparation - prepare the world, and the hooks, do not prepare the PCs actions, and be prepared to change up the encounters if they are too hard or too easy. For combat, posting limits, in terms of time you get before your turn gets npc'd, is a very good idea.

[hoverfrog]

I'm interested in the same question. My guess is that you shouldn't DM a game until you've at least played in one and experienced the issues first hand.

[Rejakor]

Wrong.

People who haven't played PbP ever before, or even much DnD, succeed immensely at it (often thanks to being untainted by the horrible mindsets and myths surrounding it), while people who boast about DMing RL games, or 'having played PbP for years' fail at it completely.

The most important part is the mindset and just doing stuff until it works. Individual group dynamics are too complex to rote-learn a way to make an actually successful game, and attitude is 99% of it, since people will swim upstream using only their teeth if you have the right attitude about it.


EDIT: Oh, and.


Case in point, I got talked into DMing a game here a few weeks ago, lv5 Eberron, all sources allowed. One of the applicants came up with this (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=402943) monstrosity. The rest tended to stay at a high medium amount of optimization, and actually stuck to a few main books for the most part.

Are you kidding? That's great. I would LOVE it if one of my players came to me with something as asstarded as that is. Oh the roleplaying hooks in the mechanics ALONE.

Half elf, half minotaur? That's either.. a hell of a love story, or some big R word going on. Geeze, I really hope that it was the MOTHER that was the minotaur, cause otherwise, wow, that would have sucked.

And there's even a picture! With a nose ring! HAH

Not only that, it worships an elder evil! That's like, half a campaign of plot hooks right there! And it has my favourite ever melee warrior feat chain (dungeoncrashing knockback! JUST WRECK THE WHOLE PLACE!) with the charging addon for it (shock trooper leap attack).

And 2 levels of monk!

Oh god!

That's so perfect!

It's like the final optimizer thumbing of the nose - Not only did I build this amazing, powerful, interesting thing, I did it with MONK LEVELS.

WIELDING A LEGENDARY GREATCLUB

By all the gods.

I pick this. Over a thousand elf swashbucklers with boring names and boring faces and boring rapiers, I pick this. Dear god yes.

I want to play in a party with this character. I want to RIDE ON THIS CHARACTER. I want to watch this character doing the bidding of elder evils.

SO. PERFECT.

[killem2]

what is PbP?

[Kuulvheysoon]

what is PbP?

Play By Post.

It's the... acceptable alternative to a RL game when other things (location, work schedules, etc...) prevent you from meeting physically.

[Blisstake]

Play By Post.

It's the... acceptable alternative to a RL game when other things (location, work schedules, etc...) prevent you from meeting physically.

Or if you prefer PbPs. I have 3 IRL games going strong, but I'm still DMing a game here, and playing in 2 just because the role playing standards (and maturity for the most part) are much higher.

In other words, it isn't neceasrily an alternative.

[GnomeGninjas]

Get a few people and hope that they are active. PM them if they don't respond in a few days after your post. On the other hand you can get a whole bunch of people, expect most of them to go away. You have to have a we skip you if you don't respond within [time frame] policy though if you have a lot of people.

[whibla]

Case in point, I got talked into DMing a game here a few weeks ago, lv5 Eberron, all sources allowed. One of the applicants came up with this (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=402943) monstrosity. The rest tended to stay at a high medium amount of optimization, and actually stuck to a few main books for the most part.

That's a lvl 5 ECL? I can't quite bring myself to look up all those feats, but something seems somehow...erm...broken!

Remind me not to try DM'ing by post :smalleek:

[Blisstake]

Remind me not to try DM'ing by post :smalleek:

Keep in mind, as the DM you get to decide which submitted characters will end up in the game :smalltongue:

[danzibr]

Play By Post.

It's the... acceptable alternative to a RL game when other things (location, work schedules, etc...) prevent you from meeting physically.
Considering nobody I play with irl is serious about D&D, I'd say PbP is the better of the two. Well, actually, I don't think the two are in the same ordered set, but as far as my D&D experiences go, I prefer PbP overall.