[New Challenge Idea Reality Check] The Genesis Awards (Name?)

[Welknair]

I've been thinking of a potential new competition here in the homebrew section. We have Base Class, Prestige Class, and Monster competitions, but I find that my favorite stuff falls outside of these bounds. What about things outside of these three categories? Or projects that are technically included, but go far beyond?

In this hypothetical competition, submitted projects would have to be something that somehow deviates from "Standard" Base Classes, Monsters, PrCs, feats, and spells, though they can still (But don't have to) fall into these categories. The point is to have a cohesive project that somehow has a large impact on the shape of a gameworld including it. These are meant to be made with campaign-centrality in mind. These shouldn't be things that are extremely rare, but rather ones that shape the course of history. I'm looking for the big stuff.

It's important to note that these submitions don't necessarily need to be Xenotheurgy-sized projects. It's possible for a very small tweak to have massive effects on a game world. And they don't need to fall into standard categories of homebrew. They could be something like the idea of "Bloodlines", an entirely new facet of the game.

What are people's thoughts on this? Is it something I should try to set up? Obviously I would need a clearer description of what submitions should be like, since the above I realize is pretty all over the place. Also, I'd like a better name, though I can't think of one.

[Amechra]

I like the idea; maybe call it the Aberrant Creation Contest?

Where the goal is to homebrew something which is not a normal base class/prestige class/monster?

[Amechra]

I like the idea; maybe call it the Aberrant Creation Contest?

Where the goal is to homebrew something which is not a normal base class/prestige class/monster?

[Virdish]

I lie this idea and it would motivate me to do my expanded spell touched system that I have been meaning to do.

[Welknair]

I like the idea; maybe call it the Aberrant Creation Contest?

Where the goal is to homebrew something which is not a normal base class/prestige class/monster?
I like the name! If no one has a better suggestion, I may go with that.

And yes, that is the gist of it!


I lie this idea and it would motivate me to do my expanded spell touched system that I have been meaning to do.
So we've got a bit of support!


I've never run a competition before, and my work has always been too off t he beaten track to fit into any of the usual ones. As such, I have relatively little experience with the whole thing. The other competitions usually have themes for each individual contest, don't they? Hmm.. What do you guys think about the concept of a "Theme"? I'm afraid that it would limit creativity, but at the same time it may be required to give people a starting point and add some coherence to the contests, instead of them being collections of totally random (yet still awesome) projects. I'm open to suggestions.

[Milo v3]

I've never run a competition before, and my work has always been too off t he beaten track to fit into any of the usual ones. As such, I have relatively little experience with the whole thing. The other competitions usually have themes for each individual contest, don't they? Hmm.. What do you guys think about the concept of a "Theme"? I'm afraid that it would limit creativity, but at the same time it may be required to give people a starting point and add some coherence to the contests, instead of them being collections of totally random (yet still awesome) projects. I'm open to suggestions.

I think their should be a theme for each, at least as inspiration. But make it so that the theme is a starting point rather than a rule. As long as people can see that the theme is there then it should be fine.

Also some people find that being limited slightly increases creativity.

[Morph Bark]

You mean like the Potpourri Creation Contest?

[Welknair]

You mean like the Potpourri Creation Contest?

I suppose a bit like that. However, I'd like to make it such that the type of brew (Skill check, class, monster, etc.) is not determined. I'm looking for something a little more open-ended.

Perhaps the themes ought to be goals of the brew? Such as "Make something that's normally harmless into something terrifying"? You could go about that in a million different ways.

[Amechra]

May I nominate my entry:

"Half the stuff on the SCP Foundation wiki"?

:smallamused:

[Welknair]

Ideas I've had for themes:
Make the dark scary
Introduce an ancient race
Show that magic can have long-lasting effects
Give players a reason to question the Gods
Cause something to be highly valued
Give a price for power
Make children useful
Make standard physics only a guideline

Possible scoring criteria:
Accomplishment of objective
Balance
Flavor
Originality (In mechanics and fluff)

Submissions ought to be things that greatly impact any world in which they are included. These ought to be things that influence the way the world works, not a single character (Though I suppose you could brew something to make a single character influence the entire world, but that's a bit risky balance-wise). A section must be included at the end of the submission detailing the exact effects this homebrew could have on a world, why, how, implications, and so on.

Thoughts? If people like this general setup, we can hold a vote on the above themes. Until such a time as the vote is declared, others are free to suggest other themes. I may also want a couple judges to help me rate the potential submissions.

[Milo v3]

Seems like a good setup. One question though, who will be the scorer? Is it going to be anyone who wants to vote can vote, is it going to be you, is it going to be a small group of people you've selected?

[Welknair]

Seems like a good setup. One question though, who will be the scorer? Is it going to be anyone who wants to vote can vote, is it going to be you, is it going to be a small group of people you've selected?

This is a very good question. My original plan was me and a couple of qualified volunteers. I am of course open to suggestions.

Main options:
Just me (Please no)
Just somebody else (Who?)
Small group
Free Vote

Out of these, the last two make the most sense to me. Thoughts?

[Sgt. Cookie]

I'd say free vote.

[Milo v3]

Small group would probably be best in my opinion as it is much easier to average everyones scores, you are sure that you will get enough peoples voting so that the competition isn't for waste, and lastly it is easier to get a group to work with a view of quality than to expect the public has a good grasp on it.

[JoshuaZ]

Ideas I've had for theams:

Show that magic can have long-lasting effects
Give players a reason to question the Gods

Give a price for power


I like these three especially because D&D doesn't normally do any of them very well.

[Virdish]

I like the magic having long lasting effects since it would give me the ability to make my system but that is just me being greedy.

[Welknair]

I like the magic having long lasting effects since it would give me the ability to make my system but that is just me being greedy.

This totally wasn't what I was thinking of when I listed that idea.

My last concern is the number of potential entrants. What if I go through the process of setting this all up, finding judges and so forth, and we only get a couple of entrants?

[Story Time]

Welknair has bigger things to think about than the number of entrants.

Theme suggestion: Over-Looked Professions In A Feudal Society.

You know, the professions that every-one knows exist in a fantasy setting, but none of the manuals actually touch on. Base Classes would be excluded. The contest would almost be pure flavor as long as the end result would be a Profession(Something) skill.

Welknair should be hand-selecting judges. Entrants would be allowed on a first-come and first-served basis. Pick a limited number of slots for entrants to fill. Once those slots are full no more are accepted. Some number that is twenty or less.

Then, using rounds and maybe specific challenges, divide the number of entrants in half until only one remains. Each round could feature a different profession theme chosen by either the entrants ( preferred ) or the contest organizer.

[Morph Bark]

For Over-Looked Professions In A Feudal Society I already got my Commoner PrCs.

*shot*

[Welknair]

For Over-Looked Professions In A Feudal Society I already got my Commoner PrCs.

*shot*

1. I'm probably going to include a rule saying that submissions cannot have been posted prior to the creation of the contest. We're trying to encourage NEW work.

2. I have NPC PrCs too!

3. I was going to invite you to be a judge, if you're interested. You have more than sufficient experience with homebrew in general, as well as "Weird" things. I feel you'd be a great judge for this kind of competition.

Any other name suggestions?

[Morph Bark]

Obviously previous content would be barred. I'd hate to see things just get re-hashed over and over again, inspiring new stuff is MUCH more fun!

And I have seen your NPC PrCs. There have been times where I felt inspired to make some non-Commoner Flaw PrCs due to that, thinking I could do better.
There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

I'd be honoured and delighted to be a judge. I may have to retreat for a while though, to fashion myself an appropriate helmet.

http://themodelmaker.co.uk/Web%20SIte/Images/MONTAGEdreddhelmet.jpg

As for name suggestions for the contest:
The Chop Shop Homebrew Contest
The Forgotten Splats (where we sort-of pretend that we're making new splatbooks and each chapter needs a little filling, like Races, Classes, Prestige Classes, Magic, Equipment, Environments, Monsters, Cultures, etc.)
The Homebrew Arena; Everything Is Permitted!

[Welknair]

Theme suggestion: Over-Looked Professions In A Feudal Society.

You know, the professions that every-one knows exist in a fantasy setting, but none of the manuals actually touch on. Base Classes would be excluded. The contest would almost be pure flavor as long as the end result would be a Profession(Something) skill.
Hmm. Definitely sounds like the kind of theme that would be covered by this competition. It's worth noting that I'd like to avoid dictating the type of any submissions, such as saying that a "Profession" skill must be included. With that kind of theme, it makes sense that 'brewers would include one in one way
or another, but if they can accomplish the objective without it, kudos to them.


Welknair should be hand-selecting judges. Entrants would be allowed on a first-come and first-served basis. Pick a limited number of slots for entrants to fill. Once those slots are full no more are accepted. Some number that is twenty or less.
20 sounds like a reasonable maximum and I doubt we'll have more than that number of entrants on the first run.

Judge-wise: It sounds like Morph would be willing to be one (Squee! :smallbiggrin:). I'd like another one or two. Hmm.. Owthro would be good, if he was interested and had the time. Hmm.. Thinking of other candidates. One of the problems is that the people who would make the best judges would also be like to producing some of the best submissions.


Then, using rounds and maybe specific challenges, divide the number of entrants in half until only one remains. Each round could feature a different profession theme chosen by either the entrants ( preferred ) or the contest organizer.
I like the round idea. I am still a little worried about how many entrants we'll have. I don't frequent competition threads, but my impression was that there wasn't usually a massive number of submissions. Especially with a first-run, I don't know if we'll have enough to do something like rounds. If we did, I think it'd be cool to have things like three-part themes, where each part built on the last. In that case, we'd have to come up with limiting factors to stagger larger projects into the three parts. Hm. I think that may be too complicated.


And I have seen your NPC PrCs. There have been times where I felt inspired to make some non-Commoner Flaw PrCs due to that, thinking I could do better.
There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.
:smallredface: I'm not even sure how to respond to that. That means a lot, coming from you.


I'd be honoured and delighted to be a judge. I may have to retreat for a while though, to fashion myself an appropriate helmet.

http://themodelmaker.co.uk/Web%20SIte/Images/MONTAGEdreddhelmet.jpg
Splendid! Hmm, now I think I may need to find a hat for myself..
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090528233236/girlgenius/images/7/74/Magnificent-hat.png (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Magnificent_Hat?image=Magnificent-hat-png)
Much better.


As for name suggestions for the contest:
The Chop Shop Homebrew Contest
The Forgotten Splats (where we sort-of pretend that we're making new splatbooks and each chapter needs a little filling, like Races, Classes, Prestige Classes, Magic, Equipment, Environments, Monsters, Cultures, etc.)
The Homebrew Arena; Everything Is Permitted!

Hmm, I like the latter two. The third would make a great general title, whereas the second implies a further structure. Above I mentioned my potential affinity towards a round-system, which this would seem to be in support of. The immediate problem with trying to generate a splatbook-type feel is that the submissions won't really be too cohesive. We may be able to work something out along those lines, though, if we determine it is a good idea.

Perhaps we could Skype-call at some point to discuss this?

Edit: Other judge ideas: NeoSeraphi and Milo?

[Milo v3]

Other judge ideas: NeoSeraphi and Milo?

I'd judge if thats what your asking.
But there may be a problem. Because of the blocks on my laptop, I cannot access Skype.

[Morph Bark]

:smallredface: I'm not even sure how to respond to that. That means a lot, coming from you.

Hey, I calls 'em like I sees 'em! Your bloodlines puzzled me at first (until I tried making one myself and gave myself derpes), but you've certainly earned a modicum of praise. And possibly payments in blood. Or a beer.



Splendid! Hmm, now I think I may need to find a hat for myself..
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090528233236/girlgenius/images/7/74/Magnificent-hat.png (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Magnificent_Hat?image=Magnificent-hat-png)
Much better.

I have a feeling we have our mascot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175194). :smallcool::smalltongue:


Perhaps we could Skype-call at some point to discuss this?

Certainly an idea. My Skype works anyhoo. BUT MY VOICE MIGHT SCARE YOURS INTO OBLIVION. ;_;

I think Vilpich could make a great judge, potentially. Your other judge ideas are certainly fair as well.

[Story Time]

I'm sorry. Sixteen entrants. Twenty divides by two into an odd number. Five.

For there to be bouts between the contestants an even number of slots is required. In other words, a number that multiplies of off four.

[Welknair]

I'd judge if thats what your asking.
But there may be a problem. Because of the blocks on my laptop, I cannot access Skype.

I was indeed asking if you would be a Judge! Skype is my first choice, but it isn't strictly necessary. It'd be nice to voicechat to set some of this stuff up, but once that done I'd just need PMs from the Judges giving their scores for the submissions. I don't think that an inability to Skype would prevent you from Judging.


Hey, I calls 'em like I sees 'em! Your bloodlines puzzled me at first (until I tried making one myself and gave myself derpes), but you've certainly earned a modicum of praise. And possibly payments in blood. Or a beer.
:smallbiggrin: If you don't mind, I may want to sig this and the quote before it.

Also, if you're looking for the really crazy stuff, check out my Fourthland thread (Link in sig). That is the wackiest thing I have ever made and have ever seen made. I can always use a fresh mind to contemplate the crazy ideas I throw out there. Drop by some time! /Shamelessselfadvert


I have a feeling we have our mascot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175194). :smallcool::smalltongue:
Yessss, the little haaats.
(http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2188)


Certainly an idea. My Skype works anyhoo. BUT MY VOICE MIGHT SCARE YOURS INTO OBLIVION. ;_;
I was playing Minecraft Hunger Games earlier today and got on a Skype Team with a couple of people. They swore I was in my forties. So apparently I have a strange voice too.


I think Vilpich could make a great judge, potentially. Your other judge ideas are certainly fair as well.
Ah, Vilpich would be very good as well. I'm going to send a PM invite to Neo, Vilp and Owthro inviting them to act as judges.


I'm sorry. Sixteen entrants. Twenty divides by two into an odd number. Five.

For there to be bouts between the contestants an even number of slots is required. In other words, a number that multiplies of off four.

Hmm. I've done a bit more research now and have skimmed through some of the old contest threads. Given the goal of this competition (To encourage more creative and influential homebrew projects, as opposed to the multitude of PrCs that get good PEACHs and then are never used), I think that a round system may be counter productive. We want people to be entering and making cool things. I don't see how a round system would directly advance that goal.

[Milo v3]

I was indeed asking if you would be a Judge! Skype is my first choice, but it isn't strictly necessary. It'd be nice to voicechat to set some of this stuff up, but once that done I'd just need PMs from the Judges giving their scores for the submissions. I don't think that an inability to Skype would prevent you from Judging.


Sounds good. I'd be honoured. :smallsmile:

[Welknair]

Sounds good. I'd be honoured. :smallsmile:

Splendid! PMs sent!

[Story Time]

Hmm. I've done a bit more research now and have skimmed through some of the old contest threads. Given the goal of this competition (To encourage more creative and influential homebrew projects, as opposed to the multitude of PrCs that get good PEACHs and then are never used), I think that a round system may be counter productive. We want people to be entering and making cool things. I don't see how a round system would directly advance that goal.

It's Welknair's thread. Welknair can do as he wishes. I just wanted to point out that it's usually easier for judges to pick one-from-two instead of one-from-many. That's how I found Iron Poet to function. :smallsmile:

[Morph Bark]

:smallbiggrin: If you don't mind, I may want to sig this and the quote before it.

Only if you include your own quote in-between! :smalltongue:

It's fine by me, really. It's been a while since I've been sigged.


Also, if you're looking for the really crazy stuff, check out my Fourthland thread (Link in sig). That is the wackiest thing I have ever made and have ever seen made. I can always use a fresh mind to contemplate the crazy ideas I throw out there. Drop by some time! /Shamelessselfadvert

I saw the Fourthland thread pass by on the first page a couple of times, but after checking it out once I never got back to it. I think it was because I thought it wasn't DnD, or something? It was way back at the beginning anyhoo. New RPGs scare me easily, though some I've stuck with made me fall in love with them (Pirates vs Ninjas; Dungeons: The Dragoning 40,000 7th Edition; a handful of d20 projects).


Yessss, the little haaats.
(http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2188)

Exactemundo. :smallcool:

GitP needs a smily with a hat.

Also, brb, making Little Hat hat trick.


Ah, Vilpich would be very good as well. I'm going to send a PM invite to Neo, Vilp and Owthro inviting them to act as judges.

Be sure to tell them that judging means they can't enter, at least not during any contest they are judging (but can enter if they aren't judges in later installments). Sometimes people think you can do both if they just don't judge their own work (heck, I've done that once).


It's Welknair's thread. Welknair can do as he wishes. I just wanted to point out that it's usually easier for judges to pick one-from-two instead of one-from-many. That's how I found Iron Poet to function. :smallsmile:

I think an endeavor of this sort is perhaps more comparable to Iron Chef than Iron Poet. Especially since if we wanted to do multiple rounds, those making new systems or a whole bunch of new rules would easily get exhausted and by the end we end up with mediocre stuff because everyone is burned out.

We could certainly bring older themes back later on though, if there's call for it, to bring new ideas to the same table.

[Welknair]

Only if you include your own quote in-between! :smalltongue:

It's fine by me, really. It's been a while since I've been sigged.
:smallbiggrin:


I saw the Fourthland thread pass by on the first page a couple of times, but after checking it out once I never got back to it. I think it was because I thought it wasn't DnD, or something? It was way back at the beginning anyhoo. New RPGs scare me easily, though some I've stuck with made me fall in love with them (Pirates vs Ninjas; Dungeons: The Dragoning 40,000 7th Edition; a handful of d20 projects).
It's probably worth another check. The OP now has some actual information that may intrigue you.


Be sure to tell them that judging means they can't enter, at least not during any contest they are judging (but can enter if they aren't judges in later installments). Sometimes people think you can do both if they just don't judge their own work (heck, I've done that once).
This sounds pretty intuitive. I may still want to make some stuff based off the themes, even if I can't enter my own work :smalltongue:

Out of the three I sent, I've gotten one response, from Neo. He politely declined the position.


I think an endeavor of this sort is perhaps more comparable to Iron Chef than Iron Poet. Especially since if we wanted to do multiple rounds, those making new systems or a whole bunch of new rules would easily get exhausted and by the end we end up with mediocre stuff because everyone is burned out.

We could certainly bring older themes back later on though, if there's call for it, to bring new ideas to the same table.

/agree

Revisits would be an interesting idea. I do like the concept of having people build on previous projects, but I agree that it would be too difficult/complicated to start off with, or to have as a single event.

Name idea: Freestyle Homebrew Arena?

[Virdish]

That name is cool but it implies two things that this competition isn't first of all since there is a theme it's not exactly freestyle and arena will usually make people expect the tier system that was already knocked down.

[Welknair]

That name is cool but it implies two things that this competition isn't first of all since there is a theme it's not exactly freestyle and arena will usually make people expect the tier system that was already knocked down.

Well, the "Freestyle" was alluding more towards how the entrants are free to use whatever kind of mode they'd like to achieve the objective (Class, feat chain, other, etc). But yeah, I get what you mean. I'm a little less clear on what's wrong with the "Arena" bit. What about that necessarily implies a tier system?

[Morph Bark]

If you make it "Freestyle [X] Homebrew Arena", where [X] is a one-word description of the current theme, it could work.

I am unsure as well as to why "arena" implies use of the Tier system (though my involvement might make some people think my Homebrew Tier Compendium will somehow be involved, maybe). If that turns out to really be an issue, "arena" could be replaced with "Grand Melee" or something that implies a competition of many at once.

Freestyle could be replaced with Unlimited, if necessary. Or Unlimithemed. Unique words, hoy!

[Welknair]

If you make it "Freestyle [X] Homebrew Arena", where [X] is a one-word description of the current theme, it could work.

I am unsure as well as to why "arena" implies use of the Tier system (though my involvement might make some people think my Homebrew Tier Compendium will somehow be involved, maybe). If that turns out to really be an issue, "arena" could be replaced with "Grand Melee" or something that implies a competition of many at once.

Freestyle could be replaced with Unlimited, if necessary. Or Unlimithemed. Unique words, hoy!

"Unlimithemed Grand Melee"

Hmm...

"Mixed Homebrew Arts"? MHA?

[Morph Bark]

If you can get something starting with a U between Mixed and Homebrew, it would fit in perfectly with our awesome evil hats.

[Virdish]

I like mixed homebrew arts. It sounds fun. My point with the tier thing is that it implies a tournament scheme. Though you could go freestyle (x) homebrew grand melee

[Welknair]

If you can get something starting with a U between Mixed and Homebrew, it would fit in perfectly with our awesome evil hats.

Mixed ULTIMATE Homebrew?


I like mixed homebrew arts. It sounds fun. My point with the tier thing is that it implies a tournament scheme. Though you could go freestyle (x) homebrew grand melee

Hmm.. So far I'm liking "Mixed Homebrew Arts" the best.

[Morph Bark]

Mixed ULTIMATE Homebrew?

Yeeessss...

[Virdish]

Sounds good can't wait to see it up.

[Morph Bark]

"Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, my name is 'Omme Breuer and I will be your host today. Allow me to welcome you all to the first installment of MIXED ULTIMATE HOMEBREW ARTS! We have a fine line-up of capable contestants awaiting your viewing pleasure; for them, only one question remains:

ARE YOU READY TO 'BREW IT?!"

[Welknair]

I just received a message from Owthro confirming that he would like to act as a Judge. He says he has skype but would be unable to voice-chat.

His suggestion name-wise was the "One Word Contest: ____". So this would be things like "One Word Contest: Darkness", "One Word Contest: Ancients", and so on. He alternatively suggested the "Contest of Few Words: ___" which is a pretty self-explanatory expansion of the prior idea.

I would like to maintain the "Objective" aspect of the competition, and I think that naming the competitions in this manner could imply that submissions simply need to be related to the topic in some way. It could still be possible to do something like "One Word Contest: Darkness", then include the objective in the OP. This could also tie in with the concept of revisiting topics.

And does MUHA have any special signifance? :smallconfused: I can't seem to figure it out.

[Morph Bark]

And does MUHA have any special signifance? :smallconfused: I can't seem to figure it out.

It was a bit of a play on MUHAHAHAHA, because an evil laugh obviously would underline our hidden diabolical agenda behind this challenge. :smalltongue:

Semi-silly, though still somewhat serious suggestion. It was also partly because I like abbreviations that can be spoken like they are an actual word. For instance, my first suggestion of "Chop Shop Homebrew Contest" would abbreviate to CSHC, which can't be spoken like a word. It's really personal preference there though.

Owrtho's suggestion is certainly interesting.

[Welknair]

It was a bit of a play on MUHAHAHAHA, because an evil laugh obviously would underline our hidden diabolical agenda behind this challenge. :smalltongue:

Semi-silly, though still somewhat serious suggestion. It was also partly because I like abbreviations that can be spoken like they are an actual word. For instance, my first suggestion of "Chop Shop Homebrew Contest" would abbreviate to CSHC, which can't be spoken like a word. It's really personal preference there though.

Owrtho's suggestion is certainly interesting.

Ah! "Oh yeah, I totally won the second Moohah!" :smalltongue:

Out of the name ideas we've heard so far, I'm currently in favor of Mixed Homebrew Arts.

We'll need someone to draft the trophies, won't we?