Focuse Transmuter Banned Schools Help

[Mightypickle]

Hi!

I've been a lurker in the forums for quite some time now, but I finally decided to create an account to ask for some help in the creation of a wizard. I believe the title is self explanatory.

First of all I must say I have read the wizard guides most often mentioned in this forum (meaning I know what it means to be both batman and god). But despite all that is said in those guides I'm still not sure about how to proceed.

The group I'll play in next, a fairly low-op group of friends, will include two wizards. One of them will be me, the other will be a friend of mine that will ban evocation, enchantment and necromancy. He will be specialist conjurer (not focused), and will probably go with initiate of the sevenfold veil and incantatrix (when he'll ban evocation, I believe). We start at level 1.

I'm not really set on a build, but I think I'm going master specialist/mage of the arcane order/archmage. I'm thinking of losing my familiar for immediate magic, even if it's not nearly as good for a transmuter. I really want spontaneous divination too.

But what I'm really worried about is my choice of banned schools. I'm certain I don't want enchantment, so that's out. Illusion isn't really my thing either, not for this character at least. But it really boils down to the third choice. At first I was certain I was going to ban evocation and have a happy life with what schools I had left, but recently I realized I really like some of the evocation spells, (I'm looking at you bugsby's expressive single-digit) stuff like windwall, forcecage, all the bugsby's (seriously, all of them), contingency and some others. The other choice for banning left was necromancy, which I rather like, despite not wanting anything to do with the undead.


My question really boils down to this: Considering the presence of another arcane caster in the party, will I regret choosing to keep evocation and banning necromancy? I always hear about how horrible evocation is, but I find it a rather fun school, and treantmonk's guide actually has a few nice spells. =P

I'm a gray elf, btw. True Neutral. And I need to be a focused specialist (not necessarily transmuter, but I can't be a conjurer either) for background reasons.

Thanks for reading =P

[Waker]

Well, if there is going to be another wizard, you could have your character go with a school that your friend has covered. Nothing wrong with banning abjuration or conjuration (gasp) unless you really want to use the spells yourself.
Necromancy's big shtick when you are a wizard is debuffing and a little bit of undead creation, so if neither of those are your thing you can drop that safely.

[Venusaur]

The problem with evocation is that you can replace the whole school with shadow evocation. Just keep illusion and you will be fine.

[NeoSeraphi]

Necromancy is actually a pretty small school, for wizards (at least, in Core). It's always a safe ban, especially if you're playing someone who isn't evil.

You most likely don't want to ban Abjuration, as dispelling is a really useful tool for you to have. Conjuration, while vast, is actually kind of dull, in my opinion. You can shoot acid, or teleport, or summon creatures of a vastly lower CR than you. Or heal status conditions. Either way, if there's going to be a specialist conjurer in the party, I'm guessing he'll have all your teleporting and summoning needs covered, so you'd be safe to drop that one.

That leaves Evocation. I would personally never ban evocation, but that's because every single one of my wizards will always take greater thunderclap forever, seriously. (3rd level spell, with 3 different save-or-suck effects all stacked together? Amazing!)

Also, sometimes you just need some DD, really. If the warrior is having trouble dealing with a creature with DR or regeneration, he's going to be looking to you to help him out, and if you can't blast, you can't help. (Blind him or nauseate him or BC him all you want, he's still not dead, and if he's not dead, he's still a threat. Maybe you can run away, but your spell will wear off, and he'll be back).

I'd suggest conjuration or necromancy as your banned school. Hope you enjoy playing a transmuter, and may you leave an enormous trail of statues in your wake once you hit level 11! :smallcool:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Conjurer won't have a third prohibited school unless he takes Incantatrix, in which case your 'fairly low-op' assessment goes completely out the window.

You can take the Fell Drain metamagic feat from Libris Mortis to make your damaging spells deal a negative level as well, which is the most useful thing you would be getting out of Necromancy. The only other reason to keep Necromancy is the spell Command Undead, but you can get that on an Eternal Wand (MIC) regardless of whether you would be able to cast it.

The point of keeping Illusion over Evocation is the fact that (Greater) Shadow Evocation can mimic every spell from that school up to the specified level. Plus Evocation is mostly offense, which you'll have plenty of from other schools, whereas Illusion gives you some of the best defensive spells (Mirror Image) plus tons of utility that other schools just can't replace. I'm pretty sure Mage of the Arcane Order will enable you to cast spells from a prohibited school anyway.

[Lactantius]

The problem with evocation is that you can replace the whole school with shadow evocation. Just keep illusion and you will be fine.


The point of keeping Illusion over Evocation is the fact that (Greater) Shadow Evocation can mimic every spell from that school up to the specified level.

One of the greatest fallacy ever.

People forget that:
- some campaigns end at mid-level;
- some tabels dont make use of high-level-play at all
(so that GSE is not available).

Even then, they make a worse trade-off by giving up a 7th-level-spell slot (!!) to emulate gust of wind, resilient sphere or contingecy.

Even then, they won't have access to very, very cood (and underestimated) high-level-evocations (if you play high-level, at all):
- Bigby's Grasping Hand is on of the best grappler and single-target-disabler
- Binding Chain of Fate is a multi-purpose disabler
- Elminster's Evasion is a decent multi-purpose-triggered contingency
- Chain Contingency can hold up too three triggered spells. Sure, it's T&B, but since this spell never got updated, it is the most actual and therefore apllicable spell. Forget Craft Contingent Spell.
- cost ratio is bad for spell level 2-4 evocations. And still, you miss alot iconic and good control spells.
- Making damage with evocation has style. Even fireballs can shine (searing fire metamagic). Or just use scintillating sphere. Or mastery of elements. Or elven spell lore.
- Some cleric evocations CAN be useful if you get them with arcane disciple. Think of the good domain which grants holy word, blade barrier and holy smite. All evocations.
- The power of conjuration (and so, orbs) is relative. Orbs use a very important spell level. At level 4, I want to memorize a dozen other spells before I think about single-target-damage. Enervation. Greater Invis. Greater Mirror Image. Heart of Earth. Resilient Sphere. Lesser Globe. Greater Resistance. Arcane Eye. Black Tentacles. Solid Fog. Dimensional Anchor. Voice of the Dragon. Wall of Good. Dispelling Screen.
Even an optimized focused specialist won't have enough slot to carry all the versatile spell AND orbs.
Heck, I would only memorize one orb spell (and that would be orb of force).

Kids, if you ban schools, then ban enchantment and necromancy. Third? oGo for illusion.

[Mightypickle]

The Conjurer won't have a third prohibited school unless he takes Incantatrix, in which case your 'fairly low-op' assessment goes completely out the window.


I don't understand what you mean. The fact that the group as a whole is low-op (meaning low optimization, in case that was not clear) is, I believe, unrelated to the fact that the conjurer is banning a third school from taking incantatrix. I would like you to elaborate on your comment. Honest, I really didn't get what you mean.

I would also like to point out that, despite the fact that the conjurer wishes to take two powerful, frequently recommended, PrC, he is in no way experienced in optimizing.


Anyway. I don't feel like banning Conjuration or Abjuration, as I would like my mage to maintain his independence as, according to the DM, the party won't always be together. And from what was said, I believe it only reinforced my feelings about necromancy being a safe bet to drop in these conditions. Thanks. And I will keep Greater Thunderclap in mind :smallsmile:

And to Lactantious: Thanks a lot for all the advice! That shed a new light on evocation for me. Could you tell me what book that Searing Metamagic is from? I'm interested, and haven't quite chosen all of my feats yet. Also, I'm sure I've heard of elven spell lore, but I don't really remember where it's from, nor what it does =P.

And about the point about (Greater) Shadow Evocation... I hardly feel that's fair. Is it the main reason that people ban evocation? The way I see it, it sounds like a single spell making an entire school of magic useless. From my, admitedly unexperienced, point of view that spell sounds quite unfair. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Waker]

The reason most people dislike Evocation is that direct damage is generally viewed as the least effective tactic for a mage. Combine this with a group of spells (Shadow Evocation) and a PrC (Shadowcraft Mage) and evocation can be almost completely replaced by another school.

Searing Spell is from Sandstorm. Elven Spell Lore is from PHBII.

If independence is a concern for your wizard, then hold on to Conjuration and drop necromancy. While the school does have some fun gems, it is primarily about debuffing or undead creation as I said before. If you aren't planning on being a necromancer, it is a safe school to ban.