Selling scrolls

[Invader]

If my character has an adventuring store in an average sized city (100,000-150,000 people, part of my backstory) and he's selling scrolls/equipment that he made, can't he sell them for market price?

[robertbevan]

at the end of the day, it's up to your DM. but for what it's worth, i don't have a problem with it.

[Invader]

at the end of the day, it's up to your DM. but for what it's worth, i don't have a problem with it.

I think he'd be ok with it as long as I didn't abuse it because I could very easily make ridiculous amounts of money as an artificer but I'm trying to only do it to supplement my crafting costs.

Realistically it costs me 263gp/1 day/28xp to make say a scroll of wall of fire which I could sell for 700gp for a profit of 437g a day.

Or you if you ruled that the base price was after my artisan discount I could arguably make 15 scrolls in 10 days for a profit of 8,133g.

[docnessuno]

If you go trought the trouble of setting up a true store yes, you should sell them for markcekt price.

But when you run a store you don't sell stuff when you want, you sell it when the customers requiire it, wich may be after a few days as well as after years.

Also, running a store of magical gear poses several important security issues. When your store holds easy-to-carry stuff worth thousands of GPs something is bound to happen sooner or later. How well you cope with it depends on the measures you took.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Should be fine, though final say does go to your DM. It's certainly not going to break the game. The whole point of the selling rule is to deepen the game itself. Merchants aren't going to pay you 100 gp for a thing they will only be able to sell for 100 gp, hence the rule. That doesn't apply when you're selling to lay people, not merchants.

[Amphetryon]

The issue is that the shopkeepers you sell them to - assuming you don't cut out the middleman entirely - still need to be able to turn a profit. They can't do that if they buy them from you at market price unless they inflate the scrolls' prices further before selling them, which puts them at a disadvantage vs. any other sellers who don't have a similar markup. For this reason, I rarely see Players able to sell scrolls and similar for more than 75% of market price, and 75% itself assumes a favorable and long-standing relationship with the shopkeeper.

[docnessuno]

Actually there's a feat (Mercantile background) that lets you sell for 75% of the market price.

[Acanous]

I've seen the house-rule that you use 50% as a starting value, then players roll a Diplomacy opposed by Diplomacy, Sense Motive, or Appraise, whichever is higher.
The end result adds to the 50%.
So, for instance, a party with a diplomancer at lv 6 could feasably pull a 50. The Merchant, a lv 1 Expert, could feasably pull a 30.
Worst rolls scenerio, the Diplomancer gets a 31, and the Merchant gets an 11.
(Assuming the merchant has a Mwk tool [magnifying glass, scale], took skill focus as a feat, has 4 ranks, and a +1 from INT, although this could be as high as +3 depending on stat array)

So with someone focused in Diplomacy, the party starts getting a markup. About 70% at most in the low levels. If you don't have a diplomancer, you can just sell for half. If you have a case of extremely bad rolls, and the merchant has high ones, he could talk YOU down on price.
(Although any party attempting this is likely to never be beaten by much)

If the party is level 10 or so, with higher diplomacy checks, to the point where you can start making 100% value, the merchant will buy it, but only if it carries the crafter's forgemark. (This magical hammer was made by Ulric the Unstoppable, forged of pure starmetal by the fires of a Red Dragon! Look, it carries his mark!)
That way it's a rare, well-known collectable, like a Masamune sword, and worth much more than just it's value as a weapon. (Or other item.)

Canny merchants could sell these items, marked up, to the crafter's enemies, who can use them as material focus for spels like Nightmare.

[Invader]

The issue is that the shopkeepers you sell them to - assuming you don't cut out the middleman entirely - still need to be able to turn a profit. They can't do that if they buy them from you at market price unless they inflate the scrolls' prices further before selling them, which puts them at a disadvantage vs. any other sellers who don't have a similar markup. For this reason, I rarely see Players able to sell scrolls and similar for more than 75% of market price, and 75% itself assumes a favorable and long-standing relationship with the shopkeeper.

75% of market price would be more than reasonable to me and it might fly better with my DM as well.


docnessuno
Re: Selling scrolls
Actually there's a feat (Mercantile background) that lets you sell for 75% of the market price.

I'd be fine with the feat but that would negate the need for a store.

[Invader]

I've seen the house-rule that you use 50% as a starting value, then players roll a Diplomacy opposed by Diplomacy, Sense Motive, or Appraise, whichever is higher.
The end result adds to the 50%.
So, for instance, a party with a diplomancer at lv 6 could feasably pull a 50. The Merchant, a lv 1 Expert, could feasably pull a 30.
Worst rolls scenerio, the Diplomancer gets a 31, and the Merchant gets an 11.
(Assuming the merchant has a Mwk tool [magnifying glass, scale], took skill focus as a feat, has 4 ranks, and a +1 from INT, although this could be as high as +3 depending on stat array)

So with someone focused in Diplomacy, the party starts getting a markup. About 70% at most in the low levels. If you don't have a diplomancer, you can just sell for half. If you have a case of extremely bad rolls, and the merchant has high ones, he could talk YOU down on price.
(Although any party attempting this is likely to never be beaten by much)

If the party is level 10 or so, with higher diplomacy checks, to the point where you can start making 100% value, the merchant will buy it, but only if it carries the crafter's forgemark. (This magical hammer was made by Ulric the Unstoppable, forged of pure starmetal by the fires of a Red Dragon! Look, it carries his mark!)
That way it's a rare, well-known collectable, like a Masamune sword, and worth much more than just it's value as a weapon. (Or other item.)

Canny merchants could sell these items, marked up, to the crafter's enemies, who can use them as material focus for spels like Nightmare.

The main point though is that I'm not selling to other merchants, since I have an actual store I'd be selling to regular customers. This store also acts as a means to sell all the unwanted gear/items our party finds while adventuring.

[jackattack]

If you can find an end-use customer (somebody who wants to buy a product to own or use it, not to sell it to someone else), then you should be able to sell it at full value. I would allow for diplomacy/negotiation checks to vary that price a bit, but you should be able to sell your goods to NPC adventurers for the same price you would be expected to pay if you were buying them from some other NPC.

Of course, the DM can also dictate or roll for overall demand, or set up competitors who are underselling you, to force you to adjust your prices.

Are you trying to make money with a particular goal in mind, or are you just trying to amass a large slush fund? As a DM, I would be more comfortable allowing full value sales if I knew that players were trying to save up enough money to buy a particular item, or to ransom the princess, or whatever, than I would be allowing players to simply earn enough gold to buy their way around all of my carefully laid out plans, bad guys, dangers, intrigues, and other plot points.

[Invader]

If you can find an end-use customer (somebody who wants to buy a product to own or use it, not to sell it to someone else), then you should be able to sell it at full value. I would allow for diplomacy/negotiation checks to vary that price a bit, but you should be able to sell your goods to NPC adventurers for the same price you would be expected to pay if you were buying them from some other NPC.

Of course, the DM can also dictate or roll for overall demand, or set up competitors who are underselling you, to force you to adjust your prices.

Are you trying to make money with a particular goal in mind, or are you just trying to amass a large slush fund? As a DM, I would be more comfortable allowing full value sales if I knew that players were trying to save up enough money to buy a particular item, or to ransom the princess, or whatever, than I would be allowing players to simply earn enough gold to buy their way around all of my carefully laid out plans, bad guys, dangers, intrigues, and other plot points.

I'm not trying to get rich, I just want to have a little cash flow coming in for crafting as an artificer. I have enough restraint to not try and make every wonderous item for my CL lol

[jackattack]

I'm not trying to get rich, I just want to have a little cash flow coming in for crafting as an artificer. I have enough restraint to not try and make every wonderous item for my CL lol

I could base a character on trying to make every wondrous item for my CL. :smile: