Leveling up to 6!

[Thump]

Our party just hit level 6, and I'm having difficulty choosing what my antipaladin should take as his next class level.

He currently has 5 levels in antipaladin, which means if he took another martial class, such as either a level of AP or hellknight, which he qualifies for, he could get a second attack.

Or, he could take a level of sorcerer and take advantage of his uber high charisma score and get 6 first level spells per day worth of two buffs, namely Critical Strike (Spell Compendium) and Fist of Stone (Spell Compendium)

OR, he could take a level of Monk, for better saves, and when he hits 7th level, evasion, to take advantage of his super high Reflex save.

I'm confused.

Help please?

[Black_Zawisza]

If power is your only concern, I would focus on Sorcerer from now on. You've got the right idea - you won't be focused enough enough on magic to play the standard arcanist role, so I would primarily get self-buffs as spells known.

[Lonely Tylenol]

3.5p, right?

I ask because Antipaladin is a Pathfinder class, but the Spell Compendium classes you listed are, eh... Not so much.

What versions of the classes (3.5 or PF) are you using? If PF, what race are you? What about ability scores? Feats (for the purpose of qualifying for PrCs)?

If you're playing in E6, then 6 martial levels are pretty much a necessity if you've already taken five. If not... Eh, notsomuch. A dip in Sorcerer as a Human would give you 5 spells (4 plus a bloodline), and you could probably advance levels of Abjurant Champion from there.

If you want full BAB progression on through, a level or so of Barbarian (if you're Chaotic) is good, as would be one or two of Crusader or Warblade 9both Tome of Battle).

[Thump]

3.5p, right?

I ask because Antipaladin is a Pathfinder class, but the Spell Compendium classes you listed are, eh... Not so much.

What versions of the classes (3.5 or PF) are you using? If PF, what race are you? What about ability scores? Feats (for the purpose of qualifying for PrCs)?

If you're playing in E6, then 6 martial levels are pretty much a necessity if you've already taken five. If not... Eh, notsomuch. A dip in Sorcerer as a Human would give you 5 spells (4 plus a bloodline), and you could probably advance levels of Abjurant Champion from there.

If you want full BAB progression on through, a level or so of Barbarian (if you're Chaotic) is good, as would be one or two of Crusader or Warblade 9both Tome of Battle).

I play a half-demon Tiefling (22 STR with +2 belt, 10 dex, 14 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 22 charisma) with PA, fiendish heritage, Channel Smite, necromantic affinity and a reverse Greater Lay on Hands (+1d6 to die roll) as feats (we get 1 per level).

Not playing E6, but we use Pathfinder classes, except paladins and antipaladins are only locked to Good and Evil axis (My antipaladin is LE)

EDIT: And yes, it is 3.P

[Fable Wright]

If you wanted to go with spellcasting, you could take one level of Sorcerer, take Combat Casting as your feat, and then proceed with Abjurant Champion. It grants you full BAB, the capstone ability would be insane, and it would make the dip a whole lot more satisfying. As for spells known, I would grab Shield with Fist of Stone to start out (since Shield qualifies for Abjurant Champion) and then get Wraithstrike and Wings of Cover for second level spells. After that, you could advance in another gish class like Knight Phantom or Swiftblade. Or just be happy with your dip that gave you a ton of options with your swift action each turn, and go back to melee classes.

[Thump]

If you wanted to go with spellcasting, you could take one level of Sorcerer, take Combat Casting as your feat, and then proceed with Abjurant Champion. It grants you full BAB, the capstone ability would be insane, and it would make the dip a whole lot more satisfying. As for spells known, I would grab Karmic Aura and Shield to start out, and then get Wraithstrike and Wings of Cover for second level spells. After that, you could advance in another gish class like Knight Phantom or Swiftblade. Or just be happy with your dip that gave you a ton of options with your swift action each turn, and go back to melee classes.

Well, I wouldn't be focusing on spellcasting much, hence the swift action spells and melee oriented spells that I was thinking of for a 1-level sorcerer dip. I'm the only melee fighter, other than the Oracle of Battle and the DMPC (which has something between 6 and 10 levels of Barbarian and 3 levels of cleric, but only usually shows for one encounter every two sessions now, with an average of five to nine encounters.)

[eggs]

It sounds like both pathfinder and 3e materials are available.
Most of Antipaladin's features are based on its class level (smite, touch of corruption, fiendish boon), so continued levels in the base class are solid.

The alternative I'd consider would be dipping Crusader, then advancing in Ruby Knight Vindicator. The Antipaladin's abilities would atrophy, but it would still get goodies like Unholy Sword and Litany of Madness, as well as maneuvers that scale a bit better into high levels.

[docnessuno]

Well, I wouldn't be focusing on spellcasting much, hence the swift action spells and melee oriented spells that I was thinking of for a 1-level sorcerer dip. I'm the only melee fighter, other than the Oracle of Battle and the DMPC (which has something between 6 and 10 levels of Barbarian and 3 levels of cleric, but only usually shows for one encounter every two sessions now, with an average of five to nine encounters.)

If you hace 22 Cha, are considering a Sorcerer dip and have access to Spell Compendium your best option is absolutely Sorcerer 1 for 6th level and Abjurant champon 1-5 for level 7-11. Wraitstrike will change your day, as will quickened shield granting 9 AC and other goodies.

[Fable Wright]

Well, I wouldn't be focusing on spellcasting much, hence the swift action spells and melee oriented spells that I was thinking of for a 1-level sorcerer dip. I'm the only melee fighter, other than the Oracle of Battle and the DMPC (which has something between 6 and 10 levels of Barbarian and 3 levels of cleric, but only usually shows for one encounter every two sessions now, with an average of five to nine encounters.)
Abjurant Champion sounds pretty nice, then. You get an extra 5 levels of casting, get the ability to cast Quickened shield for a +9 bonus to armor class, a high caster level for your dip to protect from Dispel effects, and a myriad of other bonuses, such as Quickened Dispel Magic at 5th level of the class. Combined with your CL of 10, that is pretty good at 11th level. There's also the option of going Dragon Discipline, if that interests you. I would really try for some of the higher-ish level spells, though. Wings of Cover is amazing, Wraithstrike is insane, and 3rd level spells include Heart of Water, which gives Freedom of Movement, which is nice. And if you get up to 4th level spells, Ruin Delver's Fortune gives you another huge boost to saves and Heart of Earth basically gives you Quickened Stoneskin. That's just my opinion, though. If you want to keep a small dip small, that's fine.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[ericgrau]

For critical strike, keep in mind that you're losing a point of BAB and the extra damage is situational, so your actual damage output per round (counting your hits) is a wash. A nice crit weapon could help improve that slightly.

Fist of stone has many problems the greatest of which is arcane spell failure in armor (since it has a Somatic component). It also takes a round to cast which often could be used to deal damage instead and it doesn't stack with magical strength items. I'd pick something else like feather fall, blades of fire or bladeweave.

So a sorcerer dip isn't actually the strongest thing around, but it's ok. It also provides entry into dragon disciple which is great for melee even though it's mediocre for casting.

Evasion is great if you have light armor. Light armor is good if you have a high dexterity, otherwise not so much. Likewise you lose a point of BAB, so it would be nice if you can utilize the bonus feats too. Like stunning fist if your wis is ok and later a ki focus weapon so you don't lose too much damage when you stun. I think people who dis stunning fist underestimate something you get for free action-wise. Just don't give up your damage or focus too much on wis and it's almost all gravy for little cost. Once you start paying significant resources for a minor boost that's where its bad rep comes from.

[Thump]

If you wanted to go with spellcasting, you could take one level of Sorcerer, take Combat Casting as your feat, and then proceed with Abjurant Champion. It grants you full BAB, the capstone ability would be insane, and it would make the dip a whole lot more satisfying. As for spells known, I would grab Shield with Fist of Stone to start out (since Shield qualifies for Abjurant Champion) and then get Wraithstrike and Wings of Cover for second level spells. After that, you could advance in another gish class like Knight Phantom or Swiftblade. Or just be happy with your dip that gave you a ton of options with your swift action each turn, and go back to melee classes.

Er..

hurr...

forgot about arcane spell failure. In full plate? Not gonna take a level of sorcerer, which bars Abjurant Champion.

Is there any other class that would be able to fill a one-man melee army sort of role, disregarding ToB (We don't have the book)?

[ericgrau]

Spells without a somatic component (S) can be cast in armor. Most swift and immediate spells qualify, which are the best for you anyway since you really want your standard to stab foes.

Full plate does OTOH kill evasion.

[Lonely Tylenol]

In addition to Critical Strike, a couple useful spells that you may consider grabbing with Sorcerer 1/Abjurant Champion 5:

Level 0
Resistance

Level 1
Distract Assailant
Protection from X
Shield
Shock and Awe

Level 2
Alter Self (you're a Tiefling!)
Bladeweave
Resist Energy[/i] (better at CL 7, so throw in a level of Spellsword at the end if you can)
Scintillating Scales (because of Alter Self)
Wraithstrike[/I]

Level 3
Disobedience
Dispel Magic
Karmic Backlash
Magic Circle Against X
Protection from Energy
Reflect Arrows

Level 4
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Ray Deflection
Resist Energy, Mass

These are all in addition to the usual staples and good spells for all Wizards/Sorcerers at each level, such as Haste/Slow and Fly

If went Sorcerer 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Sorcerer +1 from here, you would lose only 1 BAB and have only two HD that are low (D6s if you're using Pathfinder versions), but you would gain access to fourth-level spells (8/5/3/2/1 known, starting at cantrips), including some generally awesome combat-beneficial spells (Wraithstrike and Bladeweave), and of course, all of the Abjuration spells you cast (Shield, Reflect Arrows, Stoneskin, and Resist Energy being good options among them) are Quickened and Extended. You could treat your spells known as a sort of toolbox, grabbing the essential Abjuration spells and casting them with your swift actions on a whim.

And then there are the absurd combinations. You could, if given the possibility, use Alter Self and Scintillating Scales together to devastating effect; for example, casting Alter Self at the beginning of your day could turn you into an Advespa for 7 Natural Armor and a Fly speed, or a Dwarven Ancestor for 18 (!!!!) Natural Armor, and then use Scintillating Scales to convert that Natural Armor bonus to a Deflection bonus, allowing it to apply to your touch AC, and (in the case of Dwarven Ancestor) keeping your regular armor and equipment, since they don't need to meld into your body and become nonfunctional if the form is similar enough.

A slew of caster levels could be the best thing that could happen to your melee ability.

[KnightOfV]

Depends on what you are wanting.

If you want crazy ultimate power, (and to potentially make the DM hate you, depending on the optimization of the game) Sorcerer shenanigans have been covered thoroughly above.

These suggestions are a little more straightforward:
If you are fighting lots of Good aligned things, stick with Anti-pally for more Smiting sooner and better Lay on Hands Hurt.

If you want to deal even more damage that is not alignment restricted dip Fighter for your choice of Vital Strike, Lunge, or Furious Focus, all very solid feats, and you just now qualify for some of them at lv. 6. All of these are pathfinder core.

Monk is good if you want to make your saving throws even more crazy, and gives some neat 'my body is a weapon' flavor.

Personally, I would go Fighter and get Vital Strike to optimize the move/hit game, or Lunge to set up your new full attacks easier. Either way is more damage, and yay, more Fort. Save as a bonus.

Good luck!

[prufock]

There's always the classic Hexblade combo. Take 4 levels, you get Hexblade's Curse to impose a -2 to everything (allows a save - just make sure you get them within your aura of cowardice first), an additional +cha to saves (better than monk, certainly), and replace Summon Familiar with the Dark Companion alternate class feature for an additional -2 saves.

You won't be much of a spellcaster, but if you have another caster in the party the penalties to saves can really help out.

[Thump]

Well, I've decided on taking four levels of hexblade, and since we have a Witch, a Wizard, an Oracle, and an Assassin in the party, I figured that taking it with the suggested fixes with http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7412.0 and taking the Dark Companion, for a total of -4 on all saves with hexes, and another -4 on saves versus fear, which is actually pretty amazing, considering the Witch likes fear spells, and the Oracle enjoys using Murderous Command on enemies that I tag with Know Greatest Foe (spell compendium, all Blackguard spells are treated as antipaladin spells).

[nedz]

There's always the Marshal dip [MinH] which gives you Cha to one of a choice of things. Its not full BAB though but might have mileage ?

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Why not Dragon Disciple?
Pathfinder Dragon Disciple is not bad.