Colonizing the Abyss

[Craft (Cheese)]

So, for campaign reasons, I need to design a city in the Abyss. Not just a demonic city, but one built, populated, and run solely by humanoid settlers. It needs to comfortably support a population of 100,000+, while simultaneously protecting its citizens from both the environment itself and from near-continuous assault from billion-strong demonic armies.

Now, I could just pull some vaguely defined ubermagic, but that's the boring solution. What are some ways I could make this work within the rules?

- Let's avoid epic magic if we can. Wish and gate loops and the like are also less than desirable because, really, is there any problem that those things can't solve?

- Messing with simply making the city undetectable, or allying with the demons so they don't attack you, while probably the most practical solution, is undesirable because it really sidesteps the problem. Assume you can't hide from or negotiate with the demons, so they're going to be coming to attack you no matter what.

- It can be strategically placed anywhere within the abyss that you desire, so long as it fits the intention of being a comfortable place nested in an unimaginably hostile environment. "Just place it on the layer of fluffy bunnies where no nasty demons can attack you and everything's made of cotton candy" is cheating.

- Finally, handwaving the construction of the city is acceptable. Assume you have infinite time to get the defenses set up before the demons start coming.

[Little Brother]

Flight is obviously desirable. Weirdstones throughout the city are needed. Enough layered (Permanent)Forbiddances, with small spaces between them, cast by a LG caster should be able to kill weak demons approaching, but does have the downside of killing other things approaching the city. Your real worry is Balors. Soldiers of some sort would be needed to deal with the few that get through.

Really, though, miles of layered forbiddances and/or huge numbers of Prismatic Walls are your best bet. A permanent gate of some sort for trade/transit is going to be needed.

[kardar233]

Well, you could use a Mythal, but that's too easy.

Maximized Empowered Purified Holy Lawful Good-aligned Forbiddances will severely mess up any demons that come along and stop them from teleporting in. Secure all physical entrances with Chaotic Evil-aligned Emerald Legionnaires (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587). I don't know of any demons with Wish, but just in case you'll need to cover your city with Greater Anticipate Teleport, giving you three rounds of warning in case some nasty is coming in. That should cover most of it.

[Eldariel]

Well, you could use a Mythal, but that's too easy.

Maximized Empowered Purified Holy Lawful Good-aligned Forbiddances will severely mess up any demons that come along and stop them from teleporting in. Secure all physical entrances with Chaotic Evil-aligned Emerald Legionnaires (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587). I don't know of any demons with Wish, but just in case you'll need to cover your city with Greater Anticipate Teleport, giving you three rounds of warning in case some nasty is coming in. That should cover most of it.

Glabrezu have a Wish available.

[Little Brother]

Well, you could use a Mythal, but that's too easy

Maximized Empowered Purified Holy Lawful Good-aligned Forbiddances will severely mess up any demons that come along and stop them from teleporting in. Secure all physical entrances with Chaotic Evil-aligned Emerald Legionnaires. I don't know of any demons with Wish, but just in case you'll need to cover your city with Greater Anticipate Teleport, giving you three rounds of warning in case some nasty is coming in. That should cover most of it.Balors have wish.

And GAT doesn't affect wish. Therein lies the problem. We need a method to deal with high-level demons popping in. I like a bunch of flying golems(Shadesteel golems are best, IIRC), to just go out and swarm the Balor.

[Eldariel]

Balors have wish.

They do not (not directly anyways; but they can summon Glabrezu with Wish). You're thinking of Pit Fiends (or maybe Solars).

[The Gilded Duke]

I'm not sure if it suits your purposes, but there already exists a city in the abyss that might work for your concept. The monster Dalmosh is found in Monster Manual V. He is an abyssal creature that lives in the mountains of flesh, a mountain range that stretches across multiple layers of the abyss. He constantly eats, and can never permanently die. In his stomach is a portal to a pocket dimension.

Over time many creatures have ended up in this pocket dimension, without the means to escape. They have built entire cities inside of it, ruled over by a Rakshasa. They survive off of the bits that come through.

If that doesn't work, I think forbearance might not be the way to go. Teleport and wish require you to know the location of where you are teleporting to. One way to defeat this might be to have the city move. Could have it be a bunch of airships tied together, or some sort of burrowing device, or even a fleet in an abyssal sea.

As long as the fleet avoids any obvious landmarks, there shouldn't be any indication as to where they are. If I remember correctly there are infinite layers to the Abyss. Should be able to find some place generic enough, or obscure enough not to be easily identified.

Then while your settlement is moving, you only have to deal with the demons that you encounter along the way, which should be much easier.

[Ravens_cry]

This is a simply brilliant idea, if you can work out the kinks.
After all, there is infinite layers to the Abyss, and therefore infinite Lebensraum.
I don't really have much to add, but it would certainly make for an interesting campaign setting and I await the results with interest.

[kardar233]

And GAT doesn't affect wish. Therein lies the problem. We need a method to deal with high-level demons popping in. I like a bunch of flying golems(Shadesteel golems are best, IIRC), to just go out and swarm the Balor.


Any teleportation spell or effect (including all spells with the teleportation descriptor)

is what GAT affects. The "transport travelers" clause of Wish is clearly a teleportation effect of some kind, and thus would be slowed down.

Really, it's not that essential. It just means that the Balor will get at least a Blasphemy off before he gets piled on.

Actually, I think the security force should be Hoods. Leap tall buildings in a single bound to get to your target and instantly kill him with a Power Attack.

[Little Brother]

They do not (not directly anyways; but they can summon Glabrezu with Wish). You're thinking of Pit Fiends (or maybe Solars).Thinking of Pit Fiends.

And Glabrezu have to grant it to a mortal humanoid. So they need to FIND a humanoid and torture him into wishing the Glabrezu and his Balor buddies into the city.

EDIT:
is what GAT affects. The "transport travelers" clause of Wish is clearly a teleportation effect of some kind, and thus would be slowed down. It is not specified as a teleportation effect, therefore it is not.

Really, it's not that essential. It just means that the Balor will get at least a Blasphemy off before he gets piled on. Yeah, it'll only kill a couple dozen people, right?

Actually, I think the security force should be Hoods. Leap tall buildings in a single bound to get to your target and instantly kill him with a Power Attack.Golems can be mass-produced. High-level humanoids can't.

Wizard/Cleric 1/Dweomerkeeper would actually be the best security force. SU wish means it can teleport in without blowing a lot of XP. Then, celerity, Time stop, prep whatever it needs, and kill the bajeebus out of the demons. One or two could do that by them selves, depending on how frequent the incursions are. Best bet would be a bound(Or willing) or Simulacrum Weird doing divinations to give you some warning about the incursions, so you can evacuate the area or some such.

If serious cheese is allowed, I'd use the Mephit Simulacrum Factory to produce a bajillion of casters and soldiers.

[Eldariel]

Thinking of Pit Fiends.

And Glabrezu have to grant it to a mortal humanoid. So they need to FIND a humanoid and torture him into wishing the Glabrezu and his Balor buddies into the city.

Meh. Demons can be resourceful; I'm sure they can summon and mindrape some humanoid. I wouldn't be surprised if they had few hapless, conditioned commoners in store for this very reason.

[Alleran]

Meh. Demons can be resourceful; I'm sure they can summon and mindrape some humanoid. I wouldn't be surprised if they had few hapless, conditioned commoners in store for this very reason.
What would stop the humanoid in question from instead wishing that they either be returned to the city or to the mortal plane? The Glabrezu is giving them a wish. Torturing somebody until they agree to make a wish for you doesn't seem like a very good idea, unless the Glabrezu isn't required to use the wish once they've told the mortal that they will grant them their wish (so it could keep on saying "no, not that one" until the humanoid makes a wish that it agrees with).

[Eldariel]

What would stop the humanoid in question from instead wishing that they either be returned to the city or to the mortal plane? The Glabrezu is giving them a wish. Torturing somebody until they agree to make a wish for you doesn't seem like a very good idea, unless the Glabrezu isn't required to use the wish once they've told the mortal that they will grant them their wish (so it could keep on saying "no, not that one" until the humanoid makes a wish that it agrees with).

Mindrape? Hell, simple Dominate Person would do. Not to mention, your average human commoner isn't very hard to break. And the Glabrezu decides what Wish to grant. They don't just say "Ok, wish granted. Now tell me what you're wishing."

[kharmakazy]

What popped into my head first was a localized zone sort of like a planar breach where the city was built. Completely inhospitable to anyone but the citizens. Something like the vacuum of space very close to a star.

Alternatively make all the colonist werebears. No demon want's to risk being lawful good. (I'm aware this doesn't work... but I find the idea hilarious. It would be like a leper colony)

[JellyPooga]

Golems should almost certainly feature in some aspect of the city guard. Their immunity to magic and ability to stay on watch indefinitely is going to be a massive boon to the kind of hardcore defence this city will need.

Alternatively, Warforged might make an appropriate substitute if you wanted to keep the number of high-level magic users down.

[Waker]

What brought the settlers to the Abyss in the first place? Where did they come from prior to this? Answering those questions will probably help give ideas as to building their city.
Anyways though, I think the idea of a moving city has some merit. A city made up of lashed together balloons or a city of ships would be harder to besiege. The other option would be a mountain stronghold, either on top of or built into. Either way you need to find a way to hinder the demons greatest advantage, their superior numbers.
Constructs are a good idea, if the people of the city are a bit evilish, they might consider using extracted pain to pay for some of the costs. Alternatively, undead are far easier to create and can demonstrate intelligence.
Lastly how about asking for help from other Outsiders? I'm sure the Devils or Angels would love to have an outpost in the Abyss when they need a place to gather supplies or lick their wounds while in enemy territory.

[JeminiZero]

First of all: Sacred Item (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13206080&postcount=32). This is an excellent spell for defending against demons since there is virtually no friendly fire to hapless humanoids.

Go full Tippy-esque self-resetting traps. You can blanket the city with this spell so that any demon attempting to teleport in will drop dead the moment he steps on the cobblestone ground. Have teams of workers going around to replace spent objects with freshly blessed Sacred Items.

Of course you'll be in trouble if he teleports in mid-air, away from any Sacred Item surface. So additional some measures might be in order. Some ideas:

*Turn your humanoids into Tuckers Humanoids. Make the city itself entirely out of twisting maze of passages, barely large enough for 2 men (or maybe even just 1) to walk through. Have all surfaces of the passages be removable stones that can be blessed with sacred item (on a semi-related note, the spell Stick might be useful here). Then if anything big teleports in, it will pretty much be pressed against a surface by the limited space, and it will drop dead the moment it appears.

*A speck of dust counts as an object. Have some of your self-resetting traps cranking out Sacred Item dust. Then just maintain reasonably windy conditions around the entire city, ensuring the circulation of said dust. How big is a Pit Fiend? I'm not sure. But I'll bet that we can fit LOTS of dust specks into his space. Of course the people might not appreciate living in what amounts to a constant (if mild) duststorm.

As an extension to (2), maybe design the city to have a one directional flow of wind and dust (e.g. north to south). Then have an area of circular wind around the outside of the city. So then when the dust reaches south, pump it out of the city and into the circulating winds to ensure a dust cloud on the outside as well. This also helps you ensure that any dust circulating within the city is reasonably "fresh".

These are just ideas for guarding the inner city. I'll leave ideas on securing the city walls to others. Like this one: :smallbiggrin:


Secure all physical entrances with Chaotic Evil-aligned Emerald Legionnaires (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587).

[Ravens_cry]

Golems should almost certainly feature in some aspect of the city guard. Their immunity to magic and ability to stay on watch indefinitely is going to be a massive boon to the kind of hardcore defence this city will need.

Alternatively, Warforged might make an appropriate substitute if you wanted to keep the number of high-level magic users down.
Undead could also potentially be of use, being immune to certain kinds of magic.
What level would a city sized Protection from Evil be?

[Alabenson]

Thinking of Pit Fiends.

And Glabrezu have to grant it to a mortal humanoid. So they need to FIND a humanoid and torture him into wishing the Glabrezu and his Balor buddies into the city.


Given that glabrezu are demons, I'd say this is less of a bug and more of a feature.

[Slipperychicken]

The Devils have been fighting Demons for pretty much the whole Blood War. Maybe they "conquered" part of the Abyss, and are opening to colonists willing to (eventually, subtly) resign their souls to Hell. Maybe they advertise it as a "fresh start" for Evil folk (cultists, murderers, criminals) who would be hunted/persecuted in the Material Plane.

[legomaster00156]

The Devils have been fighting Demons for pretty much the whole Blood War. Maybe they "conquered" part of the Abyss, and are opening to colonists willing to (eventually, subtly) resign their souls to Hell. Maybe they advertise it as a "fresh start" for Evil folk (cultists, murderers, criminals) who would be hunted/persecuted in the Material Plane.
"Welcome to sunny Burningwater, 12th layer of the Abyss! Well, ok, actually, there's no sun. All of the warmth of this plane comes from the... burning... water. You can move to a pristine riverside villa for the low, low price of your immortal soul!
Nothing is considered a crime in this land... besides, of course, angering your devil superiors, which will result in a slow, painful death, followed immediately by your soul being taken to any of the Nine Layers of Hell to be eternally damned to slave labor in the burning pits. Besides that, feel free to steal, cheat, and murder*!
In order to take advantage of this great deal, merely make a summoning ritual with the call number 1-800-ABYSS. Be sure to provide a sentient lifeform as sacrifice to keep our attention.

* Asmodeus Prime Plots is not responsible for being cheated, stolen from, or murdered."

[heronbpv]

A floating moving montain to base off a city is not new exactly, and probably solve some of your security problems. Now make the entire mountain (along with it's inhabitants) able to also move between layers (and avoid the domains of known demon princes) and you problably found a basic structure to work. Without epic magic, I think it's still doable to use circle magic and a cabal of arcanists of all sorts (not only mages) to create a device to suport the mountain and these functions I mentioned (as well as any other you find necessary).

This is all based on a floating mercant city of an campaign setting named Tormenta, but it exists only in portuguese. If you know the language and are willing to take a deeper look in the idea, search for "Vectora, cidade na nuvems".

[Arcanist]

First of all: Sacred Item (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13206080&postcount=32). This is an excellent spell for defending against demons since there is virtually no friendly fire to hapless humanoids.

Go full Tippy-esque self-resetting traps. You can blanket the city with this spell so that any demon attempting to teleport in will drop dead the moment he steps on the cobblestone ground. Have teams of workers going around to replace spent objects with freshly blessed Sacred Items.

Of course you'll be in trouble if he teleports in mid-air, away from any Sacred Item surface. So additional some measures might be in order. Some ideas:

*Turn your humanoids into Tuckers Humanoids. Make the city itself entirely out of twisting maze of passages, barely large enough for 2 men (or maybe even just 1) to walk through. Have all surfaces of the passages be removable stones that can be blessed with sacred item (on a semi-related note, the spell Stick might be useful here). Then if anything big teleports in, it will pretty much be pressed against a surface by the limited space, and it will drop dead the moment it appears.

*A speck of dust counts as an object. Have some of your self-resetting traps cranking out Sacred Item dust. Then just maintain reasonably windy conditions around the entire city, ensuring the circulation of said dust. How big is a Pit Fiend? I'm not sure. But I'll bet that we can fit LOTS of dust specks into his space. Of course the people might not appreciate living in what amounts to a constant (if mild) duststorm.

As an extension to (2), maybe design the city to have a one directional flow of wind and dust (e.g. north to south). Then have an area of circular wind around the outside of the city. So then when the dust reaches south, pump it out of the city and into the circulating winds to ensure a dust cloud on the outside as well. This also helps you ensure that any dust circulating within the city is reasonably "fresh".

These are just ideas for guarding the inner city. I'll leave ideas on securing the city walls to others. Like this one: :smallbiggrin:

A City like this would not be worth living in :smallconfused: the constant storms of sacred dust however would make it worth it living however making the entire city a labyrinth where humans can just barely fit through would be terrible... Humans need places to run around, breath, and... well live... otherwise we matter as well just be corpses :smallfrown:

I like your idea, its just the way you presented the idea sounds pretty horrid...

Set Weirdstones at the top of each building to prevent teleportation and sacred item bless the cobblestone of the city and that should effectively keep the demons at bay


A floating moving montain to base off a city is not new exactly, and probably solve some of your security problems. Now make the entire mountain (along with it's inhabitants) able to also move between layers (and avoid the domains of known demon princes) and you problably found a basic structure to work. Without epic magic, I think it's still doable to use circle magic and a cabal of arcanists of all sorts (not only mages) to create a device to suport the mountain and these functions I mentioned (as well as any other you find necessary).

I've had a game where I had to lead an entire people through the abyss on the back of a flying enclave... the most important problems weren't food, or demons, or anything like that, it was the entire Abyss itself... Citizens went crazy becoming psychopaths murdering each other, eventually beginning to worship the Demon Lords surrounding them, Soon wild demon summoning became common place in the city... So just remember... in most of the outer planes its not the inhabitants that you should be worrying about, its the very forces of the plane itself...

Lets keep in mind that in this game I had Epic Magic at my disposal and even then it was still really hard to survive in the abyss... There is a reason the Demon Princes still rule the abyss with so many Epic Spellcasters in the multiverse...

Read the last 5 or so chapters of Uzumaki (http://www.mangareader.net/1358/uzumaki.html) to know what its like being a humanoid living in the abyss...

[heronbpv]

I've had a game where I had to lead an entire people through the abyss on the back of a flying enclave... the most important problems weren't food, or demons, or anything like that, it was the entire Abyss itself... Citizens went crazy becoming psychopaths murdering each other, eventually beginning to worship the Demon Lords surrounding them, Soon wild demon summoning became common place in the city... So just remember... in most of the outer planes its not the inhabitants that you should be worrying about, its the very forces of the plane itself...

Lets keep in mind that in this game I had Epic Magic at my disposal and even then it was still really hard to survive in the abyss... There is a reason the Demon Princes still rule the abyss with so many Epic Spellcasters in the multiverse...

Read the last 5 or so chapters of Uzumaki (http://www.mangareader.net/1358/uzumaki.html) to know what its like being a humanoid living in the abyss...

Certainly, but keep in mind I only addressed one of his problems (namely location). There's still quite the amount of other problems to deal with of course ^^
Also, reference taken, and I do believe I can get it in portuguese to read as well. :D

[Craft (Cheese)]

What brought the settlers to the Abyss in the first place? Where did they come from prior to this? Answering those questions will probably help give ideas as to building their city.

A group of 6 high-level casters discovered a limited (but still very useful) way to tap into the Abyss's natural ability to spontaneously reform itself. Problem was they had to be physically in the Abyss for this to work, so they set up a base to work in. They brought their servants and hirelings, and the servants and hirelings eventually brought their families, and the city grew and built up from that.

Think of the way mining towns start up. The economy built by the families who support the miners can be strong enough to survive long after the mine dries up, so I thought it would be pretty plausible if I can figure out how to defend it effectively. (Though the casters haven't left.)

The city's current economy is based on being a great hub of planar trade, and the magic item production that comes naturally with having the highest concentration of high-level characters in the multiverse. It's basically my campaign's Sigil.

Anyway, everyone has great ideas! A few things I wanted to comment on specifically:

- Forbiddance is an obvious idea, but the city's ruling class features a full spectrum of alignments (chaotic evil included), so I can see this being a problem. Said alignment differences is also a strike against the other obvious idea of recruiting devils or celestials. Besides, there also needs to be a safe area where teleportation is possible for the whole "planar trade" idea to work.

- The cyclic sacred dust storm is fantastic, but it only targets evil outsiders, right? Otherwise I'll have the same alignment problem as Forbiddance. Magic items of "Overcoat of keeping dust out of your face" would also be popular, and it'd be a powerful image of a city with a constant golden duststorm while everyone wears identical coats that mask their appearance. I've never seen a city like that before!

- Hearing that a floating, traveling city is the safest route is also fantastic, since that's sorta what I already wanted to do. I had the idea to build the city on a set of floating earthmotes that are chained together.

- I'll have to read the emerald legion thing more thoroughly before I can start asking questions about it, but an army of Tarrasques already sounds awesome.

- I have one more idea that I'm not sure I'll be able to implement without breaking my own rules: I wanted to implement a system where the city's layout constantly changes, with some parts being real and some parts being illusory/simulacra/whatever. Let demons fill up the fake parts and think they're winning, then detonate. Still cool enough I'd be willing to let it slide if it turns out to be impossible without homebrew/fiat.

[Arcanist]

A group of 6 high-level casters discovered a limited (but still very useful) way to tap into the Abyss's natural ability to spontaneously reform itself. Problem was they had to be physically in the Abyss for this to work, so they set up a base to work in. They brought their servants and hirelings, and the servants and hirelings eventually brought their families, and the city grew and built up from that.

Make them Circle Magic users or a cabal of Epic Spellcasters... it makes the next part much more funny


- Forbiddance is an obvious idea, but the city's ruling class features a full spectrum of alignments (chaotic evil included), so I can see this being a problem. Said alignment differences is also a strike against the other obvious idea of recruiting devils or celestials. Besides, there also needs to be a safe area where teleportation is possible for the whole "planar trade" idea to work.

Purifying City spell trick works (Think Locate City Bomb but with Purify spell) so it clears out anything that isn't Good, just cast that each day and your city can remain Good and Pure...:smallamused:


- The cyclic sacred dust storm is fantastic, but it only targets evil outsiders, right? Otherwise I'll have the same alignment problem as Forbiddance. Magic items of "Overcoat of keeping dust out of your face" would also be popular, and it'd be a powerful image of a city with a constant golden duststorm while everyone wears identical coats that mask their appearance. I've never seen a city like that before!

It only targets Evil Outsiders yes. homebrewed item coming up :smallamused:


Overcoat of Pure Winds

Description: Crafted in a desert locked city thats name has been lost through out the ages, it grants its wearer a permanent wall of wind to protect them from dust and a barrier that protects them from mind control and domination

Faint Abjuration/Evocation; Craft Wondrous items; CL 5th; Wind Wall, Protection from Evil; Wearer must be Good; Price 98,000gp


- Hearing that a floating, traveling city is the safest route is also fantastic, since that's sorta what I already wanted to do. I had the idea to build the city on a set of floating earthmotes that are chained together.

Proctiv's Move Mountain will get you where you need to go and Ioulaum's Imbue Mythallar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13180795&postcount=1) will allow you to create Quasi-Magical items which if memory serves are 1/4th the cost and only work while inside the Mythallars radius (1 mile outwards)

This in addition to the Overcoat only being usable by Good aligned citizens and being completely in effective outside the city make it so that Demons can't just steal an Overcoat and go on a rampage... I know there is more ways to make it so that Demons can't get near the city but I can't think of them off the top of my head right now...

Making the Overcoat a Quasi-Magical item will make it cost 24,500gp every precaution is necessary for a humanoid to have any hope of a permanent dwelling in the abyss... :smallamused:


- I have one more idea that I'm not sure I'll be able to implement without breaking my own rules: I wanted to implement a system where the city's layout constantly changes, with some parts being real and some parts being illusory/simulacra/whatever. Let demons fill up the fake parts and think they're winning, then detonate. Still cool enough I'd be willing to let it slide if it turns out to be impossible without homebrew/fiat.

You can fluff it so that the Plane of Shadows leaks into the city creating Quasi-Real constructs and sections of the city :smallsmile:

[Waker]

I'm not gonna get too detailed with this as I'm lazy.
The "city" of Megiddo is actually a collection of balloons, gliders and random debris lashed together. Due to the forbidding nature of the Abyss, it's residents took to the sky rather than risk the demons in residence. Megiddo is constantly on the move making it difficult to besiege. In order to prevent any airborne incursions, the mages of the city frequently cast control weather to whip up powerful windstorms. Teleportation and divination attempts are prevented via a combination of Hallowed Dimensional Anchor and Permanent Mage's Private Sanctum. Entrance into the city is allowed by one of two means; either the creation of a tunnel of calm wind with Control Wind or teleportation onto the one ship not warded against such an effect.
The city stands aloof of most of the events of the Abyss, save for the homage paid to Pazuzu. In order to be allowed safe passage in the sky, the residents pay a yearly tribute to the demon lord.
After death, all residents who have not paid a special exemption tax are reanimated to serve as guards and common laborers for a period of X years.

[JeminiZero]

A City like this would not be worth living in :smallconfused: the constant storms of sacred dust however would make it worth it living however making the entire city a labyrinth where humans can just barely fit through would be terrible... Humans need places to run around, breath, and... well live... otherwise we matter as well just be corpses :smallfrown:

I like your idea, its just the way you presented the idea sounds pretty horrid...

Admittedly it does sound like a horrible way to live. You're trying to survive the Abyss here. Sacrifices have to be made. :smallfrown:


- The cyclic sacred dust storm is fantastic, but it only targets evil outsiders, right?

More precisely, Evil Outsiders, Shapechangers, and all Undead. Your city won't be able to house evil changelings or lycanthropes (but who wants those guys? they're nothing but trouble!). Undead army (an admittedly useful tool) also is incompatible. But it does also help keep out vampires, and prevent shadows and wightpocalypse chain reactions.


- I'll have to read the emerald legion thing more thoroughly before I can start asking questions about it, but an army of Tarrasques already sounds awesome.

Incidentally, Emerald Legion count as lycanthropes. While they can't be hurt by Sacred Item, it does discharge it, IF they are evil. If you do try to combine them with Sacred Dust, you should probably only use neutral or good troops.

[heronbpv]

Just wondering, what are the enviroment effects of the abyss, as well as the planar ones? I think having them listed here would help quite a lot into tackling each one.

[Waker]

Just wondering, what are the enviroment effects of the abyss, as well as the planar ones? I think having them listed here would help quite a lot into tackling each one.

The environment varies depending on which layer of the Abyss you are on. Oceans, canyons, swamps and more are potential options. Basically any kind of environment can dominate an entire layer.
The usual planar traits are normal gravity, time and magic. Infinite size, divinely morphic, mixed elemental and energy traits and mildly chaotic and evil aligned. Individual planes may exhibit different traits though.

[SSGoW]

Why not make it where the colonist are actually being sent there against their will? Perhaps a government has to many people/made a pact with the demons so that the demons give them a wish for every X number of souls sent to this city. The city protection and gaurd is fake and have it where the demons need X many souls to perform a ritual and won't attack/kill all the mortals till they have what they need...

To expand on the "against their will" ... They were originally criminals/politcal activist or just unlucky people who got an "all expense paid" trip to a new city. Some where told its for the greater good and others were told to deal with it.

There is always an iincoming number of people however everyone mating (silly humans) is what is giving the biggest population increase....

[Waker]

To expand on the "against their will" ... They were originally criminals/politcal activist or just unlucky people who got an "all expense paid" trip to a new city. Some where told its for the greater good and others were told to deal with it.

(Don't say Australia, don't say Australia, don't say Australia.)
So this new colony could be called...Maustralia? (Nice catch.)

[SSGoW]

Yeah... As I was typing that on my little phone keyboard I figured someone from Australia was going to get mad at me -_-;

But yeah I think a government that had access to wishes from demons would send their people to the abyss.

Harshes J-Walking punishment on the material plane.

[TuggyNE]

Overcoat of Pure Winds

Description: Crafted in a desert locked city thats name has been lost through out the ages, it grants its wearer a permanent wall of wind to protect them from dust and a barrier that protects them from mind control and domination

Faint Abjuration/Evocation; Craft Wondrous items; CL 5th; Wind Wall, Protection from Evil; Wearer must be Good; Price 98,000gp

Pretty sure the OP mentioned that many citizens of the city are Neutral, or even Evil.



First of all: Sacred Item (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13206080&postcount=32). This is an excellent spell for defending against demons since there is virtually no friendly fire to hapless humanoids.

Go full Tippy-esque self-resetting traps. You can blanket the city with this spell so that any demon attempting to teleport in will drop dead the moment he steps on the cobblestone ground. Have teams of workers going around to replace spent objects with freshly blessed Sacred Items.

Of course you'll be in trouble if he teleports in mid-air, away from any Sacred Item surface. So additional some measures might be in order. Some ideas:

*Turn your humanoids into Tuckers Humanoids. Make the city itself entirely out of twisting maze of passages, barely large enough for 2 men (or maybe even just 1) to walk through. Have all surfaces of the passages be removable stones that can be blessed with sacred item (on a semi-related note, the spell Stick might be useful here). Then if anything big teleports in, it will pretty much be pressed against a surface by the limited space, and it will drop dead the moment it appears.

*A speck of dust counts as an object. Have some of your self-resetting traps cranking out Sacred Item dust. Then just maintain reasonably windy conditions around the entire city, ensuring the circulation of said dust. How big is a Pit Fiend? I'm not sure. But I'll bet that we can fit LOTS of dust specks into his space. Of course the people might not appreciate living in what amounts to a constant (if mild) duststorm.

As an extension to (2), maybe design the city to have a one directional flow of wind and dust (e.g. north to south). Then have an area of circular wind around the outside of the city. So then when the dust reaches south, pump it out of the city and into the circulating winds to ensure a dust cloud on the outside as well. This also helps you ensure that any dust circulating within the city is reasonably "fresh".

I'm getting this mental picture of an exotic city, its narrow, winding alleys covered by awnings and lattices, with beaded strands hanging down every few feet*. The windows are universally covered with iron grills of a curious curlicued design, no single hole more than an inch across**, but still allowing a fair amount of light in. All the inhabitants wear loose, light-colored clothing, and most have veils on to keep the dust from their face***. Every so often, the resounding of bells is heard, as a raider attempts to strike****, or due to a district's warders deciding on a drill. The guards at the gate salute mechanically as you enter*****, and more guards line the few broad boulevards inside. Dust blows continually on those cobble-stoned streets, and most natives avoid them when possible, preferring the cozy alleyways. Finally, the city is overtopped by a vast dome of golden sand, endlessly circulating, which gives it its nickname: City of Abyssal Heaven******.

Honestly, this is great, it sounds like old tales of Araby!

* Obviously, the beads all have sacred item.
** To avoid line of effect from balor explosions and other sources.
*** Because no one wants to breathe dust, even sacred dust.
**** Yeah, I'd assume it's under near-continuous (unorganized) attack.
***** Golems or whatever.
****** I couldn't resist :smallredface:

[Arcanist]

Pretty sure the OP mentioned that many citizens of the city are Neutral, or even Evil.

A quick and simply adjustment... just make sure the inhabitants alignment isn't Chaotic Evil and your crystal :smalltongue:

[Little Brother]

Weirdstones would prevent any type of teleportation entry(Beyond wish), so with a range of six miles, I would place them every 2 miles, buried in the stone(Since LOE isn't needed, by RAW).

Have a huge building, in the center of the city, with a bunch of permanent portals to keep trade with the outside worlds. Probably the best way to do it.

Also, filter masks. Given that, with the number of wizards, this city is probably VERY rich, I could imagine people walking around in armor, given the number of attacks. Colored chain, with an overcoat, or just some badass leather/silk underneath? And a filter mask? That seems like that would look awesome. More of a punk feel, but whatever.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Thinking of Pit Fiends.

And Glabrezu have to grant it to a mortal humanoid. So they need to FIND a humanoid and torture him into wishing the Glabrezu and his Balor buddies into the city.

They don't have to torture or mindrape them; they just have to find a humanoid enemy that the city already has and then convince them to do it.

That said, to answer the question, perhaps one approach would be a mass avoid planar effects (Spell Compendium/Planewalker's Handbook spell built into the very walls and spaces of the city itself. I think there are rules covering this in the (very old) Stronghold Builders Guidebook and perhaps Dungeonscape. Beyond the protections already mentioned, layers of the Abyss itself often have properties that get into the heads/souls of those who dwell there, and a permanent city is going to need protections against those just as much as it needs them against the demons/undead/so on that also live there.

[Slipperychicken]

City of Abyssal Heaven


I'd call the city Hope, for maximum epicness.

[puts on best cowboy accent]

Sure, it's dusty, cramped, and hot out here in Hope. An' sure, Demons are always lookin' for a fight, always lookin' to tear us down. They 'aint never gonna stop coming for us, but we aint gonna turn tail either. There's good folk down here, and we've got a hardy little community, goin' strong down here for about 10 years now. Hope's like a weed; you can smack it, burn it, slice it, you can throw every damn Balor you've got at it, but we'll always keep comin' back. Every time, a little tougher, a little meaner, Hope lives on. And as long as we can keep the Sanctifiers runnin', and the Demons out, Hope will live on.

[SSGoW]

I'd call the city Hope, for maximum epicness.

[puts on best cowboy accent]

Sure, it's dusty, cramped, and hot out here in Hope. An' sure, Demons are always lookin' for a fight, always lookin' to tear us down. They 'aint never gonna stop coming for us, but we aint gonna turn tail either. There's good folk down here, and we've got a hardy little community, goin' strong down here for about 10 years now. Hope's like a weed; you can smack it, burn it, slice it, you can throw every damn Balor you've got at it, but we'll always keep comin' back. Every time, a little tougher, a little meaner, Hope lives on. And as long as we can keep the Sanctifiers runnin', and the Demons out, Hope will live on.

+1

Also could perhaps a wizard/cleric with gate (or a truenamer so it is at will) be charged with creating a stronghold on a specific layer of the abyss. This way said wizard/cleric/truenamer will be the doorway for the celestial beings to attack specific key points on the abyss? I don't know.. But take out one of the demon lords?

[Craft (Cheese)]

More great stuff! Reading this thread gives me lots of great ideas for little details to add to the city, which is always nice to have.

So, more questions time.

- Any good sources for Deathless, since undead minions won't work? They're not exactly the most supported creature type, but I'm willing to bet there's more obscure stuff out there (that is, other than the BoED or the Undying Court stuff) that I don't know about.

- I've decided to go with the Emerald Legions after all, slightly modified to deal with the lack of psionics in the setting. Some useful ways to feed and house them en-masse? Also, what template would be best to stack on so they can have flight in an AMF?

[JeminiZero]

For food, the tippyverse standard is of course, the create food trap.

For housing... if they are in constant AMF, magical stuff like extradimensional space won't work. Also, without AMF, you could add a medium sized animal to their lycan stack, so they can shrink down when they sleep.

For flight, check winged from savage species. Sadly, you can't use grafts since they already have half-golem grafts.

[Demonic_Spoon]

Add zelekhut wings graft before adding half-golem graft?

[lorddrake]

I'd call the city Hope, for maximum epicness.

[puts on best cowboy accent]

Sure, it's dusty, cramped, and hot out here in Hope. An' sure, Demons are always lookin' for a fight, always lookin' to tear us down. They 'aint never gonna stop coming for us, but we aint gonna turn tail either. There's good folk down here, and we've got a hardy little community, goin' strong down here for about 10 years now. Hope's like a weed; you can smack it, burn it, slice it, you can throw every damn Balor you've got at it, but we'll always keep comin' back. Every time, a little tougher, a little meaner, Hope lives on. And as long as we can keep the Sanctifiers runnin', and the Demons out, Hope will live on.

And, of course, this is where the former (horse-riding) ghost rider lives, naturally...

[Telonius]

Does the city have to be actually at war with the Abyss? I can see some demon prince setting it up as some kind of Mad Social Science experiment. Or maybe as a testing ground for Succubi, or something equally ridiculous.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Does the city have to be actually at war with the Abyss? I can see some demon prince setting it up as some kind of Mad Social Science experiment. Or maybe as a testing ground for Succubi, or something equally ridiculous.

These are decent ideas, but yes, it has to be at war. The danger from the constant demon attacks, and the sometimes draconian security measures the city takes to defend against them, are an integral part of the reason I'm using it as a campaign setting. The three PCs all have a different relationship to the city (fresh new immigrant, longtime commoner, and entrenched member of the magocracy) and a major theme of the campaign is exploring how these different characters cope with the conditions in different ways.