PDA

View Full Version : Tidbits of wisdom and advice.



newBlazingAngel
2012-06-12, 12:35 AM
I'm always picking up new knowledge no matter what I do, so I thought it would be a good idea to share things that you've learned. Even if it's just a little idea, if you think it could help anybody, feel free to post it. :smallsmile:

For the DM's:

If you create an encounter that oyu feel is brilliant and is likely to severely injure at least one person, consider whether or not your players would crucify you after said encounter.

For the players:

Use empathy with whatever action your doing, and consider consequences. If your DM is evil, and treats all conversation as in character. He will turn your five minute shouting match between the wizard about whether to kill an npc, in front of the npc into reasons for you to be arrested. If you wouldn't do it to a PC, should you do it to an NPC being controlled by a real person?

Morithias
2012-06-12, 01:35 AM
"The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Kill only those who your are sure are beyond redemption, that is to say...only when you have no other choice, because no one is beyond redemption." - Princess Olivia : Who turned out to be the evil mastermind who unleashed the plague upon the north east. (they didn't take her advice)

Which goes into my second piece of wisdom. "From the mouths of babes comes something good (I think that's how it goes)" any NPC who tries to talk to you, you should listen to. (And then use common sense and sense motive on what they said)

Welknair
2012-06-12, 02:09 AM
Never allow any of your players to play a Dragonwrought Kobold.

Stay away fro the DandDwiki.

Stay out of grapples if you can.

Othesemo
2012-06-12, 02:11 AM
Stay away fro the DandDwiki.


This.

Also, never allow a rule that you don't fully understand.

W3bDragon
2012-06-12, 04:56 AM
To DMs:

Read the entry on Sense Motive and apply it correctly. Sense motive is NOT a lie detector. The results you can expect from sense motive are usually. "You suspect that he's not trustworthy." or "You feel that he's trustworthy."

Also, read the Action section of the skill. It says a sense motive check generally takes at least one minute. So your PCs can't keep asking for a sense motive check after each sentence.

Applying Sense Motive correctly has made roleplaying much more enjoyable for my group, since now we have to focus on the NPC, his behavior and his words rather than on constant skill checks every sentence.

Jay R
2012-06-12, 07:37 AM
Players:

When the DM is making a decision, she is basing it, in part, on information that you don't have. Cut her a little slack, and consider that it might be correct, even if you don't see how.

DM: When you make a decision, you are basing it, in part, on information they don't have. Cut them a little slack, and recognize that they are understandably annoyed, if, without that information, they have no reason to know why it was the right decision.

(I knew of one party who had been petrified, rescued, and returned to normal form. But none of their magic items worked. They argued for some time that the DM was being unfair, since that shouldn't have effected the items. In fact, the PCs who rescued them also stole the items and left perfect but unmagical duplicates.)

Vknight
2012-06-12, 03:15 PM
Players

-Sometimes just be quiet and let the Dm talk
-Pay attention to the game if your not enjoying yourself then you'll damage everyone else's
-A wise man makes a character a fool makes a damage delivery system
-If your fools you may be punished don't get angry at the Dm because of this
-A Dm does not need to explain anything. Why should he spoil the mystery because you upset because Twinleaf lost a arm?


DM's

-Sometimes just be quiet and let them talk
-The players can be fools. And punishing them is ok but don't go to far
-A clever player can make a game all the greater a foolish one can ruin it all the more

navar100
2012-06-12, 03:26 PM
DMs: Don't assume the players are foolish. Don't punish them for defeating your encounter in a way you hadn't thought of. Don't teach your players "a lesson".

Players: What the DM says goes. If he says enough stupid stuff, you can then go too.

Rallicus
2012-06-12, 03:33 PM
Stay away fro the DandDwiki.

Best advice of the thread.


Stay out of grapples if you can.

I don't get this. Why?

Othesemo
2012-06-12, 04:21 PM
I don't get this. Why?

Because nobody can remember the rules.

kyoryu
2012-06-12, 04:31 PM
If the players' choices don't matter, it's not a game.

The game is about the players' story, not yours.

"The players' story" doesn't mean the plot that you put them through - then their choices don't matter, and it's your story anyway.

Any time you put the players against an obstacle, it should be possible for them to fail - and you should understand how that will change the game. "Failure" shouldn't generally mean TPK, though.

It's okay for players to fail hard because of their mistakes. It's not okay for that to happen because of yours. If the first level party decides to take on the ancient red dragon, that's their problem, and let the dice fall as they may. If you drop an ancient red dragon on them, then it's not really fair to wipe them out.

Don't allow situations that are unacceptable. If you don't want the players to kill the BBEG in the first encounter, then *don't include him in the encounter*.

If you put the players into a situation with multiple possible resolutions, don't be tied to one of them.

Blackknife
2012-06-13, 09:00 AM
DMs: Be absolutely clear about rules you are altering and why. Do not forget to inform the players about said changes.

Players: Always ask the DM what rules they are changing and why, because they will invariably forget to tell you.

This comes from me forgetting repeatedly to inform my players about rules I have tweaked.

Oracle_Hunter
2012-06-13, 10:55 AM
DMs:
- Talk to your Players. Find out what they like, what's bothering them, and tell them what's bothering you.
- Never use in-game actions to solve out-of-game problems
- Always try to accommodate a Problem Player before kicking them, but do kick them from your game if you can't.
- Never make the linchpin of your story hinge on Players acting in a specific way. Either plan your story to branch or take the element out.
- Only fudge for the benefit of your Players, and do so rarely, if at all.
- Run the sort of game that your Players will enjoy, and only run games for Players that enjoy the sort of game you like running.

Players: Never make a deal with a Dragon and always geek the mage first :smallcool:

Rallicus
2012-06-13, 11:10 AM
Because nobody can remember the rules.

I personally think this is just a stigma attached to the 3.x grappling rules. They are a bit complex and in depth, sure, but resorting to rarely or never grappling just because the rules are complex is pretty dumb. That's horrible advice to give anyone: "avoid this because it's kind of complicated!" Why not just open you PHB to the grappling page and you'll have no trouble at all...

And I can remember the basic grappling rules, which a DM should be able to do, as they're not very hard to memorize.

Othesemo
2012-06-13, 12:54 PM
I personally think this is just a stigma attached to the 3.x grappling rules. They are a bit complex and in depth, sure, but resorting to rarely or never grappling just because the rules are complex is pretty dumb. That's horrible advice to give anyone: "avoid this because it's kind of complicated!" Why not just open you PHB to the grappling page and you'll have no trouble at all...

And I can remember the basic grappling rules, which a DM should be able to do, as they're not very hard to memorize.

The thing is, it almost never comes up, because most of the time it's a terrible option. That you fight a giant scorpion or something with improved grab, and combat slows to a halt. The rules don't come up often enough to justify memorizing.

Gamer Girl
2012-06-13, 05:17 PM
DM:

1.Remember that it's your job to keep the game moving, and interesting and fun and exciting. If the players should get bogged down or slow down or otherwise stall...it's your job to snap them back into place. This can be as simple as a random encounter or as complex as meeting a powerful npc.

2.Along the same lines as 1, don't stick to the rules or the plot like they are made of stone. If 'only' the red key can open the red door, and the characters don't have it, then don't just stop the game with ''well you guys must go find that red key as it's the only way to open the red door''.....just let the players find another way to open the door(or even, gasp, just have mook seven go through the door and leave it open a couple rounds). Avoid the crappy video game "Beep, you do not have the red key...push any key to retry''.

Players

1.Remember that you need to keep the game moving too. It's after all how everyone has fun. So should you get stuck, don't just sit there! Do something...anything!

Libertad
2012-06-13, 05:22 PM
Just because somebody wants to play a powerful character does not automatically make them a Munchkin out to ruin your fun. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2369.0)

Some RPGs encourage characterization, but no rules system can encourage characters to role-play if they lack the desire to do so.

No gaming is better than bad gaming. No need to torture yourself by spending hours with jerk DMs and players.

Rallicus
2012-06-13, 05:55 PM
The rules don't come up often enough to justify memorizing.

You're generalizing and assuming all DMs run their campaigns the same way.

Grappling happens enough in my campaigns to justify memorizing the rules. Hiding behind the negative stigma attached to grappling is just a flimsy excuse to be lazy.

Othesemo
2012-06-13, 06:02 PM
You're generalizing and assuming all DMs run their campaigns the same way.

Grappling happens enough in my campaigns to justify memorizing the rules. Hiding behind the negative stigma attached to grappling is just a flimsy excuse to be lazy.

Why do you imagine the negative stigma exists? Because so few DMs dislike the rules?

Grappling is needlessly complex. I spend hours each week preparing for my sessions, and I have better things to do than memorizing unnecessary rules to an unfun mode of combat. My game, at least, is better for it.

I chose to be DM. I didn't do this in the hope of doing as little DMing as possible. Why one earth would I want to be lazy about my game? What you condemn as laziness and excuses, I call being pragmatic.

Rallicus
2012-06-13, 06:15 PM
Why do you imagine the negative stigma exists?

Because there is one. Next to class unbalance complaints, grappling is usually considered to be one of the worst features of 3.5. Simply because people think it's "needlessly complex."

I grapple the troll. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyR2L-t87b4#t=2m26s)


Grappling is needlessly complex. I spend hours each week preparing for my sessions, and I have better things to do than memorizing unnecessary rules to an unfun mode of combat. My game, at least, is better for it.

Four steps is "needlessly complex?" Well to each his own, but I consider something that is "needlessly complex" to be a bit more complex than... well, you know, four basic steps.

Consider the amount of spells in 3.5. Consider the amount of time you spend looking spells or asking a player to explain the spell. Those are complex, because there's so many of them.

Also: unfun mode of combat is incredibly subjective. I've had plenty of times when grappling led to a fun encounter, and didn't slow down the campaign one bit.

Othesemo
2012-06-13, 06:36 PM
You concede that what is fun is subjective, and yet you assume that disliking something that you like must be product of laziness? Do you wonder that I am offended?

newBlazingAngel
2012-06-13, 06:51 PM
Okay guys, let's stop this before it gets out of hand.

Othesemo
2012-06-13, 06:52 PM
Okay guys, let's stop this before it gets out of hand.

Whatever you say.

Talyn
2012-06-13, 07:18 PM
Back on topic:

DMs: Make the first session of your campaign awesome. At the end of the first session, you want your players to know what the themese of your campaign will be, and be excited to explore those scenes. Don't be afraid to go big, to have a dramatic setpiece, and/or to let the players be awesome.

Do NOT open your campaign with a 90 minute expository lecture on the backstory. (I've been guilty of this myself.) Give them just enough to get going, and let the rest of the backstory sort itself out later.


Players: Build a character that always has something to contribute, even if it is just a snarky comment. Nothing is more boring than sitting around with nothing to do. This, by the way, is more of a background issue than a char-op issue - playing the silent loner type with no friends and no hobbies will be a lot less fun than the same build with fun quirkiness.

newBlazingAngel
2012-06-13, 09:19 PM
Whatever you say.

If you want to debate whether the grapple rules are worth it, I would suggest starting a thread for it.

Othesemo
2012-06-13, 09:24 PM
If you want to debate whether the grapple rules are worth it, I would suggest starting a thread for it.

I don't. As you say, stop it before it gets out of hand.

newBlazingAngel
2012-06-13, 11:43 PM
Okay then

For players:

Try not to put yourself into a situation where something completely random can kill your character.

Example story: I was in the multiplayer of red dead redemption which is essentially an open world, with a few other players to keep the action up. I was in a gunfight with a guy at the bottom of a ravine, and I was at the top, on my horse. Admittedly, I got what I deserved because I had killed him twice for no reason at all. Me and him are nearly dead, and by some lucky shot he kills my horse, which falls like a ragdoll over the edge, with me on it. Then I turned off my Playstation.

Dm's, don't force players into this situation.

slaydemons
2012-06-13, 11:48 PM
this might be a bit more of a personal issue but thought I would put it in for a tidbit of help

Dm: remember the game is about fun for everyone if your not having fun try to change it so you are.

players: remember its okay to ask the dungeon master for a bit of help with understanding things you don't understand, it is not okay to skip reading your entire class entry because "your dm will explain it for you." or hell the entire book for that matter


Side note. A player did that in my group, he no longer plays with me. even if it was his first time it was my first time dming and all the other players first time as well.

Jay R
2012-06-14, 04:35 PM
I have no idea why I was suddenly reminded of this:

DM: Remember that we are here to have fun, not to debate the rules. Once a debate has gone past the possibly useful stage, make a ruling and get the game back on track.