Exploit This! Incarnate Construct and Class Abilities

[Urpriest]

Curmudgeon pointed out the following in the RAW Q&A thread:


The Incarnate Construct acquired template (Savage Species, pages 120-121) will transform a Construct of humanoid shape into a Humanoid creature. However, there are many drawbacks, including loss of all feats, all skills, all special attacks, and all special qualities including all class abilities. (Note that all acquired templates must be applied after character creation, so loss of these abilities is guaranteed.)


This perked up my interest. An Incarnate Construct doesn't just lose any special abilities or special qualities of their base race, they lose all special abilities and special qualities, period. What makes this especially interesting is that several classes have class abilities that are actively detrimental. If you could selectively skip class abilities from, say, Alienist, it would be a much better class. Now obviously this can't be applied selectively, so we need to find a class that fits it, which is why I'm turning to the playground: what class would benefit most from this treatment? Are there any classes that start out with a detrimental class ability, only to later gain more useful ones? As a start, think about a War Hulk without No Time to Think.

Curmudgeon later states that Incarnate Construct might be modified in the transition to 3.5. While I agree that it should, let's focus on the unmodified, uncorrected version for this thread. I want to see what we can get out of this.

[XmonkTad]

Well, this might not be exactly what you're looking for, but a great thing to apply the template to are "construct familiars" from Dragon Mag 341.
If you apply the template to a Razor Hawk (p. 38) then what you end up with is:

1d8 HP (or class hp)
20 foot land speed (up from base of 10 feet) with 60 ft (average) fly speed
+3 Natural Armor to AC
No attacks worth mentioning
No special qualities/abilities, but this negates familiar traits!
Fort becomes good save (not sure what it was before)
Rolls con, int becomes 3, dex is 17
Is technically a CR 1/4

If you rolled this out as a rogue then it would be pretty good, especially for sneaky stuff.

[nedz]

...
Rolls con, int becomes 3, dex is 17
Is technically a CR 1/4

If you rolled this out as a rogue then it would be pretty good, especially for sneaky stuff.

Except that its skill points would be rubbish.

Going back to the original thread: Applying this template to a Barbarian would grant them the ability to read and write. This is hardly OP, just bizarre.

[killianh]

I wonder if this would apply to the code of conduct on the knight

[Urpriest]

I wonder if this would apply to the code of conduct on the knight

Nice, but I feel like by the same logic you'd lose the entire Knight's Challenge ability too.

[roguemetal]

Might this allow you to enter a prestige class requiring vows, and then ignore the vows but continue in the class?

[Urpriest]

Might this allow you to enter a prestige class requiring vows, and then ignore the vows but continue in the class?

Depends on whether the Vow is a class feature. Unless you mean the Vow Feats? The latter...eh, I think if you could keep taking levels in the PrC when you've lost the feats, you could keep taking levels if you had broken the Vows, so it wouldn't get you anything new.

[XmonkTad]

Going back to the original thread: Applying this template to a Barbarian would grant them the ability to read and write. This is hardly OP, just bizarre.
Anagakoks and totemists would get the same thing.

A Shugenja's "Elemental focus" that they get at level 1 states that they MUST prepare half of their spells with their element, and prohibits their opposite element. Getting rid of that certainly breaks the flavor of the class, and frees up spell slots.

From MoI, Incarnates and Soulborns could lose their big glowy auras, so they could go around smiting things, but not radiate the opposing alignment.

Thats all I could find.

[Kazyan]

A Wu Jen could kick a taboo or two, but lose almost all of the stuff that isn't their spell list in the process, and the Wu Jen spell list is attention-starved, so...bad trade.

[Tim Proctor]

Screw that, to hell with the build I'm going to make a small golem that is a sad robot named Pinocchio and have it his life's goal to become a real boy. Once he's a real boy I plan to have him die so he can be animated into a mummy so he'd be a sad mummy, and change his name to Amumu. My DM will $hit Brikz.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The best use of Incarnate Construct is throwing it on to reset the type pyramid, allowing for more ridiculous template stacking when you're creating Effigies, IMO.

[Venger]

forsaker 1, anybody?

you could reap some pretty kickass benefits without having to do that whole forsaking magic thing

[Zomg Zombies]

Actually, I think you guys got the interpretation of the template wrong: you're debating what classes you could use this template to wipe away the bad parts, but it would wipe ALL parts. Feats gone. Special attacks gone. Skills gone. Spells gone. Special qualities gone. To put it simply you're left with seats and a steering wheel. Just HD, ability scores, BaB and 3 NA if you're medium, 9 NA if large.

And, since you're wiping from construct to flesh, the construct would need the class levels/abilities to begin with, so you're looking at some type of warforged, seeing as I don't know of any other constructs with classes.

The only forged/class combo I could see getting anything is a warforged charger war hulk/dragon disciple. There might be other classes that also give stat boosts, that's all that will come out of the wash: stats and hitdice.

[Snowbluff]

There is something vitality important about this template... kashira...

Hey guys, I think this template RAI and RAW let's you play constructs. The issue is that it has to be humanoid. The shape, not the type. I don't think a robot bird would work.

[Lonely Tylenol]

The first level of Incantatrix bans a school, but it's hard to imagine getting into that class, becoming an Incarnate Construct, and then losing the features of that class level without losing the features of the prerequisite level being a thing.

[ShurikVch]

Skills gone.
Skills are not gone.
Nothing in the RAW suggest it.

Skills: An incarnate construct gains no skill points for becoming a living creature, but if it gains levels, it acquires skill points normally.
If they doesn't gain a skillpoints by transformation, it doesn't mean they lose whichever they already have.
Also, they are supposed keep any racial skill bonuses, because it's not a special quality.

[Urpriest]

snip

You're missing a key point here: it's an acquired template. While you lose abilities the class has already given you, you still get abilities from any levels you take later.

[Taveena]

While it's true that losing out on Knight's Challenge would be a little nasty, the Bulwark of Defense ability is usable without it. I mean, three levels lost in the process is a bit nasty, but if you wanted to play a battlefield control character without having to deal with the code...

[Gemini476]

+2LA Templates -2LA Incarnate Construct Warforged Dragonborn would be the ideal race, right? With the +2LA templates being any that give huge amounts of stat boosts.

The big things you definitely lose are Special Qualities and Special Abilities. I'm fairly certain spellcasting is one of those, so that's out.
Also:
Skills: An incarnate construct gains no skill points for
becoming a living creature, but if it gains levels, it acquires
skill points normally.
Feats: An incarnate construct has no feats when it becomes
a living creature, but if it gains levels, it acquires feats normally.I'm unsure what this is supposed to mean. I guess that it's intended to be so that a construct with Int as a non-ability doesn't get skill points for suddenly having 3d6 Int, so an Incarnate Construct Warforged does not lose any skill points.
As for the feats... Does that mean that the Incarnate Construct loses any feats that it would previously have had? I think so. In that case I suppose that Chicken Infested Commoner 1 might be an OK starting point, since Flaws aren't lost.
You might also be able to get Psychic Reformationed later on so that Chicken Infested gives you Adamantine Body. That would make up for losing feats at level one, at least.

Since all class features are lost, the best class to take would be one with huge amounts of skill points and/or big HD. You could also take Druid if you were headed into Blighter and felt particularly masochistic.



Incidentally, a Dustform Incarnate Construct is +0LA and makes anything into a Humanoid (or Giant). You might get a crippling allergy to Bludgeoning, however, but you also get +4Str, -2Dex, 3d6Con and 3d6Int. You could make a Tibbit into a humanoid, for example, although you would lose all racial features. I'm not sure if there's any actual use for going Dustform Incarnate Construct, but who knows.