Building Fflewddur Fflam?

[Agent 451]

While searching through some boxes I came across my copies of the Chronicles of Prydain. One of the books has a cover (http://longgonebutnotforgotten.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/lloydalexander5.jpg) with the company burning Fflewddur's harp for warmth. That got me thinking, how would one build a bardic character that was similar to Fflewddur? I've never played any bard before, so I am not well versed with them or with any of their variants. So what do you say Playground? How would you build Fflewddur (either with or without an enlarged rideable house-cat)?

[Psyren]

Not familiar with these books. What abilities does he have?

[Callista]

He doesn't have any particularly powerful bardic abilities; nor does he seem particularly high-level. He could actually be a 1st-level bard, using the Fascinate ability to charm the cat. The harp is probably magical, with a bonus to Perform checks and a curse that causes strings to break whenever the owner makes a Bluff check in its presence.

He may also have a Fighter level or two. He can handle himself in battle if he has to, and wields a longsword.

[Telonius]

Bard/Paladin of Freedom, maybe? He's low-ish level, whatever he is.

[Agent 451]

Thanks for the suggestions. When I was looking up Paladin of Freedom I came across the Bardic Sage variant in UA, seems to fit pretty nicely.

[Urpriest]

Isn't he mainly characterized by being incompetent? Or is that just the Disney version?

[Agent 451]

He's pretty incompetent in the Disney version, but they kinda made him into a comedy scapegoat. In the books he strikes me as more having ADD than being incompetent; He never quite making into the bardic order, and exaggerates the truth fairly often.

Edit: He also goes barding because he doesn't like being a king.

[vhfforever]

Just use the best of all suggestions. Paladin of Freedom, using the Harmonious Knight substitution level to gain Inspire Courage and Perform. You don't get fascinate, but you do pick up Bluff.

[GnomeGninjas]

. You don't get fascinate, but you do pick up Bluff.

Why does he want bluff, he is pretty bad at bluffing especialy with his harp breaking whenever he lies.

[Agent 451]

Well, he does have that one golden string that never breaks...

[TuggyNE]

Isn't he mainly characterized by being incompetent? Or is that just the Disney version?

There is a Disney version of Prydain? NOOOOOOOOO


More seriously, he's only really incompetent at barding; he's actually an OK fighter, and is not completely useless in other situations either.

[Agent 451]

You have the right reaction. It was pretty bad, if I recall they meshed ideas from at least 3 of the books together...

[Telonius]

It was called "The Black Cauldron," and was one of the darker Disney movies ever made. IIRC, it's their only PG cartoon movie. They got loads of complaints about it for being too scary for the typical Disney audience - and to be fair, the Horned King and the Cauldronborn were pretty threatening. Scared the pants off me when I saw it as a young kid. It was pretty close to impossible to find a copy of it for years afterwards. They didn't sell it at Disney World in the 90s, if that tells you anything. (Of course they got over it when the time for the 25th Anniversary $pecial Edition rolled around...)

[Callista]

There is a Disney version of Prydain? NOOOOOOOOO


More seriously, he's only really incompetent at barding; he's actually an OK fighter, and is not completely useless in other situations either.Yup. He's not even totally incompetent at being a bard--with his harp, he's a decent performer. He just doesn't have the Bardic Lore ability. Is there a way to swap that out for something else?

[Lateral]

Yup. He's not even totally incompetent at being a bard--with his harp, he's a decent performer. He just doesn't have the Bardic Lore ability. Is there a way to swap that out for something else?

Bardic Knack, but I don't really think he's much of a skillmonkey.

[Draz74]

Well, all of Prydain is low-level; E6-style. And fairly low-magic, too. So ... D&D's not really well set up to model it. Especially when you consider things like how Bards are supposed to be Wise more than Charismatic in Welch tradition, and so forth.

Fflewddur is a pretty good fighter; in one of the books, Gwydion specifically tells him that he sent for him across the land to be part of a special mission particularly because of his skill with a sword. (Although I suspect a bigger part of the reason was that Gwydion trusts Fflewddur more than he trusts most of the other warriors he knows.) So something with some martial skill is warranted. Not Fighter, though; he's more of a skillmonkey than that.

Without his magic harp, he'd be mediocre at both performing and lying, and he'd probably be better at Perform (oratory) than Perform (stringed instruments). With the harp, he's incredible at Performing and terrible at lying. Either way, he doesn't follow the D&D-style bard in performing mid-combat to enhance his allies.

And in the later books, of course, he gets Llyan, who is probably his greatest contribution to combat. Wild Cohort feat, I suppose? I'd imagine he and the other main characters end up being Level 5 or so by the end of the series.

He's pretty decent at Diplomacy, Survival, and a few other skills, but he does generally have the D&D bard's "jack of all trades, master of none" schtick. Hmmm, maybe low-level Bardic Knack is actually a great representation? I wish (and not for the first time) that the Bard had a decent ACF to trade out its spellcasting.


Yup. He's not even totally incompetent at being a bard--with his harp, he's a decent performer. He just doesn't have the Bardic Lore ability. Is there a way to swap that out for something else?

"Loresong" from Dungeonscape might actually be appropriate here.


Not familiar with these books. What abilities does he have?

WUT. :annoyed:

I'm continually saddened by how many fantasy fans have never heard of these books. I consider them the greatest fantasy ever written.

[Callista]

I'm continually saddened by how many fantasy fans have never heard of these books. I consider them the greatest fantasy ever written.Yes. Whoever has not read them must immediately go and do so, or be summarily booted from the Official Membership of the Official Fantasy Fan Club. :smallbiggrin:

[Agent 451]

Well, all of Prydain is low-level; E6-style. And fairly low-magic, too. So ... D&D's not really well set up to model it. Especially when you consider things like how Bards are supposed to be Wise more than Charismatic in Welch tradition, and so forth.

Fflewddur is a pretty good fighter; in one of the books, Gwydion specifically tells him that he sent for him across the land to be part of a special mission particularly because of his skill with a sword. (Although I suspect a bigger part of the reason was that Gwydion trusts Fflewddur more than he trusts most of the other warriors he knows.) So something with some martial skill is warranted. Not Fighter, though; he's more of a skillmonkey than that.

Without his magic harp, he'd be mediocre at both performing and lying, and he'd probably be better at Perform (oratory) than Perform (stringed instruments). With the harp, he's incredible at Performing and terrible at lying. Either way, he doesn't follow the D&D-style bard in performing mid-combat to enhance his allies.

And in the later books, of course, he gets Llyan, who is probably his greatest contribution to combat. Wild Cohort feat, I suppose? I'd imagine he and the other main characters end up being Level 5 or so by the end of the series.

He's pretty decent at Diplomacy, Survival, and a few other skills, but he does generally have the D&D bard's "jack of all trades, master of none" schtick. Hmmm, maybe low-level Bardic Knack is actually a great representation? I wish (and not for the first time) that the Bard had a decent ACF to trade out its spellcasting.

That is an excellent deconstruction of Fflewddur, thanks! I was looking deeper into the subject today, and found this thread. (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/302544-bard-without-spellcasting.html) If you scroll down near the bottom they talk about the Master class from the Dragonlance War of the Lance Sourcebook for 3.5.

Despite the fact that I've owned a copy of this book for 4ish years now, I've never really looked at it until now. The class lets you choose from four subclasses (best term I could think of): Craftsman, Performer, Professional and Sage. Each of these subclasses has different skills associated with them, as well as special abilities.

The Master Performer variant (okay, that's a better term...) gives you a focus on performance skills, as well as a knack at first level (gain others as you gain levels and skills). Once you get Inspiration (Only requires three ranks of Perform), you get something akin to Bardic Music that gives bonuses to allies saving throws, attack rolls and damage rolls.

Not quite a bard, but you could dip into it and use another class to gain a wider variety of skills.

[dextercorvia]

Divine Bard casts based on Wisdom. That may help if you are following Draz's advice.

[Draz74]

Divine Bard casts based on Wisdom. That may help if you are following Draz's advice.

For the actual bards, such as Taliesin, yes. For Fflewddur? No. That's why Fflewddur hasn't managed to become a real Bard -- he's much more Intelligent and Charismatic than Wise.

[Draz74]

Btw (and sorry for the double post), for anyone who's a fan of these books or thinks they deserve more exposure: You should check out this Kickstarter project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1625183244/lloyd-alexander-a-documentary). It's about making a documentary on Lloyd Alexander. Among other rewards, if you pledge at least $20 you can get a copy of the documentary DVD for yourself.

[Crasical]

Yes. Whoever has not read them must immediately go and do so, or be summarily booted from the Official Membership of the Official Fantasy Fan Club. :smallbiggrin:

*Hucks his hardcover copy of the Dresden Files at Callista's head*

URBAN FANTASY 4 LIFE.

[Agent 451]

For the actual bards, such as Taliesin, yes. For Fflewddur? No. That's why Fflewddur hasn't managed to become a real Bard -- he's much more Intelligent and Charismatic than Wise.

Plus, for whatever reason, Fflewddur also has an extreme aversion to most magic, so even Wisdom based casting doesn't really fit.