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killem2
2012-06-13, 07:36 PM
Practiced Combatant
Prerequisite: 3 Level with a class that has a good Base Attack Bonus progression
The chosen class with a good base attack bonus increases by 4.
This benefit can't increase your base attack bonus higher than a total of 20.
For example, a 10th level cleric/level 1Fighter normally has a base attack bonus of +8/+3. With this feat, it becomes +12/+7/+1.
You may only select this feat one time.



I just wish this was a real feat. :smallsigh:

It pains me that something so simple doesn't exist.

I also hope I figured up my own numbers correctly for the feat lol.

Azernak0
2012-06-13, 07:43 PM
An interesting idea but it would make Wizards even better. Go Fighter 1 / Barbarian 1 / Wizard 18 and you end up with 19 BAB by grabbing this feat twice. Definitely can't be allowed to be taken multiple times.

It is amazing with Gish type characters (Hello, Sorcadin) but can be abused like crazy with dipping.

Also, thinking about it more in depth, the feat is actually completely unfair towards guys with full BAB. Most of them (like Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, Rangers) really only have full BAB to give them an 'advantage' over medium BAB guys. With this feat, the whole advantage behind being a full BAB character is kaput. You might as well just lose a couple HP, play a medium BAB class that gets more powerful stuff, and just dip one into a full BAB class.

Cake + Eat it.

killem2
2012-06-13, 07:51 PM
An interesting idea but it would make Wizards even better. Go Fighter 1 / Barbarian 1 / Wizard 18 and you end up with 20 BAB by grabbing this feat twice. Definitely can't be allowed to be taken multiple times.

It is amazing with Gish type characters (Hello, Sorcadin) but can be abused like crazy with dipping.


Ok changed! Requires at least three levels in a full bab class, and can only be taken once.

Jarian
2012-06-13, 08:00 PM
Abusable.

I suggest the following:

Practiced Combatant
Prerequisites: Character level 3rd, must possess a Base Attack Bonus higher than the highest level of spells you are capable of casting
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to-hit with all attack rolls. This bonus cannot exceed the difference between your Base Attack Bonus and Hit Dice.

killem2
2012-06-13, 08:04 PM
That is a pretty clever way of wording it i suppose :) Though I wish it would increase bab still, so # of attacks is possibly effected.

Jarian
2012-06-13, 08:08 PM
Though I wish it would increase bab still, so # of attacks is possibly effected.

That singlehandedly negates the greatest advantage full martial characters have. For the cost of one feat, Clerics/Rogues/Whatever rock out with +19 BAB. Is there a reason to play a Fighter when the Feat Rogue now does everything he does, but better? (I'm not actually advocating playing Rogues and Fighters, but you see what I'm getting at.)

Azernak0
2012-06-13, 08:10 PM
Abusable.

I suggest the following:

Practiced Combatant
Prerequisites: Character level 3rd, must possess a Base Attack Bonus higher than the highest level of spells you are capable of casting
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to-hit with all attack rolls. This bonus cannot exceed the difference between your Base Attack Bonus and Hit Dice.

That might be just as bad. Hell, a Cleric could take it at level 6 and never have to worry about ever hitting the cap. At least with the other one, you have to give up three casting levels for the benefit.

Vladislav
2012-06-13, 08:16 PM
Practiced Combatant
Prerequisite: 3 Level with a class that has a good Base Attack Bonus progressionThe chosen class with a good base attack bonus increases by 4.
This benefit can't increase your base attack bonus higher than a total of 20.
For example, a 10th level cleric/level 1Fighter normally has a base attack bonus of +8/+3. With this feat, it becomes +12/+7/+1.
I like it how the sample character doesn't meet the prereq.


You may only select this feat one timeRedundant.
No feat can ever be selected more than once, unless its text specifically allows otherwise. "you can take this feat only once" is always the default.

Jarian
2012-06-13, 08:18 PM
That might be just as bad. Hell, a Cleric could take it at level 6 and never have to worry about ever hitting the cap. At least with the other one, you have to give up three casting levels for the benefit.

That's true. The same Cleric could just cast Righteous Might Divine Power, gain actual BAB instead of a to-hit bonus, and use his feat for something much more valuable however.

I won't try to pretend the feat is of equal value to all classes, but that's due to a disparity between classes in the first place. Making it grant actual BAB would be a huge step in the wrong direction IMHO.

Azernak0
2012-06-13, 09:08 PM
I like it how the sample character doesn't meet the prereq.

Redundant.
No feat can ever be selected more than once, unless its text specifically allows otherwise. "you can take this feat only once" is always the default.

The feat used to be quite a bit different. It used to only be 1 level in a class and it used to be able to be taken multiple times. Just needs to be cleaned up.


That's true. The same Cleric could just cast Righteous Might Divine Power, gain actual BAB instead of a to-hit bonus, and use his feat for something much more valuable however.

I won't try to pretend the feat is of equal value to all classes, but that's due to a disparity between classes in the first place. Making it grant actual BAB would be a huge step in the wrong direction IMHO.

True enough. However, with your feat, any medium BAB caster gets +4 attack bonus. It is not even so much disparity between classes. A Warblade and Psychic Warrior are on the same tier but giving the Psychic Warrior a free +4 attack may very well put him ahead. (Yes, I know that it says spell but I didn't want to create a specific example.)

The best bet would probably be +4, but needing three levels in a class that grants full BAB. It would mean losing caster levels so flat Wizards would never go for it. However, I think most Gish builds only go put one or two levels into the warrior type class before going a class that adds both BAB and spells. It becomes a "delay spells further or get +4 attack" type of thing.

Still probably too powerful in concept alone. It is basically a feat that makes you as good as a Fighter while still allowing you to go medium BAB caster.

DiBastet
2012-06-13, 11:06 PM
...that's... not a good idea... at all...

As Azernak0 said:


It is basically a feat that makes you as good as a Fighter while still allowing you to go medium BAB caster.

With the core problems of imbalance between mundane and casters, specially the "warrior caste", one should make BAB more relevant, and giving more, different benefits, to make having a bigger BAB being something that at least means something to the character.

All iterative attacks are made at -5 instead of -5, 10, -15? Okay.
Having a bigger BAB bonus than your opponent granting you the benefits of the "improved X" line of CMB feats (trip, grapple, disarm, etc) against this opponent? Okay.
Having a bigger BAB giving you more AoA? Okay.
Hell, having a bigger BAB giving you increased utility for feats? Okay too.

Now, decreasing the value of having full BAB on your class table? well, I repeat myself:

...that's... not a good idea... at all...

One of the really worst ones I've seen around here, sorry.

killem2
2012-06-14, 12:00 PM
Its not a good idea, because optimizers and power gamers will abuse it, fine LET THEM.

To the regular folk, who maybe wanted to make a battle cleric with out dipping into a billion classes might appreciate it :)

Ah well.

:smallsigh::smallsigh:

Yakk
2012-06-14, 12:41 PM
No, the problem is that the Fighter already gives up a whole tonne to get full BAB. And you are giving it away for the price of a feat.