Need character help with very limited choices

[kulosle]

So i'm playing in a game that has a rather low optimization level. There is already a sorcerer, ranged fighter, melee fighter, rogue, and healer. I need to make a character that doesn't step on anyone's toes without playing a bard or a tripper. Because I did those recently and don't like replaying characters. Any ideas?

[VGLordR2]

A Marshal could be useful; their auras are awesome.

You could play a Dragonfire Adept or a Warlock; they can be useful in various roles.

You could try out a Binder; they're just cool.

You could take a shot at Incarnum; the stuff there is very versatile and flavorful.

You could also play an Eidolon. They're cool, underused, and they can do all sorts of stuff.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Is the sorcerer guy playing a blaster?
You could play a different type of caster

[Waker]

My vote is for Binder or Incarnate. Both have some melee potential and a lot of utility/skill type powers.

[smashbro]

Druid or ranger, and focus on nature oriented skills/powers.

[Waker]

Druid would be too hard to fit into a low-op group unless you intentionally weakened it. Grab Deadly Hunter and Druidic Avenger from UA and the Druid would be useful without being laughably overpowered. Or I guess you could just play Spirit Shaman.

[Slipperychicken]

You could play a utility/buff/control caster, or another fighting man. I'd probably use a Wizard, cast buffs, and keep my defenses competent. A Wizard's utility is amazing: they have a number of "win buttons". With Elf Generalist, Uncanny Forethought (feat), Spontaneous Divination ACF, and lots of spells known, you become a versatility master: you will always have the right spell for the occasion, even before you buy a bunch of scrolls. You can be spellbook-independent with the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF from Dragon Magazine (it also dumps the familiar, which one could argue is actually a plus).

Clerics can be good at melee, save-or-lose, summoning, utility, control, and pretty much any role you can imagine, including healer (you basically choose what role you want to play at the beginning of each day).

Druids are melee monsters, with full casting (looks like the same deal as the Cleric in terms of versatility, plus filling all kinds of roles with Wild Shape). You also only have two stats: Wisdom and Constitution. If you don't want to melee you can always stay off the front line and rely on your casting for control.

[Fineous Orlon]

Druid would be too hard to fit into a low-op group unless you intentionally weakened it. Grab Deadly Hunter and Druidic Avenger from UA and the Druid would be useful without being laughably overpowered. Or I guess you could just play Spirit Shaman.

I disagree, just a bit. You could play the druid overpowered, but that is not your only choice, as you have shown with your suggestion. It's easy to hold back and still have a good time, while having that bit of oomph around if the DM surprises you.

One of the things I say in this sort of situation is play what you always wanted to try, but thought it was too silly or weak, or that you did not want to get invested in. Go for the cool combo you could never make work soon enough in a regular game, and explore what it can do. This is the perfect opportunity.

Play a monk, or a monk/druid, or monk to dervish, find out if a Geomancer is fun when there is little pressure...

Theurgery is also great here, as the ultimate team player.

You may actually have a lot of freedom, here...

[Waker]

I disagree, just a bit. You could play the druid overpowered, but that is not your only choice, as you have shown with your suggestion. It's easy to hold back and still have a good time, while having that bit of oomph around if the DM surprises you.
One of the reasons that Druid is a risky class to play in a low-op group is that unlike Wizard which requires a bit of system mastery, Druid can be very powerful out of the box. With an Animal Companion that can match a Fighter, the option to Wildshape and access to spontaneous summons, you can be your own mini-party. Not to mention that playing a Druid requires a lot of book keeping; Character sheet, Animal Companion sheet, Wildshape forms, list of Nature Allies summons.
I'm just saying that playing a Druid would require actively limiting what you can do, hence why I suggested those acfs which would remove many of the troubling aspects.
Your suggestion of playing a Theurge is another good one that I had forgotten about. In High-Op they are looked down on, but in Low-Op Theurges can be quite fun.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dragonfire Adept with Entangling Exhalation. Put Endure Exposure on everyone in your party each day and just spam entangling breaths round after round. You can even use heavy armor and a heavy shield since the nonproficiency penalties won't affect your combat capabilities apart from initiative rolls, and there's no spell failure for the supernatural breath attack.

[Larkas]

You apparently need a skillmonkey, so... Factotum? Myself, I'd just play a Wild Shape Mystic Ranger :smallsmile:

[Blackknife]

Whoever suggested the Marshal knows their stuff, that is my go-to when I don't want to play a Bard and all the other archetypes are covered. I personally think that every group that gets a fifth player should have that fifth player go Marshal or Bard. Dragonfire Adept is good. Monk is good due to all the cool ways you can build it, and Dragon Shaman is another good choice.

Also, others have suggested a class with nature savvy, that is an option. A less ideal but still good option that was listed was building a caster that is of a different type than the others. For example, your group has a blaster sorcerer, build a troubleshooter wizard. Illusionist wizard in your group? Build a support-based sorcerer, those are all kinds of fun. In fact, you can check out The Power Gamer's Guide to Warriors and The Power Gamer's Guide to Wizards.

These will help you in creating clearly defined archetypal characters that are unique and won't step on anyone's toes, while still basically letting you play the role you want to play.

[Wookie-ranger]

Dread Necromancer.
Pretty self sufficient, and if you don't become undead its not very high op from the start. Take tomb tainted and they will like you (more heals for them), your spells are ok, but not over powered, your class features are very focuses and not in any ones way.
You can potentially go up to 20 if you really really want (i would advise against it, but some say its fun).
undead horde vs big bruisers? may be get a group of human skeletons and let them fight as a unit. Using the military formation rules (which are in a book that i completely forgot the name of). or, let them be your mobs; the BBEG has his now you have yours!

If you want to cooperate have your sorcerer take 'lord of utter cold' he will be happy, you will be happy, and your other party members, ...... well, the sorcerer is happy.

[Slipperychicken]

So i'm playing in a game that has a rather low optimization level. There is already a sorcerer, ranged fighter, melee fighter, rogue, and healer. I need to make a character that doesn't step on anyone's toes without playing a bard or a tripper. Because I did those recently and don't like replaying characters. Any ideas?


You apparently need a skillmonkey, so... Factotum?

I know Factotum is better in most ways than a Rogue, but that's just harsh :smalltongue: I was going to suggest it myself, but then felt bad that Factotum is the answer to pretty much everything. It's a nice class, even before ToB fun. You get to be really good at skills, and can do pretty much anything you want. If you don't know what you want to play, go Factotum5/Chamelon10/FactotumX, or go Factotum8 before Chameleon if you love Cunning Surge. You can cast pretty much any spell (Arcane or Divine) up to 6th level, and generally do anything you want, although it requires bookkeeping. As someone once said "Do more than everyone, and better than most". If you're willing to deal with Iaijutsu madness, you can do that to have decent combat potential

Fill whatever role needs filling at the moment, about as well as someone who specialized in it.

[DiBastet]

Half elf druid with a wolf (normal wolf) companion, focusing on archery feats and using the spells to complement the healing, using some BC and some little blasting?

It was my girlfriend's first D&D character, and oh she was just very ok.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You already have: Divine/healer, Rogue/skillmonkey, Sorcerer/blaster?, and two Fighters, one ranged one melee.

Assuming the Sorcerer is going to be dealing damage, you could really use a Batman. You could go Beguiler and focus on skill areas that the Rogue skips, and have plenty of enchant and illusion spells. Between Glitterdust and Haste you'll make everyone's jobs easier, and you'll probably have something for any situation that comes up.

You could make a Cleric and get the Cold domain with the PH2 ACF for it, and throw around plenty of damage and crowd control spells. Be a backup melee and backup heals, maybe even go DMM: Persist for party buffs like Elation (BoED) and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (SpC).

[gorfnab]

An Artificer could supply the group with magic items and buffs.

[Larkas]

On Factotum.

... Man, I must be getting REALLY blind. I read the OP twice to see if I was missing any Rogue! :smalleek:

At least my Wild Shape Mystic Ranger suggestion stands. Those are always fun to play, specially on low-op groups. :smallsmile:

[nedz]

Spirit Shamen could be an interesting choice. You get to do all of the nature and spirit stuff, and its not quite as powerful as a Druid.

[Telonius]

Bard would be the best force multiplier, with Artificer a close second.

I was in a situation like this a few years ago. The solution?

Monk.

You aren't in danger of accidentally overpowering anybody, and probably won't be left as far in the dust as you would in a higher-op campaign. Lots of unique abilities that don't step on anybody's toes. Lots of mobility; you can be flanking buddies with anybody (particularly the Rogue). Usually high wisdom, a few diplomancy skills on the class list, and an alignment requirement; this can result in a character that's basically the glue that holds the party together.

If you need a more optimized version, there's Swordsage (or the Enlightened Fist or Sacred Fist PrCs).

[gorfnab]

How about Truenamer? It can buff and has some utility.

[gorfnab]

Internal Server Error

[gorfnab]

Internal Server Error...again

[Slipperychicken]

How about Truenamer? It can buff and has some utility.

Blah blah blah Truenamer sucks blah.


Internal Server Error

When you edit the post, at the very top, there's an option for deleting it. It can come in handy when you accidentally double/triple post.

[kulosle]

The sorcerer is Annie from League of Legends if anyone knows who that is. It is primarily a damage dealer. I have thought about playing a Batman and just throwing around spells like grease and other slightly helpful spells. But if anything goes really wrong pressing the win button. Mainly because everyone in that group think wizards are only slightly stronger than monks. I have a very weird group. They also think that the vows are over powered. But that's a conversation for another time. Batman wizard sounds good because the entire campaign is a dungeon scrawl and the primary enemy is undead. Battlefield control should be easier in such a small area.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

...the entire campaign is a dungeon scrawl and the primary enemy is undead.

Definitely keep Command Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm) prepared or even get a wand of it, and put max ranks in Kn: Religion so you can easily identify mindless undead in-character. Throw that on the biggest/strongest skeletons and zombies you find, and just have a crowd of pets to do all the fighting for you.

Otherwise, go Cleric of Pelor with the Sun domain, Improved Turning, Extra Turning, Cleric 5/ Morninglord (PGtF) 1/ Radiant Servant (CD) 5/ Morninglord 9. I'd start with the Healing domain and the PH2 ACF for it, and get Glory via Radiant Servant. Get an Ephod of Authority (MIC), Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC), Rod of Defiance (MIC), Scepter of the Netherworld (MIC/LM), and either a Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG) or a Circlet of Persuasion (DMG). Consider using Illumian (RoD) with Hoonvaul, and don't forget Vaul applies to turning checks. Maybe even get Bright Sigil if your class features that give bonuses to light spells will affect it, and take the Swift Concentration skill trick (CS) to keep it active without hindering your other actions.

[kulosle]

Haha that's way too optimized for this campaign. That guy could probably solo this 9 level dungeon. I really don't want to do that. What about something like mystic paladin with sword of the arcane order? I heard that is very strong class although I've never looked into it much myself.

[Larkas]

AFAIK, there is no "Mystic Paladin", just "Mystic Ranger", which practically begs for SotAO too. If you go that route, you'll want to get Magical Training and a solid Spellcraft skill. But I won't insist in this point :smallsmile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You could go Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin 19 for your build, take the Divine Counterspell ACF in CM for Paladin, and pick up the feat Divine Defiance from FCII. That allows you to spend a turn attempt to counterspell as an immediate action, which you use Divine Counterspell for. With the Inquisition domain and a few Kn: Arcana ranks your dispel check for Divine Counterspell will be equal to your character level +3. Be sure to get Knowledge Devotion (CC) instead of the Knowledge domain and the Collector of Stories skill trick (CS), put one rank in every monster-related Knowledge skill and keep max ranks in Kn: Religion.

Sword of the Arcane Order is good, it gets even better with Battle Blessing (CC) so all of those get Quickened for free. Magical Training (PGtF) gives you a spellbook which you've already put spells into, so you should be able to add more to it just like a Wizard does (subject to DM interpretation). Also note that Magical Training allows you to use Eternal Wands (MIC) regardless of what spells they contain. Plus Command Undead isn't an evil spell, so using it to take control of an undead opponent for the purpose of getting it destroyed by its creators and former allies shouldn't violate the paladin code.

Get a few Lesser Rods of Extend and use them with Wraithstrike via SotAO. I'd also get the Charging Smite ACF in PH2 instead of the Paladin mount, along with Leap Attack and maybe even Divine Might, and don't forget to cast Rhino's Rush if your swift action is available. You could possibly even use a Wand of Wraithstrike in a Wand Chamber, and be able to use it due to Magical Training. Another option would be to DMM: Persist Wraithstrike, since it's prepared and cast as a paladin spell and thus a divine version, but that may be a bit too high-op for you.

[Slipperychicken]

Batman wizard sounds good because the entire campaign is a dungeon scrawl and the primary enemy is undead. Battlefield control should be easier in such a small area.

Yeah, I always hate it when the DM's maps look like chicken scratch :smalltongue:

But wait..

the primary enemy is undead

Buy a Shirt of Wraith Stalking (6k, MIC 216). Make sure it's an obnoxious white T-shirt which reads "Vampires Suck." Undead will have a very hard time finding you, no less fighting you. Just remember to re-activate it every half hour..

[killem2]

I vote for focused specialist transmuter buffer! :D
Or same thing but necro mancer and go hard core into the ability drains.