Greenbound Summonin vs Animal Type.

[Elric VIII]

I often see it written that Greenbound Summoning precludes all of the good animal-only buffs on the Druid list.

Aside from Animal Growth, what spells that affect animals (but not plants) would a Druid use?

[Invader]

Magic fang, venomfire, reduce animal there;s a few other decent ones out there as well.

[Invader]

Align fang, animalistic power, natures favor, bite of the werewolf/wereboar/weretiger, Girallons blessing, thornskin, claws of the savage, superior magic fang, greater magic fang, unholy beast are a few others.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Align fang, animalistic power, natures favor, bite of the werewolf/wereboar/weretiger, Girallons blessing, thornskin, claws of the savage, superior magic fang, greater magic fang, unholy beast are a few others.

Oddly enough, most of these specify 'living creature', not 'creature of the animal type'. Plants are living, and summoned Greenbound creatures are creatures with the Plant type, therefore they are applicable targets.

Animalistic Power, Girallon's Blessing, Venomfire and Claws of the Savage don't even specify living (just creature touched), and Bite of the Were(creature) and Thornskin mentions target: You, so no restrictions there, either.

Nature's favour and Unholy Beast are the only spells you listed that specifically target animals.

[Invader]

Oddly enough, most of these specify 'living creature', not 'creature of the animal type'. Plants are living, and summoned Greenbound creatures are creatures with the Plant type, therefore they are applicable targets.

Animalistic Power, Girallon's Blessing, Venomfire and Claws of the Savage don't even specify living (just creature touched), and Bite of the Were(creature) and Thornskin mentions target: You, so no restrictions there, either.

Nature's favour and Unholy Beast are the only spells you listed that specifically target animals.

I was just throwing out all the buffs I know people use for their summons. I know some people claim you can still use buffs anyway because Greenbound Summoning turns their type in Plant(augmented animal) not just Plant.

Regardless, even if you couldn't use buffs of any kind it's still a ridiculous feat and well worth it lol.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I was just throwing out all the buffs I know people use for their summons. I know some people claim you can still use buffs anyway because Greenbound Summoning turns their type in Plant(augmented animal) not just Plant.

Regardless, even if you couldn't use buffs of any kind it's still a ridiculous feat and well worth it lol.

True.

In all honesty, I hadn't even realised that some buffs actually specified animal. You, good sir, have taught me something today.

[Elric VIII]

Alright, it doesn't seem like I would be missing out on too much with my summons as plants. That's good to know. I will be starting a thread shortly about making the benefits of Greenbound Summoning based on character level in order to limity the power of the feat.

Thanks for the help.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright, it doesn't seem like I would be missing out on too much with my summons as plants. That's good to know. I will be starting a thread shortly about making the benefits of Greenbound Summoning based on character level in order to limity the power of the feat.

Thanks for the help.

Not a problem, friend.

[Invader]

I will point out that it's very front loaded. At low levels there's very little you'll be fighting that can handle a greenbound animal but at higher levels it does even out quite a bit and they lose a lot of their usefulness.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Don't forget about Enrage Animal (SpC). If Imbued Summoning (PH2) wasn't limited to touch-range spells, then it could be worth using that plus Animal Growth over summoning Greenbound creatures. As it is, you're probably just better off Enraging your animal companion with the Swift Concentration skill trick.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Quick question, does greenbound summoning affects all your summons or is it a more on-off thing?

[Fable Wright]

Regardless, even if you couldn't use buffs of any kind it's still a ridiculous feat and well worth it lol.

It was actually designed as a +2 Metamagic feat, but that fell out sometime in the process...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Quick question, does greenbound summoning affects all your summons or is it a more on-off thing?

You can choose whether or not to use it every time you cast a summon spell.

[Elric VIII]

I will point out that it's very front loaded. At low levels there's very little you'll be fighting that can handle a greenbound animal but at higher levels it does even out quite a bit and they lose a lot of their usefulness.

That's exactly my thought. I don't have anything concrete yet, but I'm going to do something like start with just plant type and d8 HD. Then, +2 to an ability modifier every 3 levels (staggered by which ability), and fill in the gaps with +1 natural armor, and have the SLAs come at later levels, such that they are not better casters than everyone else.

What's going to be especially cool is that this if for a build that will have Green Whisperer and Inspire Courage, and I will be able to affect plants with it.

[sonofzeal]

All of these have "Animal" in the effect line somewhere:

Animal Growth
Animal Messenger
Animal Trance
Awaken (XP)
Mass Awaken (XP)
Calm Animals
Charm Animal
Commune with Earth
Commune with Nature
Dominate Animal
Echo Skull
Enrage Animal
Enrage Animals
Favor of Yathaghera
Heal Animal Companion
Hold Animal
Leap Into Animal
Nature's Avatar
Nature's Favor
Reduce Animal
Share Husk
Train Animal
Traveler's Mount
Unholy Beast
Vengeful Mount

[Invader]

And remember its just plain animals so no greenbound unicorns or hippigryphs running around.

[Invader]

That's exactly my thought. I don't have anything concrete yet, but I'm going to do something like start with just plant type and d8 HD. Then, +2 to an ability modifier every 3 levels (staggered by which ability), and fill in the gaps with +1 natural armor, and have the SLAs come at later levels, such that they are not better casters than everyone else.

What's going to be especially cool is that this if for a build that will have Green Whisperer and Inspire Courage, and I will be able to affect plants with it.

Also something that probably gets over looked quite a bit is the animals aren't going to use their spells unless you cast speak with animal or have some other way of communicating active. It's not a big deterrent but it is an extra spell tax to get that extra bit of usefulness out of the spell.

[Invader]

That's exactly my thought. I don't have anything concrete yet, but I'm going to do something like start with just plant type and d8 HD. Then, +2 to an ability modifier every 3 levels (staggered by which ability), and fill in the gaps with +1 natural armor, and have the SLAs come at later levels, such that they are not better casters than everyone else.

What's going to be especially cool is that this if for a build that will have Green Whisperer and Inspire Courage, and I will be able to affect plants with it.


All of these have "Animal" in the effect line somewhere:

Animal Growth
Animal Messenger
Animal Trance
Awaken (XP)
Mass Awaken (XP)
Calm Animals
Charm Animal
Commune with Earth
Commune with Nature
Dominate Animal
Echo Skull
Enrage Animal
Enrage Animals
Favor of Yathaghera
Heal Animal Companion
Hold Animal
Leap Into Animal
Nature's Avatar
Nature's Favor
Reduce Animal
Share Husk
Train Animal
Traveler's Mount
Unholy Beast
Vengeful Mount

A lot of these spells won't work with SNA either.

[Elric VIII]

Okay, looking up those spells, it seems that the only ones of consequence are Animal Growth, Enrage Animal, Nature's Avatar, and Nature's Favor. Those are good, but definately not mandatory. Thanks.

[Draz74]

You can choose whether or not to use it every time you cast a summon spell.

This would make the feat a no-brainer even at higher levels, but it is incorrect. The feat automatically applies whenever you cast a Summon Nature's Ally spell, and never applies to any other [summoning] spell.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This would make the feat a no-brainer even at higher levels, but it is incorrect. The feat automatically applies whenever you cast a Summon Nature's Ally spell, and never applies to any other [summoning] spell.

You're right, I was sure it said "you may" somewhere in there, which would have made it optional.

[Elric VIII]

One more little thing: What exactly does the "augmented X" subtype actually do for a creature in terms of spell effects, special qualities, and reference to type?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

One more little thing: What exactly does the "augmented X" subtype actually do for a creature in terms of spell effects, special qualities, and reference to type?

The Augmented Subtype (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#augmentedSubtype) typically means you use the traits of its current type, and the features of the type that appears in the augmented tag. In the case of Greenbound Animals, you would probably use the Animal Features (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#animalType) (HD, BAB, base saves, skill points) with the Plant Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#plantType) (extraordinary senses, immunities, proficiencies, environment/survivability). Note in the Greenbound template, it states that its type changes to plant, but you do not recalculate BAB, saves, or skill points. Its HD changes to the d8 of the plant type, but for an animal that changes nothing.